If your means of revolution doesnt have an economic end it wont happen. You cant prove me wrong. No armed revolution has resulted in any successful collectivist state. Your idealism with either result in capitalism running rampant unchecked or a dictatorsip under a thin veil of communism. Mutualism and Agorism are on the right track, mutualism even has two working examples(WIR Bank in Switzerland and Sardex in Italy). Wealth is the only power that exists in this world and you'll realize that once you start thinking about how to implement your ideas.
If you believe that Cuba or the USSR is a better place to live youre a fucking moron. I grew up in Cuba and I know how it is first hand. I dont need some fucking College moron who majored in poli-sci and thinks he knows what suffering is because he has to pay student loans. People dont care about your idealism it means nothing to them. Give them concrete options. Lenin gave them bread. Capitalism at least gives the slimmest chanc of social mobility. Socialism,communism etc lack tangibility and pragmatism. PROVE TO THAT YOU ARENT A BUNCH OF IDEALIST FAGGOTS WHO CANT GET SHIT DONE.
It's not as good as x, so it's citizens bitch about it.
Ayden Miller
Please, tell me more about how grandpa's plantation was confiscated by the evil communists.
Dylan Gonzalez
Are you fucking serious? How sheltered and ignorant are you that you dont realize Cuba is one of the worst places to live. Any state enforced collectivism will lead to oppression. Youre switching out your corporate and state oppressors for a dictatorship. Explain why cuba is good dumbass.
Christopher Lee
My grandfather wasnt even rich. But im sure some braindead fucking ☭TANKIE☭ knows better than an actual cuban right? Having mommy pay for your healthcare sure is a bitch.
Connor Cooper
the absolute state of you lad
Jacob Morris
I somehow expected better.
I'd chime in with what I think OP is talking about, but I'm not going to do their fucking job for them.
Georgist mutualist here, try to insult me.
P.S. Agorism is dumb.
Nicholas Lewis
There is only economy and everything else is a byproduct
Adrian Brooks
Why? Other than the artificial moral division between Black Market and Red market, which are, of course, inextricably linked.
Jonathan Foster
Its painful. You get education and medical and bread. You basically live like a upper range poor person. Granted, we live better than homeless americans, but everyone wants freedom. You see the greatness in other countries and have to live your life knowing you can never have it. If your not in school you actually still suffer like I did in the latter half of my life. I had to pick up a second job like everyone else on the island just to get by. Standard of living is low.
Charles Rogers
I'm way more libertarian than most the faggot larpers on this bored, but, you're seriously going to tell me Cuba is worse off than it was under fucking Batista?
How old are you? Sure shit in Cuba is perfect but you've got to be kidding.
Cuba has been talking about opening up public enterprises to cooperatives, ffs, m.
Aaron Moore
What makes a country great? A happy people? Or a wealthy one? I'm not implying "SPOOKS" but curious about your opinion.
Colton Russell
And how does that compare to countries at a similar levels of development? Haiti, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Brazil or Guatemala? You'd have to be deluded to believe Cubans would be better off had the revolution not happened, not to mention most of cuba's problems being down to the us and israel spending the last 60 years sabotaging and isolating cuba's economy against the wishes of the rest of the world.
Adrian Martin
The standard of living is higher than other comparably poor countries, has a low infant mortality rate, high literacy rate for its economic development. Off the top of my head, anyway. It ain't paradise, but name a better country on its economic level.
How would privatization fix any of that?
Brody Hall
Are you implying you’re living in Cuba? Because I might have to call bullshit
Justin Howard
Puto.
Saludos.
John Taylor
it's not a paradise but it's better than any other caribean island aside from the resort ones where the local workers still live in shit. Cuba is a fucking island with scarce resources. There is no fucking way you could make a thriving industrialized country there, particularly since it's right under the world's largest imprialist power. Cuba was worse before the revolution and you should be fucking gratefull for the commies who managed to guarantee you the basics even while embargoed. Cuba was a US pupet shithole before the revolution why would it be any different nowdays?
Cooper Morris
Does a butthurt Cuban exile know better than a Romanian? Compared to today, none of the land owners dispossessed from 1949-1962 were rich by any means. However, the number of baubles they owned has no bearing on their productive relations, which were undeniably exploitative.
Easton Mitchell
How do you feel about the US deliberately trying to fuck up your country and starve your people?
Memorandum From the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs (Mallory) to the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs (Rubottom) Washington, April 6, 1960.
>If the above are accepted or cannot be successfully countered, it follows that every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.
OP is mad because he drew the short stick and was born in the third world, but it still one of the best third world countries to be born in.
Christian Nguyen
Outside of your bullshit about Cuba I'll respond. Marx, Lenin, and plenty of other Socialists have wrote literally hundreds if not thousands of pages each about economy… Shit that Cuban education must be horrible! Yeah you can thank fuckheads like you for that one. If you think Capitalism isnt running rampant you are deluded, and if you thinks it's checked, we must have different ideas of what that word means. I don't really care about the system of governance as long as it serves the people or is right. It's a balancing act, and if a dictator balances it, why should I care? Mutualism is just Capitalism and I don't care or know what Agorism is. I just looked up Agorism, and it is some libertarian bullshit. Fuck libertarians. There is more power than wealth, but the fact that you think Marxists aren't concerned with wealth shows that you are in fact a fairly intricate puppet for rats. So anyways I'll start listing some stuff out. The state will be seized during revolution. The now Communist state will avoid Capitalists in the government. Capitalists will be removed from business. The Capitalist's money will be mostly redistributed to the people in the businesses, but this will likely be affected by necessity. These businesses will be organized by industry into a democracy. I personally see this as a type of federal model, where workers vote their workplace, the workplaces votes for the region, until they vote in the overarching representatives, etc… This way people vote on things they actually understand and they can't leverage themselves to be assholes. It also makes it so Tim Johnson can go home and play Fortnite without making management decisions. This also works because, for example, a workplace can't just not work, because they can only choose their workplace leader. The guy over him will shit on his head, and the people under him will get shit on their heads. Anyways, I'm bored now so this is all you get.
Jace Thompson
...
Nicholas Long
I don't approve of requiring a state at all.
John Garcia
Enjoy being crushed by imperialism
Michael Campbell
Nice shitshow of a thread I have just witnessed, anyway, porque no mejor vuelves a Cuba a ver que te hacen? ;)
