STEM Degrees - Are They Worth It?

STEM Degrees - Are They Worth It?

For the past three or so years, people have been saying how they're majoring in STEM studies (an academic degree or focus on Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) and how they recommend everyone going to college or thinking about getting a new degree to make themselves more relevant to go for STEM.
Apparently, STEM degree holders are considered much more versatile and can pick up various tech jobs that those with more niche degrees, including other tech degrees, may have harder times obtaining.

What I wonder is, could it be possible for a STEM bubble to be brewing? Is there a bubble already growing? What about a potential oversaturation of STEM grads, couldn't this also devalue the income potential for STEM degree holders? Is there already an oversaturation?

I would much appreciate it if anyone with direct experience with STEM could add their thoughts on it, and if they would recommend it for anyone else (such as, say, someone in their upper 20s/30s looking to expand their market potential). And for anyone who didn't pursue STEM, why not?

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Other urls found in this thread:

m.nautil.us/blog/the-present-phase-of-stagnation-in-the-foundations-of-physics-is-not-normal
backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-present-phase-of-stagnation-in.html?m=1
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18493019
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18468469
tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00029890.1990.11995647?journalCode=uamm20
mathsci.wikia.com/wiki/The_Haruhi_Problem
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039171/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3664360/
nord-sci.com/shop/thymosin-beta-4/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

What is the difference between CIS (Computer Information Systems) and Software Engineering?

Unfortunately I'm not sure beyond what Google could tell you. I only did some Information Science classes for a minor.

Yes they’re worth it if you’re interested in engineering or technical fields. Engineering and trades are the only career paths left that afford you a middle class life. Everything else is poverty level for the first 20 years after college.

Is it viable or recommended for someone around 30 to go into? Will a 30 year old STEM holder even have the opportunities a 22 year old STEM holder will have?

My manager didn’t eat his EE degree until he was about 40. He was able to find a job quite easily and had a higher starting rate than most 22 yo graduates.

Within 5 years you should be up to the pay rate your peers are at.

If it interests you I would do it. Look for any ways you can to save on tuition. In state college, community college to take cheap gun Ed’s. Get your employer to chip in if they do that.

Once your are in your mid late 30s with 10 years of experience you will be treated like you’ve had your defeee since you were 22. All employers care about at that point is your career experience and accomplishments.

Just make sure (you) have connections before signing the loan paperwork. Degrees are just pieces of paper unless you know someone on the inside. It isn't your skills that matter what matters is who you know. I wish someone told me that before I went to college.

Alright, noted, thanks.

Whew, what a relief.

This is also a problem, I'm somewhat asocial (not autistic or anything, I just don't do chit chat).

High earner (over $200k) in a technical field here. I'm also a college dropout and entirely self taught. It's not uncommon. If you know your stuff you can be very successful regardless of degree. If you don't have a degree you will need to do a good job to prove you know your stuff. A STEM degree will probably get your foot in the door easier but being capable is more important. Also if you don't know how to learn on your own it's probably better to get someone to teach you obviously.

I have been doing software development since 22, now I am 28 and decided to get math degree. Only once has my lack of diploma been brought up during job interview, all I had to say was "I decided to go to work instead of school". Only reason I'm going back to university is to prove to myself and later on, maybe get a visa to australia/us. Employment has never been an issue to me, but ymmv, I bet it depends on country.

IMO the market is oversaturated. You're better off getting into something niche like a specialist technician role which is what I am doing. I'm training to become a laboratory equipment technician and designer.

Yes, they are worth the effort. You still will have to see affirmative action and poz though.

No still means no, fuck off Mexican Mafia

There's like five job openings per year for math majors. Waste of money.

CIS is broader; less specific/specialized, leading to multiple specializtions from Computer Engineering to PC board design to Network Engineer. Whereas, SW Engineering is a single venue within CIS and focuses on SW design to structured programming to program implementation.
Threadly reminder that anything and everything one needs to now about S, T, E, or M is online with a plethora of forums for support. The STEM Autist doesn't wait for someone to create employment for them; they are pioneers that create entire industries

If you enjoy never having any work because imported pajeets, boomers, and womyn will fill the jobs before you, sure, go get that toilet paper degree.

