So, I managed to become an engineer in my country. Capitalism is paying me well, extremely well...

Wow, somebody is getting raped in the room right to me, but I am not getting raped, so everything is fine.

Wow, there is a fire, but it's not on my property, so we shouldn't do anything to prevent future fires because they will NEVER get to me.

This is a great time because everyone who doesn't care about their fellow man while jerking off how "patriotic" and "loyal to their country(country's corporations and nannies)" is now exposed and can easily be labeled a hypocrite if they keep trying to con people. Also these fake nusocialists who bitch about corporations exploiting people while getting everything from amazon apple and google and being high up in a corporation are being exposed, because every single one of these people are part of the problem, pretend to be part of the solution for brownie points, and will eventually admit they are part of the problem and don't care.

My other answer to OP is it is there is no question that certain groups get preferential treatment due to bribes and shit. The economy is rigged to favor certain mafias, and the only reason that can't be easily is fixed is because they make the system unnecessarily complex to hide this. Socialist policies that give better prices for medical treatment to low class people, better deals on credit/loans, equal opportunity to get into different fields without paying for a 500,000 license, basically making a few adjustments to the pyramid scheme to give Average Joe a chance to escape paycheck to paycheck purgatory would be great.

It's retarded how great you can live on just like 40k a year with no family, so anybody making more than a million doesn't need that that much. When there aren't homeless and starving people, expand the ceiling a bit, but if you keep ignoring the floor it will collapse and society will fail.

...

I dunno ask a communist who's in STEM.

You're not owed an incentive to side with communists. When the revolution comes, nobody will care about your opinion. Do you seriously believe the Bolsheviks sat down with the Romanovs for a discussion about what was in it for them?

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I am, user.

There are thousands of us. Have you ever heard a free software enthusiast speak? Hell, sometimes I think Stallman is a commie really good at hiding his powerlevel.

Nah read

Never met any. Most of my colleagues seem to not give a shit about politics. They seem to think that the living standards depend on technology, not on xism or yism.
Say there's a sudden blackout. They dont start thinking about democracy or feudalism or capitalism or communism or voting or revolution… they think about the dam, the engine, atmospheric discharge, transmition lines, electric transformers, fake lake to counter the drought, smaller and faster streams that dont freeze as easily as other water, etc etc etc…..

They consider engineering to be just like food sector. Above politics. Doesnt matter if its x or y in charge. They both want food all the same. They both want engineers to fix the tractors all the same. Doesnt bother them too much if its x or y.

Why do you think anyone here would care about you. You're not the target demographic. People who are happy with their conditions don't revolt. We're not here to convince you that your life is actually shit and will be so much better under a different mode of production. If you have some degree of intellectual curiosity feel free to stick around and read the political economic theory behind communism.
As far as your general demeanor is concerned, engineering is a niche in the labour market which only requires so many people filling it, like any other it can and will become oversaturated. With every engineer the wages paid to engineers will fall. The labour you happen to sell isn't any more special than anyone else's. There will never be a world where everyone is an engineer earning a 6 figure salary. Necessarily most people will not and cannot be engineers. Necessarily most people will not and cannot be capitalists. In a few years the economy will have changed, engineering degrees will be as worthless as all the others and then the likes of you will also be suffering the consequences of an irrational mode of production oriented towards capital accumulation.
Those people will be looking for something better, where employment and housing are secure, where our efforts are aimed at a better future.

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What is it with people coming on to the board to argue without even understanding a single bit about marxist theory?

There's only room for so many engineers and high-skilled workers in society. Some people work just as hard and still live paycheck to paycheck.

in my country engineer degrees are worthless unless you work for western companies

What revolution? Everyone who is useful seems to have a fun time in capitalism. Having a marketable skill equals smooth sailing in the market.

So.. who's left for your revolution?
Your fighter/bombers who can establish combat air patrols, air superiority, air supply lines, they seem to make enough money to be pro market.
Artillery, navy, army officers, army mechanics (air force needs like 50 mechanics and engineers per 1 pilot, its crazy), all these people who could effectively carry out a revolution, dont seem to care for your revolution.

But it seems that all the people with any revolutionary potential in them are already happy with capitalism.

