Why is ethno-nationalism wrong?

Why is ethno-nationalism wrong?

hard mode: stop saying 'race doesnt exist', it's about ethnicity and preservation of phenotypical features and cultures

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because race is a spook

by the way is anyone else disgusted by OP's image

LET THE STIRNERPOSTING COMMENCE

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ignore the meme flag

contemporary ethnonationalism is wrong in theory because it forcefully kicks people out of their homes, at leat the black nationalists want isolated, segregated communities in the same land as whites, as a means of self-determination from institutional racism, racist whites are barborous animals, thinking that they can send blacks on ships back to Africa, why don't ethnonationalists just buy some private land and not allow racial minorities onto it? Simple.

she probably fucks black guys

Why is ethno-nationalism right? Why are ethnicity and phenotypical features valuable?

And culture is formed by material conditions, not by waving flags.

you seriously think OP understood even a word of what you said?

Preservation of phenotypical features is not a valid justification for genocide and/or mass deportation.

Why the fuck do you care?

Bullshit. If you really cared about the degradation of culture, you'd be a leftist protesting capitalism. Capitalism has been the most culturally destructive force in history.

Because we must preserve the beauty of peoples, the diversity of the world. There's no reason to kill ethnicity, and it's only being imposed on white people anyway. You aren't telling the Japanese that they shouldn't be Japanese.

Because I want to preserve the beauty of my people. I don't understand your hate for Capitalism, when it has lifted billions out of poverty and continues to do so today.

If white people choose not to fuck other white peopole, that's on them, why don't you faggots understand this, already?

It's not just about race mixing. I don't think you understand how immigration works.

Hard mode: Define capitalism

It's not "wrong", it's useless. A meme dividing the international working class along arbitrary line when worldwide class unity is more needed than ever for facing the onslaught of globalized capitalism.

I do understand how immigration works, why don't you move to Scandanavia, the whitest place on earth?

GENOCIDE ALL THE NON GINGERS

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private ownership and the profit motive.

you are placing economic theory above ethnicity, which is foolish because it's about people who inhabit the area. the marxists want to destroy ethnic cultures.

good joke.

Pathetic dog whistle. Cultural diversity isn't predicated on racial segregation. 18th-century French peasants have virtually nothing in common with contemporary white Frenchmen.

how has private property and profit motives had a direct correlation to people being lifted out of poverty?

Scandanavia is statistically the whitest place on earth.

Yes, it's called historical materialism.
What the fuck are you even trying to say?
The only thing destroying culture right now is capitalism. Frankfurt School Marxists knew and cared more about European culture than your sorry lot ever will.

That's not true. Do you know what tradition and values are? Perhaps in a historical context, there are large differences but generally speaking the various cultures follow a line, hence the distinction.

Sweden is not the whitest place on earth. 20% of Sweden is non-white.

I never said "Sweden", I said Scandanavia, because the average population figures for that region concur it's supreme whiteness, the whitest individual country is Iceland, if that helps specify anything.

Why would I move to Iceland??? I want to preserve my own people. It's not just about 'white people', but all peoples.

why do mutts constantly attack other countries instead of self-criticising?


Who are "your" people?

I'm English.

Culture is created by material conditions. We place economic theory above ethnicity because one is a scientific theory and the other is a vague gut-feel.

Nah. You can keep your folk costumes, cossack dances and clogs. Who doesn't like clogs? On the other hand, using the extremely vague and subjective concept of ethnicity to segregate the proletariat won't fly.

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There's nothing vague about ethnicity, but it is very vague to say 'Culture is created by material conditions', which is meaningless babble. People have a shared culture. What makes you think a Muslim from Oman is going to partake in various 'cossack dances' and what not? You are insane

Tell me what's so beautiful about your people that makes them stand out. To me it seems that people's phenotype is kind of arbitrary and boring, but let's hear it. What's so beautiful about those big white noses your people have?

Read Marx. He loved capitalism as a moment in history. The point is that we have to go beyond it. We can do better. It also keeps billions of people in poverty. It destroys all traces of genuine culture. How about we try and address that instead of jack off to how much better it is than feudalism?

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You sound like an utter mutt, mate. Check yourself.