Network during school. Get internships (maybe difficult if you're doing a hard science, my degree is in physics and research gigs were pushed. Probably easy enough if you take the time to look into it and talk with some applied science or engineering folks). Learn a skill that is rare and widely applicable.

Hint: plenty of professional engineers are actually pretty bad at basic math. It isn't emphasized and is perceived as less important than mastery of software and field-specific knowledge in many cases. I was given a position to build a workforce forecasting system at the last company I worked for to help management get a grasp on what types of engineers we needed to bring in as projects cycled through the organization ($1bn/yr). The method they had been using was universally shit on but they gave it to me as a starting point. Turned out that the algebra had been wrong and dimensions had been neglected/scrambled. An engineer making $120k+ was unable to do proper algebra. High school level stuff.

Any poor person who is good at math is almost certainly poor by choice.

I guess that boils it down: learn math. It is the backbone of STEM and allows you to move between fields.

I have three degrees in STEM, so I have a broad enough background to weigh in here. You'll get work as clock puncher for the most part. STEM is majority grind work, so if you're inventive / creative, you're not going to find many opportunities that fits that mold in the job market. If you don't care, you're all set.

In hindsight, I would have focused on more of a trade. I don't have a single friend/colleague of mine who enjoys their work. None of them are "happy" where it matters. I think the shit people overlook is trades. Plumbers, electricians, home repair/maintenance and any other kind of shit work that STEM people won't do themselves can make bank. I know electricians pulling down 200k+ working a few months out of the year in various niche areas. You start a business focused on a service/repair industry (everything is built like shit today and will break), you can charge a pretty penny for quality work. Women, especially the cat lady species, sub out damn near everything because they can't/won't do any work themselves. You position yourself to take advantage of the ever increasing pool of STEM people. They make think they're king shit in their jobs, but the second the toilet no longer functions or their home needs work, they'll be on the phone ready to break their wallets open.

I'd say the trajectory is favor of the trade work, the number of people in those areas is declining, while STEM fields are being flooded.

its free in Europe buddy

math sperg here. everyone is looking at the wrong goal post. what good are 10 million more STEM grads when the foundations are rotting and about to collapse under the stagnation of the citadel of science above?

more gibs for more niggers and chinks and womyn in STEM will only make everything worse. the entire academic machine has become the very Catholic church it set out to replace. Academica ia a wasteland. an Orthodoxy of thought, policed by committees of myopic ant people who persecute anyone who Thinks Different. Academica is an elaborate beauty pagent where the goal is not to Discover the Secrets of the Universe, but only to replicate itself and expand pointless bureaucracy of cheerleaders for itself. publish or perish is all that matters. and 99% of what is published is garbage. 99% of academic papers will never be read by a single reader. because they don't say amything new or foundational. academia cares more about the illusion of looking like they are working on progress, than actually progressing human knowledge.
virtually all acdemics are over paid sinecures who are now sucking more resources from society than they give back. acdemia has long crossed the point of diminishing returns. more gibs for sinecures and more govt hand outs and more participation trophy tenure credential for Phds in Intersectional Woke Ancient Wakandian Physics will only accelerate the death spiral of academia.

i say we need to shrink STEM. back in the Golden Age, before physics existed as a separate field, and when math was viewed with skepticism which forced it to be a sub field of the more respected ancient geometry of Euclid, that was an era when real breakthroughs could be discovered. because there was no academia machine getting in the way. hard times make strong men. back then if you wanted to be a physicist or mathematician, well nothing is stopoing you. do it. nobody is going to hold your hand. put up or shut up. that severe hardship meant only the independently wealthy Gentleman could be a Man of Science because only he could afford to spend his idle time pursuing his intellectual curiosities. and his discoveries spoke for themselves. if he broke new ground, other Gentlemen scholars would contact him to learn and to share knowledge. this had the effect if winnowing out the weak and the impostures and the tenured professor types we see today. what we now need is a return to that ancient attitude of individuality which is the true motive necessary to incentivize real progress in science.

the Grand Unified Field Theory is still out there, waiting to be discovered.

furthermore, in justification of my points, physics knows it is in a crisis spanning many decades. the rate of discoveries has slowed and progress has stopped, no matter that more billions are spent than ever before and more tens of thousands of grads exists than ever before.