A capitalist can pay me to make him an engine that outperforms thousands of manual labor workers, or a drone that can missile away all the pitchfork mobs. Well, not really. I dont have the numbers for what I'm talking about here. But you get the gist of it.
All the 'useful' or 'needed' people seem to be happily employed at the moment.

I didn't realize you were that much shielded from reality.

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keyword: seem. There are plenty of people with good degrees that get screwed by capitalist reality. I know a computer-engineer who got paid so little in his home country he moved to mine because he makes more money here flipping burgers.

It doesn't matter what you "need" because you will get the gulag.

So? Why should anyone pay them, if they can get away with not paying it?

Try not paying an engineer with a masters, see what happens. All of a sudden you require a million more manual farmers or factory manual laborers. It is obviously much easier and stable to just keep the engineer happy.

Sum up the horse power of a thousand manual laborers over thousand hours and thousand tools they use. Now sum up horse power provided by a handful of engineers with a master/phd degree, over 1000 hours and equal amount of raw materials you'd need to equip the manual workers.

"no"

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So the point you're trying to make is that engineers are a lot more useful than manual workers so therefore manual workers deserve to live in poverty?

Society wouldn't function if everybody was an engineer. We still need manual workers to do things we haven't figured a way to automate - does this mean they deserve to have the full value of their labor taken from then and put into the hands of people who had enough starting dough to risk starting a business?

Yeah, shitty or undeveloped countries dont have developed industries. If he was any smart or skilled engineer, he'd be making mad cash developing the industry over there instead of flipping burgers.

But it seems to me I am 'more powerful' in a way. You have a.. pitchfork I presume. I can make a machinegun and mow down ~100 of pitchfork people a second. And if you ever start a violent coup, 'my kind' should eliminate 'your kind' without sweat.
Engineering is awesome, you see.

I think I see his problem. You see, studying.. gluonic plasma physics, which is incredibly hard and all that, but has absolute 0 application in any industry or business or anything, isnt exactly all that useful.

Physics, just like engineering, has its mad cash branches AND ultra hyper theoretical no-application branches. Picking the useless education and thinking it is useful education is your own fault.

actually begone satan
what do you think 'revolutionary potential' means exactly?
you keep coming back here and posting these silly fantasies in the same writing style, its really tedious actually
your idea of 'useful' is entirely detached from reality. In the real world every person in the world who is employed (vast majority of the population) is useful and needed, if they weren't they wouldn't be employed since no one unprofitable is employed. Engineering is worthless without the thousands of other workers which provide everything that makes the engineers work possible. Without the millions of workers on farms, pouring out cement, laying bricks, driving trucks, mining rare earth metals, refining materials, putting together electronics, sewing clothes and ten thousand other tasks you no doubt consider below your technical capabilities and which you no doubt will brag about being able to entirely automate.
The bottom line is in the real world labour makes all things and the vast majority of the workers on whose labour the entirety of civilisation rests aren't all too happy with their conditions. and things will only get worse

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all those very "useful" people working in advertising and financial services, eh?

thanks for pointing out why capitalism is shit, faggot

He's a German.

Yeah, so then that must mean plastic surgery is the most important medical field.

I wouldn't get too cocky my friend, study history a little and see what happens to fascists.

If an engineer devaluate your work, why do you think you are still entitled to the value of your work before it was devaluated?

Back in the day in some medieval town you could probably have above average life standard because you could make shitty leather shoes. Does this mean you yourself should pay 6 digits to a below average cobbler (in today's cobbler standard) for the shitty shoes?

...

Not an expert, but when it comes to violent conflicts, it seems that people with superior engineers on their side win. I mean even if you wanna start your violent coup against me, you would still need me around to set up your trucks, supply lines, machineguns, various other engineering equipment, no?

Engineering is above your petty politics. Doesnt matter if x or y rules, if xism or yism is considered the best by the masses…. yall still need the engineers to keep the lightbulb shine, no?

Didnt Soviets put a few of their engineers on post stamps and so on too? Capitalism rewards engineers with mad cash. Engineers win no matter the ism.

We're not talking about engineers devaluating work, we're talking about the fact that society can't run purely on engineers you stereotypical self-important engineer faggot.

The comparison you're making has nothing to do with communism.