To preserve this culture the retrospective people must remain a majority, or a newer culture will replace it. What is going on is an invasion. Nobody cares about small time immigration, it's about mass immigration being used deliberately to destroy IDENTITY.

Oooo now ya' done it laddie ya' gonna' catch me fist up the side ya' head ye' bastard

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If you take an economic structural analysis to this mass immigration probolem, you wilkl actually iodentify that all this is happening to lower wages and living conditions by promoting overpopulation and scarcity, this is all capitalisms fault, if the world didn't have superpowers and all wealth was more equally distributed, then we wouldn't see shit like this.

Your idea of identity is just individualistic nonsense spurred from entrenched capitalist propaganda. Now, do you understand what I am trying to convey to you?

youtube.com/watch?v=NirpXeuXlbU&t=2822s

I understand but I value individuality. Communism is slavery, although there are issues in present day Capitalism of course, it's still better than being sent to a gulag or forced to give your money to the commune.

Yes.
Race is a division and divisions must be abolished, especially those that are so deeply ingrained that they can't be simply solved by an egalitarian """""system"""" that treats everyone equally.

Wew lad. Next time just start your thread with this shit instead of concern trolling so we can just sage and hide and not waste our time.

youtube.com/watch?v=JApAQlANyzg

Identity is always is flux. You can't do shit about it. How about you acknowledge how arbitrary your specific identity is, and learn to appreciate the way cultures change? You can be a part of that process. Embrace your existence as a moment in history. Do your best to make a positive contribution to the new culture of the future.


Molymeme makes a good point. Racial identity is completely based on faith. Thanks for that.

He's probably talking about Marxism though. It doesn't make any sense, that. Marxism has a ready explanation for any question.

Ethno-nationalism posits working for the benefit of the chosen ethnicity. In same manner as any other nationalism this sets up different ethnic groups in competition with each other. As soon as one of those groups ends up at the bottom of the pile without visible chance of improvement, the action most to their immediate benefit is then to attack the other groups despite the risk of extermination. In an age of nuclear weaponry, this is an exceedingly bad situation. Eventually the planet is irradiated and ethno-nationalism ceases to be a relevant ideology.

Culture is not relative nor equal. We MUST preserve western culture at any cost, if we don't then it's downfall for humanity. Defend your moment in history … If you think this why don't you debate Molyneux on his show.

Who said anything about competition?

but what if another ethnicity is oppressing yours? do you fight back and defend your ethnicity or just let them destroy it

You have no idea what communism means. Start by reading Oscar Wilde's Soul of Man to get an idea of socialism's relation to individualism.

Why?

Who the fuck said anything about killing every white person and all people who are naturally blonde? There is no fucking "crisis" of whiteness being destroyed. There is no inherent value of any "race" not just "white" people. There will be blondes 100 years from now. Just because you saw a black guy with a white girl once does not mean a fucking genocide shit for brains.

Look at the demographic shift. London = 50% Non British.

It is the highest form of existence

Yeah. Our greatest enlightenment ideals are under threat by people like you.

I'm not an experienced public speaker. Wouldn't come off well.

If you value individuality, then why do you see yourself racially, and not as an individual?


HAHAHA, the molymeme himself.

You just have to have a sense of clarity which you posses as evident by your confident reply.

I see myself as an individual, who is part of my family, which is apart of my 'tribe', my 'nation' and so forth.

But consumerism isn't slavery? What about debt slavery?

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Those are arbitrary expansions of your identity, what makes you stop at nation, and not continue into world? Or species? Or organism? Or even class?

Why not all three?

If you're confident in your ideas, I see why not.

I prefer talking with white people, not this irish menace

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Because I was specifically asking about consumerism and debt slavery. Don't sidestep the issue.

and besides that. Communism encourages the absolute freedom of the working class. Free from the exploitation and artificial constraints of porky.

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In written form, sure, but I get flustered easily in conversation.

To me it's the other way around. My family, tribe, nation, are only important to me in as far as they uphold my individuality. I can imagine other collectives which would do a better job of upholding my individuality (i.e. international socialism).

To you they seem to be necessary components of your individual self-worth. You have an obligation to uphold them by nature of what you are. That's why you're spooked.


This guy gets it.

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Nothing wrong with consumerism.

