15 years of hard labor for attempting to steal a propaganda poster

1. Allegedly tearing down a flag is not a serious "crime", let alone deserving of forced labour.
2. I was responding to OP's interrogation about the "Marxist" character of that decision.

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What a retard.

Tankies take his ridiculous ‘confession’ at face value even though North Korea has a documented history of extracting false confessions from foreigners, particularly Americans.

That's not the case this time, but even if? Like there is nothing bad in scaring americans away from a country. We should do like this everywhere in the world

either that or they are so incompetent they are going to be played by the CIA, which is clearly not true otherwise NK wouldn't exist at all

If he wasn't a set-up, then I don't think he deserved to be imprisoned (even though he wasn't tortured). Since he was adventurous and curious, I cant really blame him all that much for wanting to take a poster. Obviously, stealing a delicate propaganda poster is reprimandable, but I think that years of hard labor is a little overboard

making me think

North Korea has tried very very very hard to maintain a tourism industry with America despite the lack of diplomatic relations. This event completely ruined that.

Americans deserve to be punished.

Likely his punishment was to demonstrate zero tolerance towards Americans coming to the country to vandalize shit. On the con side, if you can even call it a con: a retarded teen does some hard time for doing retarded shit (Black men in America are fucking executed for literally nothing so NK is still less immoral here)
On the pro side: less retards coming to your country.
No loss, decent gain. Overall good policy.

Wrong, NK's tourism industry was completely done in with this. Try being an actual communist (or just a curious citizen) in America that wants to visit NK, this event has pretty much destroyed all of that. This is why NK's state media was absolutely silent about this event yet it was front-page news in America.

If anything this proves my point here:
It was a cia op to fuck NK turism industry, sabotage.

Debatable, American tourism to the DPRK would be fucking cancer in any large amounts, they're far too indoctrinated (they literally believe that the areas they're shown, grocery stores, food trucks, schools, gyms, etc are fake, 99% of Americans are worthless) to be de-spooked by a visit and would likely do a bunch of vandalism like the little fag in question.

American tourism to NK was largely actual communists and thrillseekers, not the highest quality people but ones that had money and wouldn't bitch and whine about the lack of McDonalds. These were people willing to get into NK through China and more or less doing all their foreign affairs through Sweden who has an embassy in Pyongyang. It wasn't much but it was good enough if you were a legit communist in America and wanted to see the other side of the Korean conflict. That's gone now because people are afraid of NK now, moreso than before.

yes, remember all those letters marx wrote to engels saying that if there's some wormy little american cunt doing dumb shit in a country they are at war with then you shouldn't use the opportunity to get back at them because that's bad morals?
obviously that means that it can't be marxism they're practicing

Ha. You lot are so ridiculous. Why on earth would you say this. Have you read the actual confession? It’s absolute nonsense.

You are so deep in liberal ideology it is almost funny.

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Not exactly pulling [CITATION NEEDED] here, but do you have any info on the people who did the tourism before and why they don't know? sounds interesting.

15 years hard labor for a stealing a small poster is the opposite of fair.

The best I have is this:

giantbomb.com/profile/drewbert/blog/photos-from-north-korea/93223/

This wasn't a very large industry but it did exist. One teenager's suicide largely ruined it, which is why I personally suspect most of this is a media manipulation campaign around a tragedy (one NK supposedly apologized for to the person's next of kin, but this is unconfirmed) more than any other type of conspiracy.

Neither does this, but ☭TANKIE☭s will defend it.
youtube.com/watch?v=jvDva0ro2WA

WOW. Having bodyguards. Fucking fascist.

there is an inherent dialetical relationship to this.
imagine if instead they just said "ah, sir, please put the poster back." and then let him go. what then would be the point in taking the poster in the first place?
the entire point of taking the poster, rationally, is to get away with an action that carries heavy penalty. remove the penalty and you remove the incentive to act in the first place. there is no longer any subversive element, instead of an authority relationship you have nothing. you float in the neoliberal void, vaguely battered by forces beyond your control but have no outlet, no authority against which to rebel.

he needed 15 years hard labour, and 15 years hard labour needed him.

Also why they don't now is for several reasons:

Overall this could have been handled better by NK's court system, but the media campaign against them it blatantly obvious.

Thanks zizek.

Reportedly abusing proles is definition of fascism.

