Ending the Incel Meme

Okay.
I'm not sure how that is supposed to answer any of the questions in the OP.

It originated and spread from the core Capitalist countries. Large parts of it were developed strategically, deliberately and purposefully, with accompanying commodification: Dating Services and beauty products.
People are more alienated and less fulfilled sexually than ever: the number of virgins is recordhigh, and Japan and Korea are an advanced stage of this tendency, and the true reason is, those things are made to be hard to afford.
As I've said, beyond simply making romance and sex voluntarily

I'm not answering OP. I'm explaining to you how beauty, attractiveness and romance are commodified.

Most of the time it's irritating as fuck but some times it's hilarious. Discussing/debunking the pathologies/propaganda of pol can be useful. Think also of the lurkers, the occasional poltard who wonders in.

no, u

I'm not an Incel, actually, but I know my statistics.

Anyone can count to one. Stop bragging about it.

Woah, I have to admit that I'm beaten here. It's just impossible to object to you brilliantly ironic, and, more importantly, amazingly insightful and factual rebuttals of my points.

Uh… So what? Industrial unionism also spread from the most advanced capitalist countries in Europe. Does that somehow make it a ploy of capital?
Capitalism certainly found a way to accommodate that social change as it always do, but that doesn't mean the struggle for sexual liberation itself wasn't a legitimate grievance or a sincere commitment to the extension of the realm of freedom. Putting an end to the persecution of homosexuals also allowed capitalists to tap into a new market; does that means gay rights are wrong?
I'd like to see the data backing that claim.
And I think it's abundantly clear the issues these countries are faced with were not caused by "sexual liberation".
And what's "beyond" that?

Depends on how strictly you define market. No, we don't buy and sell girlfriends. But a lot of dating and impressing matches a logic of supply and demand. The most blatant example of this is Tinder, where people literally first supply themselves in the form of self-commodification ('selling' yourself as a product to a potential fling by marketing yourself with some good pics) in direct competition with other potential daters who are also offering themselves. Those that are too ugly (hence inferior produce) are mercilessly pushed to the bottom of the market.

Ofc a lot of love is much more spontaneous (and ofc Tinder is usually just for hook ups) but as a whole sexuality has become more competitive imo. Why?

A. Standards are becoming harsher due to porn and the idea that you need to have the best in your life or be a failure.
B. Technology like Tinder which eases finding potential partners making them compete
C. The awareness of the need for self-commodification leading to working out, pick up courses, whatever, itself sharpens the idea that you have to compete against others.

So yeah I'd definitely call a lot of the sexual sphere sort of a market.

Partially, I guess. Both can give rise to feelings of impotence and resentment so there is some overlap. Just don't overdo it.

Theoretically, possibly, due to higher standards and the ability to make choosing a partner solely about those standards. In such an environment more ugly and/or awkward guys don't make the cut and usually find someone in a less competitive environment (like a friend).

In earlier days rich males would have been married off but poor ugly guys would still be fukt

To a certain extent inferior produce is just doomed to low end rewards, now and then, to put it clinically. Sexual inequality will always exist where marriages aren't based on political or economic grounds.

Incel is literally just the problem of alienation and the effect of social status.

But, it is still an irrelevant subculture that mostly exist for hot takes and a mass murder every three years.

But no one will even try to resolve it anyway.

Not the left, who just got kool kids status and certainely won't invite losers at their table (even if they are just the slightly less dirty dorks, pecking order and all that).

Not the right, for whom they mostly exist as patreon paypig and excuses for "edgy" articles about redistribution of sex and other "we live in a society hot takes.

Not society, because no one gonna cares about low status men yesterday, today or tomorrow.

Not incels themselves, who only see ressentement and permanent self pity.

Complaining about incels one way or another is basically trying to figure how to avoid to get wet in a rain. The solution simply don't actually exist, because rewriting entire social order is out of reach, even for you utopian commies. Think about that again when actually influencing neurology in a controllable way.

Industrial Unionism spread from most progressive countries in Europe. It would be a bit suspicious, if something spreads from the leader of reaction, on the other hand.
livescience.com/13072-sex-stats-virgins-rise.html
washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/16/japan-has-a-worrying-number-of-virgins-government-finds/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3123376510fc
No, not by it. By sexual revolution.
I don't know. If sexual liberation happened already, what the sexual revolution was revolutionizing? A culture, a mainstream way sex culture, romance and family functions.