Yeah. Saying 'engineering' is a gross oversimplification. Just like saying 'science'. There are over thousands of vastly different branches in it.

Studying a useless branch of x instead of an useful branch of x is your own fault, no? I am not saying 'the engineers are entitled just because', I am saying my set of skills makes people throw cash at me with a stupid grin.

die liberal
why not become a technocrat

wow, labour is the basis of civilisation no matter the mode of production civilisation is at the time
who would have guessed

jeeeeesus christ dude. You realize you're a living stereotype of that self-important deluded engineer?
The rest of your posting devolving into vulgar masturbation just proves my point
You could make the same argument that when it comes to violent conflicts it seems that people with superior logisticians/tacticians/numbers/home-ground terrain on their side win.

And what does it have to do with communism anyways? If your point is "I've got it made so why should I care?" then there really is no point in trying to convince you.

See every war america did.

ITT (let's be honest, every topic) leftpypol proves they're all losers

I'm not even poor or uneducated. I maybe have it just as made as you do. I seriously hope you die of a painful disease though.

t. OP

Its pretty telling that OP checked out as soon as someone called them out for coming here and making the same dumb thread every week.

I've never met a human engineer.

The moment I realise i've found enlightenment is when rather than questioning your taste, I just sit laughing for like 10 minutes at the idea of someone having a shed outside his house full of bikes. Maybe they're not even stacked neatly, maybe half of them are just lying in a pile.
Like, I bet if I went and stole one bike, right at the back, you'd notice and you'd call the police and you'd be STEWING with rage that someone had touched one of your precious bikes, even though you never ride it because it's not very good.

Then at some point you'll be like "Hmm, 50 bikes is a LOT of bikes… but maybe I'd be happier with a 51st?", hahahahahaha.

But my dude, if you already cant compete in the market, why do you think you can compete on the battlefield with the engineers???

Look up workerless factories. Manual laborers are obsolete. Not even to mention that a Russia style feudal worker who carried out the revolution is near impossible to find today! Modern proleteriat works at the office, serves food, is a fucking make up artist, or a fashion expert, or coffee with a weird name enthusiast, or some other utterly irrelevant, welfare tier, absolute luxury/service industry based job!

Your revolutionary manpower doesnt even exist. Your western proleteriat cant even lift.
Western prole with a brain doesnt care about your revolution. Western prole with a muscle DOESNT EVEN EXIST!

Not even to mention the illiterate peasants won after the imperial army got butchered in first world war.
Have fun tackling pentagon with your army of nail polishers and hair dressers.

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Most important insight of the thread.
OP is quite clearly an autist sociopath detached from reality.

so this thread is subtle MLM third worldist propaganda?

Having a passion for things besides making money is not a fault, but a normal human trait.

Dude. You're making this assumption that it's 'engineers vs. laborers' like they're competing. Are you literally retarded or is this your understand of the relations of labor? Yeah manual workers are becoming obsolete - do you really think anybody here is making the argument "laborers > engineers" or is this just another expression of your retarded self-important engineer complex? Are you arguing against communism or are you arguing against manual labor in general like it's the same thing?

fucking amazing OP, please keep posting

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Brah there's all sorts of bikes out there, c'mon, step it up. A mountain bike and a racing bike are all different from a road bike, which is different from a sport bike, which is different from a city bike, the list really goes on…..

Jesus, you dont bike much, do you? For engineers, aesthetic is just a side effect of functionality. I dont collect bikes, for their aesthetic value. A flat foot bike is in my collection not because of its looks.

You arent really smart, are you? Left to your own devices, you wouldnt really enjoy a better life than under your current minwage conditions, would you??

Those who are comfy in today's society have no need for socialism. It is those angry enough to shoot guns at those who are comfy that need socialism. And they will have their day.

oh my days.

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I like to imagine that OP constantly brings up the fact that he's an engineer in every conversation to anybody ever.

I imagine he spends more time thinking what bike is he going to use than actually using them
Can you forget ridding a bike if you have 50 of them?

never stop coming back Zig Forums
your threads are the most beautiful autism

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...

We are competing in capitalism. And engineers are winning. 'Bigly', as the silly meme goes.
Most of the proles ARE getting Darwined out of economy. Whatever your average prole do, there is an engineer who does it better. Or cheaper. Or more efficient.

