Its refreshing to see kampfy booted out and Zig Forums get back to its roots again...

Your resources are your sperm cells, your genes.

Not your monopoly fiat money that shlomo pulled out of his nose to let you dance to the tune of reposession over failed loan paybacks.

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Someone sure is
INVOLUNTARILY

Nobody said anything about banning. However there is a such a thing as a real mgtow who lives his life as per the broadly prevalent mgtow philosophy and fakes who just claim to be one. This is the difference between a true believer/adherent and a heretic

Because you are a man. It is our burden to take responsibility for the weaker gender.

Welcome back faggots. Let us duel once more as we did in days of old.

Which is her biological imperative, and is no more reprehensible than our desire for a physiologically fit and attractive specimen. Are you angry that women evolved to prioritize selecting her mates this way? This is akin to being mad that rain is wet.

If you are a competent man with reasonable strength and economic success she will have little reason to abandon you, though it is admittedly always possible. But this has always been true, and there are no guarantees in life. Your relationships with women can and may fail. You can and may die in a car accident every time you drive somewhere. The solution is not to abandon being a motorist, but to drive as safely and carefully as you can. Every game worth playing comes with risk, and the best you can do is mitigate that risk, but you will never be able to assure success. That doesn't mean it's not worth taking the chance.

We do have to rebuild society and change many things, but there is no reason to abandon building a family in the meantime. Having children and building a successful family is the single most important thing you can do in this life, both for yourself, and for your people. If you give that up you have been demoralized, and how do you expect to save your civilization, when you can't even save yourself?

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The monopoly fiat money is why a woman wants a man. This is reality. Women can easily get pregnant by any number of men wanting to fuck her. This is not hard for a woman

Why?

Yeah so you're saying I'm not apart of this glorious movement just because you aren't as dedicated as I am.
KILL YOURSELF MTGOW FAKER
DEATH TO WOMEN

Cuz whites are already dying out at an extremely fast rate, having kids helps stop that. Also I really want to and hope I get married when I'm proper age because I think a life without kids is lonely and not fulfilling, and recommend it to others for that reason if nothing else too.

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We are Men. Men don't cry and complain, sometimes we do things we don't like to do but we do them anyway. But it don't mean "dude do everything for your woman lmao". If you are able to form a woman than she already knows are the stronger one and you lead the two of you.

Be a real man and take a woman. Stand up with self respect and a no nonsense attitude, real women will stand at your side if you approach them.

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So you're fighting a symptom and not the illness.

Man I really hope they keep all the stickies to a minimum as well. They were just an eye sore and very non-user intuitive when you just wanted to see the top threads and comments.

I'm not angry about this. I am just stating that reality and using it to question the institution of marriage

I'm not worried about a woman abandoning me. I question the need to get in long term relationship of any sort with a woman in the first place

My question is why play the game at all? What is in it for men?

With modern technologies we are at a point where we can sustain civilization without families

Dude you aren't MGTOW…you are just straight up gay.

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If you want to stop your race from dying out and committed to the cause there are ways of doing that without getting married. Acquire money and then use surrogate mothers to father several children of your race and raise them

Got any facts to back up your 3 statements, OP? The bit about women having no principles doesn't make sense.

I'm not crying about anything. Questioning something isn't the same as crying. I'm question why a man should take on the burden in the first place and you haven't answered me

Babies.

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The illness is the love of wealth. Women love wealth. Men love to acquire wealth to impress women. Break this chain and you are free of that particular bondage

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I have answered your question. We take the burden because it is in our Nature. We are the stronger gender and with that we have to take the burden. If women are left to their own they fuck everything up; themselves, people surrounding them and society (see the current year). You may not like it but we have to take on the burden of leading our women.

Whatever you do, never let yourself believe that women are equal to men. Your agency, power, and responsibility will always be greater. The ideal human society is one where women obey and serve their husbands, and where husbands love and care for their wives as they do themselves.

Ooohhh burn. Thankfully I'm not a faggot like you.

