Veterans

You might want to give ex officers some authority in strategizing a guerrilla war, if things came to that.

We're not in a war at the moment though. Yet these people are still pushed to the forefront.

Yeah and I don't think they should be pushed to the forefront in particular, the thing is I feel like this is just a reaction to the equally ridiculous Marcyite line that is popular on ☭TANKIE☭ twitter and to a lesser extent here.

They should be vetted thoroughly and kept an eye on constantly for security reasons, but I don't doubt that a lot of vets are disgusted by U.S. foreign policy and seek to end it. Considering how they're also often cast aside when they get home wrecked with PTSD, they can also be considered victims of American imperialism IMO.

They also have useful skills to pass on, and considering how much the Americans love their troops, it's also great optics. Makes no sense to turn away repentant vets unless for security reasons

They should be able to join, I mean if they just think about embracing socialism and joining an org, it's probably because they have fully rejected imperialism.

A revolution will never be successful without the military on board, absolutely they should be allowed to join but as others have said, thorough vetting is a necessity.

They're more able than the average leftist.

People are against Prysner because:
1. He was a literal torturer who worked with the CIA and nearly got an award for it. Why the fuck should we trust or forgive a guy like that? Just having him in the party ruins its appeal for many prospective members who have relatives who have been tortured by cops or troops.
2. Was in 10th mountain division (division specializing in anti-insurgency mountain warfare, PSYOPS) which coincidentally was the division of Rapone, Manning, and some other Woke Troops, which is very suspicious.
3. Doesn't even promote a coherent Marxist message. If you listen to the podcast, they don't analyze anything, they just act like they're on Troop Oprah. He also refuses to name names and expose war crimes.

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Idk who that guy is, but yeah ofc we should be wary of vets joining lefty orgs, it wouldn't be a bad idea checking their actions commited during their service.

Nvm the shitposing flag

the actual guys with their "boots on the ground" who actually shoot people are mostly right-wing violent nuts and probably can't join because they'll simply never change, or they'll fight and die for the capitalist and his promises of wealth and glory.
us military is overwhelmingly on the side of the people in all other areas, though. unfortunate that the most dangerous trained killers will probably not convert.

Well he seems sad about it(also when you are in the army shit happens)
Except if you live in the fairyland and think torture is always violent and bad
Good for us.
Maybe
(But if the party has appeal ,i dont think people will care)
America is as shitty as i expected
Those two are not mutualy exclusive
Yes battalions are close
One of them redpilled the others
Tho oportunism could exist
In general while i hate america and americans
I see no prpblem if they vote and support me.
when did communism became about morals btw

By them i mean army people

He literally co-writes a show on TeleSUR that does exactly that, it’s called The Empire Files.

wut? You're out your fucking mind.
I'd reverse your distinctions.

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wow who would have thought that soldiers would do soldier things

fuck off classcuck

No they don’t, they specialize in military intelligence, which is not anywhere close to the same thing as infiltration and espionage. Decoding captured documents and looking at satellite imagery does not prepare you for infiltrating enemy ranks.

I mean it’s good to be very suspicious and cautious of informants and the like but… you also really need to consider how fucking necessary military would actually be needed on our side in any imagined revolutionary situation.
And honestly a former PSYOPS trainer torturer sounds like an awesome utility. Unless him and Rapone have been inciting leftists to commit acts of violence and you got evidence of it or any at least eyewitness saying they did… what do you really got?

Where are you getting this from? They specialize in disseminating propaganda and trying to break people with annoying music.

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Even if that’s true it’s not the same thing as espionage.

Why are you talking out your ass then if you don't even know what psychological operations are?
What difference does it make if it's espionage or not to you?

For your education:
psywarrior.com/
psywarrior.com/psyhist.html
psywarrior.com/links.html

PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS: (DOD) Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign government, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives. Also called PSYOP. See also perception management.

PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS: (NATO) Planned psychological activities in peace and war directed to enemy, friendly, and neutral audiences in order to influence attitudes and behavior affecting the achievement of political and military objectives. They include strategic psychological activities, consolidation psychological operations and battlefield psychological activities.

PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS: (IADB) These operations include psychological warfare and, in addition, encompass those political, military, economic, and ideological actions planned and conducted to create in neutral or friendly foreign groups the emotions, attitudes, or behavior to support the achievement of national objectives.

PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE: (DOD, IADB) The planned use of propaganda and other psyche logical actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile foreign groups in such a way as to support the achievement of national objectives. See also psychological warfare consolidation.

PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE CONSOLIDATION: (DOD, IADB) Psychological warfare directed toward populations in friendly rear areas or in territory occupied by friendly military forces with the objective of facilitating military operations and promoting maximum cooperation among the civil populace. See also psychological warfare.

PERCEPTIONS MANAGEMENT: (DOD) Actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning; and to intelligence systems and leaders at all levels to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator's objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations. See also psychological operations.

There are weird fuckers on this board who consistently try to make imperialist troops sympathetic while also pushing other imperialist narratives. They've been here for a long time too, I'm beginning to suspect that they're legitimate agents of some disinfo program.

Because PSYOPS and espionage are totally different things, so citing that a unit specializes in PSYOPS doesn’t mean shit when we are talking about whether or not a person from that unit is a spy. It’s like saying that he had training as a tank gunner so it proves he’s a mole. They’re totally unrelated.

But a commonality of a psy-opper and a mole is lying to deceive the target.

Meme warfare is real.

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Where are you getting this from? Infantry divisions don't specialize in PSYOP. The US Army has entire battalions that specialize in PSYOP that attach themselves to deployed units.

They just think the word ‘Psyop’ sounds like a cool and scary MKULTRA word and let their minds and paranoia run wild. It’s understandable from a historical standpoint tho, but despite its scary sounding name, Psychological Operations can mean so many different things. Like we should defintely be skeptical of that guy, but he hasn’t even done anything yet or really achieved some position of power. I’d suggest actually reaching out to him maybe. I mean logically, why would they choose someone so open about his military past to be a mole?

First off, the 10th Mountain Division doesn’t do PSYOPS, they do military intelligence, which is totally different. Second, a soldier coming from a division that does military intelligence doesn’t mean HE was trained in that role, just like not every soldier from an armoured unit drives a tank.

I’m also particularly sceptical that Prysner is a spy because he is possibly one of the most vocal critics of American imperialism in the US right now. If he were a mole it would seem more advantageous to US interests for him to quietly report on leftist activists and the PSL, not loudly advertise US crimes.

I would never trust them. I would have than be an informant and nothing more. Give me all the info you've got that I may find useful and don't darken my doorstep again. But you guys just want to LARP anyways so there's probably no harm in it.

I didn't say he was. I've done no research on this 10th mountain division. I'm just correcting what was said about what Psy-ops are and the similarities between psy-ops and espionage.

But you guys must be real desperate for members or a bunch of LARPers if ex-millitary is your first go to.

What is controlled opposition? Take for example making someone an idolized figurehead in some field. Then bam he self sabotages himself and makes the whole field look like a joke. Besides all the spying and informing they can do before that time.

Also you know the CIA recruits people right out of army discharge right? You guys are just too hot to add to your LARP with the oooh we got one trained killer who used to be on the enemies team! Surely our revolution stands a chance now!

I think people like prysner are used to set the limits of discourse, so he'll hardly ever divulge the true machinations of foreign intervention; how it links to finance capital/imperialism and the like.

He's more the type to just denounce it for purely moral reasons, thinking that the US military can reform if we just show them their bad behavior. You get these people sent out to neuter any "radicalism" and have people preach reforms constantly. Effectively rendering any anti-imperialist struggle impotent.

No. They conduct infantry operations and occasionally participate in intelligence ops because of their specialized role as mountain fighters. The vast majority of people in the 10th Mountain are just infantrymen who can climb mountains.

Except he’s been at this for years and he hasn’t done any self sabotage bullshit, nor is there any evidence that he’s ever snitched on anybody.

