Trump officials secretly met with Venezuelan officers to discuss overthrow of Maduro

we had this flag!

classic Zig Forums

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Damn u right, guess venezuela deserves to turn into another colombia

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classic Zig Forums

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Zig Forums

Whats wrong with this? Venezuela would likely love and welcome a coup at this point. The place is a HELLHOLE where people are starving and eating grass and rodents is a thing over there. Come on.

Classic anarkiddie

Go away retard

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( ( ( they ) ) ) are behind the coup faggot.

you don't actually believe this do you?

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I SAY NUKE 'EM WITH BURGER BOMBS WITH A SIDE OF FREEDOM FRIES!

If you guys had it your way America would end up like Venezuela, give or take 10 years down the road. And God forbid we the boisegladerzious rebelled against it.

Are you having a stroke user?

"Overthrow of Maduro"

Dubya isn't president anymore, you don't "overthrow" someone who has been danced around on strings in the first place. Speaking of which, when do we finally stop guarding the poppy fields?

thats the part where you started questioning his mental state?

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?

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Honestly I don't even know why Maduro is such a thorn in Trump's side. As far as Latin democracies go, it isn't as if Maduro's is the most corrupt– the point being that if he really cared about "protecting" democracy or whatever he'd have to invade most if not all of Latin America at this point. And I mean Hell, they aren't even actually socialist in any real way. It just feels like an excuse to have more pointless warfare and conflict at this point.

I mean, then again, I'll be honest I'm not super educated about this matter but it just seems like a crock of shit to me.

Okay gringo how about you stop typing shit and go for a jog or something

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I'm sorry señor, I'll go back to the burger farms

It’s lead by a socialist political party. While it’s not a socialist state it is definitely socialist oriented and anti-imperialist

Socialism is a process vro, it might take 5 years or 50, and right now it looks like venezuela's process is gonna take a while

Get banned you retard

Uma delicia!

The fuck did you smoke? That was a plane for 100 people.
Roughly 100 Venezuelans enter Peru every hour. It's meaningless.
Thanks to the government-imposed currency controls, producers said "fuck it" and now the shelves are empty again. Right now, the bolivar's value can't go down that much because it's not being used. Even looters are fucked.

Remember that Venezuela is 20 years into this process. At this rate, nobody reading this thread will still be alive by the time the country actually starts being socialist.

Roughly 100 Venezuelans enter Peru every half hour*
Forgot to correct that.

Chile has also been led by a "socialist political party" the last couple decades. Doesn't mean anything.

Ya because enlisting corrupt laissez faire generals worked so well in Chile

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The plan could have been just to get info out of them from the start. They were on the list and the US already knew their pasts. Also, Obama is not involved here.

Isn't the NLA/ELN the last revolutionary element in those parts these days?

Gusano detected

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And while Peru is a common destination for Venezuelans, a lot more have gone to Colombia, for obvious reasons.

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it's the price of freedom, satan

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You forgot your flag, comrade.

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I once told this to a friend and his response was

stop it im getting mad

of course the government has the right
who's to stop it?
the government even has the right to line them up in a back alley and get everyone shot who was involved in these terrorist plots
tell your friend he should be shot as well

And leftists say righties are boot-lickers.

Well if your goverment is not boot-licking any imperialist country or the international system
You are not a boot-licker for supporting YOUR country against imperialism

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while i'm a bit of a masochist i don't really see anything appealing in licking boots
you don't understand what bootlicking in that context even means, do you?
if it's the government elected by the people that is fighting a war against imperialist aggression and fascist terrorists sabotaging the economy, then that's not bootlicking
it's cheering on their boots handing out a well deserved ass kicking
and honestly they should stop the petty play and already shoot them up properly, hand out arms to organized workers militias and let them have at it with those criminals little shits
the bootlicking is on the other foot
it's those kissing ass for those who clinge to their power by resisting and sabotaging reform efforts that are in the interest of the people

Literally everyone has robbed the government in this way. Even the government-owned companies themselves. es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caso_PDVAL
People of all classes used to open shitloads of bank accounts in the mid-2000s to get subsidized dollars from CADIVI and sell them on the black market, multiplying their money in that way.

