How do we fellow socialists fight against dangerous mass movements such as the alt right, intersectionality, and liberalism? The way I see it, these organizations have unrealistic goals and exist by fostering resentment and making people feel out of control. These dangerous, utopian ideologies have only managed to exist so long on account of keeping people angry about certain issues while failing to address them. How do we reach out to the fanatics of mass movements before they do something violent or waste their whole lives writing zines and arguing about politics online?
How do we fellow socialists fight against dangerous mass movements such as the alt right, intersectionality...
Justin Baker
Tyler Adams
The right, the postmodernists, the liberals. They all have one thing in common.
They fear the materialist.
Juan Williams
Not dangerous
scepticism, which is hard to accept for every tranny or non ML who never lived under actual socialist states
Not a movement and it's a big problem today
Dylan Moore
For the left, the problems of the alt-right, intersectionality and liberalism for the left have nothing to do with utopianism in any traditional sense of the word. Intersectionality isn't per se an ideology either, nor is the alt-right.
Of course, you aren't a "fellow socialist" either, but what I'm trying to say is that you should write a more convincing OP if you want to false-flag or troll.
Owen Williams
I’m serious. Neo-fascism, critical race theory trying to obliterate racial categories or hierarchies, and lift the world out of poverty free market romanticism all have unrealistic goals and endure by making people feel frustrated and individually powerless outside of their contribution to the mass movement’s cause.
If we better understand the psychology of mass movements then we’re better prepared to undermine them
Levi Gutierrez
I think you're reversing cause and effect. People already feel powerless within an economic and political system that treats them as cheap, expendable and interchangeable. This is part of the appeal of ethnic nationalism: an imagined social existence and community due to the interpellated identity attributed to the individual (with little need to interrogate the identity critically), one whose struggle, however unrealistic it might be, is treated as legitimate by power.
Ethnic nationalism also lends moral and ethical legitimacy to petty struggles over money and power within the so-called professional class. They can cloak in left-ish language things like bitter academic in-fighting and grudges against others in the field. In this case, too, the ferocity of these battles is also economic in motivation: as funding is transferred from the liberal arts to both administrative costs and the sciences, academics and scholars in the liberal arts are pushed more and more into direct competition with one another over jobs, awards, and publishing opportunities.
Anthony Carter
Good analysis. I also like this:
samzdat.com
Robert Butler
you can't
identity politics is the most legitimately and authentically proletarian mass movement of our age
Owen Barnes
Literally >hello fellow leftists
Austin Martinez
it is though.
Aiden Baker
Firstly, it isn't even its own ideology, its a part of another ideology. Comparing it to liberalism shows a major misunderstanding of what it even is.
Secondly, what is actually the problem with intersectionality? Outside of liberal use of it, what's the problem with believing that being a part of two different minority groups probably manifests in different/worse social conditions?
Believing that a gay black person probably has a different situation generally than a straight black person seems kind of like common sense honestly.
inb4 "shut up liberal
John Parker
Intersectionality rejects the primacy of class and reduces class struggle to just another link in a chain of interlocked struggles like race and gender struggles. As such, it is anti-Marxist and anti-materialist. It isn't a "movement" but it's a theory that influences an ever increasing part of the liberal "left", and it is certainly a threat to the legitimate workers' movement.
also shut up liberal
Grayson Phillips
Perhaps liberals view class as just another link in the chain, but I've never met an actual leftist intersectionalist that views class as just another identity.
I feel like you've constructed a strawnan of intersectional leftists to knock down without ever actually knowing what they believe. You're criticism of intersectionality seems to just be a criticism of liberalism, which most intersectional leftists would almost certainly agree with.
Justin Clark
You don't need intersectionality if you're a Marxist. You already have material, scientific analysis of "domination dynamics" i.e. class relations. Intersectionality was invented in liberal feminist circles, it is the basis of modern idpol and it obfuscates class struggle always.
Aaron Ramirez
There is no such thing.
Logan Hughes
Do you think that there isn't a level of intersection between different types of oppression? Obviously they don't stack, being rich or male doesn't cancel out being black but it does give you a different type of oppression from people in different situations. Power in society isn't a sliding bar or a binary.
Jason Gonzalez
I dont know what my plan was trying to discuss this on leftypol lmao shame on me
Austin Green
based and redpilled
Bentley Ross
Class struggle is a machine gun with which to kill the bourgeoisie. Intersectionality is disassembling the machine gun, sharpening each individual gear and piece, and trying to give the bourgeoisie a death of a thousand cuts by pricking them.
Sure there are different kinds of oppression people experience on an individual level. All these types of oppression should be solved through class struggle and class solidarity. Intersectionality fractures the effort to change the WHOLE OF SOCIETY as a SYSTEM, not just a sum of miscroscopic personal experiences
James Rivera
Your metaphor makes no sense, please explain. I don't understand why all forms of oppression should be solved through class struggle. Obviously the bourgeois isn't the only type of person participating in racism and homophobia, Stalin and Castro sent persecuted gays. Even if your organization is solely class based, it is stupid to pretend that other forms of oppression don't exist or don't factor into a larger analysis of society. As for your point of a system vs sum of personal experiences, I don't understand why those things are exclusive.
Mason Kelly
Most of those forms of oppression are a direct result of capitalism, so successful attainment of the goals of the class struggle will negate most forms of oppression anyways.
You will never get rid of these things from the human psyche, so to argue that you need IdPol to fight against racist, homophobic communists and workers is absurd. A war on ideas is a losing war, and one that often mobilizes opposition more than attains its goals.
