What does the /left*pol/-Zig Forums situation say about the state of leftism...

Elijah Robinson
Elijah Robinson

What does the /left*pol/-Zig Forums situation say about the state of leftism more generally?
I find it absolutely embarassing that there needs to be a splinter minority board due to the main one being authoritarian and suppressive - not unlike some of the states some posters here seem to like.

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Nicholas Diaz
Nicholas Diaz

/leftypol/ and Zig Forums have zero impact on real world politics

Jace Edwards
Jace Edwards

What does the /left*pol/-Zig Forums situation say about the state of leftism more generally?
That the left isn't unified and organizations will split over issues or power abuses by leadership.

Luis Jackson
Luis Jackson

/thread

Logan Diaz
Logan Diaz

It says that unaccountable, unelected leaders will abuse their power. Sounds like capitalism.

Xavier Torres
Xavier Torres

"Punk rock will never change the world, but I can tell you about a couple of songs that changed me."

It's not about changing the world, it is about changing minds.

Chase Lopez
Chase Lopez

Honestly it is not obviously a proof but the split is more like one of the many many manifestations of the coopting of "progressive"/"left"/"revolutionary" habitats or movements by fags who want to play My Little Dictator and who think of socialism and communism in terms of sport teams. Contrary to the general opinion I don't think the majority of posters are tankies or reddit, there is stilla lot of decent discussion and people that want to be there just to discuss left stuff on the fast board. It's however the mods that are cancer. I am not a jim profit fag, more like what one expects in capitalist run internet? Of course the model is that of the enterprise where everyone is subject to the will of who runs shit. So people like the leftypol mods can take the shots of acting exactly like the most pathetic bourg "progressives" by signalling virtue.
Seriously, I don't think that banning and "moderating" (in the broader sense) is entirely wrong, after all this board is for specific discussion about a specific argument, so for example I don't think banning floodposts by nazbols is wrong. It's the system that is flawed not the desire to want a place to create meaningful discussions.
Honestly the attitude of the "sports team" is the worst and it is especially found in MLs. While I think there are sane MLs there are a lot of them that concieve communism as simply a movement of people that has to do whatever they want and if they don't they are "making the team lose". They don't understand the complexity of the communist movement and idea and how their attitude of ostracizing communist discussion between genuine sects (not nazbols for example) is absolutely necessary for the advancement of the framework in which we operate. I don't think this is a coincidence. The sportsteams MLs have to condemn every sect beside themselves not simply as mmisguided or for example as poisoned by petty bourg ideas (as orthodox trotskysts for example would regard MLs) but as active counterrevolutionary conspirators because this condemnation allows them and their team to present themselves as the completely uncorrupted upholders of the salvation of humanity, a salvation that is both total and for which every error committed was either false or necessary. This IMHO in the end boils down to the fact that these kind of MLs can't see the world beyond the matter of geopolitics, which in turn is the result of the fundamental flaw of thinking that such a thing that "socialism in one country" as a theory is not to be criticized by any mean (if it was, the possibility that the foundation of the ML countries can be criticized present itself and this would be "being against the team")

Gavin Rodriguez
Gavin Rodriguez

Yep.

Alexander Edwards
Alexander Edwards

It's the same problem with lots of imageboards (and subreddits) - mods can't be removed and aren't accountable to the userbase at all and form a clique which bans all opposition and generally wreck things until there's an internal purge. AFAIK there's no straightforward way to fix this dynamic online.
Historically MLs have been terrible at accepting debate and criticism, centralism is shit at tolerating internal debate and since bottom-up democracy and liberal rights go out the window, any movement against the leadership is an existential threat that can be seen as "counter-revolutionary". It's also why Trots split so much. Though in the case of /leftypol/ it's probably people just being pedantic idiots rather than deliberate ideology.

Adrian Lee
Adrian Lee

Liberal nonsense

Jaxson Sullivan
Jaxson Sullivan

I knew someone was gonna say that. Zig Forums and /leftypol/ can't change IRL politics, we have established that. But if you think chans don't influence people's ideas and thoughts you're mistaken. I meet people IRL who give me talking points I know are from /pol/. You have people making threads on /left(y)pol/ saying they are socialists because of it. Hell, I am more generous to M-L because of /marx/.

Chans do change people's minds, ideas and idoelogies, just like any other place where information is exchanged.

Jordan Reed
Jordan Reed

mods can't be removed and aren't accountable to the userbase at all and form a clique which bans all opposition and generally wreck things until there's an internal purge
huh where have I heard that before

Daniel Scott
Daniel Scott

cringe

Austin Adams
Austin Adams

t. Maoist organising on facebook
Keep sharing, the government will fall down any minute.

Either you don't understand that psyops are real, COINTELPRO is real, and that there are people out there on *chan, Facebook, Twitter, reddit, etc. trying to change people's minds, aided by algorithms written with people who have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Or, you do realise, and purposefully ridicule the notion that someone's mind may change lest we dare attempt it.

Why do you think /leftypol/ BO bans anyone who says anything against the approved opinions of the board? Why do you think they use the same tactics on reddit and Facebook groups? Why do you think social media companies spend time and money ensuring people stay in an opinion bubble? Why are conservatives afraid of their kids going to university? Because getting exposed to different ideas and ways of thinking actually does influence the way you think and can change your mind.

We should be making posts that are mindful of this fact.

John Powell
John Powell

Zig Forums is literally the only left-wing space that's not authoritarian and suppressive.

Eli Perry
Eli Perry

And it's the minority splinter board. That's the point exactly. When replying to a post, read it first.

Colton Miller
Colton Miller

I find it absolutely embarassing that there needs to be a splinter minority board
Embarrassing or not, this has ALWAYS been the leftist way – pic thoroughly related – because everyone's so anally retentive about "my way is the only viable way" and get all Tankie about it.
In this case, Zig Forums was forced out for being ideologically unpalatable to the tankies in charge at /left*pol/. No different to one of Stalin's purges … well, except the fact that we're all still alive, I guess

t. lifetime leftist

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Aiden Morris
Aiden Morris

because everyone who wants to be a mod is so anally retentive about "my way is the only viable way" and get all Tankie about it.
FTFY

Carter Hill
Carter Hill

Embarrassing or not, this has ALWAYS been the leftist way – pic thoroughly related – because everyone's so anally retentive about "my way is the only viable way" and get all Tankie about it.
…of course, it's also a vital feature, not a bug, and if you can't split, fork, remerge, and re-split, you've just got a stale party tankhole which might as well be capitalism.
It's called "the left" because it's the left hand path, and includes… everything. Much like communism and its love for "let's hack some shit."

Justin Barnes
Justin Barnes

Being a mashup of dissenters doesn't require people to tank out and purge anyone who disagrees. That's not a good thing.

Daniel Hughes
Daniel Hughes

That's why it said "split," not "gulag."

Grayson Ross
Grayson Ross

I think it was a cute and truthful point

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Justin Rogers
Justin Rogers

Sad but true.

Unless we become mainstream, and beat the bourgeois idpollers and feminist pieces of shit, we're never gonna achieve jackshit.

Adrian Butler
Adrian Butler

What situation? That two thirds of the posters here are /pol/ pretending to be leftists?

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