So what is wrong with using ascetic and social conserv.ative aesthetics to filter redliberals, sjw, hipsters and trend whores meanwhile giving some good old but long lost charm to Marxism? Nope. First I don't talk about military aesthetics or race, second it wouldn't even influence the actual ideas put on the table. It would completely filter all the bullshit tho. The only problem I could see is with the LGBT community (which I think of as a reactionary force, but doesn't matter) but even there not everyone of them is promiscuous as fuck. The other branch thar could get totally filtered is anarchists, but who gives a shit about them. If you look at every socialist state ever social conse.rvatism and asceticism were able to exist without interfering with private life or not allowing funny stuff at all. It would literally just be an aesthetics question.
Also social conse.rvativism at this point is everything short of zoophilia so it wouldn't even be really conservative as in maintaining property relationships as they are now. I feel like this would be a good answer to the incessant speed and bombardment of information, the ever changing and unnatural velocity at which taboos are broken, the constant risk of alienation and bastardization of concepts like social justice.
Especially on the last point I want to say that I'm a strong proponent of social justice, but not in the way people on the internet and america belive. SJW shouldn't be a bad word, but it is because SJW instead of fighting for actual social justice they fight over petty outrage culture bullshit.
I'm seriously curious on what's wrong with it to the point where it gets filtered on here. Racism and Sexism would be still unacceptable and would be dealt with in a more serious and effective manner than today.
I post this in good faith and expect the same from the answers.
We need more glorification of the working class and the intelligentsia, things like "you do a honest work, you are a friend"
Adam Torres
Note that I specifically said LGBT community not homosexuality or Queerism. Nothing against being gay. That said LGBT as an organization doesn't do shit to things that actually matter and acts a vehicle for liberalism to spread. LGBT community and organization are the poster boys for the great "conquests" of neoliberalism (see how every leader that is a cool kid needs to pose with drag queens and make an appearance at the gay pride). When you think about it LGBT is the perfect member of the neoliberal society. Now, I think true gays (not the one that got gay with alienation or because it was the cool thing to do) are totally able to act like normal couples and citizens. That said this is my experience with them, what LGBT platforms show is literally the opposite. True reactionaries and anti queers always show the photos of the few that act like actual animals and sex obsessed cum dumpsters, LGBT platforms show this kind of stuff too and wants you to like it. People literally think that all queers are walking biohazard because of their lifestyle, most of them are not like this imho but lgbt doesn't want you to see the normal ones
Absolutely this too
Charles Phillips
Up
Alexander Jackson
Don't use it to filter out people. We need all the allies we can get. You could use it to connect with people who think socialism is only "redliberals, sjw, hipsters and trend whores," but in that case be careful to not give off too much of a soviet totalitarian vibe. Americans are very allergic to that. Just make it clear that we are in support of genuine family values, comradery, and strong work ethic, and that we wish to create a society where these will proliferate without them being forced on anyone. That's brilliant.
Liam Thomas
I agree, but the aesthetics should also promote the beneficial parts of modernity - the triumph of technological progress for the betterment of all. These pics are great examples of that, IMO. Tractors for every farmer so that every farmer's life gets easier. Concrete solutions to real problems, faith in technology and modernity's ability to improve life. Socialism to make those solutions available to the largest number of people. Simple but genius, IMO. The Soviets really had their poster game down.
Not sure what the contemporary equivalent would be to that, though. Dental and medical care? Mass transit? Less work-hours to spend more time with family? Maybe computers, household appliances or something. Would be great to see Soviet-era aesthetics revived, IMO.
No we don't. We don't need guys like muke, contra or Shaun around. Or most twitter marxists.