The problem is that men will give in to their desires to easily, which will elevate the status of attractive women and suppress the sexual expression of males, males need a gender consciousness in order to have solidarity in accordance to their suppression, that's why I promote fraternal homosexuality, it bonds men together and can even inspire love, which eliminates the sexual market value of pussy, since there are alternatives. I think this is why pediophilia and zoophilia seem to be more popular these days, they are exploutable seubjects, you can't rape a woman and get away with it. So the easiest ice to break is your bro, following rejection from females.

… Yes? Just like sexual liberation.
Like proletarian revolutions happening in backward shitholes like Russia?
Come on, don't be an hair-splitter. Sexual revolution and sexual liberation are essentially synonymous.
But questioning the social norms regulating romantic and sexual life has always been part and parcel of sexual liberation…

They're not describing a virginity epidemic, they're explaining how people today tend to remain virgins for longer than they used to — before actually having sex eventually. Incels are a tiny minority among people aged 25+.
They flat out state that "economic uncertainty" is the likely cause behind the reshaping of conceptions regarding sex and marriage in the developed world in general and rising virginity rates in Japan in particular, not sexual liberation.

Reminder: Not reading your own goddamn sources is Zig Forums-tier obfuscation and should be grounds for a well-deserved ban.

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Eh, maybe. I admit I don't know much about this issue but have an opinion. Just like everyone else here. At leas I know something about some other issues.

This is why leftist ideologes have always failed and will continue to faile. You alienate the very same underprivileged groups you claim to want to help the moment they say something you don't agree with.

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Zig Forums
Zig Forums, 10 minutes later

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btfo

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I hope you're not associating my views with Zig Forums. I rarely come here. With that said, if you're going to preach inclusion and defend every backwards culture around the globe, then don't be a hypocrite about it. I can think of a few violent, misogynistic ideologies that lefties love to coddle.

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Who are you trying to fool

why would leftists support radical islamic theocracies, what purpose would that serve?

If incel threads were at least slightly moderated they wouldn't be as garbage. This Swedish piece of shit troll has been taking conversations hostage forever so now the topic is forbidden. Ban shitheads like this and let reasonable people fucking talk.

Most lefty motives can boil down to undermining traditional Christian values.

Didn't Jesus say that all is one in the Lord, man, woman and child?
don't "conservatives" tell women to "get back into the kitchen"?
One is not like the other, evidently.

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just bump better threads if you're sick of these ones.

What are those "traditional Christian values" your ilk keep referring to? And how are those in fact different from say "traditional Islamic values", while we're at it?

I'm precisely not.

Stop replying to garbage.

And now I remember why I stopped coming here. This place is somehow even worse than Zig Forums

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What about you actually answer my incredibly simple question about Christian values?

That's actually a good idea. After a while, people will be tired of seeing the same old pseudoarguments spread over 250+ posts and might start to become reasonable.
In fact, I think a thread with "Ending the Incel Meme" as a title is good grounds to start experimenting with this way of dealing with the incel question. If a volunteer or BO could add a question mark at the end of it that would be perfect, but perfection is probably a spook anyway.

pic is something that really makes me think tbh 🤔🤔🤔

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This graph does not surprise me. There is no point in being partnered. Most women will want marriage or at least cohabitation. And once you allow a woman to live with you, it's common law. The law is extremely biased against men. Family court is ruthless towards men.

If I was Chad, I would just pump and dump. But since I'm not Chad, I have went volcel. Relationships are full of too much bullshit. And now with this #metoo bullshit, not even Chad is safe. This Chad frontman of a Canadian rock band has been accused of rape.

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Marriage is literally government-approved relationship statuses, you do not need it, do NOT get married unless you are a literal bootlicking cuck.

fuck off

virtue signalling cuck

Wow what kind of Marxism is this?

That could work if like sixty percent of guys were fem twinks. That also sounds like a nightmare if you really think about it.

Zig Forums
Zig Forums 10 minutes later

Don't pretend you didn't understand what I meant, you disingenuous piece of shit. Male proles are oppressed because they're proles, not because they're men.

Sex is not work or a commodity, so trying to use pseudo-Marxist rhetoric to prove that sex is somehow "inequally distributed" is mumbo-jumbo. Sex is a form of social bonding between humans. Substitute an inability to find a sexual partner with inability to find a ballroom dance partner, a party member in an MMO or a poker playmate and you'll see how stupid it sounds trying to frame it in Marxist terms.

Even if we ignore the above, incels are still not exploited by the "sexual free market" in the Marxist sense since they don't produce sexual value to be taken by Chads and Stacies. If anything it's incels who want to extract the sexual value of women while offering nothing in return.