Have you watched his show? It goes pretty in depth about the details of US imperialist activities in Syria, Venezuela, and elsewhere.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5p2Gwq42k&t=1090s

Now you’re just spewing shit without knowing what his actual positions are. He actively encourages soldiers to desert.

Doesn't abby profess that she's a radical centrist? Despite all that she's learned of the right's/imperialists rapacity?

twitter.com/abbymartin/status/945054571184889856?lang=en

However she may be talking about partisanship in regards to american circus politics and not left/right in general.

Because nobody he's involved with has probably ever done anything worth snitching on. Like I said: LARPing.

I'm saying if I was doing anything of the sort that could be informed upon, he's the type of person who would be immediately off my list of confidants.

wasn't hitler an intelligence agent before joining and taking over the german worker's party?

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I suppose I understand that. Suspicion and scrutiny is fine in this case, what I object to is instantly dismissing people as spies withou hard evidence.

He was tasked with monitoring them but it's not like they suddenly became reactionary, anti-communists after he got involved. The party was always a reactionary shithole.

Not that I’m aware of. He was a runner in WW1, and in a rear-echelon reserve unit too. He was basically a meat shield in the lowest rung of the German army.

I'd rather work with 3%ers to be honest.

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He worked in intelligence with the Reichswehr post-war.

Lmao why? Most of them are ex-mil too. With the added benefit of being openly reactionary and anti-communist.

twitter.com/MikePrysner/status/1027241208878313472

happy?

It's the one I pulled off the top of my head. I want proof you don't fuck with the government, society, etc. I definitely wouldn't fuck with civic-duty/reformists and the like. That was more in reference to combat training and what not. But I'd still just do my own research and do it by myself. To bring it more on on the topic of the Prysner, I don't think this guy is going to give you training. I never heard about him before this thread, looked him up and he's just a paid media personality. He's just cashing out on the anti-war vet thing until he can find his millionaire heiress to marry.

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I mean from his time in the army. He always talks in vague terms, "a general," "one of my friends," "one soldier," etc.

yeah he was clearly sent into the NSDAP to help them

We should remember, that Lenin encourages people to not resist getting drafted into the military before the revolution, and to radicalise people from inside, spread propaganda etc..

Except Russia in 1917 is not America in 2018.
No one gets drafted, Americans soldiers are just pussy ass cowards that don't want to work at mcdonald's or have the balls to be a criminal.
They choose to go there. It's easy to kill a man when you have superior equipment, more people and you get rewarded for it

This. Being in the Amerifat military isn't just a "job."

For people claiming to be socialists you seem to have very little sympathy or understanding for people from working class backgrounds who jump on what they are told is a way to escape poverty. No America doesn’t have conscription officially, but with the conditions it’s poor live in and the “benefits” advertised at them by the military, they might as well be conscripts. Next you’ll be saying that crackheads deserve to get their guts stomped by cops because they “made the choice” to be junkies.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Being a McDonald's worker is just as immoral as being a soldier. You are:

1. contributing to a capitalist mega-corporation with a publicly far-right board of directors that actively fights against unions, worker's rights, and general welfare
2. contributing to the expansion of factory farming
3. contributing to the poisoning of the poor and uneducated and causing them to develop diabetes, heart disease, etc. A Big Mac has been proven to contain sauces and additives that are just as addictive as cocaine and heroin.

In a future socialist society, non-worker-owned restaurants will be outlawed, and comprehensive nutrition and drug/organic chemistry classes will be mandatory in primary school.

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McDonald's employees don't get bennies and don't murder children and families of third world workers.

No it's not the same. McDonald employes don't force korean women into sexual slavery

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728808/Student-kept-sex-slave-violent-McDonald-s-worker-cook-clean-tried-force-prostitution-pay-gambling-debts.html

...

the PSL is such a farce
at this point they're no better than the official Communist Party USA
American Party of Labor is probably the best party in the US

lmao.
At least he got arrested. Contrary to american soldiers

I was in the military, stay mad, banhappy libtards. This place has become reddit.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

...

So, now you;re banning communists who oppose imperialism… just because they were in the US military and know how the assholes think? What's the logic here? Don't turn into Zig Forums, please.

Who said he was a communist?