Everything you said is right. Modern and clean offices, modern medicine, computers and green and efficient technology. The true point must be the rapresentation of these elements. Classic, clean, hard working, happy, healthy families sharing moments with the same style of old soviets. This means nothing to memey. The old drawing style still translates perfectly. Also yes, more concentration on the family. I feel like these days no one is stressing enough of much time capital is stealing from recreation and family time. Without sounding too "authoritarian" we should stress quality of life (family, good work, dignity, opportunity, health) over whatever we are stressing these days
There aren't blacks in my country, so yes. This said this is the exact reason why I didn't want disgusting anarchist pieces of shit. Because like in the lgbt case, you don't make an argument for them being able to not act like 50 cent or loud screaming monkeys. They are able to not be racist, caricatures of rappers, rapist and killers. But you show this? No. That's why I want to adopt Social conse.rvative aesthetics, because when you guys try to defend them without an ascetic outlook you end up glorifying aspects like rap and gangsta culture which deeply hurts the image of blacks.
Sebastian Nguyen
Yes dude We dont need any of them Plz post a link to your 100.000 subscriber chanel Or how people will not veiw ous as crazy cultist if we cover ourselves with pics from random shitholes
Dylan Gray
I know right blacks and gays should just shut up so we can look at really cool pictures of you toilet seats! btw, aesthetic is just another way of saying "wow this thing look really cool i want this becuase it looks so cool"
Michael Kelly
How are you ever going to build a political movement? Muke, Contra and Shaun are cringy liberals, but they're cringy liberals who introduce people to our cause, and will take our side when it comes down to it. That's what matters.
Good question. Thinking about it, this question seems to have bigger implications than just aesthetics. It gets right into the question of what socialism could provide for the common person. Mass-transit and computers are great. Some other suggestions to depict:
Jeremiah Reyes
I'd rather be seen as a crazy stalinist than someone who glorifies bourgeoisie society
Did I even say this? So you seriously belive the both gays and black are exactly like they rappresented in the media? Drink beach, it's a propaganda tool
No they don't. They introduce people to liberal ideas. Shaun justify everything unless is muh right, contra is a joke and a self harming sex obsessed hog with a boner with intersectionality who rolls with sjw and muke isn't right about a single thing in his life. They don't introduce shit. Now maybe in america where there will never be nothing resembling a workers movement in 100 years they are good because you can't use ex socialist states as an example. When it comes to the rest of the world using countries that existed for 80 years is already good rappresentation.
Note how you got no interest in the fact that I'm using what you'd call authoritarian aesthetics. Your only problem is that I want red not pink or fuxia. Fuck off
Angel Ramirez
Nobody asks to be born a certain way.
We all have our place and being.
Asher Howard
We all have our place and being….(in the police state.)
Evan Fisher
So could say the son of bill gates or elon musk No, you act like a functional member of societ or fuck off. Contra needs psychological help, not to be incited to continue being a certain way
Caleb Bell
I don't care about your aesthetics lol. You are just painfully wrong about shit. Also, can you elaborate on how Muke and Contra are liberals?
Brody Fisher
I said no fucking anarchist in this thread No, you
Kayden Rivera
are you referring to me or to somebody else?
Easton Hill
No, I'm speaking generally. People with problems or symptoms of economic oppression should be taken care of not glorified. Ex: gangsta culture. It's not good. They should strive to be good members of society and we should help them, not glorify them or incite them to act like animals
Noah Ward
Again, how are those two liberals?
Oliver Cooper
She says many times that there are problems with capitalism but she'd be happy with some reforms, called socialism and revolution scary, It's ok to hang out with right wing sjw as long as they are transexuals, keeps spouting the same bullshit points as you (everyone has a place in society man!), keeps pandering to liberals on Twitter, retweets their bullshit, belives in the trans exclusionary, intersectionalist … Seriously? Conflating leftypolto Nazbol, "Libertarian leninism", anti assad, anti north korea, supported the bombing of syria, muh ☭TANKIE☭s, muh zero books, Stalin was as bad as hitler… Jesus christ one could go on for hours with mume
Parker Bennett
Muke is a marxist. Contra is anti-capitalism and sympathizes with communist ideals. Calling them liberals is absurd.