They are. So is everything. We all live in a society under capitalism. Capitalism is the basis. That's a meaningless statement.

Again, everyone is alienated in capitalism. That's a feature of living in a stratified society. There's nothing immediately material that makes incels more alienated than anyone else - they don't have an unique relationship to the MoP, they're not a separate caste, they're just people who can't get laid. Alienation isn't when you feel bad.

Incels don't face persecution or discrimination, they aren't inequal under law, they aren't separated from the MoP any more than anyone else, they don't stand out in a crowd. They're hardly even a distinct group. Socialism isn't about appealing to individual marginalized groups either, that much could be gathered from all the anti-idpol talk around here. If you want to change society, participate in the class struggle.

Capitalist logic can only exist if applied to economics and as I've said above likening inability to get laid to the mechanics of economical exploitation is bogus. The goal of class struggle is to abolish exploitation, not getting a better job with a higher wage, so it cannot be achieved by an individual effort. The goal of incel struggle is getting laid, which is perfectly achievable by an individual.

If you want to end the incel question, work to further socialism. Don't waste our time demanding that we uniquely pander to a small minority or analyze your every fart from a Marxist standpoint.

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That wasn't immediately apparent in your post at all.

Tell that to men who get cleaned out in family court by some cunt ex-wife/baby mama.

It's like you white knight cucks think that kissing up to women is going to win you brownie points with your purple-haired feminist oneitis. Newsflash: She's getting dicked down by Chad and Chad gave her herpes.

Pic-related is your future if you refuse to swallow at least the red pill (preferably the black pill).

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I was responding to a guy claiming that "the law is extremely biased against men". My point was abundantly clear.

stop

you have been programmed to endure hyperheterosexual ambition, you can enjoy any kind of guy's affection with enough perseverance, although, back in Ancient Rome, most guys, as it pertained to homosexuality, were most attracted to boys between the ages of 11-14, but I dont think that this truly represents a naturist homosexual experience, since the "free men" of those days weren't allowed to be penetrated, so there was no adventure in that area, nowadays, anything goes, so, you could get fucked in the ass by chad if you wanted, remember, the male G-Spot is in the ass. Or is it your hand again, user?

Why would this be a nightmare? It would promote confidence in masculinity and homoeroticism, which will only promote solidarity for many brosocialists.

you know the meme i posted is the truth
good luck being cuckolded by Tyrone and having all your shit and kids taken from you. Women are not on our team. The working class is not a united force. Women will stab you in the back in order to get theirs.

Hello, I'm an incel scholar.
Maybe incels did that 5-7 years ago. They did when I used to browse /r9k/ before the okcupid inforgraphic meme took off. Now your top-tier incels are relying on research that some economics adjuncts do to make escape from their growing suspicion that they'll never get tenure. Get with the times.
The underlying assumption of the current incels ideology is an obsession with the looks meme. If you're talking about anything else, you're talking past them. Any other language that incels use is just a pretty gloss on the looks meme.

yeah because traditionally the people who hold all the power in family court are… the huge number of female judges and legislators

Reducing his argument down to "wahh wahh men are oppressed" sounds too similar to what (some) feminists think that all men either benefit from women's oppression or are complicit in it by virtue of being male. Your point was not clear.

male judges and legislators are white knight cucks. Rich powerful men want to monopolize the pussy for themselves. They want to fuck over the working man.

If I could shoot a white knight cuck judge and get away with it, you bet I would. The white knight cuckolds are an even bigger problem than women. Because women are powerless without white knights doing their bidding.

You can get "cucked" by another white guy just as easily. Black men have no social value to women in general, unless they are rich and can make up for their blackness. So they end up not getting married in the first place.

OHOHOHOH WHAAA WHO THE FUCK MADE THIS
=AHAHAHAHAH THIS FUCKING HILARIOUS==

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OP is engaging them on a completely wrong level. The real question is why they are feeling this way. Go right down to the basis of their ideology. It has nothing to do with a lack of sex, it's because they're alienated by capital. That's what they need to know, the rest is contingent.

Yeah I know white guys are probably more likely to cuck than black guys. The whole coal burner thing is a niche thing. Sometimes white women will fuck a black guy as a one-off as an experiment. The meme was created by another 4channer. Most likely because the creator knew that his meme would trigger a stronger emotional response on 4chan if the bull was black.

