Tfw you realise China is socialist

Personally, I know Chinese (a bit), but I'm not the same dollar guy you were asking.

you are cancer

This isn't entirely true. China is Socialist. The main Mode of Production is Socialism with the State holding the heights of the economy. The Private Sector rather big in the margain areas of the economy and in the special economic zones. The private sector is used for development of PRoduction forces, this is essential for building socialism and it is important to maintain the socialist leadership and the socialist state sectore that owns the height of the economy.

This is also partly true. While there are wealthy Capitalists inside the CPCh, they need to walk through a long process before becoming a Member, wich includes lectures on Marxism-Leninsm, Mao Zedong thought and Deng Xiaoping theory. You NEED to accept the Party line. Capitalist don't have the power in the CPCh, Workers have it.

Socialism wit Chinese Characteristics works for China, not state capitalism

The SASAC (China’s State Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, which answers directly to the State Council) has a state monopoly in every important industry sector — here are a few:

aerospace,airlines,aluminum,architecture & design,automotive,aviation,banking,chemicalscoal,cotton,electronics,engineering,heavy equipment,gold,grain,heavy machinery,intelligence services,iron,materials,metallurgy,mining,non ferrous metals,nuclear energy,ocean shipping,oil,pharmaceuticals,postal services,rail,salt,science and technology research,ship building,silk,steel,telecoms,travelutilities

Would love to get a source on this

This is true but I wouldn't say that China is dishonest, they also acknowledge the private sector, and the two systems existing in theyr country. I think it's a different analysis on Market Socialism.

Besides that China also has five year plans that aim at bettering the livelyhoods of the people,reducing pollution and economic growth. All Economic sectors need to fulfill those plans so private industries are required to meet those goals and those goals are not ones of a capitalistic nature. In addition to that there are Communist party cells in every private company with over 100 members.

So you see the socialist mode of prodoction, with the heights of the economy in the hands of the State, ruled by the proletariat, with a heavy regulated private sector that works for the goal of advanced socialism and bettering the lifes of the people.

mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/business/china-communist-party-foreign-businesses.html

nytimes.com/2017/10/23/world/asia/china-xi-business-entrepreneurs.html

nytimes.com/2018/03/19/business/economy/china-xi-jinping-liu-he.html

scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2141670/chinas-economy-isnt-opening-its-closing-and-its-hurting-itself

forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/07/25/xi-jinping-to-chinas-private-sector-go-home-the-belt-and-road-is-not-for-you/#1ede0adc17fb

greanvillepost.com/2015/08/20/the-myth-of-chinese-capitalism-2/

stalinsmoustache.org/2017/06/20/socialist-market-economy/

stalinsmoustache.org/2017/11/17/discovering-chinese-socialism-a-personal-account/

ft.com/content/6e012f42-1dae-11e8-aaca-4574d7dabfb6

cpim.org/content/road-socialism-china

chinareporting.blogspot.com/2009/11/class-nature-of-chinese-state-critique_26.html

marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/reasons-to-support-china/

marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/a-question-of-state-revolution-china-market-socialism/#more-6627

daily.jstor.org/communist-party-of-china/

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I don’t blame China. I blame the people running our country. I blame presidents, I blame representatives, I blame negotiators, we should have been able to do what they did. We didn’t do it; they did. And it’s the most lopsided set of trade rules, regulations that anybody has ever seen.

Your argument rests on a naive assumption of good faith when, as you yourself admit, ideological capitalism is alive and well in the PRC. The far left has been backstabbed far too many times by cult personalities pretending to represent our interests; saying you represent the workers doesn't make it true.
Is it impossible that the CPC will follow through on their claims? Maybe not. But it is still a possibility we should reasonably expect. Political climate tends to change when capitalism's productive early stages end and its societal damage becomes apparent. Capitalists will blame this on the purported Marxist ideology of the ruling party and do anything they can to maintain the status quo.

Revisionism, revisionism. None of you are free from revisionism.

are you blind? Because the pic I posted shows that Workers Retirees and Technical Staff have are the majority in the CPCh with Workes being most in numbers

I want that hat just to troll the libs.

You rely on the assumption that all 89,450,000 members of the CPC have equal power in the party. This is obviously not true.

Socialism is not just nationalization, China's economic system is capitalist because the main mode of production is production for exchange-value not use-value, it doesn't matter how big the private or public sector is because they both produce things for exchange-value i.e. commodity production, Capitalism is generalized commodity production and that's exactly what China has.

