Why do intersectionality idpozzers tend to oppose capitalism? It makes sense to say that capitalism benefits from and propagates non-class antagonisms, but normally I see idpozzers arguing that the end of capitalism is the end of power structures and therefore racism/patriarchy/gender roles will evaporate.
This seems absurd to me. Under Marxism the crowd will probably have tremendously amplified authority over the individual, and unpopular minorities will likely be less protected from pre-existing biases. When you spend two hours a day in meetings deciding who does shitty jobs and who gets commodities, some modicum of popularity becomes crucial. If everybody hates you because you're black/trans/autistic, your life would probably be better under capitalism when porky doesn't give a shit about your company and just wants your labor.
Perhaps it would help to finish the post. The argument applies less to bureaucratic Stalinism and more to stateless, advanced socialism.
I also think that captioned post is a bit misleading. Race and identity have often been interwoven with class struggle, but they are not entirely reducible to class struggle. Obviously communists tend to be against racism, because communists tend to be left wing (left wing not necessarily as an ideology but as a cultural coalition). It's quite easy to imaging some version of socialism where vast swathes of the population retain racial/religious/whatever biases, even if revolutionaries themselves were more egalitarian.
Jose Cox
I don't agree with the OP but he literally said nothing even remotely resembling any of that. You're embarrassing yourself.
Daniel Powell
that roman statue part hit too close to home I would never use one as an avatar, but I do love the aesthetic.
It's a bit funny that you defy 'class reductionism' in the same breath as you mock 'idpozzers'. Racist and religious prejudice is, in fact, shaped majorly by material relations, to the point where in an advanced socialist society they would be non-issues. Very few people would truly hate blacks if black people aren't forced to live in the ghetto and constantly exposed to shitty gang culture. Very few people would be fundamentalists if traditional power structures are uprooted and churches are rendered powerless to do anything but minister to a dwindling base of voluntary believers.
Also your OP reads like you believe that socialism will be endless committees that are popularity contests, and it will be just as tiring and alienating as laboring for a capitalist, making prejudice surface. That's a questionable idea, to put it lightly.
Many prejudices, particularly sexual and gender based ones, are not nearly as dependent on material disparities. Clearly there are stigmas that seem pretty orthagonal to material structures ("Asians are good at math"), but it's hard to say how much effect they'd have in a classless society.
I'd also be skeptical toward any claim that the formation of racial subculture is wholly dependent on class differentiation. Black kids sat together in the cafeteria not because they were all poor, but because they didn't want to be token black kids. They didn't want to be experienced at a racial level, they wanted more room for expression at a personality level. At every level of voluntary social organization, ethnic groups cluster so that people can avoid being minorities.
Depending on what degree of uprooting this may be true.
Ask questions or make arguments.
Wyatt Gutierrez
The whole thing about ancient statuary being gaudily painted really trips me out. It kinda makes me wonder what other impressions we have of historical cultures that are completely wrong.
Zachary Smith
the paint wore away within the timeframe of antiquity. there are ancient references to pure white translucent marble of the writers favorite statues. it wasnt entirely one way or the other.
Tyler Young
I'd argue almost all of them are. For example gender prejudices are based on positions in a patriarchal property-based household.
Are you telling me with a straight face that there were no material conditions underlying black kids self-segregating? It a bit more complex than someone being poorer or richer in the now. Take a closer look at any minority group anywhere and you'll see there are specific material and economic conditions underpinning their clustering. They band together because of traditional/religious familial or organizational forms, to resist economic pressure from a stronger group, etc., not because they have an innate spiritual link with people of the same color. Black kids were a reflection of their parents who were still feeling the effects of slavery and segregation. The tendency wouldn't be gone overnight under socialism but it surely would dwindle.
Even now religion is pretty much on life support in the West, propped up by private schools, scams, capital funding, isolated religious communities and such. Remove the underlying material conditions beneath this and religion will become an odd hobby.
Even Soviet workers did not spend several hours a day at committees, and technology and organization progress. In future socialism you could make workplace decisions from your phone in a matter of minutes. Furthermore, under the socialist mode of production work hours would be fewer, there would be significantly less if any incentive to dick over your fellow prole - where would this enmity arise from?