I said that by conse.rvativism I didn't meant supportig the church or anything like that. Again, I'm conservative by modern american liberal standard, but not conservative from anyother standard imaginable.
Also I didn't even say support conservative ideas, but adopt a conservative face to filter idiots. Note how the people triggered by my OP are e-celeb dick riders, an anarchist and an illiterate faggot.
Christian Fisher
Stupid as fuck, the people that Pillaged the Winter Palace during the Winter Revolution were deemed traitors, and vandals, and some spent years in jail. This was the decree published by the Bolsheviks about the looting. Indeed Lenin critizised them really hard, this is well explained in "10 days that shock the world"
Destroying the old society does not mean destroying the heritage of humanity, and Lenin was quite clear about this, indeed during Lenin and Stalin times Soviet historians and archeologs developed plans to protect, monuments and art around the USSR.
Your position makes no sense, and it's in opposition with actual revolutionaries
No it helped keeping the revolution alive ,tho its true that those teens are pretty destructive
Noah Gutierrez
Maybe its possible that these people will reform over time. I think that the majority of the public is deeply turned off by the excessive lgbt shit, and most of them are only in the last year or so beginning to get politicised. We shouldn't miss the opportunity.
Certain aspects of soviet aesthetic would absolutely work, what everyone cringes over is 'radical' edgy liberals, antifa, idpol etc.. Soviet aesthetic without excessive military glorification
Chase Sullivan
all of politics can be formulated on this principle. We need to define our own people, the working class, and also the enemy, the bourgeoisie. According to Schmitt, the concept of the political is built on the distinction friend vs enemy, just as morality can be build on good vs bad or aesthetics can be built on ugly vs beautiful.
Jace Anderson
you really believe the struggles of the working class black community is represented in bourgeois media?
Andrew Jones
Funny thing that this thread exposed the liberal elements. OP is right tbh
Blake Cruz
I wouldn't go that far, let them stay, just don't built propaganda around them. They will change over time, as a truely popular workers movement emerges, glorifying the worker over all else. They will change over time, just to stay relevant.
The easiest thing in the world is to be right. Right now we need the propaganda/aesthetics to aid in building a new working class movement.
'Proletariat' is an economic class, but it is also identity. In the end, all politics is identity. The question is WHICH identity?
The idea should be that of Malcolm X, finding a new liberation through the lack of identity itself. X is more radical and more revolutionary than all ethnic kitch, folkloric traditions etc….
What we should aim to do is to reinvent conservatism, within the leftist framework. The broken promises of American conservatism, the American dream etc.. Of course, we will have to delete the reactionary elements within it
Jaxson Torres
Another big problem I see in the left is that people are generally pedantic, always wanting to be right, to beat each other in debate. Whilst debate is good within communists, we shouldn't have theoretical arguments in public. In public we should present a united front to the public, under the banner of some general workers movement. There is no reason at this point to call this communist, especially in the US. Slowly we will radicalise the leading figures of this movement. The aesthetic must be rooted in something which the working class strongly identify with, and not anything to do with sex politics etc… There must be a centralised leadership, within which debate and open exchange of ideas is encouraged, however this leadership should purge liberal and bourgeois elements in the movement
Julian Wilson
It may be true that the nuclear family is an invention of capitalism, but the people, ordinary workers, are ingrained with this idea of the American Dream. This includes American institutions such as family values etc…
Working class identity to mobilise the proletariat is not larping. What is definitely larping however, is pretending that the average worker gives a fuck about your 27 genders. We need propaganda tailored FOR the workers. They are not larping. They are simply living their lives, and they just need us to accentuate and celebrate certain aspects of their already existing lives.
