So although I've seen some discussion about this, I have never yet found a good response to it. Avoiding arguments such as just saying "Stalin/Krushev/Gorvachov fucked up!" Wich I'm not saying is necessarily incorrect but I'm searching for a more indepth explanation
For exenple I think WW2 had a huge role in the fall of the USSR and this is something people generally do not talk about. The country did lost 25 million of it's best people among wich were possibly the most compromised Communists, also it destroyed their economy and made them take some steps back in terms of socialist construction, I think it also was a reason why the bureocracy grew soo large, as it was necessary to have a tight control of everything during the war years. Not to mention it made the country foucus for a long time in the warand latter in reconstruction instead of other matters that although were not that urgent would impact them in the long term, such as a lack of a more democratic system wich was going to be developed suring the last Stalin years, but that was sacrapped out in the Politburo for waht seemed most important matters, and after Stalin lost in the political arena it was never brought back.
Why so you think the USSR falied? Also posting some works/texts would be great
I’ve seen this claim made several times here. Does anybody have any sources for it?
Evan Morris
but that's the truth revisionists will blame the US for the USSR's collapse but the fact is that even the Nazis occupying enormous swathes of the USSR for years didn't make it collapse. traitors did
What you described is what I consider the main reason for the fall of the USSR. The post-Stalin revisionism can be attributed partly to both the loss of many young communists and the need to consolidate power in the years before and during WW2. I think the Stalin administration did most of what they could to defend the revolution in those difficult years, but the damage was done.
Brandon Adams
Traitors don't just grow on trees. There must've been something that gave rise to them.
Logan Perez
I know Kaganovich and Stalin came to some sort of consensus on that design but holy fuck it is ugly. They had an initial concept drawing that made it look like the venetian ducal palace in its edifice and it was fucking beautiful
After Stalin died the next leaders of the USSR stopped sending counterrevolutionaries to gulags, thus allowing corrupt oligarchs like Gorbachev and Putin to climb the social ladder and restore capitalism.
Noah Brooks
I don't think a good socialist society should be dependent on continous gulags, especially 35 years after the revolution. Obviously something had to be wrong for counterrevolutionaries to be so prevalent and so easily grab power in the first place.
Lincoln Johnson
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Dominic Walker
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Grayson Garcia
Well what was the conditions that made the USSR ripe to get ruined by revisionism? Your answer is way too simplistic and idealistic
Isaiah Scott
I suppose the ultimate reason for it was the failure of all the other revolutions in 1917-1923 and the USSR being isolated and hated by the whole west
Cameron Thomas
He wasn't a revisionist Stop being such a ArmChair and stop hating actual socialists who do things
Luis Mitchell
My question is, how did they fuck up? I require further explanation, on what they did and how it impacted on the downfall of the Socialist union
Oliver Wilson
What do you mean by "consolidate power"? Power struggles within the party?
Ayden Rogers
Stop shitposting this is a serious thread Also Krushev understanding of Marxism and communism is laughable you just have to read some of his texts for him Communism is order and nothing more
it's not idealist, it's fact most soviet citizens wanted to keep the ussr, most of them now miss it. no invading army touched soviet soil after ww2. so really the only reason it collapsed is because traitorous revisionists let it.
Jack Allen
unironically Stalin. not his policies personally (his domestic and economic policies were actually quite favorable), but he designed the USSR government so that anyone in his position would have total power. then when neoliberal imperialist dipshits like Krushchev and Gorbachev came along they were able to easily turn it into a corporate empire and bundle it and sell it to capitalism in quick succession.
Adrian Walker
I wonder how would world look like now if Stalin's proposal of defending csr against hitler wasn't cockblocked by liberals.
Yeah.. not the fact that socialism is economic suicide.. it was the 4 year war that they won thanks to unprecendented levels of free capitalist money
Ethan Gray
I have a few questions: If socialism is what led to the USSR fall, why did it not fall whilst it was more economically socialist, during the 40s or 50s? Why did it fail after years of introduction of procapitalist and market reforms(wich started in 1956) wich made it' economy similar to a capitalist economy (specially after 1985)? Why did have a biggest economic growth during this period of nearly total planning of the economy? Why did Russia suffered a terrible unprecented crisis after socialism was dismantled (with millions of excesive deaths, a drastic decrease of life expectancy, a terrible drop on the GDP…..)? Why have some parts of the USSR such as Ukraine, still after 30 years of capitalism have a lower GDP that under Socialism? Why do people still have after 30s years worse living standards that at the time? Why do most people think they lived better under socialism?
To add a bit more, if socialism is economic suicide:
How do you explain the USSR being the second fastests growing economy at it's time? How do you explain that from being a backwards country in 1917 with a level of developement at the time similar to Brazil it became just 30 years later into a huge world power and the first country in space?