I didn't "reduce" anything; that's what his point boiled down to.
Not sure how you read that into my post. That being said, men in general did historically benefit from the specific oppression of women, they just did so on strongly unequal terms. Do all first-worlders benefit from the over-exploitation of third-worlders? Yes, they do — but the proletariat's share is nowhere as big as the bourgeoisie's.
Again, I'm not sure how you managed to read anything even remotely resembling that in my post.

If the problem with incels is all-pervasive "alienation", then why aren't more people incels?

I was watching this documentry about walruses once. There was a scene where the alpha walrus basically stole all the female walruses and there was a beta male walrsus that was frustrated and lonely while the alpha walrus basically had a harem of female walrus.

Then the beta walrus decided to kill the alpha walrus.

Basically what im saying here is that all wars and violence are caused by women because they deny men the sex.

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Most people aren't suffering from the brain damage caused by decades of exposure to anime.

anthropomorphizing projection

Because most beta males are willing to debase themselves and throw away whatever shred of dignity they have in order to get their dick wet. Including myself. That's how I got laid. I just can't do it anymore. It's tiring. I'm not a people person. I'm autistic. I'm just interested in physical intimacy. I felt emotionally attached to the only two serious girlfriends that I had and enjoyed cuddling with them. But I think it's natural to feel emotional towards someone you have sex with on a regular basis. But we didn't really have anything else of substance holding us together. All these normie couples are doing all this shit together. That's just not me. I don't have the desire to like spend an entire day, let alone a weekend with a girlfriend. I just wanna fuck, cuddle for awhile. Maybe watch some Netflix together. Maybe go out to dinner. That's it.

My sex life would be much easier if I was a woman. A man has to be Chad if he doesn't want to deal with the relationshit stuff.

toppiest of my keks, you deluded faggot

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It's absolutely true, but understandable from a basic material point of view. Women has to carry a nascent human being for 9 months in their belly, while men can run away to Tijuana, Mexico without suffering any physical handicap during that same timeframe.
Women care more in general about their offspring than men, and mothers tend to talk more to their children than fathers, which has the side effect of teaching human language to babies.
But of course you can find anecdotal evidence of moms who don't give a single shit about their kids and do horrible shit to them, but then psychopathic fathers exist too.

Maybe you should try to read Guy Debord. This guy wasn't Chad™ but a nerdy alcoholic college dropout weirdo and yet he managed to slay m4d pussy in Paris while cucking his wife thanks to advanced Hegelian dialectics bro.

To be very honest, I'm personally a shy skinny insecure guy, and while I lost my virginity pretty early and got a couple year-long relationship with another girl (thanks to my degenerate hobbies and cute face), my "intimate life" is still shit.
I think it's shit because I don't have much self-confidence and have trouble dealing with physical contact, and I wasn't confident at all until I found something to do with life, because I have been a NEET and sleeping on friends couchs for a year, and being NEET is being in hell in this postpostmodern capitalist world. Now that I have a medium-term goal in my life, I feel more at ease around people, and that includes girls.

We became possessed by the spectacular imaginary fabricated by fashion retailers and we are now unable to escape from it in this post-iPod world
NICK LAND AND GUY DEBORD WERE RIGHT

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Most people express their alienation in different ways. People shooting up their places of employment, for example, or the growing opioid epidemic. The whole dating/courtship system itself is a manifestation of the growing alienation between people. "Incels" are just one corny chunk of the whole shitty log of alienation.

Plenty of people are incels. Alt-right idiots, Islamists Jihadis, SJWs, anti-SJWs. These are all young people who feel alienated by society and misplace their efforts to fix it. Some people are more alienated than others.

I never complained about people not liking me. Where have I said that?
Chad doesn't have to put in a shred of effort and bitches are sucking his cock within 5 minutes of meeting him.
Women don't have to do shit. Cock is readily offered to them.
My post was literally
I'd be happy to be either Chad or Stacy. Preferably Stacy.

Incels Novels are either fat, ugly, socially retarded, or a mixture of the three.

Getting laid is pretty much the easiest thing ever especially if you aren't picky.

Incels are bitter losers and no economic system will ever improve their lot in life because the problem isnt women or "the system" it's them.

This is a fairly recent Western cultural development. "Baby talk" is not practiced in most of the world and kids learn language just as fine.

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You are living in a fantasy world.

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I forgot to add that the medium-term goal involves trading labour for a comfortable sum of monies, or as my buddy Marx likes to call it, crystallized labour

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incels dont feel entitled to your body. When you say something like that to an incel you are basically saying "accept that you are going to die alone" "you are less than, you are nothing, you are a defect" " you dont deserve a relationship or love or human interaction" while all women, even the ugly women will never settle for you.