So much for 'materialistic' philosophy, eh?

No you absolute retard. Engineers are figuring out ways to eliminate labor like they've always done and laborers are doing the work that needs to be done that hasn't been automated. What part of that is competition? It's not like 'big labor' is pulling the strings to take engineers out of the game so they can keep doing menial work? Is that what you think communism is?

Ok good. The sooner we eliminate menial labor the better. The question is how will society function when not everybody can be a engineer, and if everybody was you'd have the same wage as a laborer right now.

The poor and people in general deserve, or not doesn't matter the point it would be better for everyone, a chance at leadt a chance to be whatever they feel like. Not everyone will make it, but that's no reason for them to used or abused.
Also engineers are weird as fuck. Pls come here more often, you are funny

Why? They seem, objectively speaking, measurably inferior.

Western 'suffering' proles all seem to be drop outs, or feminist underwater basket weaving phd's. They are useless in industry. They are useless in combat. They are useless in all relevant aspects. They are net consumers. They are tax consumers. They are not exploited, what is there to exploit? Labor? Machines work better, more, cheaper, need less vacation or sick time…. and yes I figured maintaining/running costs in.

Western proles all seem to have internet connection. And the most popular internet traffic seems to be porn. And videogames. Not any useful revolutionary skills.
1) there's no one useful to rebel
2) the effort required to topple down a single military satellite, or an armed drone, seems to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of what your modern day proleteriat can achieve because all the useful proles are too busy celebrating capitalism

Good for you, user. Congrats on your success and happiness.

If that's your view of reality than consider yourself lucky. You're just describing western middle-class lazy kids. Real poverty is working more than 40 hours a week just to keep a roof over your head and not having any way of escaping the cycle. Being born into this and not affording an education or even having time for it.
Yes, that's what the board you're posting on happens to be about.
N O T
A L L
J O B S
A R E
A U T O M A T E D
Y E T

Who is 'we'? Sure, some people are doing this. Vast majority isnt doing anything useful.

Yeah, sure. I need this guy, and that guy, and maybe that guy over there too. But why do I need the majority of the population?
Seems like a few useful ones are doing useful work, and the rest are creating 'small pond with too many crocodiles' situation.

A tractor replaced all the peasants. A factory replaced all the workers. Look up modern agricultural mechanization. Or modern industrial engineering.

YOU DONT NEED THE PEOPLE ANYMORE
Physical resources are physically limited. The few have the technological capacity to remove the many.
MAKE YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS

you keep making this same thread jerking yourself off to your engineer-society that will happen any day now because all the people who aren't like you are useless stupid dumb dumbs who should all die and it will never become any more true

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So you're saying the majority of the population should be poverty'd into oblivion to make way for a engineer-elite since there won't be any need for labor?
I don't think that's going to happen without a proletarian revolution establishing FALC. And besides, you don't think engineering will be replaced with an AI?
Human work in general is due to become irrelevant at some point - what use will capitalism be then?

you don't really understand what the word "service" means do you

Lol bullshit, there isn't a six figure engineering job in the world that only requires 2 hours a week. You're just a bourgeoisie LARPing as a worker.

Seriously go get cancer and die if you think all those billions of people working are 'not doing anything useful' because they're not "genius engineers" like you.

Well what do you mean service? Are you implying that because everybody else isn't such a beautiful god genius engineer they should be your servants? What the hell kind of point are you trying to make you weird, narcissistic sociopath.

Is this shit bait?

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he's an amerimutt basment-dwelling autist larping as what he imagines a 'sophisiticated gentleman engineer' would be like

Yes. Labor. What fucking world do you live in? Sorry to break your sociopathic fantasy, but engineers of all stripes compose only 1% of the American labour force.