Are you familiar with debating? We could debate on Discord in written form.

what is there to debate, you have come here looking for a fight, linking Molymeme, been BTFO.

What do you actually want? This board to bow down to the intellectualism of deporting niggers from your neighbourhood?

60 posts later…


LITERALLY

EVERY

TIME!

They just keep doing it!

Suddenly "culture" isn't that much of a concern anymore.

We're here, right now, publicly having a conversation. What could Discord possibly add to that?

Put away your consumer items.

I linked him in relation to Communism.

Discord would allow for longer, thought out responses that aren't restricted to the ebb and flow of an internet forum.

Stefan thinks socialism is when the gubbermint does stuff, he is not informed enough about leftism to have credit for any commentary on it.

If you literally didn't make everything from scratch then you support capitalism and consumer culture
fallacy

You're allowed to spend as much time as you want on your responses here. It's not like this board moves at any considerable pace.

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What is your issue with consumerism?

Regarding Molyneux, he has various videos on this particular topic that shot a vast degree of knowledge. He does hold the view that 'more government means more socialism' which is not the best position.

I don't have an issue with consuming items, I have an issue with equating this with justifying capitalism, when corporations produce everything, it is kinda hard not to consume their produce.

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Because consumerism bottles culture, it simplifies, and then it markets it to the masses for money. Your entire culture simply put up for sale in Walmart for the low cost of $5! Do you like the sound of Jazz but can't stand to listen about black people? Consumerism! Want to buy an identity and become part of the Marvel family!? Thank these corporations for letting you ever have this culture friend after all they're better than you.

That's why consumerism is bad, it destroys culture. It removes all the edges and details to make it more customer friendly. Looks like it's another "Zig Forums ends up defending culture against Zig Forums's shit taste" episode.

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You're not too bright, are you? It's not ONE neighbour, it's a group. Those Muhammed's are certainly going to want sharia law.

Destroys culture by spinning a bit of profit of it? I doubt that.

Unless you live in the south of England, muzzies aren't an issue, come up to the North where I am user, we are all white here.

Corporations globalise their reach, they do not appeal to a nation's or culture's interest, they make money for themselves, that's why leftists want more local representation in production, to make work more meaningful to their communities, you miss the point entirely, mass immigration is fine to you when it's a powerful corporation, but when it's individuals like you, you shriek in terror, you are becoming more shill than human, user, this is the posion of ideology.

This thread will go in a few days. Don't be foolish. It's not enough to discuss efficiently. As for your meme photo, consumerism is not the same as slave labour.

'Corporations do not appeal to interest but make money for themselves'. They make money BY appealing to interest. What is your issue here?

Identities are subjective, not arbitrary, arbritrary means you draw a line in the sand and say "ok we are drawing the line here just because I say this is important" whilst subjective means that its real and that you notice it, but that there is no intrinsic place to draw a line in the sand

first-world consumers benefit from third-world exploitation, that's why things are so cheap, that's why nationalised economies like marxist-leninist states find it difficult to afford resources for everyone.


Why haven't corporations ended poverty or sickness, since that is the world's major interest? What would be wrong in managing a corporations resources to solve problems like these?

meant for>>2520625

Pop music, Superhero movies, folk music, cultural holidays, the art house scene, cultural dress, TV, stuff like the emoji movie, the music industry, and the theatre to name a few all of which are disgusting or have been ruined because of consumerism.

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fuck this

meant for

there's developing nations for sure. enough with the global south is oppressed meme. that's not reality. there has been a net reduction in poverty, what are you talking about..?

there's nothing 'arbitrary' about a biological reality. the line in the sand is there to protect your sandcastle from the big bully who wants to kick it over, this isn't difficult to wrap your heard around. go to japan and tell them they don't exist, they're just 'arbitrary' and you'll get laughed at.

your solution? be detailed.

I never said its not biological nor arbitrary, only that it was subjective.

i dont understand your perspective.

Very simple. Abolish the profit motive. Paul Cockshott will give you the rough coordinates on how to do that.