If you want a woman, you have to put a mask on, you have to act like the confident asshole. Never be yourself. Men like videogames because they have to live life like a video game. Get the have your own place achievement, car achievement, good job achievement (looks like you failed the have a big dick achievement)

Women are massive liars for the most part. They are walking lies. Everything about them is a lie. The push up bra, the make up, the high heels, the hair extensions, spanxs, some of them even get plastic surgery. From the moment you interact with a woman as a man she is lying. Women dont want weak, emotional men, but men are human beings and do have emotions. But you arent allowed to show them because thats weak.
Oh, even the loser men who are incels arent allowed to show their emotions, their frustration at their lot in life, they are mocked, ridiculed, hated.

As a man you are expected to just go off into the corner without complaint, curl up and die.

How are men not killing more people is the question.

youtube.com/watch?v=-GfGxXGy5Bs

Chad here.

I have 2 girlfriend's. One has a peepee.

How did this happen?
I went to the gym and got a job.

It's not just a recent Western honkie fad, it actually hinders language development.

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It is easy. But you literally have to throw your dignity and pride out the window if you are not Chad. I want to be like this Chad rapper having groupie sluts begging to suck my cock. Signing my autograph on Stacy's tits. youtube.com/watch?v=fEwlCwQyO8Q I don't care for relationships. My last two girlfriends complained that I barely texted them and never talked on the phone. My last girlfriend said that I don't know what love is. I have autism. But I think that being autistic has black pilled me on humanity. Neurotypicals are blue pilled.

And Stacy has it even better than Chad. As a guy you're sticking your cock in a tight vagina. It's really not that big of a deal. My ex had a small tight vagina and it felt good. And even that is overhyped. The pleasure Stacy feels with all those big cocks slamming against her cervix and seeing her moan like crazy, it's out of this world. I envy my ex-girlfriend for taking my thick cock because I bet it felt a lot better for her.

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how hypocritical, liberal takes are hated but liberal sexual markets arn't? no wonder this place goes nowhere lmao

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It's easy to say that when people accept you.

Nigger you seriously need to disconnect yourself from the spectacle because you are detached from reality.

Not if you are not a piece of shit. You know… Someone with actual opinions, charm, humor, politeness, faithfulness, dependability.

I've heard of 10/10 guys not feeling anxious as well before dates. You are living in a fantasy world wherein you justify you being you; a piece of shit, that is.

If you are an asshole with women on dates that is the real yourself, you fucking idiot. You are "out there" not in your fantasy world.

You are certainly a lazy little complaining bitch, but emotional? LOL You have the emotional intelligence of a six years old.

Said no woman ever. Most chicks dig guys who can cry and express their emotions and shit, you utter moron.

This is not true. A jungle baby will start speaking as soon as an urban baby who has been baby talked to. Anthropologists will confirm this. You don't teach or force babies to start speaking, you "going down to their level" with baby speak is about you as a swell-headed parent ("look at me, I care!") and not about the baby, who will adapt to language if it experiences people speaking around it regularly. Linguists will confirm this.

Read a book, dingus.

Here's your problem. Do you also expect your doctor to randomly start begging for anal sex from time to time because you once saw it on Brazzers?

* I've never heard of even 10/10 guys not feeling anxious as well before dates.

I don't know, are you seriously arguing that this is the way americans date? Many people (men and women funnily enough) catfish as attractive scumbags and they still get mass inboxes full of thirsty men/women willing to throw away their dignity just to date them, if you can't see how this liberal mistake has been so catastrophic then you're really no better than the liberals on twitter imho

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I really get the feeling that you incel cucks confuse confidence, assertiveness, and just being a jerk, then take women that respond to jerks (making the same mistake you have) as some sort of indication that all women are scheming whores.

It really smacks of the sourest fucking grapes I've ever seen.

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You were photogenic before the gym and the job is a well paying respected one. You did not go from obese to 18% (looks fine with clothes on, a potato without) bf, you went from 12% (decent definition) to 9% (shredded) and you don't wprk in retail, you're a lawyer or some kind of professional.

lol jus b urself

That's a pretty superficial analysis.

Not sure why you're saying this since I agree. I believe you've misread my post; I'm saying "baby talk" is dumb.

There is no "incel ideology", it's simply reaction to low social status. If that's considered an ideology then every reflexive act that's exhibited by more than 1 person is also an "ideology".

Obviously not if you're some kind of pathetic incel.

oh, yes, sorry

How is this any different from libertarian arguments?