Worst case scenario I guess, but I hope to not have to do that… I don't live in America. Feminist laws aren't as bad in my non-Anglo culture. I like the simple, traditional life… not because Zig Forums told me to be like that, because I've been like that forever, I hate the bullshit of the modern world and its rules, I prefer the natural way.
Not even /r9k/ is against that explicitly, both of us agree about the true nature of roasties, but a lot of them think that especially with feminist shit its not worth it to marry, and instead men should focus on higher pursuits… thats good and all, I just think lonely and strange life is not for me, it seems depressing.

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There have been newfags making fun of virginity, which was interesting.
MGTOW is cancer, however, and you do not need to be a feminist or desire to marry a woman to say that. Try to introspect, with an open-mind, or see how males are today, as well as women.

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Alright. First off, marriage is a necessary institution for the establishment of the family, and the family is the very basis of civilization. The family is what causes men to want to provide for more than themselves, build up communities, build up cities, nations, and eventually the vast civilizations we have now. If you remove that motivation men quickly fall back into hedonistic, self serving pleasure, which causes societal collapse. There have been zero great civilizations without monogamous families serving as their bedrock.

Now, as to your next question, let me ask you this; why is it that so few great men have existed without wives? So few that, in fact, you could call it statistical happenstance that it occurred at all. Virtually every great leader and contributor to our societies development has had a wife and a family. When you have a family you are not drained as man, you are empowered, which is clearly reflected throughout our entire history.

And finally, in what way do you think technology has eliminated the need for a family structure? If anything, once we remove the negative influences in our societies, technology should allow family life to flourish more powerfully than it ever has before, simply due to men gaining more time to spend with their families as the hours needed for their labor decrease with automation.

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Meant to reply to

Also checked.

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currently loling at googles image search though

"caucasian man with baby -asian -black -mixed -gay -homosexual -degenerate"
And it's still giving me unfitting results.

I will agree to disagree then. Not everything that is in our nature is necessarily beneficial to us as individuals. Man is in a unique position in the evolutionary ladder that he is able to use his intelligence to filter out those parts of our nature that are not beneficial to men and I think that taking on the burden of a woman and a family is one of those parts of nature that is no longer a burden that is obligatory and can thus be, using our discretion abandoned

Citations needed
Idem. Even if you were right and this held true for all women, why should she settle for the lesser alternative?
I assume you don't want some indebted old hag with a raisin face, and roast beef between her legs. So why should she put up with a lesser man?
Gynocentric societies have been extremely rare. For most of history civilizations have been led by men.

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pertain to evolution since no babies no genes.

If you like living with a women long term and taking care her then that is a reasonable explanation. I would just point out that there are many who wouldn't like to go that far and are just content with the sexual pleasure a woman provides and this confine relationships with women to that purpose. Thus for such men there is nothing wrong with being mgtow

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I will not disagree that this has been our history so far. However with modern technology we are at this point in our history where this no longer needs to be true.
Selection of ova plus using surrogate mothers to create your progeny offers men a way out of this problem called traditional families

I mean that with technology there is no need for traditional family structure as I just state above

Irrespective of MGTOW, incel demonization has got to be one of the stupidest media tactics yet (and that's quite a feat).
- There are more losers than winners in the mating game. The vast majority of the sex is being had by a small minority of the population.
- The sexual revolution has created entire generations who feel unrealistically entitled to automatic sexual success.
- The ubiquitous barrage of sexual imagery in modern environments increases the desire and frustration of not only those who never get laid, but even in some who do (they feel they're "not getting enough" or only getting "bad unfulfilling sex").
The end result is the greater majority of people out there are more likely to silently empathize with the predicament of "incels", rather that join in on the media-pushed bashing of said incels.

This is commonly observable in society. Otherwise why do we observe women dumping men as soon as they lose their jobs?

Maybe she shouldn't. All I am saying is that a woman and here quest to find a good provider is HER problem not mine. I just want to stay out of the whole thing.