The Present Stagnation in Physics is Not Normal

m.nautil.us/blog/the-present-phase-of-stagnation-in-the-foundations-of-physics-is-not-normal

backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-present-phase-of-stagnation-in.html?m=1

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18493019

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18468469

Has Progress in Math Slowed Down? by Paul Halmos 1990

tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00029890.1990.11995647?journalCode=uamm20

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If you're a slimy jew they're worth it. If you have a spine you won't like corporate world at all.

Cow towing to HR cunts, surrounded pajeets and cunning women plotting your downfall, self proclaimed PC principal managers (jewish or not) shitting things up etc.

It's a giant shit show.

Trades aren't exactly the panacea but if you can deal with being surrounded by retards you sure as hell will live an easier life working in trades.

Math is easy.
If that was true then every gook would be rich

I got a STEM PhD, but was unable to find a research position. So I suffer in a boring job I hate. Each year that passes, I feel myself sinking deeper into a rut.

I'll rephrase: difficult to be poor if you're good at math in a first world country with a focus on software and engineering.

East Asians make more (on average) in clownworld America than anybody else. I guess you're right.

Disclaimer: I do not endorse our shitty, clownworld economy which consists of using human creativity an ingenuity to invent Orwellian consumer goods, weapons of war that are reaching the point that they can be turned against us without leveling our cities, and medical innovations which prolong the lives of irresponsible slobs at the taxpayer expense. I'm jus' sayin' that if you're good at math they'll find a place for you in clownworld.

a lot of gooks are bad at math. my friend is 100% chinese and is a drop out, uses free gibs on trips to Japan

If you're not in STEM or anything of that nature, is all hope lost?

If you can do it, then yes. Specifically engineering. Why? Not for the money. Because we will need engineers to build our arms and defenses against kike militaries. Motivated amoral engineers are dangerous weapons.

QTDDTOT, nigger.

/thread.

For now, they are still worth it.

Kidding. This post, while good, is guilty of one glaring error. Gentleman scholars are not the only people with high iq, and if no one but the rich have time, or the finances available I might add, to pursue intellectual endeavors, everyone suffers. But this is not to say it is appropriate therefore to fund the poor endlessly in case something might come of it.

don't forget when some /a/utists fucking around with maths and haruhi discovered a proof that the academic sphere couldn't crack for well over a decade
mathsci.wikia.com/wiki/The_Haruhi_Problem
stagnation of thought is poison to academia

You're right here. I've studied the careers of many STEM guys and the majority of their time was spent doing menial stuff. People go into STEM believing that they'll be engineering new kinds of aeroplanes or developing new chemical. Wrong. They'll most likely be monitoring production and doing arithmetical calculations for basic shit.

Mitochondrial injections can repair damaged hearts - very relevant this time of year. This is new medicine. Look into it.

If you want to read more about mitochondria, try this: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039171/

I have a position I can offer you. It's working on meta-analysis of IQ papers and similar things. It's for The Ulster Institute, so you'd be working indirectly for Richard Lynn. Currently we have a meta that is nearly finished. We can pay as well. Hit me up at [email protected]. If you're good at R we can give you some advanced work. Everyone here is peer reviewed published so if you wanna get your name out there and make advancements in intelligence research, it's a great opportunity.

EM degrees are better then a lot of university degrees, but are still inflated. S requires masters or doctorates, and technicians/trades are criminally undervalued. Don't ignore finance/law as well. t. E

Anecdotally, I found no financial success with my hard science degree, for 3 years after graduation. I'm also antisocial and have no connections. Other anons ITT who talk of connections may very well be correct.