It's probably that doctor from a few days ago

...

ai will darwin out the engineers just like the engineers will darwin out the non-engineers?
at least it seems logically consistent

idk but the whole sci-fi scenario of genocide for existential purposes makes perfect sense in a resource limited environment among actors who require resources for existence

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he makes the same thread with a slightly different twist every week. There was the 'super-doctor' last week and the 'i saw cows get milked automatically' man before that etc.. this is the 6th or 7th iteration of this thread

I'm going to call undergrad-engineer who thinks he's a big-brain wojak.

at least he has fun hobby in his escapism, who knows what he will be next week

We're definitely resource limited but not to the point of sci-fi tier genocide of 99% of the population when it could be managed a lot more precisely and sustainably if resources are treated as a problem of commons(as in communism)

could Aidan be behind this

Aidan is now behind everything, obviously. this the doctors' plot nao

ye but in this sci-fi it could simply be easier for the baddies to do genocide than precise management

it follows a weird logic where if you depopulate enough people everyone gets to own a private lake and there is no conflict over resources because there is enough of everything for a small population that doesnt require labor because of tech

Y'know, I'm almost miffed I missed that thread. But as a bona-fide software engineer myself, I'm looking forward to his next one.

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How do we know you're not Aidan?

Firstly, this.
Good work pulling yourself up by your boot straps, nobody denies that it happens, but the issue is that not all members of the population can do so within an economic model that systematically concentrates wealth and encourages the waste of resources on useless commodities solely to further profit. No leftist with two neurons would claim that you're bourgeois for being a wealthy engineer or necessarily come from such a family, nor that you work too hard, that's silly. However, if you work on average two hours a week, you do gain a significant portion of your wealth from other workers, thus benefit from exploitation indirectly. Exploitation is not being a senior in your work environment and instructing less experienced workers, but rather the very literal interpretation of the term, in the same way that one exploits resources of the earth to use to their own ends, your labour is a source of revenue for your bosses, and that is a core element that socialism seeks to end. As for you not owning the MoP that you use for work, think of it less like socialists screeching autistically at the notion that a construction worker doesn't own the jackhammer he uses, rather that collective ownership of MoP is a prerequisite for socialism to be built.

Trust me, when thins go to shit you will want it.
But if you really don't care about the well being of your fellow men then there is really no reason for YOU to be a commie right now.

But as sidenotes, don't expect your offspring to have a solid life just because you live in comfort now, and don't waste your time blaming people for behaving the way their surroundings guide them to. You can moralize as much as you want but whores and drunkards will always exist as long as the condditions are there for them to exist. So while they exist and are not directly incentivized to become engineers like you they will be there amd human potential will be lost.

This is what capitalism does to you

This guy lives in a cartoon

Why are right libertarians bigger sociopaths than even fascists?

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it's actually a lot more complicated than that

You don't, I do.
I don't like the alienating effects capitalism has on people.

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Your ability to have such a lenient workweek with so few hours and such nice wages is due to the fact that your country, assuming you live in the west, has grown fat off of the productive capacity of the rest of the world. Where the fuck would that money be coming from otherwise? How could the vast majority of workers in the west be employed in the service sector if there wasn't value being created elsewhere? Capitalism is doomed, see the falling rate of profit and the crises of overaccumulation. You can't keep gnawing off Africa/Asia/Latin America. At some point, the chickens will come home to roost. And that is when you will no longer be able to have your cushy engineer lifestyle, unless we do communism.

t. haven't read the thread in order to avoid autism

It's ok user, that's a problem for our grandchildren

I thought leftypol was smart enough to understand that the material conditions for a revolution would essentially negate OP's comfy situation

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Isn't that what political discussion is all about? Hug-boxes aren't healthy for thought.

What if instead the money was kept for economic stability, but the money was owned by the state instead of private bankers and put towards development instead of profit-expansion?

Some people feel a lack of depth in societies based upon debt and consumerism no matter how rich they are, they'll always feel a void.

Projecting? A society will never work if you need to force trains of thought out of it by force instead of teaching.

Elaborate.

Even if Communism wins through physical revolution, it won't last unless there's been a widespread ethical agreement. When will you all learn that forcing people under an ideology does not make the ideology successful?

Thread ended here.

But it didn't contribute any reasoning.

No you retard, that doesn't exempt you at all, you can be a pig farmer who rakes shit the first 30 years of his life then rise up the bacon industry and become the ceo of your own bacon company that tops the rest, you're still a fucking porky pig yourself.
My point exactly, you DON'T work.

There I dismantled your argument, now put your head inside the nearest machine so the gears can crush your empty skull.