Do I have the right to defend my personal property with force under socialism?
Let's say I've put in a good few dozen hours of socially necessary labour time and I put in my labour vouchers to buy a TV. Some ratbag comes into the communal apartment I'm living in and tries to steal my TV from my room. Can I use lethal force to defend my personal property from him.
No, you must let yourself be stolen from.
Of course
could castle doctrine apply under socialism?
In reality you don't have personal property. They can take away your children, your house, your money, whatever they want…they have even ways to break your mind.
not if I shoot them bucko
Personal and private property divide are fucking mind breaking dumb.
So if I pay someone to build a house for me and lend the tools, suddenly my tools and my house become his?
Which puts you six feet under as well. I don't think that's what you were looking for.
It's works in general to explain leftism, stop making up lame scenarios to attack what's working well.
Yes.
i don't believe in personal property and would NEVER give legitimate authority to a government that does so. Land belongs to us all and it should be divided equally based on needs and requirements to make everyones life livable. I do not believe taking away human life over property or material goods is moral or ethical. Property should be only of the gov't.
Ffs all property which makes you a profit is private property. That fucking easy.
Ok so you don't mind sharing your car and toothbrush with everyone?
if the government issued it to me for my work or for my living standards, it should have issued one to you too. what is the problem? why do you want to take away what the gov't gave me so you can have doubles?
Brainlet detected.
So you are a troll.
???
Were you not aware that the idea of owning land is a fascist ideal? The native americans couldn't grasp the concept of owning land either. How can you own land anyways? if a family of 4 has to live in a small shithole 2 bedroom apartment while a single wealthy bachelor is living it up in a 4 bedroom house i find that is highly unbalanced and should be switched around. But we both know the bachelor wont give up his pad, it needs to be taken away.
trolling over what? it is an efficient system that produces little waste and ensures the populace some standard of living and maintaining their health.
So whats your specific ideology?
im cuban, bro
You realise it exists under english common law, right? That's where Marx tot it from…
In what way?
Per british common laws, the house is an immovable property thus private, while the tools are personal.
But the tools are the means of production.
so as a guy that has worked and cared about martial arts and self-defence
Why the fuck would you want to use LETHAL force against a guy that wants to steal your fucking tv?
You know you can kill people any time you want as a serial killer ,no need to wait a criminal
Also why would anyone steal under socialism?(except people with psycological problems)
Because it is my TV? And I doubt you know jack about self defense with that soyboy attitude.
No. They are tools.
Yea dude killing people is easy(like the videogames you play)
Still you havent answered anything
Without the tools, you cannot build the house. Full stop.
Who said killing people is easy? The fact it is hard is why robbers are dangerous.
That still doesn't make tools a MoP. A workshop that uses those tools in conjunction with social labor to produce goods is a MoP.
hahaha why are rightards so obsessed with the fantasy of killing trespassers
^ that post was actually for
Tools are means of production(not the ones you have in your house tho)
What
still the only reason to kill a robber is if he tries to kill you as well
This is why private property is bullshit, apparently, tools are not MoP so just in case, we can loot all the toolings, machines from factory so you can enjoy your private property being the empty factory ool
Dunno, we want to protect our properties?
kek
cant you just beat the shit out of a robber ?why kill him?
Cause you are an emasculated cuck working a shity job?
tools alone aren't MoP but they can be a part of a MoP, so if you try to take a machine from a factory you are compromising socialized production and will be dealt with accordingly by the workers
your gotcha is dumb
yikes
You realize that the property we're mostly concerned with is land, factories and such of which landlords and capitalists own a huge amount. No one gives a fuck about your house and your backyard. You are a small fish and property laws weren't even made with people like you in mind.
OK
I never got this meme, imagine being so personally attached to a piece of cloth because it was made by your mother or some bullshit, it's an arbitrary item with no use for being called only yours.
You are definitively allowed to kill thought.