On the bright side, a STEM degree will net you the skills you need to successfully breeze by the SSDI application process. I'm going on year 5 without problems.

How would a 22yr old get SSDI? You need 5 or 6 years of gainful work history or you get 750 in SSI, a welfare program, and cannot marry, own more than 3k in property, or earn more than a few dollars before they start devouring your pittance.

After 6 months of not hearing back, I started getting Agoraphobia diagnoses and meds just in case. Getting psychiatrist visits are easier than getting food stamps, easy to get in itself. Those really make the application a shoo-in.

The $750 really goes a long way if you live within humble means, especially if you grow a good bit of your own food.

myocardial infarct stem cell therapy is not mitochondrial injections, what I read of what you linked said mtDNA caused inflammation outside of mitochondria.

Are you trying to hide Thymosin Beta 4, shlomo? The only drug known to white men to heal damaged heart muscle, the only polypeptide treatment, and only cure for myocardial infarction besides stem cells?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3664360/

Note, TB4 can only reprogram cells to fix heart damage if used prior to the damage.

nord-sci.com/shop/thymosin-beta-4/

Getting free psychiatrist visits is*

sage for typo

The money is at least good if you can find work. But with the massive push in the last decade or so for STEM degrees the market is going to become oversaturated. Kind of like Law degrees, far too many lawyers out there now than needed. If you want assured work and high pay, try a medical field (although the high pay part pretty much requires doctorate)

I got a Bachelor's in Informatics. I've applied to up to 100 different jobs, only a few ever called back for an interview. Even on interviews I aced, I was turned away.
Started going with temp agencies, despite my background and education in primarily office environments, they only hire on for warehouse jobs. I can't keep a warehouse job. SSDI won't take me. Dad is spending all his retirement money to make sure I'm left with nothing. Won't inherit the house and if I do I won't do it until the housing market collapses. Unsatisfied with the state of the world. Tired of feeling like the only sane person in the asylum. Going to wait until my savings run out and then an hero. No more point in running from the inevitable.

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The Jew money system is intentionally designed to grind us all into poverty, use their money and they will steal your soul, we must change the money, after we chain the money changers, or the unnamed jew will continue to Wickedly Witch the Wizard of Oz.

don't kill yourself before taking out as many niggers, cops, and jews as you possibly can. if you are determined to die then please don't die in vain

Why not look into teaching in a red state?

Don't wanna go out without making an impact, unfortunately politicians and their families are out of my reach.


I live in a red state, and I have nothing that would qualify me to be a teacher and I don't want to be a teacher. I have Asperger's and I hated school, why would I want to go back?

Ask me how I know you’re telling a story.

The question was not whether you think people can live on their own with only 750$/ month but how someone with less than five years work history qualifies for SSDI.

That anyone on a tit can live independently, absent a support system like, say, a property to grow food on or a place to live rent free, is obviously your rosy opinion. I know better.

Don't promote violence not in self-defense, Moshe.

"The tempered light of the woods is like a perpetual morning, and is stimulating and heroic. The anciently reported spells of these places creep on us. The stems of pines, hemlocks, and oaks, almost gleam like iron on the excited eye. The incommunicable trees begin to persuade us to live with them, and quit our life of solemn trifles. Here no history, or church, or state, is interpolated on the divine sky and the immortal year. How easily we might walk onward into the opening landscape, absorbed by new pictures, and by thoughts fast succeeding each other, until by degrees the recollection of home was crowded out of the mind, all memory obliterated by the tyranny of the present, and we were led in triumph by nature."

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Work on your reading comprehension. Your question was answered.

I lived exclusively with my parents before SSDI.

Fuck off, liar. Filtered.

Biology is the best field to get into, the CSfags are oversaturating their market

I'll be starting my EE program at 30, what can I expect? Will I be the old man in class? What are the youth like, nowadays?

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There's always a tendril. Look locally.

I'm sorry you didn't document your case with doctors.

Personally would look into broad degrees along with a masters so that transitioning in an upper class job or a middle management job is relatively easy. STEM degrees are very good for doing this.


You are right.