Eli Miller
Another important idea to stress is that of the moral centre. Behind every rightist populism, proto-fascism, is the lowering of moral inhibitions, the promise of obscene enjoyment, which was not previously possible in polite society. I would not be shocked if this LGBT shit were to take a fascist turn in the end, in the end much of it is just about enjoyment. Today, we should be the party of the Moral Majority, the Silent Majority, the moral centre. We should reinvent the quaint american concept of family values, moralism etc…Not plain conservative moralism, but moralism with proletarian characteristic. Moralism with benefits the working class, a moralism which builds the enemy figure of the bourgeois capitalist. Basic moral rules- dont hoard wealth, dont extract surplus value, repay your debt to society, have solidarity with the weak etc…
OP here. Actually I belive that sex politics should have a subtle presence in propaganda. What I mean (and I'm ready to get called reactionary) is one of the main problems I have with the modern left: No fucking mention on how capitalism exploits sexuality. This is probalby me at my most conservative, but discussing sex work and mentioning anything other than "It shouldn't fucking exist" is liberalism. Propaganda should go against the perception of sexuality under capitalism, how degenerative and invasive hypersexualization is to a stable relationship. Modern liberals pride themself and call progressive what is at it's core not only decadency at its finest but also the perfect recipe that ruin relationships. I actually proposed normal looking and nuclear families in propaganda to go against the hypersexualization trend against capitalism.
Absolutley agree with you. I find aborrent the despise people on this board have for morals. Taking care of the weaker, helping the poors, liberating women, taking care of your community, having love for it and putting people before profit are absolutley moral things that play in our favor. It's a shame that people would rather be edgy with muh milkman memes
Trying to revive soviet aesthetics is a dead end. This art movement was a product f its own place and time, and people living in the west today have no organic connection to it. If you want to speak to people you have to do it in a (visual) language they understand. I could not tell you what exactly that language of our is, though, distasteful as this might be to contemplate, it might be more akin to contemporary advertising than retro propaganda.
As for the conservative social values, the same story applies. The "current year" meme is not all farce; people's values have shifted significantly in the last decades, and there is nothing to be gained going against purely cultural currents that don't tie in to class war.
Malcolm X talked about this being one of the problems of organising the black community, the influence of rampant sexuality, drugs, and drinking. Whatever you think of their politics, the NOI managed to clean up the hard drugs the FBI was pumping into poor black neighbourhoods.
However, I don't think cultural conservatism should just be copied or parroted. What the bolsheviks did was to reinvent family life as Proletarian family life. To reinvent family values as Proletarian family values. This is in clear opposition to the family values of Reagan, which were much more in line with the Corleone family values.
David Bennett
I really don't think they have. Why the revival of a new fascism? Why the new populist right? Why go back to the 'good old days' before the immigrants/jews/commies fucked everything up?
I think people today are developing a distaste for this contemporary advertising, associating it with the corporate neoliberal stance. Of course the workers of today's industrialised West no longer use hammers and sickles, but a revamping of the basic style I think is still possible. Focus on community, serving the weak, serving the historical goal of socialism
Carter Scott
Also, not to sound like an opportunist, but we really need to think which social groups, ethnicities, etc..REALLY exist in society. From my knowledge, the transgender community makes up a fraction of 1% of the public. Why, just weeks before the 2016 US election, a sudden focus on transgender toilets? Pure liberal opportunism.
There exist groups that actually exist in the US that maybe we have to target individually, with the ultimate goal of a pan-racial working class movement with solidarity between different social groups. For example in India, to organise a leftist working class movement, you would be foolish to ignore the particular struggle of the dalits. We should acknowledge that eventually the goal is unity, but unity doesn't appear out of nowhere. Sometimes you have to prioritize one struggle over another. This LGBT shit is absolutely played out in the US, it connects with petty-bourgeois liberals, not the real working class. However, there are different groups within the working class - the poor rural white farmers, the black communist, latin community etc..who today have their own particular struggles (police brutality, ICE raids et…) and they should be prioritised. Even Lenin saw the opportunity in prioritising the early black nationalist movement.