Owen Thompson
You're just proving my point here. "Class struggle doesn't solve everything", "base doesn't form the superstructure", next you'll say that we need to "rethink Marx" etc… The USSR and other Eastern Bloc nations, especially the GDR, were still miles ahead of Western states in gender liberation, achieving almost total gender egalitarianism and a neutral attitude to homosexuality (compared to the West where gays were jailed and slaughtered routinely). The metaphor is a very simple one, our only tool to change and better society is class struggle and you seek to fracture it based on individual feels.
Christopher Thomas
Of course the left needs to reckon with the fact that the USSR deliberately focused on racial tensions in the U.S. as propaganda, and to put the lie to the claim that the Western states were about freedom.
Jeremiah Ramirez
Has anybody read Hoffer?
Lucas Brown
I knew of him, and it's also why I was fairly sure you weren't a socialist, minus the "fellow socialist" giveaway.
I did follow your link, and the recommendations as expected more or less follow from liberalism ideologically at the time: focus on yourself and your personal goals (for a modern example of this advice and liberalism, see Peterson), join a single-issue based movement (as almost all movements are today, as the left is even deader than it was when he published The True Believer; this bit of advice is rather outdated), and join a union (which, as the article recognizes, is almost entirely outdated).
The disinterest with the cause of frustration belies the problem in this view: if one neglects the fundamental causes of such frustration, frustration continues to increase even if some aspects of it are addressed within single-issue movements and the like.
Charles Long
Stop.
Lucas Carter
...
Cameron Butler
more like straight white men and everybody else
you're just mad that you're a straight white men and can't be their leader.
get the fuck over it
Jaxon Jones
WDThe/pol/ypMBT?
Jack Adams
Into the gulag you go, fool.
Elijah Watson
you're outnumbered, honkey imperialist.
Brody King
I don't think you understand how much damage you've done to your own cause with this sort of rhetoric. Has the success of the #WalkAway movement and the reactionary right taught you nothing? Do you even realize how many millions of potential comrades you've alienated?
The right barely has to do anything to win against you. All they have to do is show people videos of masked men destroying personal property and beating up innocent people. All they have to do is show them your insane, hateful rhetoric. That's literally all they have to do. All you're doing is hanging yourself, and the right is laughing at you.
Tyler Jenkins
is this guy serious? they're walking away from liberalism, right? because they're fragile whites? LOL ok, great.
but really, i don't feel sorry for you imperialist piece of shit even as you try to play the victim here just like the capitalists and evangelicals do. all un-conscious white people are the same in that regard. you're the oppressor but you pretend you're the victim. it's fuckin pathetic, i wanna reach through the internet and make fun of your small penis
Caleb Wright
...
Benjamin Scott
You're proving my point and you don't even realize it. They're not walking away from liberalism. They're walking away from the left. They're walking away from you. They see your hate, your bile, and your hypocrisy, and it just doesn't jive with their values of love, acceptance, and compassion. People are disgusted with you.
You need a reality check. You need to be slapped across the face, brought back down to Earth, and humbled. You'll only continue losing the way you're going.
Daniel Parker
I dont think these people hold those types of values
Angel Johnson
Really makes me think
Zachary Martinez
washingtonpost.com
Not to imply this wasn't richly deserved, but these don't appear to be neonazi's or skinheads
Oliver Cruz
Hmmm….nice.
But yeah they deserved it.
Lincoln Martinez
Good riddance. You should leave too. By killing yourself
Samuel Jones
most post-modernists were materialists
Ryan Foster
lel
By properly addressing the problems that they have repeatedly failed to, and often made worse.
Nicholas Sanchez
woke af
Adrian Cruz
also, remember the pioneering psychologists like Spielrein, the first female psychoanalyst.
Grayson Price
that's a yikes from me fam
Sebastian Fisher
funny that communist leaders thought that you can get rid of any things from the human psyche
Sebastian Harris
You can. Even the most CASUAL look at history proves this. Why do we no longer believe the earth is the center of the solar system? Why do people believe private ownership is superior to feudal rights? Why do we no longer sacrifice people for the environment? Time marches on and destroys all beliefs that don't line up with reality. This is shown by taking even the tiniest peek outside of one's preconceptions.
"No"
Ryan Bailey
pretty badass pic OwO
John Bennett
And our pictures show precisely the location of the incredible find.
A number of compelling clues suggest the site is actually Khirbet Qana, a Jewish village which existed between the years of 323 BC and AD 324.
Excavations have revealed a network of tunnels used for Christian worship, marked with crosses and references to Kyrie Iesou, a Greek phrase meaning Lord Jesus.
There was also an altar and a shelf with the remains of a stone vessel, plus room for five more.
Six stone jars like this held the wine in the biblical account of the miracle.
Dr Tom McCollough, who is directing excavations at the site, said there were three other sites with a credible claim to being the Cana of scripture.
“But none has the ensemble of evidence that makes such a persuasive case for Khirbet Qana,” he said.
“We have uncovered a large Christian veneration cave complex that was used by Christian pilgrims who came to venerate the water-to-wine miracle.
“This complex was used at the beginning of the late fifth or early 6th Century and continued to be used by pilgrims into the 12th Century Crusader period.
“The pilgrim texts we have from this period that describe what pilgrims did and saw when they came to Cana of Galilee match very closely what we have exposed as the veneration complex.”
As part of his evidence, Dr McCollough points to the work of first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus.
He said: “His references to Cana align geographically with the location of Khirbet Qana and align logically with his movements.
“The reference to Cana in Josephus, the New Testament and in the rabbinic texts would argue the village was a Jewish village, near the Sea of Galilee and in the region of lower Galilee.
“Khirbet Qana fulfills all of these criteria.”