I disagree. Civilization up to this point has been gynocentric. The institution of family is based on gynocentrism

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There was another big point I forgot to mention, that I don't want my kids to suffer if I go for surrogate. I mean imagine being born artificially from an egg taken from a random woman who you do or do not know (doesnt matter, she has no interest in you, she donated for money), in the womb of another woman who has no interest besides money, and raised by a dad who, should he die, would leave you orphaned… I don't want to inflict something like that on my kids. Otherwise I honestly would indeed probably go for surrogate, albeit with some reluctance, even if it isn't natural because at least you don't have to suffer under a possible wretched wife.
Bro if you're happy with prostitutes then to each their own I guess, but even I never marry I really hope I dont allow temptation to lead me into fucking some whore. Im one of those guys that think maintaining sexual purity is important.

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In this instance the demonization was necessary because he was posting stupid things such as wanting to kill all women which is not part of mgtow.

This is a hedonistic, self serving argument. Of course there's something wrong with it. You are choosing a life of fleeting pleasure and self gratification over contributing to your society and your people. The worst part to me about MGTOW is this self serving attitude, this resignation and abandonment of their people and their duty. If they made their case and then championed a serious legal and political effort to change the court systems, I could respect them, but this is not the path they have chosen. I am interested in fighting to preserve my people and save Western civilization, and all MGTOW seem interested in doing is creating justifications for their abandonment of the same.

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I understand all of these criticisms you have about creating and raising children through surrogate motherhood. All I am saying is that civilization can still be sustained if there are enough men committed to the production and sustenance of babies of your race. Families are just a means to an end. In the modern world we now have better options. You personally might not think those options are good but I think its doable.

What does mgtow accomplish , if your country gets filled with a bunch of rapeugees the women are going to sleep allah snackbar instead.

The death of ones own bloodline, usually.

I need to take a break. I will be back with replies to pending arguments

White on White marriage is kind of important for securing the existence of our race and a future for white children.

Still not good enough to compete with the natural methods. Surrogacy remains fraught with messy custody issues if the surrogate mother changes her mind, and we're still very far from reliably incubating healthy human embryos in cheap nutrient baths.

So your proposed solution is to father children through surrogate mothers and have them solely raised by single fathers? And who will be the caretakers of these children? If the man is meaningfully engaged in any way with his economic responsibilities, he will not have the time to care for this child by himself effectively. So what is your proposed solution to this?
Hiring other people to take care of your own children?

You would deprive children of the comfort and stability of a two parent household, and having children cared for by their own mothers? I do not see how you can believe your proposal has any significant merits to it whatsoever. Please explain why you think this would be better, for the children specifically.

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Miggity shiggity cannot solve the problem of extinction and instead embraces it.
Disgustingly decadent ideology.

If I had to have children by surrogate, I guess my mom would take care of them while I'm out working (but then I'd feel bad doing that to her because she's already had to raise me and multiple siblings, I want her to relax when she's older because she deserves it). But then suppose my surrogate child had another child by surrogate, that child would be unable to have a maternal figure in his life to care for him and give him love, which seems a very harsh way to have to grow up.

Mgtow is spearheaded by the mongrel amerimutt mudslime Roosh V. Do you expect nationalism and race loyalty out of THAT?

We only need to relegate women to the status of property, first of the father then of the husband, like in pre-feminist society.
Respecting woman, viewing them as persons with agency, or caring for their thoughts and feelings is the maximum faggotry a man can incur. Women are basically jews with tits and asses that we have to reproduce with.

Sounds like what the fags do.