Disagree with learning skills that are rare: if it's rare you need to make sure it is functional in a job market or useful to yourself in some way.


Couple it with something useful. Try to couple it with econometrics and you will have an excellent base salary in any western country. It will also have some of the best prospects of increasing that base salary as people with that background do end up in positions that pay very well.

A) Will always be 1 or 2 40+ dudes in a class like that.
B) All the people who are actually going to go onward with what they're doing and not just wasting time are about your age anyways.

t.26 yo
Dump all that refund money into Dogecoin it's at a low atm and is going to have another huge spike within the first half of this upcoming year

I’m in school to be a diesel mechanic, almost the whole program is whites, there’s a few spics and two niggers who both were always late and they got kicked out. Wrenching isn’t difficult, but understanding the theory behind all of it and what to tweak for power and efficiency is complex. Not STEM obviously, but that’s because I wasn’t smart enough for that. Sage for OT

I'm in my thirties maybe and am attending classes full time and working full time and being a dad and husband full time maybe
It's busy as fuck but that degree in chemistry is going to be so worth it
I have my eyes set on the prize and will be in my own analytics lab soon enough
STEM is where the gettin is good

Different user, but sent you a mail.

Nice
Sounds like the tech school in my town
They have welding and mechanic and diesel mechanic and business and nursing and all sorts of good shit
Less than 5000 to get your CDL or welding certificate
Shit good welders on a pipeline or building well sites can earn 200$ an hour with their own truck

...

I welded for 4 years before I started technical school, I took a course in HS and enjoyed it. It doesn’t feel like work because it’s oddly relaxing, it was just hard on my body and I was with a very small company that couldn’t always afford to pay me every week. There’s nothing like creating things people will use for years to come. You wouldn’t happen to be in central Texas would you?

I can't speak for the situation in America but I've talked about it in another thread - STEM is still more likely to land you a job in Europe but it will absolutely not be anything good. What I'm relating was confirmed to me both by statistics and anecdotal evidence, namely my friends and acquaintances.

First of all, anything under a masters degree is worthless in any STEM field,at least compared to the time and money invested. A bachelor's will only get you lab monkey jobs which are just as well filled with people who did some basic vocational training. Even if you have a master's, it better be a really fucking good one or you're stuck in the same position. I'm talking top 25% of graduates or bust.

Second, the "lesser" STEM fields like biology and chemistry are pretty much worthless even then. Your best bet would be straight mathematics, engineering or physics because it allows you to go into completely different sectors by virtue of being able to handle math problems. Otherwise you may still be stuck with an extremely demanding, low paying entry job. Germany dumped its entry level wages for engineering jobs to roughly 30k a year via immigration and general chicanery ("OY VEY we don't get 200 applications for every position, we need more immigration!").

This is also noteworthy. The system of peer reviews is broken. You can buy peer reviews from China now and as the poster said, the success of any given department or group is measured by the quantity of papers, not the quality.

Honestly im in uni but hoping for a fascist revolution so I can skip exams, like hurry the up niggers I know all I need to know and dont need a fucking degree to prove it.

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Nah man , somewhere in the Utah ish area
Take care and good luck on your adventures

Maybe, but I am intelligent enough to know when to call.

Go big and take some ( ( (trash) ) ) with you when you go

CUCK
U
C
K

Te kike shills are obviously out and about.

The systems need engineers and programmers to help enhance its all encompassing systems. Kaczynski predicted it.

Asians will work harder and for less money than you.

Met a self-employed White boi that welded for TX oil companies. There's more work in that field than anyone can handle. He made $100k easily by just showing up. Downside is TX is riddled with niggers and spics, but you don't have to be around them if you don't want to.

I hate to tell you this, but there is no hope for any of us.

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Chemistry makes you infinitely more employable than physics. Also, due to the genetic and neuro revolution, biology supplanted physics in many ways as the foundational field for the economy and society of the future.

STEM is a fuckin' meme. As long as you learn to code, learn a decent amount of math and learn analytical skills then it doesn't matter which major you pick. If you do econ, phys, ee/cpe, cs, math or whatever, just learn to code, do well and you'll be fine. Bio is shit without a masters and even then it pays shit.

