How can we get STEM people on our side?

What the fuck are you talking about and what the fuck is postgrad. Everybody does some form of higher education after their highschool in my country, be it a trade, stem or humanities. Everybody has at least 4 years of post-highschool education.

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Well the reason there are so many humanities people into communism is because of either lifestylist or moralistic reasons. There are very few people who actually read marx and whatnot, and in humanities you simply come into contact with leftist thought more, while in stem you do not have any contact with any philosophy or politics apart from leftoids screaming that STEM is litterally the devil and that every STEM major is sexist because there are few girls in STEM. Not a big surprise then that most STEM people don't become leftists and easily fall for the all trite memes.

Postgrad is post undergrad, which is what you're talking about.

I think what he's saying is people in stem tend to be higher class, so they have more time to focus on studying? Or that their parents are pushing them into it or they're focused on career prospects than anything. I'm not him though just a guess.

Undergrad = 4-5 years
Postgrad = after that

Good point. A lot of so called "communist" uni students haven't read Marx, they just hear communism is radical or socialism will give them free college or associate it with like punk shows and stuff.

What the fuck is undergrad
Stop speaking in tongues you fucking anglo

No, thats fucking retarded. Just like any field the vast majority of stem people just get either a bachelor or master degree of 4 years. And the point about "their parents allow them to study" is retarded too because not everywhere in the world does an education cost the gdp of a small nation, in most places its either free or affordable.

just to save you from your histrionics:
bachelors = undergrad.
masters, phd = postgrad

undergrad is a bachelor's degree for most degrees, its the first years until you graduate. usually 3-4. how thick are you

chem undergrad here. most students STEM students are liberals or conservatives, but they're usually very open to talking about social problems (esp gays, immigration), which is how you can engage them in some slightly radical ideas. it just takes a bit of persistence and listening to bc they usually love /discourse/

Astrophysics here, I've not yet met a libertarian - mostly lukewarm socdems, but definitely predominantly leftist

Math/CS guy here. CS has a bit of lolberts, but I haven't met any. Just a few liberals. Math people are a bit more leftist for sure, but still liberal since it is the overton window or whatever.

I think a lot of lolberts like stem either because they're autistic, or it's because they fetishize "logic" and "objectivity" and thus want to be associated with all things "logical" and "objective" although in my experience those sorts of people don't necessarily succeed

Bachelors degrees take only 2 years if you do a university education and 4 if you do a trade-univiersity
Not everyone lives in your fucking country you cunt, dont expect us to know all your special snowflake terminology and school systems, and especially dont fucking project your retarded system and culture upon the rest of the world.

dude i think we live in the same country, and what i said perfectly fits within your definition. why are you so upset about agreeing? do u really want to waste leftypol kilobytes

In the US 2 years is an associates and 4 years is a bachelors, but in practice since most students have to do internships/work/have family bachelors take closer to 6.

But most STEM field majors I've met are pretty firmly liberal, if not outright left. I'm doing a genetics degree and there are not very many alt-right/race-realists because they don't last too long. Turns out blog posts misinterpreting data that "prove" races are discrete isn't very well accepted by people with PhDs in the field. Most of the Zig Forums austists are compsci majors.

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this

Problem is people become more right wing as they get older.

Why do you think so?

Sounds like you're calling the left a bunch of children.

Because university students should be the most left wing demographic. They have had the longest indoctrination period.
If we cant get the university students we will have no chance with the working classes.

old people are more conservative, not right wing.

From my perspective university students are children.
But that might just be me. I was fucking dumb and naive back then.

I was going to write conservative but I thought right wing would be more accurate.
It doesnt help that the meaning of left and right is breaking down.

We're you really dumb and naive or did you just change your opinion based on new data?

conservative and right are synonymous you retards. Unless you live in Russia or something.

Im sure its both.
But the biggest problem is that I left university thinking I knew a lot more than I actualy did.

The university doesnt have to teach you anything useful. They only need to make you think they taught you something useful. And how would a dumb kid be able to judge what is useful and what isnt?

Maybe in USA, but I doubt even there is trend of people thinking that more power private companies and corporations have and worse labour laws are, the better.

Then try to use classic definitions, newfaggot.

I meant the classical definitions are breaking down.
They dont apply universally any more.

this is how american redpilled by mainstream media looks like.
I'm from europe.

Most of the new people that showed up to the leftover trot orgs' meetings this year in NZ are disillusioned stem/IT/engineering proles and immigrants who are fucked off with being exploited by Microsoft and jammed between a super neoliberal tech industry and a state that doesn't like employing brown people.

