Kyle Kulinski on "democratic socialism" and "social democracy" being conflated
Full tweet thread:
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It's in reference to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's interviews on Stephen Colbert and The View:
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Do you agree with Kyle?
Kyle Kulinski on "democratic socialism" and "social democracy" being conflated
Grayson Kelly
David Nelson
I've been confused by this since I started hanging around here.
Everyone who calls themselves a DemSoc is always just called a SocDem. While I don't care for either, if I had to choose one, it would make more sense to be a Democratic Socialist, since I feel like it would at least be easier to maintain the welfare state under that system, compared to Social Democracy.
I just began to figure that people are just shitting on demsocs by calling them socdems.
Matthew Myers
In theory Democratic Socialists are different from Social Democrats but in practice they both always do the same shit. Democratic Socialists perhaps go a little bit more for the jugular once they actually get power, but not by much
Robert Ramirez
I told you, demsocs are not socdems. Anyone who isn't socialist before they're a democrat isn't socialist.
Chase Perez
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Dylan Ortiz
In theory demsocs are for a communist mode of production, while socdems want to reform capitalism
With that said, the largest "socialist" party in my country classifies itself as both a demsoc and socdem one
Owen Barnes
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Cooper Young
In theory a demsoc would try to use democratic (bourgeois) means to achieve socialism and transcend capitalism. A sucdem only seeks to (in technocratic fashion) implement social measures under capitalism. Far as I can tell Bernie is a sucdem. Corbyn likely also, though he is coy about it. Some of his shadow cabinet, however, are very much demsocs.
Carson Phillips
Is there an agreed upon definition of "democratic socialist" here? I've heard it go two ways:
Strict reformists who pledge to only act within the confines of a bourgeois constitution's electoral system, but whose end goal / outlook is socialist
Socialists who feel the need to append their position with "democratic" to distance themselves from the ML regimes
Which one is it?
Robert James
Technically is the first one
Angel Scott
He is unironically correct. Being a crypto, he wisely obscures that the first person who conflated two terms was Karl Marx. I'm kind of surprised that Zig Forums is full of booklets who don't know that.
Oliver Morales
"Democratic socialism" is not a real tendency. It is an americanism.
Andrew Kelly
First one is the right one (Allende)
Second happens sometimes (Orwell)
But more than anything is socdems trying to pander to actual socialist (gorby, dubcek and sanders)
History is yet to judge Corbyn
Nicholas Parker
I'm surprised he knows the difference between the two. Pretty good for a liberal.
Joseph Martinez
Things not looking good for DemSocs. Is there an actual good example?
Zachary Johnson
Of all you listed there is just one demsoc.
Oliver Stewart
Orwell was a libertarian (libsoc)
Angel Bailey
it's silly to debate whether Democratic socialists are "true socialsits" or not, as it once again puts the success and failure of socialism down to the strength of ideology, and thus idealism. Yes, given a normal situation of global capitalism, they will be in the same vein as eurocommunists, social democrats, fabians and all the other reformist socialist parties.
We can't expect anyone, no matter how sincere in their radical ideological convictions, to impose socialism on society by sheer will power. Rather, it will take a representative of the working class encountering the certain material conditions that would prove its necessity. Faced with an ultimate collapse of the American empire, a recession, and a crisis of the falling rate of profit, those in power, given they are on the side of the working class, will be forced to come to socialism.
Dominic Peterson
demsoc is shit, of course it rapidly devolves into socdem
i haven't bothered to differentiate for a long time, even before coming here and i've gotten shit for the longest time
why others conflate it, i have no idea, probably simply because they're really confused about switching the place of two words changing the meaning
it is socialism, it's just a really shit form of socialism
Allende doesn't fit in this row, despite his flaws he was genuine and not a traitor on the payroll of the enemy
Alexander Walker
Basically. I don't think this disqualifies it though. In America you need to stress that you think "democracy is good" because they imagine socialists to be movie villains out to destroy everything nice in the world.
In Europe you have almost the opposite problem. They imagine socialists to be liberals who like poor people.
Mason Martin
Allende was literally friendly with Marxist-Leninists and the USSR
Blake Green
singapore performs superior to Scandinavian countries in every way
technocracy is the future
Zachary Ortiz
Singapore's system is specific to its city state and geographic status.
Sebastian Long
Sanders and Gorby are wrong. The others are actual DemSocs.
Liam Morgan
Allende is the only good one I know of. The others I listed are shit ones
Isaiah Moore
Succdem = keynesianism, capitalism with social programs to lube poors up for their fucking.
Demsoc = non-authoritarian state socialism. Basically what the USSR was promised to be but wasn't.
Ian Diaz
thats mostly due to the finance industry they have + low relative population
Evan Harris
Why does ANYONE like this guy? He's basically a mainstream Democrat who's just a little angrier at corporations. Even Amy Goodman is more radical than this dope.
Aiden Brown
Keep telling yourself that kid.
Elijah Roberts
you make it really hard for people not wanting to just shoot you in the face, out of sympathy, ending your own misery
Isaiah White
City state in a strategic location vs, actual countries in the artic
John Stewart
Mid to late 2000s new atheists are a big YouTube block and he is the representative for those that became bernie bros instead of skeptics or outright reactionaries