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I have both MGTOW and NatSoc leanings.
First of all, the reason many people are MGTOW to begin with is because women will not sleep with them - not because of the true state of the system in regards to female rights and anti-male leanings. It’s effectively an ideological justification for being an incel and for this reason I’ve distanced myself from your movement.
I live in Asia because my father runs the Chinese branch of a multinational shipping company who’s biggest clients are the USAF and tech giants. Why am I telling you this? For three reasons that I will now outline:
I have not always been wealthy and neither has my family - I developed NatSoc leanings well before this occurred and experiencing it firsthand has taught me that industry really ought to be regulated and that NatSoc economic principles are truly better for the volk than globalist capitalism
It has shown me the dark side of female empowerment firsthand, and shown me that women really do want beta providers so they can continue to live life on easy mode.
These people are some of the most depressing fucks I’ve encountered, sad, unhealthy white men that think living in a bootleg version of blade runner is the height of existence. Self-proclaimed WNs, “skinheads”, alt-righters, and “kekistanis” that think that racemixing is a good way to dodge the abysmal court system stateside(LOL @ when their wives all want US visas and leave them when they realize they aren’t a good vehicle for that goal)

My life experience and literature consumption has taught me that MGTOW is a dead end. It won’t contribute to the volk and in its present state largely exists so that incels and inexperienced men can ideologically justify their shortcomings and own weakness that allows them to fall prey to predatory thots. The only way to fix the problems with women are to fix the problems with society at large, to skew what I refer to as the “mind control algorithm”(noosphere conditioning) in your favor.

You need to have children, and in the present climate gettin married poses a liability to the man. MGTOW wants to change the mans spirit rather than change the society he lives in. Men are natural alpha males and a decadent society allows for beta males and other genetic refuse to permeate and poison the mind.

No, but I understand that it is appealing to many nationalistic minded men who have been unjustly hurt and damaged (or seen it happen to other men) by a (((legal system))) that is designed to destroy them. Unfortunately, they believe this to be the fault of the women who are merely pawns in the political and social remapping of Western civilization, and so thinking withdraw entirely from building a family and having children, which is exactly what the intended consequence is by the architects of this system.

Indeed, this is the most crippling blow that can be struck against our efforts, as every man who chooses not to have a family has no interest not only in having children, but also loses interest in fighting back against the tides of corruption that are swallowing our civilization whole and instead falls into lassitude & self serving hedonism. As such we must do everything in our power to push back this ideology by showing it to be the dead end and demoralizing lie that it is.

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Same reason men abandon women past their prime.
It takes perseverance to maintain relationship in face of hardships. Which is why so many divorces follow unemployment, the loss of a child or other tragedies. Women - being overall more emotional - are more likely to initiate a divorce than men.
In the past, men either owned farms, or held life-long jobs. And couples could expect to lose at least one child. With the decline of child mortality and self-employment, these have become breaking points that modern couples simply haven't learned to cope with. Even outside legal and social changes which make divorce safer and easier.
Won't disagree here.
The shift towards gynocentric (or rather, balanced) families has been something of the past few decades, not centuries or millennia. Before - and with few exceptions - women's sole role was to stay at home and take care of her children. They were almost universally barred from higher education and wage labor. Only on occasion were women educated, and then again mainly in the context of upper class families, and only if those families approved. Women weren't entitled to divorce, inheritance, and in some cases were legally treated as nothing but property.
The very few exceptions to these have been female monarchs, nurses (which became an acceptable female profession during the middle ages), educated wives of aristocrats, and priestesses of certain non-Abrahamic religions.
The shift occurred as women entered the workforce, and families shifted from single to dual-income households. Mostly from early 19th century onward. This reached a tipping point in the 1980s, which is around the time when feminist inspired legislation enter in force. (Abortion, divorce law, marital rape, non-discrimination, etc.)

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Yes. Which is why a two parent household is ideal, and is the basis for civilization, user. Children are the lifeblood of your people and we should strive for that ideal so that they have the best chance they can to flourish. We will in no way reach that ideal in perhaps even the majority of cases, but by striving for it we provide the best circumstances we possibly can for the greatest amount of people. Despite all the failed marriages and terrible stories out there, don't forget that for every failure, there's a success, and that those successes are just as beautiful and inspiring as the failures are tragic and terrible.

Western civilization prospered when we allowed women to select their own mates, thereby creating competition amongst males to distinguish themselves. And during those centuries we accomplished more than in the thousands of years of civilization before it, since we were in effect socially enforcing evolutionary pressure on our men. We simply need to strip womens political power and input, and remove them from the workplace. Returning to an outmoded method of sexual selection will only result in the degradation of our species, as men will simply trade wives rather than seek to stand out with accomplishment and strength in order to secure a mate.

