The influx of right libertardians on Zig Forums

We need to talk about this. Within the past month i've seen an influx of unapologetic capitalists on /b/ and heard about them posting on Zig Forums as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a popular movement but that it is being shilled by a dedicated few autists from /liberty/ or cuckchan/pol/ or even r/the_donald or some other subreddit. I usually post on /b/ and i've noticed that every time you even mention economic distribution or workers' rights, you'll immediately get called a commie by about 3-5 anonymous shills afterwards. This gives me the impression it might be a campaign. It's hard to argue against them as every time i am forced to deflect the notion that i am a communist or else they'll post strawmen continuously for hours straight in an argument and it's getting tiring for one or two anons to argue for such a long time against these faggots.if butterfly-poster is a crossposter to this board, she'd agree. They've even been arguing against Zig Forums fascists because fascists believe in government economic intervention meaning it's hard to use nationalist rhetoric against them as well. The question remains; how do we drive these faggots off our website? We must enforce an Zig Forums-specific, leftist monroe doctrine, or else our website might become another subreddit for r/the_donald users to crosspost on.

Attached: hyooman nachur.jpg (1024x569, 38.77K)

too late user

you could start by starting on the same page as everyone else
when they say capitalism, they mean voluntary trade
for them and for 99% of the people (who dont post here), capitalism and free market really just mean voluntary exchange (of anything)

so about the picture in your op, they would likely post a study about monkeys being taught to use currency and how monkeys perfectly adapted to trading with humans and each other, instead of hoarding food which can go bad, they started hoarding and exchanging human provided coins

and fence sitters and bystanders would therefore be convinced by them and not by you, that even monkeys are capitalists

why are you going on /b/ or Zig Forums in the first place?

Then you call them out on their simplistic just-so story, and explain that in the real world monkeys (and humans in the state of nature) provide for each other based on an implicit understanding of long term reciprocity, a fact that any thinking individual will instantly recognize as true. Thus communism is a much more natural expression of our nature than capitalism, since it relies on the same you provide for your peers–your peers provide back for you principle. After that you castigate them extensively for being brainlets and tell them to learn how to read.

...

Who cares

probably those adolescent users are elongated muskrat redditers and Felix Shillberg fans crowding in here to try and to be edgy or something.

ok, ill play the devil's advocate

why complicate the process of providing for someone else who will provide for you instead of just simply, directly, and more reliably just provide for yourself?

Definitely a winning strategy.

Attached: 1513059988795.png (539x488, 134.86K)

How can you reliably provide global telecommunication services to yourself without a social effort to construct and maintain the necessary infrastructure?

you can shoot the messenger all you want, for the largest majority of the population capitalism will always simply mean voluntary exchange, as i said no one but leftypol regulars sperg in real life about what is and isnt capitalism

you have to keep in mind that most of the people care much more about sports or fashion and have the exact same voting power as you do

Nothing good comes from groups of people larger than a few hundred tbh

guess ill keep being the devil's advocate

you are still not convincing to the large majority of people at all because they can always go "social effort doesnt exist" and "you cant hit a group with a stick, only individuals" and say how each and every individual of the social effort contractually and voluntarily agreed to do x for y and that his involvement ends with the exchange of x for y

seriously this shit works on people, you gotta come up with something much less tired and much more convincing

McFucking kill yourself

You shouldn't argue with them. You should lecture them on how stupid they are. That's the only language these fucks understand. If you're actually right, this means you've got the advantage. You just need to remember that it's all about authority for them, truth is only of importance in as far as it signals authority. Thus you have to repeatedly stress that you're smart and they're stupid, then they'll see the point.

You're underestimating the number of boomers.

Because humans are pack animals. We need each other in order to hunt, to set up camps, to protect ourselves, to care for our children, etc. Our ability to perform complex cooperative tasks is what made our species great.. That's why you want to have such lasting relations of reciprocity.

That's stupid as fuck. There's no one to enforce these contracts in the state of nature. They're completely meaningless.

Point out that you can't have capitalism without property and they'll understand.

lol
keep starting from the false premise, that'll show em!

here's a picture of the working class, retard
now tell me how many of them do you think read all 3 volumes of kapital

Attached: football crowd.jpg (1024x683, 235.58K)

Because nobody does, and almost nobody can. Everyone depends on everyone else's labour all the time. Unless you hunt your own food, make your own clothes and the fabric they're made of, build your own cottage and provide and create literally everything you're ever going to use by yourself, then you rely on someone else's labour. That's the strength of humanity - everyone combining forces to create technological marvels and enormous feats of engineering that nobody could ever have done by themselves. Scientific knowledge and technical expertise that could only be possible through the combined research of many, many generations of scientists and experts, spanning thousands of years into the past. That's not capitalism or socialism, that's just the basic structure of the society of the human species.

Capitalism is just one of several economic structures that organize such cooperation. Socialism is another.

Sounds like a supreme waste of time for everyone involved. No one on /b/ wants to have a discussion about politics or be lectured to about capitalism. If they did, they'd be on the boards designated for politics.