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Being retard who forces people to do stupid things is also fascism.

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Was getting caught part of his plan?

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Fuck off, boomer, FBI, CIA, NSA, CNN, NBC whatever

do you even know how to watch their TV

Westerners need to understand the sense of respect

driving him to the chinese border and letting him walk into rural china would have been way funnier 2bh

Rural Chineses have enough problems to deal with, they don't need an unrespectful lazy westerner in their villages

No fucking shit their media is state run. But you used that term in such a manner that implies something like CNN or Fox news is not the mouth and anus of the American state either or that if it is state run is must be unreliable, and "private" entities are.

point is: NK's media was dead silent on the suicide, which indicates it was an accident and not in any way planned or celebrated. Whereas in America it was front page news because obviously the US government wants to prevent any Americans from trying to visit NK at all.

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weed is more expensive than a poster

For some reason people who support the DPRK literally cannot seem to do anything but screech at you about minor quibbles like that.

Less than 250$, nerd

you lot are not bullied enough

Do Tank1es understand Occam’s Razor?
One of two things happened here
1. The CIA and Otto’s local Methodist church recruited him to take a one week vacation to North Korea in order to steal a 45 by 60 cm propoganda poster (this is literally the DPRK’s explanation of events)
2. A thrill seeking college kid stole a poster on the second to last night of his trip to NK, and was subsequently forced to confess to ludicrous crimes and coconspirators (which is apparently standard procedure for misbehaving Westerners)

I am astounded that anyone could believe the official narrative.
Please wink if you are simply toeing the party line because you believe this was in the service of some greater good.

Perhaps they need to be consistent to justify that sentence, but that doesn’t explain the existence of the sentence in the first place.

The absolute state of liberals.

It's ok to admit that the DPRK has flaws and that sentencing a person to 15 years in a labour camp for stealing a poster is really fucked up, while still defending it against racist and imperialist propaganda. People are more likely to listen to you if you seem like an honest person who's able to admit when "your side" is wrong.

But why give him the 15 years sentence in the first place if not to scare away Americans? It doesn't make any sense to do that if you want American tourists to keep coming.

In my opinion, what is outrageous isn't the fact that he died. It's the sentence given to him that bothers me. DPRK's tourism industry would've been affected by that sentence alone, so why give him that in the first place?

Westerners that were imprisoned in North Korea and later released have attested to coerced confessions and recanted testimonies which were similar to Otto's.
The mass media has nothing to do with this.

Do you at least admit that the DPRK's account is bizarre and seems unlikely?

This is also imperialist propaganda, silly.

Weird, might be that there's a consistent effort to smear the dprk going on.

Nah, let's go with le occam's razor and believe in the american narrative.

Surprised that no-one's picked up on the idea that it's symbolic. One of the conclusions I've come to from watching and reading a fair bit of material about the DPRK is that the ruling propagandists fucking love symbolism. Jang Jin-Sung even goes so far as to openly produce an example from his history as a DPRK propagandist to illustrate this in Dear Leader. If you watch Moranbong Band videos you'll spot Unha missiles in the background. The fixation with missiles in DPRK media makes little sense until you click to the message that the missiles symbolize the ingenuity and strength of the Korean people working together under socialism.

So Otto Warmbier looks to have been held up as a symbol of the great enemy, the United States. The Korean people, great in their mercy and forgivefulness, invite this devil in to their land. This dishonest snake reacts by attempting to steal from his hosts. The court then uses him to demonstrate to the people that even the mighty US trembles before the DPRK.

That's my reading of the whole thing, anyway. I'm sure the resident autist will be along to try and have a fight with me over this. Whatever. If you think I'm wrong, so be it. I don't care.

You still haven't addressed that the DPRK's official account is nonsensical.

If NK accused him of being an actual spy, I might believe them. But there is no way that the methodist church is dispatching wealthy young Jewish kids to North Korea to collect posters in exchange for 10,000 dollars and a car.
The intellectual dishonesty surrounding this is incredible. Feels like I'm talking a fascist.

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Actually Christian churches are a major part of the CIA front in Korea, look it up. The CIA has always infiltrated religious organizations to do their bidding.

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He was american. That is reason enough.

The US imprisons more people than NK per capita.