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MGTOW is gay and stupid and just another pointless branch on the tree of division that wants to see us bifurcated from our roots. But getting rid of the disgusting turkroach kampfy truly was about damn time, so very nice to hear.

Probably the biggest issue that I see is that even you think that sex is more of a priority than marriage, just like modern women.
If you hadn't been brainwashed like everyone else since the 60's to think that sex was the ultimate meaning of life you would have said:
"the reason many people are MGTOW to begin with is because women will not consider marrying them"

A two parent household is not ideal - a four parent household is.
Two parents, two grandparents, and a reasonable amount of children

The biggest trick they ever played was convincing people to adopt the nuclear family rather than the extended family. This was when the decline truly set in.

You say this as though you're content to stay on parity with the r-selective tendencies of women. That's not a good look. If that's the approach you're going with then don't come complaing to us with your women problems when gaming the pussy economy by investing long on thots doesn't work out for you. Because it won't.

Yes the system is rigged in favor of women and destroys the natural incentive of marriage. However, mgtow acts as a pressure release that demotivates men from taking control of the system and setting it straight, which is the kind of thing we're into around here if you hadn't noticed.

I don’t think that, but I recognize that modern society thinks that. Incels think that as well, and many of them are not in honesty looking for marriage from the perspective of starting a family but from the perspective that getting a wife would be a good way to get laid.

Marriage is not the end goal, children and grandchildren are. I only want to marry because I want children and to permeate my genes.

Unfortunately when a woman divorces a man, she takes the kids and there's a chance that the kids can get a pozzed upbringing afterwards. Marriage laws need reform.

The entirety of society needs reform.

Marriage in no longer a Holy Union between a man and a woman, it is now a Financial liability (((Tax for Israel))).
Riddled with Interracial Propaganda on TV Shills being Paid to shill.

MGTOW, I want a traditional wife, the Government has gone to far by going into abortion and Marriage.

Look, they are doing the same thing with the internet, Look!
The Internet was just FINE, but laws restrictions taxes and regulations.
MGTOW Never had a problem with most Woman.

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It's a good idea to marry a woman because a marriage is the only context in which a child can be properly raised. White societies cannot afford to have this ridiculous gender war. All the problem you listed regarding females are correct, but its also what makes them manageable; they will follow a man they respect into the gates of hell. We men need to stand for something and become zealous pursuers of our goals. Women flock to that shit. From what I've personally seen, I'm unironically suggesting Christian fundamentalism both for its aggressive rejection of progressive society, and its proven model of morality. Also, God is real and Jesus died for your sins. It's real (and you have to actually believe in it for it to transform you). Anyways, if we don't do this, women will continue to attack their host society through progressivism/feminism, and others will defect to competing societies, namely Islam.

If you don't marry you don't get to procreate.

If you procreate outside of marriage your descendants won't inherit and build over your knowledge and possesions.

If they do they will most likely missuse it or ignore it as they were never propperly guided togheter by responsible parents.

Marriage creates the family unit, and that creates civilization, that's why you should marry, sure women can be mean, but having unpleasant company and trying to make the best of it as a family is better than to be a literal faggot running away to jerk off your life away just because girls can be mean.

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good trips

Degenerate. All mgtow should hang.

Because it needs to be someone's responsibility. If you say you want an androcentric society and if you say men are superior beings, then you should want to form her just like you would take control of any other part of your life.

well at least he did something right

Wrong. Banning discussion on subjects means they cannot be engaged in open debate and shown to be flawed. Instead those who practice and believe in them assume themselves to be unfairly persecuted and it reinforces their beliefs, and if anything can lead to more people embracing it, since they too begin to believe that the only reason it would be suppressed is because it's true. How do you think imageboards and this entire nationalist movement got to where it is now?