People on /b/ don't know what they want. If what you're saying is compelling enough they'll read it.

and what if they say that capitalism (which is just free trade to them) allows the benefits of what you are proposing already anyway?
they will simply say that all you have to do is obtain a marketable skill and you will be able to enjoy the market and free exchange with others through this market without any need for any further giving up of your labor or civil liberties to any collective

there is still zero reasons in their mind to abandon private property

Why are you so obsessed with shoving political propaganda into every board? You literally have a whole board to discuss leftist politics. /b/ is for random dumb shitposting. Zig Forums is for being a racist edgelord. keep your autistic blogposts where they belong.

this tbh

Which is why there is a thing called a "vanguard party".

Sure, I was just nitpicking.
Capitalism organizes cooperation well enough. That's not the issue with capitalism. But it has other systemic problems though:

1. Wastes a ridiculous amount of resources because production is geared towards peddling as much shit as possible, not towards lasting, sustainable usage (which would quickly saturate the markets). This also results in environmental damage, climate change, etc.

2. Creates a class of parasitic middle-men who hoard capital and think they're entitled to the sweat of our brow just because they hoard said capital.

3. Poses a threat to democracy since concentration of economic power results in a concentration of political power through bribery campaign donations, threats of outsourcing, etc. The U.S. is a good example of this.

4. Has periodic crises that fuck over the working class on a massive scale on a regular basis.

5. Encourages fucked up behavior and predatory practices in general.

Attached: the_role_of_the_vanguard_party_by_party9999999-dcfuf6t.png (686x915, 108.38K)

Also,

6. Encourages scientific research into venues that enable short-term profit for the corporate sphere - not necessarily research that would benefit our species in the long term.

That wasn't the point. You should stress this. They've moved the goalpost, and thereby implicitly accepted the argument you made. They proposed human nature to be capitalism and communism to go against it. You've shown the exact opposite, and they now concede it. That's a major victory on your part.
Then you can go on to just start naming the ways in which capitalism degrades human existence.


Because "random dumb shitposting" and "racist edgelord" evidently influences people's political views.

You legitimately believe this. Good job.

like eugenics?

but still there is a lot of disconnect between an average working class person and an average leftypol poster

they dont care, they see waste as a personal problem of the waster and propagandists on the other side will always say how more efficient producers would naturally produce better and more and come on top anyway
and how the biggest poluters are africans and chinese, so it doesnt matter how hard you regulate europe and north america

they are equally likely to think that environmentalism is just a russian geopolitical strategy to melt the northern ocean and make it navigable for the first time, allowing russia to take part in world trade for the first time because nato has russia landlocked (bosphorus and danish straits)
and how china, india and africa are going to pursue short term gains over environment no matter what you do at home

again, capitalism is just voluntary exchange and free trade to these people
meaning you can just avoid dealing with people you dont like
you dont think you are paid fairly? just find another employer, you are an independent private contractor after all :^)

income inequality is a result of ability inequality, to these people capitalism is perfectly meritocratic and you still didnt do anything to show them that it isnt

none of them ever saw any crisis and they will not take your word for it altho you are onto something here
maybe after a major war or crash they would listen to you, but not right now

average prole right now thinks this is a good thing, remember, darwinism is a good thing because every one of them thinks he is above average and he will eventually come out on top of darwinism

Like the T-34

Attached: Georgi_The_Destroyer_Zhukov.jpg (854x480 139 KB, 3.71M)

BURN, BABY, BURN

Gamergate didn't happen according to you? Endless shitposting about SJWs and then suddenly it exploded. People took that shit really seriously.

ok, bud, I think you're done embarrassing yourself for the day.

whose website? Surely this isn't Jim posting right now?

You don't believe it was about ethics in games journalism, right? Or do you think it was an organized harassment campaign by sexist pigs?

neolibs get the bullet too

You're essentially saying that we shouldn't explain or argue for our positions because people have preconceived notions. That's absurd and entirely unworkable.

What is it that you suggest we do?

I think it's mainly an intellectual exercise he's performing.

They're onto us.
>>>/b/8227814

Attached: 477dfff234a68a96979d5f844f7d000e3daf3c109f7d6d272f132ace03ad77ff-b.jpg (1173x667, 292.37K)

lel

I don't care. They might learn something.

explain shit to people in a way they can understand and relate, not in a way ancient philosopher from a black and white pictures age did with fat dusty books no one has an intention of reading

here's a step in the right direction for you:
you simply point out how a random instragram thot (and you have to use their terminology) makes more money than an average doctor or an engineer
this will get their attention
you point out that some random internet thot (and again, this is the hateful term, the epitome of everything they dont like) makes 10 times more than the guy who will cure cancer

they already sense that capitalism is rotten, but it has nothing to do with marx or environmentalism, but it literally has everything to do with instagram thots and this is exactly how you rile up almost all of them instantly

Either way, those groups have a tendency to be mentally impaired.

Tell them about how inheritance works and then show them some charts about the long-term trend of social mobility in the U.S. Said it before and I¨ll say it again, capitalism = meritocracy is a fucking meme and should be combated at every opportunity. Also:


…Implying they'd admit to being incompetent if you're talking to a low-income worker? Then ask why they're so incompetent. If the answer is "couldn't afford higher education", then again, socialism or at least SuccDem is the answer to their problems.