It was of course his fake identity, he was a CIA agent. The DPRK doesn't have such a big foreign intelligence service to corroborate the story.

His real mission wasn't to steal the poster probably, he ended up being sold by his higher ups so they could pull off their speciality: Gargantuan psyops through mass media. The goal was to cause controversy and animosity against the DPRK during the final phases of their nuclear programme.
You're basically buying the complete story out of western media verbatin, which brings me to my next point.

Please use your funny memes correctly next time.

Same.

he came in as a tourist but acted as a tool for some really shitty provocation, agitated by his church
that's accurately describing him
why wouldn't they make it clear that americans shouldn't try to fuck with them?
also they'd have released him anyway if america paid for his stupid ass, and there's nothing wrong with that. they wouldn't consider doing so if it was for a few months or whatever you'd consider "fair".
so it was very much deserved
shouldn't have killed himself then, that's not on the DPRK that he's such a murrican soyboy that does dumb shit and can't handle the consequences

Okay.

Seriously this, I hope the DPRK keeps up these harsh punishments for arrogant tourists. In other countries it's a free-for-all for Americans to visit and fuck prostitutes, get drunk and cause a commotion, steal shit, and generally make an ass of themselves.

What you are describing is possible, but improbable. Like I said earlier, a simpler explanation is much more likely. There is no compelling reason to believe that he is not just some shithead American 21 year old who got caught with his pants down. I have met young Americans abroad, and this seems like just the sort of stunt they would pull.

You are obviously inflicted with a heavy dose of ideology. It seems to be interfering with your ability to perceive reality.

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Then why allow American tourists in the first place? The DPRK does it like everyone else does: for the money. North Korea could just choose to refuse American passports before they board their state owned airliners.

Because there's no problem if they know their place.

they're not anti-capitalist, they just don't put up with their dumb shit

dumb wordfilter

Says the liberal buying the american narrative.

Your "simple explanation" just happens to be what the western media describes, curiously enough. Plausible, but just as tenous since nobody knows the full picture of what really happened.

You seem to be accepting the american version as the one closer to the truth based only on how "weird" the CIA explanation sounds like, therefore making it less plausible, despite the gaps and discrepancies everpresent in this case, just like liberals think communism kills one trillion people and that's just le common sense, could it be this famous "pure ideology" a work? Who knows :^)

You can't ignore the political implications of this incident; at the time, NK was in the final stages of their nuclear programme and the US was getting pretty antsy in the area, even talking about a bloody nose attack.

outside of North Korea because North Korea's regime is merciless and cruel, just like the CIA wants them to think?

This post isn't relevant to OP's question. Wambier's was convicted of theft, not espionage. Ergo squabbling over his motivations is a derailment of the conversation. Stop replying.

t. concern troll

a retard attempting suicide is far more plausible than a CIA conspiracy

That's of little relevance since the US does not have any diplomatic relations with North Korea and already has a safety advisory against visiting North Korea through other means (China) because they already don't trust the DPRK not to harm Americans. The event wouldn't have pushed America into a retaliatory strike like another airliner hijacking would.

This is pure liberal ideology.

t. disruptive autist arguing for the sake of it.

get Wambier'd retard

Whatever, son.

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My simple explanation is a scenario which has played out repeatedly in the past few decades, including in capitalist countries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

Why is there so much resistance to the idea that this might also happen in the DPRK?

I accept your capitulation

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If that's what you want to claim, feel free.

He was jewish by the way. His involvement with a church is one of the many details within the DPRK narrative that doesn't make sense.

errytime

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Okay, if that's what makes you feel happy.

The DPRK claimed it was botulism. Get your story straight nerds.

Of course it was the godless commies of nORK korea lying, not the agent innocent tourist lying about his identity to authorities.

with gusto.

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fix'd
It'd been like this for several centuries and pretty common to get your missionaries in a country and use them to spread propaganda and justify later intervention

I'm sure you'll get over your anger that I won't argue with you soon.

True of course. But again, pretty much any religion can be used. Even Hare Krishna was used to infiltrate the USSR
nytimes.com/1983/07/31/world/soviet-says-hare-krishna-cloaks-hide-cia-daggers.html

Of course! He had to make it seem like the gov is watching you 24/7.

show some maturity and stop replying to him

This doesn't answer anons point though?
This is just senseless shit posting to try and skirt to point