Suppression doesn't work, it has failed spectacularly over and over again throughout history. If you want to defeat an ideology, you do so publicly and in front of the people so they can see why it's wrong. And if you can't do that, maybe the ideology you're opposing has something going for it after all.

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Haha fuck you kike. Mgtow is a kike psyop deserving no respect whatsoever. You have a duty to your people, your society, and your women. Do you think society is just going to fix itself? Get off your ass.

No you don't deserve debate. We have more important shit to do.

Marriage laws need reform so that men don't get fucked over, especially in divorce courts. On top of reforming marriage, all the damage caused by 3rd wave feminism needs to be undone.

the laws introduced all over the world to tax marriage and destroy Christianity are a Kike psyop.

Marriage and reproduction should be 100% a Family Matter, the governments around the world are responsible for taxing birth rates, The Governments are responsible for creating Feminism and Chovanism.

Just like the internet, They create a Problem and we have to pay to fix it.

Look, I don't like these cunts too, and I admit it, I have a problem with women. But your MGTOW philosophy is fundamentally flawed, because it's at it's core just a lash-out response to dumb women. We are capable of "going our own way", but what good is it, if we don't leave someone behind to inherit our legacy? Why should we then make an effort to be paragons, to go out of our way to prove something to the world? MGTOW is saying, don't raise a family, but still live like you would do anyway, keeping you constrained to societal notions of order and discipline, for no reason at all.

Makes you good workers, sure. But if you were to truly say "FUCK WOMEN" and going your own way, you should be living your life out to the max, do everything _legally allowed_ that you want to do, take high risks, live everyday with the expectation that you die tomorrow, expect to live up to 30 or 40 maximum.

Such a way is of course highly destructive to yourself and society, but it is much more concludent and in-line with the MGTOW philosophy. Because if you don't leave anyone behind to inherit what you have created, neither would you care about what you have created, nor the reputation that you bring upon yourself. Any single person of you that still insists on going his own way, but still aspiring to do great feats, only wishes to be truly appreciated by a women that understands him. And because of this self-denial conflict and the consequence of leaving behind no children to inherit what you have created, MGTOW is a bad philosophy to follow.

Divorce needs to become taboo again. Men need to steer clear of divorcees. Again, the solution is biblical. The Bible teaches that marrying/fornicating with a divorced woman is adultery. A strong moral code is the only thing that will prevent men from supporting divorce by dating divorcees.

Biology

This is why MGTOW is destined to continue failing. You're just as bad as liberals in the sense you deny basic facts of nature.

Doing a disfavor to a bunch of extremely edgy nationalistic assholes that insult you all the time,
usually.

The majority of the hate on being white comes from white women.(with jewish support)
That is why you see this thing where non-white countries are less anti-white than USA and european ones.
I like to calssify women, kikes, niggers and the weak-willed fools that serve them in the same group- enemies.

Cuck

Actual Cuck.

Genetic tests to see if the baby is yours exist you know, and are legal in most countries.

Birth Rates are being taxed, the zionist TV and Soros paid Shills are repeating and reinforcing a message of Hostility to the Masses.
for example: Nobody gave a shit about gays before TV just as long as they stayed away from Children.

MGTOW is unhappy men living in this taxed to insanity society riddled with politicians who only care about Israel and at the same time, but most importantly a wake up call to the Masses.

Mgtow, like all kinds of nihilism are , is a powerful tool allowing self reflection without external influences. Over the last three years, I isolated myself radically. I came to understand a lot about me during this time, and it gave me a more healthy view on my goals and life in general.

I no longer feel shame for wanting to be happy, for wanting to find my future wife, and neither do I let my internal shame and the mockery from others prevent me from actively searching for her. Any normalfag who claims that one should just wait and good things would come wants to prevent me from fiding true happiness.

Before me lies a long and arduous journey, but even if I fail, the friendships developed and the treasures found on the way will be worth it.

Don't bash nihilism, whichever form it may take, don't shame those practicing it, but don't get stuck in endless nihilism, either.

I hope you know that the reddit moderators of /r/MGTOW are jews that ban any criticism of jews from their subreddit.