And what's to stop the capitalist from using their money to bribe state officials and lobby the same way the would in a capitalist state?

"Socialism" with Chinese Characteristics is not socialism by every definition of socialism that i know, at best it's a variation of the NEP, at worse it's just plain Capitalism. Also market socialism is an oxymoron.

What's the point of threads like this? Are people saying that, as a socialist, the Chinese system is an acceptable system of governance? Are they saying you would be happy if your state became a state governed using the current Chinese model?

China must take over the world. Nuke the USA, and then after China takes over the world, we can begin a less troublesome revolution.

The state decides what to produce. They might have to sell a product at its exchange value (especially if exporting stuff abroad, the same holds true for any socialist country), but production is still carried out at the conscious decision of state organs, hence the Five-Year Plans.

Xi Jinping stops them. China is cracking down heavily on Corruption. China implements strict governance of the party. Discipline for CPCh members is even stricter than law. Over 200.000 have been punished for violations

Marxist activists in china face the same oppression that liberal activists do.

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you mean ultra-leftist AKA cia-paid shills and naive utopians

So we should support the destruction of the CCP and give power to liberals because certain trve kvlt Maoists are being suppressed?

...

China has been reactionary since the Sino-Soviet split and their alliance with american imperialism.

They actively sabotaged the revolution in the third world by advocating splinting and sectarianism with fellow communists.(And snitching)

Maoism was a mistake.

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I fucking wish. I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Fucker should be roasted alive for desecrating his corpse like that. Literally one of the greatest men who ever lived and you insult him like that? Despicable.

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Looks like clickbait

Kinky, It's obvious that he is sexually aroused by him so I can't blame him.

yes and I'm British. Their infrastructure development is awesome

bullshit

Chinese economic model + European democracy = Socdem paradise. The EU should stop being such a fucking cuckfest and go for it.

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It is when you never bother coming up with alternatives.

China is a capitalist state and anyone who says otherwise is an illiterate retard. It's not a DotP in some kind of NEP phase but still on the "socialist path", like 1920's USSR. It's not a revisionist socialist state, like it could be argued most of the eastern bloc was between the 60's and 80's, or Cuba and DPRK are today. It's not "market socialist", like Yugoslavia or whatever. It's just an extra authoritarian kind of capitalism.

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watch russian Zig Forums youtube.com/watch?v=M-_mRC4lKTQ

it is socialist look

...

Socialism is when the state, ruled by the proletariat, controls the MoP and this is exactly whats happening in China

Even if that was definitions of socialism, it's not happening in china. Read some zizek and get off ideology, comrade.

Yes, or at least it is one common definition of one kind of socialism.

No. There are 100 billionaires in the NPC. To put it in perspective, there are 500 billionaires in the entire fucking country, and one fifth of them are members of the NPC. Xi Jinping himself is a hundred-millionaire. I know you're not stupid enough to actually believe the working class is the ruling class of China. Just stop pretending dude.

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You need to put this into perspective. Those a 100 Billionaires out of a 3000 member strong paliament. wich get checked uopon strictly get and lectured in Marxism. They went through a hard tedious phase before they could get a CPCh member. There are also priests in the NPC but you don'T see people calling it a theocracy. But there are no Capitalists inside the Politburo, the highest political instance in China, and there never will be

More perspective: there are 500 billionaires in China, that is 0.000036% of the population. Yet over 3% of the members of the NPC are billionaires. That's an insane overrepresentation. And remember that this is excluding millionaires and hundred-millionaires (of which there are without a doubt a higher number than billionaires).

stopped reading there

we can dream can't we

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i doubt it even happened tbh, its "north korean men can only wear kim jong un's hair sytle", tier

So basically commodity production i.e. capitalism is carried out at the conscious decision of state organs, which is the very definition of state capitalism. Congrats you just proved that China is state capitalism

This is partially true, yes you need to sell at the exchange-value when exporting, however when producing things for domestic use (or when trading with other socialist countries) it's generally done for use-value, the USSR for example had commodity production but it was not generalized and existed only on a small scale, China on the other hand has generalized commodity production which is why they're capitalist and the reason for this is because unlike the USSR China is an export dependent economy which explains why they have generalized production for exchange-value.

If China wants to return to socialism they must first get rid of this export dependency in their economy.