Why are you condoning violence? If a person steals it is because they lack something- whether it is food or medicine, shelter, etc.. people steal to look out for themselves and continue this fight to keep living. Under a proper system there is no need to steal. In capitalism you will never attain what the next person has and that scarcity of resources makes it difficult to satisfy the wants of everyone over non essential goods, it creates thievery. In a communist system this would be unnecessary and unheard of except for the mentally ill. They need to be treated not bashed apart.
Seriously though, why is wanting to shoot trespassers the cornerstone of your political views? It's not wanting any improvements in quality of life in any way?
why would I critique you for that
Fuck you flower boy.
How the fuck do I know why someone is entering my house for? Could be a rapist or maybe just a thief. If I got a child or a woman in the house? He should just kill the fucker
i highly disagree! What about those folks, multimillionaires that live alone on enormous plots of lands. It's not a factory, it produces nothing.. its just land they own and live on. its UNNECESSARY. All land should belong to the government and be distributed appropriately. You dont get to keep "the family home" that your great great grandparents handed down to your parents and then you. We dont know if it's fair that you've have that advantage. All land should be appropriated and living space provided for by the gov't in order to ensure the fairness of the system. Let go of your ties to the land and property and have no qualms when you're informed that the area you're inhabitating is much too large for your needs but an acceptable replacement suitable to your needs is available.
True
Tho it whould be good to apprehend the thief until the police can send him to find help
the op said he wants to steal his tv
Back to Reddit.
THANK YOU! This guy gets it.
No. The good thing though is that you won't have to.
Why does this thread have the stench of OP falseflagging everywhere in it
Yes, you have a right to defend the things you bought with your labor.
The absolute state of this board.
Good personal property rights are the basis of socialism. We should assert a new conception of property against the dumb bourgeois concept. For this we must return to the earliest concept of it. Property is what's proper to you. This means the things you rely on in your day to day life. Your house, your bed, your television, your PC, your car, your bike, all that kind of stuff. Our point is then that under capitalism, most people don't even have that much. Their house is owned by a landlord, their car is rented, their PC runs on propriety software, etc. It's the complete denial of property in favor of tyranny. More radically, we should also count people's workplaces, their schools, their communities, local services and so on, as being among their property. That's the fullest expression of the idea of personal property.
Usually right-wing apologists don't have any response to this kind of reasoning. They can no longer claim to be defenders of the natural existence of property, because we've assumed that position more fully than they ever can.
you're a capitalist that feels bad about being a capitalist. Get off this board.
I don't think lethal force would be necessary but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to stop people from stealing your stuff.
What are you talking about Lad
because hurting someone over material goods is the lowest a person can go. Would you kill/injure someone over the theft of coffee beans? will you die without your tv/coffee beans, is life unbearable now? Yes this person needs to be caught but not killed/maimed. You cannot at all trade human life for an iphone or a refridgerator or car. It's all material shit.
Of course you can defend yourself, and you can do it in socialist states
Why do you make a leap from force to lethal force in this hypothetical? Even if we ignore all the complicating factors that lead to this scenario in a Socialist Society, why would you even think that you couldn't prevent an individual from stealing from you? You don't need to kill them, the home invasion meme is a borderline fascist paranoid american fantasy most of the time, but you wouldn't be punished for acting appropriately by preventing them from taking your TV. Sounds like you need to read more books if you're not trolling lad.
How did a legitimately valid question attract so many brainlets?
Note the inclusion of the words "I don't think lethal force would be necessary."
Otherwise, fully agreed.
The honest answer would be that this would be open to political contention just as it is now
One could easily imagine different nations within the international taking different attitudes towards it because of cultural differences
your property is protected, but not allowing you to shoot petty thieves. there won't be as much crime in communism anyway.
land is not personal property, brainlet
there's a difference between private (land, MoP) and personal (toothbrush) property, brainlet
stfu read books and lurk more, brainlet