James Powell
Maybe because of, you know, the great recession? Same as last time - when the current order no longer delivers the material goods, the reactionaries perceive a need to go back to an imagined past. For a tank, you're giving way too much credit to the superstructure as causative.
Landon Smith
black community* I meant
Ian Ross
Maybe I'm wrong on the values of the people, but if there has been a shift in the values of the people in the last few decades, has this been universally a good thing?
By a conservative culture I didn't mean we should now begin to repress homosexuality. The reactionary elements of this culture must be shed, but what their propaganda depicts and promises, a stable family life, the younger generation doing better than the previous etc..there are very much the desires of the people today
Kevin Watson
That's what I meant with OP too.
Owen Phillips
Your angle isn't all bad, but we must be scrupulous in how precisely the formulate it. I agree that absent a small minority, most people want "a stable family life, the younger generation doing better than the previous [one]", and again for most people that desire will be for a stable family life of the traditional kind.
But we should also keep a pinpoint focus on why this is harder and harder for people to accomplish today. If people have a hard time to start a family today, the underlying cause will be material: housing is too expensive, both spouses have to work a job to maintain a family, children are put off until thirties for career and educational reasons (with attendant defects), and so on. People, especially the ones with more conservative tastes, have to be made to understand that it is the logic of capitalism that is frustrating their dreams, not the nefarious sjws etc. The change in social mores is not the enemy here, even if for the left it can become a bit of a distraction.
So I'm all for juxtaposing the traditional family against the demands of capital, but no so much in tying it into a narrative about societal trends more generally.
James Garcia
or course, the enemy is the system of capitalism, not any individual minority group. If the public doesn't understand this sooner rather than later, the fascist movement will grow stronger. Either way, they need an enemy, if it is not called capitalism, it will soon be called the jews/immigrants/communists etc..
Jack Sullivan
This is where you become a closet reactionary because you act like the only "normal" couples are the ones who you are accustomed to i.e heterosexual ones who do not need to put their sexuality as their primary identity. Burgeois lgbt movements are almost wholly contained in neoliberalism and can be thoroughly criticized in their approach, but your critique amounts to "they act too weird for me".
If you cannot ignore this while still being commited to calling out inadequacies in their praxis you are not fit for actually building communism. Communism will revolutionize every aspect of our lives, be it on the political, economical or social scale. It will revolutionize gender, the family, visual arts and the cities. We will do away with all of them in their current order and modernize them in our proletarian image.
is right when he asks the question of modern propaganda, of which we have none, and I could not agree more with on the ideas proposed. Build solidarity with stuff like this, not by shooing anyone who dares to discuss trans people.
Maybe instead of being a reactionary to liberals who are so invested in idealism try actually discussing materialist approaches to our common problems. It's laughable that you think that being inapproachable to discussing sexuality or the family will win you more people by filtering out the ones who are blinded by those.
Holy shit do not reinvent conservatism. As communists we do not need to hide behind such labels because communism is the negation of all ideologies. Communism is progressive and modernist and smashes all the remnants of the capitalist hegemony. There is nothing conservative about it.
Leo Reyes
They shouldn't. Sexuality is not an identity and shouldn't be put before class. The rest of your post is just idealistic rubbish
Henry Harris
damn this board is a hive of semi-reactionary sentiment and LARPing.
Levi Hill
this isn't even subtle anymore, Zig Forums is it because you lost your board?
Brody Hall
Yeah, putting up a couple of statues and putting photos of clean streets and classic families instead of doing Ikea ads and anarchist squatteville is so reactionary wow literally pinochet tier.
William Butler
imagine his response to LGBTDGFHDFHJDFH+++
Caleb Bell
Cointreaupoints is a liberal piss artist pushing the ideas of Epicurus, not Marx.
Joshua Young
I couldn't agree more. Glorification of the human body, working class, and having ideals of strength and beauty should not just be fascist things. The modern day leftist is a hipser SJW pussy, we need strong men fighting the revolution and beautiful women to tend to the hearth.