How do you explain the fastest increase on life expectancy on history happening in Communist China?
How do you explain that China from being a country poorer than India in the 30s is now going to become the first world power?
How do you explain that despite having to pay 90% of the war reparations, being in a much destroyed state, and being from the start the less industrialized part the socialist GDR having a fastest economic growth than West Germany?
How do you explain the constant and sustained growth socialist countries have experienced in most occasions during history?
How do you explain now Cuba having a higest life expectancy than the US despite being a small country and being under a terrible blockade?
Absolute reset of society. Revolution. The first bourgeois in post-socialist country were mafia and opportunists from the party. Because Ukrainian liberal democracy never did proper dissident purges, and open mafia was able to operate. Dude, if ukraine would not have been developed by soviets, it would look like mexico. Problem is that old socialist architecture can not last forever and needs upkeep, which is in conflict with property managers' and owners' new cars. Because it was working regime. Not ancapistan it was before a war. Living there now is even worse because of war.
Landon Wright
What did Cornman fundamentally change about the soviet economy and political system after the death of Stalin? Oh right not that much
Joseph Diaz
Ok, I can agree with you ,but this does not explain why socialism is economic suicide, indeed this are arguments for it….
Bentley Anderson
it is the opposite. Socialism worked, reverting back to capitalism was suicide. But don't worry, I believe that capital in ukraine will eventually tickle down and everyone will live like americans do.
Revolution is reset of economy. More democratized economy = better live conditions for people. Planned economy is efficient. Ukrainska Soviet Republic looked much better even with high levels of corruption.
Samuel Bell
Naw. What they should have done is read Solzhenitsyn's fairytale book and make the things in there come true. That's how you btfo the counterrevolutionaries and save socialism.
Ryan Nguyen
Your arguments only give the idea of socialism more evidence, was that your aim?
Except that in the 1917 Revolution and until 1921 there was unceasing full out civil war with foreign intervention. Which coupled with horrid living standards prior to the revolution and practically no economy either, meant there was starvation and misery immediately afterward, yet despite this in less than 20 years the USSR was economically in the top 10 of the world, easily competing with the West in many areas and catching up in others. Meanwhile post-soviet Russia and Ukraine had a soft power transfer and a few moderate coup attempts. In 1991 they still had remaining economic power from the USSR, which, while not large, was enough to easily allow them to be top world countries, yet in spite of this, these post-soviet countries have only dropped in living condition and economy for the past 30 years. Which cannot occur in capitalism because according to the rules of capitalism they're not dissidents but business men. The Kulaks arose in the first few years, but while they were eliminated in less than a decade, the mafiosi and oligarchs only grow stronger.
Gavin Baker
He didn't design squat. Stalin did not have the power you claim he did. Like the US president his power was more dependent on the council of soviets and politburo (similar in action to cabinet and congress), and thus was limited.
literally read Furr.
Oliver Cox
No. The whole world hads its industry fucked bit Russia's oil, gold and grain was able to recover faster than other nations meaning they could export and dominate trade until the economy recovered. Thats part of the reason for there post war boom.
Luke Gray
bureaucrats that held more power than the soviets liquidized the state in order to profit
Jordan Wright
reactionaries and "free market economists" that took hold in the country after stalin died. i mean you knew the soviet union was fucked and going to collapse the moment it started fighting and arguing with china.
they tried to kiss imperialist ass and softened their stance on america which (besides pissing off real communist countries like china) made them weaker ideologically until eventually they succumbed to capitalism
Kruschev cut off ties with China because of their ACTUAL revisionism (New democracy) and their ties with the US
Mao was revisionist Nikita was not
Austin Myers
Another important question why despite being a much more fragile economic situtation and also against terrible attacks from imperialism the Cuban revolution was able to survive (even after having the terrible "special period" were for the first time since the 60s hunger returned to Cuba)? Why did they do different than saved them?
Well one major party was that Cuba allowed free emigration. Cuba developed a strong education system which meant it didn't lose professionals. It also allowed emigrants to maintain economic ties (remember, despite liberal myths not everyone leaves a socialist state is some ebic dissenter) with those still in Cuba. As such, its economy was steonger. Even during the special period, it could continue onwards. Also man the Cubans are inventive, they have trains running on tractor engine for peat's sake.
Charles Johnson
A few guesses: 1. Smaller area, easier for the party to stay in touch. 2. Haiti is right next door, everyone in Cuba understands that's what Cuba would be like in capitalism. 3. Enemy threat is obvious, everyone knows the USA is trying to wreck the country. Whereas in the USSR, the threat was rather distant, and cornman came up with his peaceful coexistence BS. 4. PCC is just smarter and better organized I guess.
