General thoughts on libsocs? Are they cool, “get in the way”, “reactionaries in disguise”? I just want some personal thoughts on the matter from various people on here
also I find that this spam is dumb as shit
General thoughts on libsocs? Are they cool, “get in the way”, “reactionaries in disguise”...
Connor Gomez
Jace Adams
If they don't perpetuate reactionary lies about 20th century socialism then they're cool.
Carter Brown
I am one of them
Robert Cruz
OP didn't mean liberal socialist
Carter Parker
They won't "get in the way" when we send them all to GULAG xD
Colton Lee
They mean well but their movements are easily co-opted and redirected back into supporting the bourgeois state.
Jace Miller
Basically these:
Ayden Flores
In history all they have done was get in the way of revolution and get beat by imperialists
Cooper King
I mean, I guess I can't speak for all of us, but I would just prefer a libertarian communist project. I would grudgingly accept an authoritarian one, and I don't have any illusions about the USSR, but I would just rather not do that.
Caleb Garcia
kek
Jayden Cox
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please.
Anthony Young
Libcoms do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Brody Barnes
libsoc is a mosaic of tendencies and ideas ranging from cool non ☭TANKIE☭s to basically the petit-bourgeois errors such as not acknowledging relations of production and falling into liberalism. I love some, hate some.
Henry Nguyen
This. Disagreeing with Stalin or Mao or whoever and debating it in good faith should be encouraged in leftist circles. But citing overt bourgeois propaganda or referring to it without any even attempt at citation is not arguing in good faith, its being a useful idiot. For example, debate over Kronstadt or Makhno is encouraged – even if there is disagreement over the imperialist influence on these events, it is certainly up for debate. Using numbers and info that are from The Gulag Archipelago or Black Book of Communism disqualifies you, saying that countries subject to imperialism are basically the same as imperialist countries because they both have cops disqualifies you.
Overall I really like and respect libcoms and libsocs provided they meet the above standard which is really just a requirement for any socialist to be taken seriously anyway.
The only anarchists I have actual beef with are "post-left" anarchists, I dont hate them on principle but outside of Zig Forums I have never met or seen any that werent massive pseudointellectual cunts preaching stupid fucking shit like personal revolution that was already theoretically disqualified as any kind of viable option in the 1840s. Basically just edgier fucking The Power of Now new-age yoga moms mocking the idea of revolution because "lol mass movement didnt work before so the solution is actually to do nothing except tiny acts of token resistance to make yourself feel better"
Leo Myers
Way too committed to democracy and liberalism to be effective. Also propaganda of the deed is retarded
Dominic Anderson
Read Marx
Carter Evans
What did you mean by this?
Connor Diaz
I think he's inferring that if you read Marx you'd be sure that no 'socialist' country in the 20th century was faithful to Marxism completely.
Thomas King
This.
Bentley Reed
I've read Marx, but semantics about the meaning of socialism gets so tiring. I believe there is some legitimacy to 20th century socialism and as a project it's something we can learn from and I'm glad that atleast it happened. So when I say that libcoms/libsocs are good people if they don't perpetuate reactionary lies about 20th century socialism I mean that they don't claim bullshit about muh 100 million.
Luke Ward
To be fair, to expect actual socialist countries to be "faithful" to an ideology, ignoring material conditions, is idealistic as fuck.
Mason Martin
I agree, but that's Zig Forums sometimes
Lincoln Perry
I really like their critiques, but when it reaches the point where you disavow any sort of mass action,, it becomes kinda pointless. Illegalism doesn't change anything!