A main gripe I hear is that they hate how they can't do fucking anything, because our "free market" accidentally created monopolies woops

*WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED SUCH TRAGEDY*

Based purely upon ethical reasoning free from dogma, why should they?

I think humans in general are children; this planet is a fucking sandpit.

Its just a different environment:

If you leave school at 16 chances are you will learn the value of self reliance quicker. Your role models will be self made people who obviously work hard for what they have (IE right wingers).
If you go to university you rely on other people for longer. Your parents are more willing/able to support you and your role models are university lecturers who are ideologically on the left.

I am talking about averages here.

What I'm asking though, is what ethical reasoning do you have that makes you understand that STEM students should be on the left? How do they benefit the left and why should they?

Electrical engineering student here.

The way I get people on our side is to tell them full automatization is gonna fuck us up if it's under capitalism and basically that automated luxury communism is our only way out.

If they're smart they'll agree with me.

necessarily succeed
i fetishize logic and objectivity and i'm a commie wtf are you talking about? most stem students in germany do it because their parents push them into stem because their parents are into stem themselves or because they think stem will always be in demand (which is true, although ai will decrease demand in general) or because stem provides a lot of career opportunities in big companies (and thus a slightly plannable future and social security) or simply because they are interested in a stem science. i don't see how a right wing "stem" student is different from a right wing "humanities" student anyway. over here most liberturd far right wing students are into either bwl/vwl (economics), law, history or engineering and that has mostly to do with the political views their parents held. bwl fags are kinda looked down upon by other students but they never notice it because they are so full of themselves.
also right wingers lie and use sophistry all the time, but math is completely logical and "objective".

For FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY COMMUNIST we'll need lot of scientists and engineers.

In the case the apocalypse hits, we'll also need lots of engineers. For electricity, telecommunication and all the technological stuff you'd like to have under an end of the world scenario. It'll be the only way to build communism from the ground up in my opinion. Small communities with sustentable sources of energy and a solid telecommunication network.

ok, show me some data then.

My experience is completely opposite - people tend to me more right wing while being supported by their parents because life seems easy and they think that they will be able to easily secure decent quality of life thanks to capitalism. When they start working and try to be self reliant, they tend to move more to the left.

Just remind them that, eventually, if the rich are allowed to stay in power, they can(and will) attempt more literal forms of brainwashing through more advanced technologies. Allowing few people to hold all that power while you serve as an ant is a spooky joke.

I'm a Chemistry doctoral student, and throughout my education I've only met something like 2 unironic libertarians.

This is true though; most of those who go on to study at graduate level are of the middle-classes. Oftentimes they have parents in the ideological professions, too.

Why would they want to become Communists?

I'm not quite so sure, the right seem to think the exact same thing, although they believe being independent makes you more right and living with your parents makes you lean left.

See

Oh sorry.
I wasnt saying they should be on the left ethically.
I was explaining why they are on the left.

Yeah this is a great argument against mass migration.
Automation will do the jobs nobody wants to do. Instead of importing Africans like some kind of perverse modernized version of the slave trade.

Most STEM people I know are center-left, except engineers. Not sure what you're smoking, OP. The scientific community is overwhelmingly environmentalist and dislikes the hostile anti-intellectualism of the right.

All the STEM people I know are on the left except for the Scientists, Technologists, Engineers and Mathematicians.

Most STEM are literally just higher paid proles who were too autistic to become another type of high paid proles. You could target them by targeting their material conditions like unpaid overtime and worker protections(specifically job protections). They mostly get shafted all the same but are comfortable enough not to care and meek enough to not speak out. Aside from those that do self study outside of their area of expertise most aren't familiar enough with philosophy to follow ethical arguments. Also, using a statistical evidence based argument would be better than moralizing or any ethical argument.
They are also more likely to have been fed a bullshit hyper capitalist dream about hard work and believe that their own success is a result of that (hard work in school, hard work for w/e shit company hired them afterwards), so don't try to attack this first because it will probably upset them personally.
These are just my thoughts as a STEM when I've tried to push my coworkers to be more radical.

Marx, Lenin and other Marxists have a lot of writing on science. I'd direct them to that kind of stuff.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/

alan badiou's works on materialist epistemology of science is probably a more proper example and would convert most stemlords.

I'm getting a associate after this summer. two years and you're telling me I could have a bachelors?

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link?

aye, if you graduated from the highest level highschool within my country, that is.