Im defending the idea of nationalisms by stressing the identity part and therefore the subjective part, so they cant actually tell you not to be nationalist, nor can you tell them to be nationalist. You can try and convince them to care about white people and the white identity, and they can try to convince you to care, but thats ultimately all that can be done

My solution? Grants for the arts, remove business from the equation, and cultural traditions to be taught. If you don't remove business then the artist isn't in control anymore and thus it's less the expression of one person to convey a feeling it's instead designed by committee catchy enough to get in your head but with no substance. Remove the profit incentive and get back to what an artist is. Also because I'm a massive string instrument fag I demand teaching children at least one classical style of art or instrument to sate my hunger for sorrowful violin music

more government stolen money for failing, pretentious leftist students? no thank you.

so you draw the line arbitrarily, even according to your own definition.

and nationalistically

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You mean in the nation states founded by whites?
Like affirmative action and quotas?
Well we needed them as beasts of burden and the industrial revolution changed all that.
It's been tried in America and the feds are non too happy.

Scratch a Zig Forumsyp and a Boomer bleeds I guess.

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'no intrinsic line in the sand to draw' - why?
i don't 'perceive' things racially. i merely view mass immigration as invasion and believe that the west is a bastion for individuality. what you define as individual expression could differ from mine. i see your 'individualism' as a collective of leftist loonies who want radical freedom at the expense of soul and culture, where as mine has more to do with the rights of man to flourish and live true and prosperously.

ethno-nationalism does not necessitate oppression.

you can't care about capitalism and culture? nonsense

No not arbitrarily. Arbitrary is choosing to use the metre as a measurement standard, subjective is saying "blink 182 is a good bad and they are important to me". There is a difference between the two.

The rest of your post must be directed at someone else cos I just got here

For how long? South England was completely white 40 years ago.

arbitrary means it doesn't have to exist in this context. race is a biological reality. your taste is not the same as moral judgement.

Alright then how are you going to actually get culture not be the steaming pile of shit that is so far divorced from doing anything other than the safest possible bet for the corporate backers?

Russian culture cannot exist if Russia is inhabited by Tatars despite what propaganda posters show you. Let me take the secular approach and agree with you. These material conditions are genetics.

That's what you said, there is no intrinsic line in the sand to draw, you just said that identity is subjective and then said that subjective value has objective basis.
what claimn do you have for this? Like I said, mass immigration is causal of wealth being concentrated in white countries, so obviously, people of different lands would want to come here, and some are even sent to drive down wages, the corporations you defend are bringing in the niggers, and you blame the blacks, you are the epitome of a fool. So, what? You don't view things racially, but ethnically, right? Semantics, and anyway, I KNOW you are just afraid of the dark skin, whites coming into your country wouldn't bother you, that's the truth.

what you define as individual expression could differ from mine. i see your 'individualism' as a collective of leftist loonies who want radical freedom at the expense of soul and culture, where as mine has more to do with the rights of man to flourish and live true and prosperously.
that is why you will always be wrong, we are not subjects of higher orders, well, to you, you think everybody should be sucking the dicks of the capitalist oligarchy, instead of patting eachother o the back. You do not even believe in individuality, like you said, you think we should all be repressed. You are self-destructing, Zig Forumstard.
How do you get rid of the chimps and sandniggers without violence against them? I thought You believed in individual freedoms, wouldn't getting the gestapo to take away Jamal be oppressive?


The goodest goy who ever lived?


Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake, what is important to you isn't important to me, or most people, fuck off with your narcissistic fallacious bullshit.


Yeah, and what do you think caused a change? You think it was the cultural marxists or maybe the fact that London is the trade capital of Europe and attracts a lot of tourists and immigrants? All major cities are filled with diverse ethnicities, what do you want me to do about it. I already offered for you to move up here, if you don't and still complain about the chimps stabbing white boy with a shank then I can't help you, if you think white is right, then move.


it is an artificial disticntion to divide people by, eye colour is also a biological reality, but no one cares about that. Should we?

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through understanding, and not insularity.

Boi you are basing your own POV on feelings tho, in that you have the moral feeling that "if you cant provide an objective reason to value X I will simply choose no not value it". There is no null hypothesis on subjectivity, universalism is not the default position until proven otherwise, there is no default position, its a moral position given to you by the dominant post-christian morality. It isnt important to you, but it may be to others, and its not because you or right or they are wrong, its because you make a choice not to value it based on your own moral positions and how you determine what you should and shouldnt care for