STEM is a meme, but "learn coding!!!11!" is the even bigger one. What do you think are billions, yes, literal billions of chinks and poos doing at this very moment? What is easier to outsource to the cheapest bidder (i.e. chinks and poos) than software? If you don't have the chops for being in the top 5-10%, with deep foundational knowledge in theoretical computing, "coding" is literally the soylent green underclass trade (yes, it's a trade) of the future.

This is self defense, retard. Our fucking nation has been invaded by the worst human trash on the planet and you are having trouble figuring out that it is being destroyed and that we are being genocided? There is nothing more 'self defense' in history than taking out as many subhumans as you can when you an hero.

Nah man we gotta wear business casual clothes and be peaceful and unthreatening.

(my number; checked)
Ok, wear your business casual while you use your stem degree to take out as many of our parasitic enemies as humanly possible. Don't be like these paid worthless mercenary FAGGOTS…SELECT APPROPRIATE TARGETS.

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Don't let your dreams become memes user.

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nigga do you even know how coding works? The real skill is in communicating the problems the code solves, then balancing the tradeoffs between making it perfect and getting it out of the door.

poos and chinks cannot communicate well with a business person in the first place. They are not a threat to good devs.

also, only about 5% of the industry actually needs that "theoretical knowledge" to do high performance computing.

Yes. Here's my situation:


I will finish my degree in about 9 months, know how to code, and have IT field work experience. I'm already applying for my Uni's Masters in Cyber Security program, which will help me out immensely with landing an entry Cyber Security gig at a large company. I'll also probably go for my MBA after I gain a bit of experience I'm sure.

Never give up user. Nobody will ever care more about your own success, than you. Do this so you can acquire a wife and a family. No need to just "settle" with a job you hate that barely pays enough to survive.

Now, it's going to be hard, but anything worth having is worth working for.

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cyber security is a meme.

It absolutely is not. It's a relatively higher than average paying IT field.

what tangible value does a cyber security expert bring to an organization?

Yeah basically

Cyber security is probably the most valuable thing in the 21st century, aside from basic intelligence. Safeguarding ones personal/business information is paramount, thus, making it a higher paying field.

Anyone is welcome to apply providing they're honest. I'll shoot you a message after work.

everyone knows security is important. What value does a cyber security professional bring, though? sys admins and software developers actually fix the security problems.

Think long and hard about your career path if the value you bring to a business is not clear.

Does having a cyber security person reduce your risk of being hacked in any sort of measurable way or are you peddling snake oil?

get a certification as well. HAZWOPER is usually required for most jobs in my field, and that alone weeds out at least 4/5 potential applicants. as an anecdote, my first internship i found out later that i was one of three chosen for an interview out of 124 applicants, because i had HAZOPWER.

No. Cyber security isn't about that. No actions you can take will actually reduce your risk of being hacked. The point is to mitigate everything after the fact.

so like a janitor for cyber security incidents? i dont understand why any business would pay people to do that.

it seems like an incredibly rare thing to hire a full time staff member for.

I agree. In my opinion, it's more of a PR thing. I'm not a cyber security guy though, I'm an engineer.

id take the blame and go to jail for 100k/yr

Did Chemistry and did research and published. Internships in Europe for an American. Deemed overqualified for any entry job and any job I get an offer for us circa $15/hr. So I married into a good family and became a shepherd.

Good luck with the basketball americans, user. Godspeed.

thats what I mean by it being a meme, really. if all you are doing is reading articles and making policy that other people enact you

yeah i think "cyber security" people are just watered down sys admins who can't actually do sys admin work. they dictate "cyber security policy" to engineers, but aren't actually providing any sort of tangible value.

if your engineers aren't already thinking of security issues in the first place you need better engineers, not some person who cant do sys admin or dev who got an online "masters in cyber security".

Most of that coursework is just memorizing acronyms.

Real security work is from pentesters, those guys provide a lot of value.