I particularly do not understand this part:
So are we talking about developed socialism (where the commodity-form is abolished and some fashion of advanced labour voucher system is in place), or some kinda barracks communism where a committee decides everyday who gets commodities and who cleans the shitter for free?
Landon Nguyen
A superficial obsession with Greek statues is the surest way to tell you've come across a philistinic brainlet with embarrassingly pleb tastes in every department and absolutely no knowledge of art history.
Do you really think class determines the treatment of transgender people? Homosexuals? With women in particular, economic issues permeate gendered relations but I really do not believe they define them. Some women hate men for reasons basically orthogonal to whatever economic advantages men retain, and men hate women for other reasons which are basically orthogonal to economic relations. When a gay guy hates women because he's "never heard one say something profound", or when a woman hates men because "they always talk over you", that's not really going to change under socialism.
Of course not. The cause and effect here is blurred though.
This is a grossly uncharitable reading of what I wrote.
That's certainly possible. However, assuming a revolutionary communist system would, in its infancy, be dominated by discussion about race, race relations could worsen dramatically. If you made everybody listen to keynote speakers for African American studies you wouldn't be healing America's racial trauma, you would be fostering resentment and aggravating nonsynthesizing dialectics. Most people cannot negotiate a middle ground to the race issue between "white racists" and "black dysfunction".
I suppose I mostly agree, at least for a couple centuries. It was capitalism that killed Christianity.
Most Soviet workers were not deciding all of their roles and responsibilities democratically.
People try to socially elevate/differentiate themselves. Some people are less likable and will be shunned or even ostracized.
I meant in a sort of stateless direct democracy mode of social organization.
Camden Hall
Because it is hip in their social circles. Likely they don't quite understand what it is all about, or they would drop their identarianism. Do you have these biases? Why do you assume others would have them then? If you actually look at the numbers, at least in the US, liberal morality is mainstream. It's relatively recent, but there has been a sea change in what is the norm. It is what is prompting panic in the tradcaths and their ilk.
Idpolers assume that others have them. These people have world views where racism and sexism wield overwhelming force.
John Mitchell
Except they don't. They oppose the government not doing stuff and they want the government to do lots of stuff. That's the beginning and end of their "opposition" to capitalism.
Charles Fisher
You will often hear things like "racist capitalist patriarchy" from those types. Their discussion of Marxism is often limited to that, but still.
Brayden Bailey
Wew, it's just a reactionary aesthetic, no need to be so rude. When ☭TANKIE☭s spam photos from the USSR no one says "well AKHTUALLY those uniforms are inferior to EARLIER far NICER uniforms you filthy PLEB" Classical sculpture evokes stoicism and a period of brazen authoritarianism. You don't need to have a degree in art history to appreciate the immense skill and effort it would take to carve them.
I was curious so I reverse image searched the left images in . From top to bottom: I could name 4 from their depictions and was familiar with 5 of them. Education sure has deteriorated over the past 150 years.
Connor Phillips
Yeah, I do actually. A lot of prejudice towards sexual minorities stems from their nonconformism towards gender roles, which is again economic in nature. "Wtf why is that dyke driving a truck and eating carpet, she should be at home raising kids." Or the idea that non-traditional sexual lifestyles are lazy and decadent - a prole directing his very real displeasure with his economic status towards a false target.
You realize that kind of talk more often than not just shallow rationalization of deeper ressentiment.
When you ignore material subtext that can be analyzed, what is left? A spiritual link or people separating friend from foe by sniffing each other's asses like dogs.
That is why we oppose idpol, it runs directly counter to its proposed goals.
That's kinda pessimistic. Most people are not assholes or immature middle school bullies and will not act on mere dislike unless they have incentive to do so. Socialism will remove most incentives to fuck other people over.
Your description is a rather crude idea of such, also unless you're an idealistic anarkiddie the stateless direct democracy will be preceded by a proletarian dictatorship, it will not happen overnight and inherit the exact current state of things
Adrian Stewart
I don't know about that, the painted Augustus has a very distinctly roman beauty. It looks like a roman catholic statue in a cathedral. You can see the missing link between the two more easily this way.