I'm interested, what would be considered as a violation? and can you give examples?
Also 200000 seems like a small number considering how large the CPC is.

whoops meant this reply for

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Why is Taiwan so much better for average people than China? Why did China kill several thousands peaceful demonstrator? Why dont China allow democracy. if socialism is so good people will vote for CCP anyway. Why dont China allow free speech if they have nothing to hide? Why so many students from mainland China cheat? Why there are almost no immigrants from free market capitalism countries to China, except a couple of teachers, but millions run from Chinese socialism?

it's five dimension Chess!

There is so much nonsense here I don't even know where to begin, so I will just comment couple of points.

I really doubt it, since majority of CPC members themselves have boner for the west where their children study, often life and where they invest and store their money
huffingtonpost.ca/2017/07/17/half-of-china-s-millionaires-want-to-emigrate-and-canada-s-thei_a_23034094/

Agree Mao is traitorous, reactionary peace of shit.

Yeah, alright gtfo with your shitty opinions

It's clear you don't even know what that term means

i'm sorry but
they have porkies and a market economy, they're capitalist in all but name.

A country can be Socialist while having porkies and a market economy. What matters is who owns the MoP and who decides over them and that is the Proletariat in China look

I'm still skeptical but I want to belieeeeve.

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I want to belive that comrade Xi will do it, but while chinese porkies are a thing, I just can't.

These mental gymnastics are amazing

Comrade lenin hat is on point with immortal science, as always.

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If Jinping actually stands by his word, well, that's fantastic. But the human rights abuses and power allotted to bourgs makes it hard to believe that the PRC represents the people.

thank you for this

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Thank you, this is good.

So, why is Russia 50% socialist and America is 0%, it is unclear.

based leninhatposter

Actual communist rebels in both the Philippines and India consider China an imperialist power

That's the joke

Epic

source: josemariasison.org/the-communist-party-of-the-philippines-on-maoism-new-democratic-revolution-china-the-current-world/

Found this in an interview with Prof. Jose Maria Sison, Founding Chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines.

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You'd think a communist country would at least put some effort into restructuring the welfare state that they murdered under Deng by this point.

Sorry kids, not buying it. Your attempts to defend them still strike me as desperate straw-clutching.

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No democracy -> no power to the people -> no equality. Workers do not own the means of production, very clearly, as we can see capitalist countries adore the fact they can exploit the pitiful conditions of inequality China's policy is perfect for.

There is hope, but they are definitely not there yet.

China is a degenrated workers state but you are an idiot.

READ BORDIGA

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China is Just Authoritarian SocDem
Albeit thats much better then NeoLib

I Know Batko is shit tier but seriously watch this
youtube.com/watch?v=M-_mRC4lKTQ

Barely even that, they don't have universal healthcare for example.

Here's another hot take from the liberals at /r/liberalpolitics.
This is what happens when you don't understand economics as a relation between forces of production, and think money equals wealth.
tl;dr: Chyna will starve without useless green paper

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Man it's really weird to hear Amerifats whine about other countries "printing money" like it's some kind of abnormal thing.

You joke but Ismail of /marx/ seems to believe "socialist capitalists" isn't actually a contradiction:

>>>/marx/8469
>The CPC argues that its specific degree of inequality (culminating in actual capitalists existing) is necessitated by the need to develop the productive forces of the country

Yes, western capitalists dont't understand how clever the Chinese are. China has effectively given them rope to hang.

Communism isn't inherently undemocratic, and requires as a necessity for the proletariat to have a say in the control of the means of production. This say can only be guaranteed via democratic process. Any system without democracy is either an oligarchy or dictatorship, and facist in both cases. To embrace full on authoritarian methods of control is to become that which we oppose.

If people like you actually engaged in thoughtful conversation without simply insulting those you disagree with, maybe you'd actually convince those who oppose you. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we should be opposed, and maybe we as a movement would achieve more united if people such as yourself actually acted with such intent. I seek to be convinced if I am wrong, and respect between opposing people would go a long way towards that.

I'll have a closer look into Bordiga, though from what I can see, it would seem his ideas are a part of the reason communism really unfortunately failed long-term, despite having a global span.

China is absolutely not imperialist, that's US propaganda
foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/02/tillerson-praises-monroe-doctrine-warns-latin-america-off-imperial-chinese-ambitions-mexico-south-america-nafta-diplomacy-trump-trade-venezuela-maduro/

Americans have no idea where money comes from or how it works. To them it does appear abnormal, because it isn't the government that creates wealth (in their minds), but business.

I love you. Let's get married.

Sorry I'm going to trust Jose Sison, the Naxals, and Chinese students more than I'm going to trust you or the CCP