???

They weren't alive in 2007? I don't want 11 year-olds posting on /leftypol( tbh.


What the fuck am I reading.


If that's the case then it's more of a global, systemic problem, isn't it? This kind of counter-argument just plays back into the environmental argument against capitalism.


Nah. I work with the average prole. They're no different than everyone else when it comes to loathing predatory behavior unless you're strictly imagining talking to an American prole, in which case I don't fucking know because I don't understand the bizarre American mind

I agree. Best thing is to stress the cultural ills of capitalism. It's what they're most aware of.

The bizarre American mind to a great extent wishes to be left to its own devices away from others. Except liberals, they pry into everything and are generally irritating little shits. Kind of like you guys.

Then stop being world police.

Loads of people understand this isn't the case, though. The people who don't generally aren't people who actually know what they're talking about, and aren't actually talking about capitalism as a distinct system. Feudalism, pre-agricultural societies, etc. implied certain relationships with property in the same way that capitalism and socialism imply certain relations with property - if you don't discern anywhere along the way between these societies, you aren't really equipped to differentiate socialism from capitalism, either.

...

This site used to be owned by a right libertarian afaik. And now it's some hyper-reactionary boomer fascist (capitalist). Idgi

ye
honestly pisses me off when our retards try to explain capitalism to proles with marx instead of instagram thots

all you gotta do is show them how they can grind their spine and knees on a construction yard and make waaaaaaay less than a twitch stream girls with large breasts
or how they can literally cure cancer and make waaaaaaaaaay less than a random instagram thot on her trip to dubai to suck some arab cock

leftypol unironically thinks you should start with.. axiomatic vector analysis of hilbert space doctoral math when teaching math to 10 year old instead of starting with counting apples and getting them familiar with addition and subtraction

Attached: 1376778609048.jpg (720x720, 55.51K)

This is true tbh.


So is Zig Forums a honeypot or what

I truly wish I could just will it to happen. I have no interest in outsiders, but capitalism governance has its ass up its own urethra in its attempts to fold the population like a ten thousand year old japanese katana (sword for you uneducated folk). Liberals enable this behaviour, conservatives just let it happen/accept fat bank to look the other way as their ex countrykmen are more or less slaughtered wholesale, and we regular folk just want to be left in peace to have our families, our ideas, and just go about life with the remaining natural beauty that is American soil.
But they can't allow that, and liberals can't allow that, you fuckers can't allow that, and nobody wants any of it. We're then told that over in Israel or Iran or whatever fuckhole that some niggershit has a fuck up his ass against some shit I don't care about, so I gotta give a shit about that too apparently. I care for none of it and I would rather just be left alone, but nobody can do it. I among so many other, am the single most important motherfucker I guess, but I don't want any of it. So instead I guess I'll shitpost.

*crack*
Yeap.

Attached: ahhhh.webm (268x480, 299.53K)

Makes no fucking sense. Americans are loud, intrusive, and constantly pretend to be interested in each other. Europeans are honest and keep to themselves.


Please end your redditspacing. It's the sit out of me.

should be

Arguably.

Most of Marx is very accessible though. You don't even need to know algebra for most of it, just fractions. You betray your chauvinism against proles thinking they are this dumb. Moreover, many of these people who refuse to read Marx are not uneducated, they are just undisciplined, unserious people who are addicted to shitposting and memes. The obstacle is not "Marx is hard," the obstacle is, "BOOKS???? Booooorrring, I wanna play some Fortnite."

Maybe you're thinking of the tv, and what that shows you, cities and whatnot.
I guess there's probably those folk too, but they're tight up in their little hovels, alone out of necessity or want, I don't know that one too well.

You mean


like


this?

Wouldn't be able to tell from television. Characters on TV shows don't behave like normal human beings. I'm going by what people who've been to America have told me.

So basically you've shown us how to distribute the helicopter rides. Thanks, dumbass.

1

2

3

Oh shit it's the fucking defender of /b/. No one is actually raiding you. Calm down.

24

1

2

3

5

24

25

26

27

28

29

30

31

32

33

34

35

36

37

38

39

40

41

...

What's it called when I get to keep the product of my labor? When I don't have to share with anyone?

Anprim.

You don't need to read Marx to know that capitalism isn't merely exchanging things, that's libertarian propaganda.

low effort tbh

...

Other Zig Forums user here (I'm nazbol). I'd be willing to make a temporary alliance to purge the lolspergs

CAN'T MEME

Attached: 9ab0805dcd1bf7db8ab34b1ef207124b8c16ef9e4d8f1d1a544d46db20b2a1f3.png (1092x1080, 602.8K)

communism is garbage get over it

Pick one.

Sage negated from page 5. Get over it 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧globalists🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Attached: nazbol.jpg (800x435, 21.08K)

American imperialism existed way before the liberals you knew were around for fuck sake. Just look at Philippines.

youre the fucking retard faggot. i actually know some ppl that went from apolitical to aut-right precisely because they were immersed in the reactionnary shitposting that they claimed to be following 'causei ts funny' at first