The 2nd image shows chick culling, and while it may be unethical, it's something that happens everywhere. Male chickens don't lay eggs, so they murder them for convenience. Some countries like Germany have tried to stop it dw.com/en/practice-of-killing-male-chicks-to-continue-german-parliament-decides/a-17030868 but there's no real law against it in Venezuela.

A few years ago when I was conservative, I would've dismissed suggestions the CIA wanted to overthrow the Venezuelan government as "conspiracy theories." But here they are, plotting with military officers.

Basically to any Zig Forumsyps reading this: you don't have to be a communist or accept the communist position, but if you want to understand what's going on in the world you could do much worse.

Maduro needs to go but not by foreign powers meddling, especially not America.

can someone post the infograph?

The one that's about 7 years old? That's like making a post about American economics and using an infograph with data from the Reagan administration.

i remember seeing one like "so you have decided venezuela is socialist…" is that the 7 year old one?

To join the ELN in the fight against the reactionary Colombian government

I said it once and I'll say it again, fuck Maduro. Doesn't mean I'm going to support foreign and/or right-wing coups.

Fucking "leftists".

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Many people in Venezuela have Colombian citizenship. Those aren't counted as Venezuelan refugees going to Colombia, they're counted as Colombians going to Colombia.
Even though many of them are going to Colombia for the first time in their lives, are abandoning everything they had in Venezuela, and don't have a place to stay in Colombia, they're Colombian citizens.

Is that because of some Grand Columbia shit?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_conflict

Venezuelan here, this is the mentality of the opposition folks.

Just look at this thing right here

This guy doesn't even know what he's talking about, he's mixing like three different concepts in this sentence. There are no more currency controls imposed in fact the contrary has occurred, the government lifted those controls, difference? no more state's dollar influx to the exchange market. The private sector and people have to use their own dollars now. Supply and demand, but no more cheap dollars to buy from the government to sell them at a higher rate in the black market.

This is what infuriates me the most. These guys are pieces of shit, leeches, so called producers, spoiled brats, things have to go their way always or they will have a fit, do as they say or otherwise they'll get angry, and hide the products, hoard them etc. They are taking the country for ransom, blackmailing everybody so that people like this fellow, will start to think that because the government did this or that, our poor little businessmen are forced to do the worst things in their repertoire to harm the people because they will turn a lesser profit than before. I'm sick of this shit. They are hiding their products in order to raise the price more and more because they were accustomed to have gigantic earnings and profits before the minimum wage raise, for god's sake they were having slaves not employees

What does this even mean? What are you even trying to say here?

There are more than 2700 people that came back, people are having a rough time outside in these other countries, because they bought all this propaganda of getting dollars for X job and returning or sending that money to their families and stuff to exploit the exchange rate here. The people that took advantage of the CADIVI, CENCOEX stuff and the rich people by tradition, went away with no problems rich here, rich there, right? on the other hand the poor people here that got their wages obliterated by the businessmen and dollar speculators found out that they will not become rich overnight by leaving the country and found harder conditions outside. They never though that while they might be getting payed in these countries in dollars, they were spending in dollars too, making it really fucking difficult to make ends meet and save, which was their plan in the first instance.

There are more Colombians that came to Venezuela, not the other way around. All this immigration thing is just to fill an agenda, for "humanitarian" intervention of our country. We have more than 5 million of Colombians here in Venezuela, running from the war, drug trafficking, paramilitary, guerrilla, failed economy from Colombia. No one ever called it an immigration crisis.

Sure thing man, have you converted your hard earned bolivares to dollars at the official rate yet?
Maracaibo: It's not being used because there's no way to spend your bolivares. Want to buy a kilo of rice at the supermarket? It costs 90-130 BsS (not the regulated 42), and you can't use your debit card because the power cuts have been fucking everything up. Want to make a bank transfer with BOD (one of the biggest banks) instead? Tough shit, the website has been down for a day, and when it's up, it's pretty intermittent too. Want to buy beef? Regulators watch them more closely than the supermarket, so the butcher shop sold all of it at the regulated price and started selling other, more profitable things instead. Want to buy chicken? It's regulated too, and at the "unregulated" price, it's even more expensive than beef, so people can't afford it. Even the shops that normally ignore the law in my area don't have it for that reason.
Banknotes? Yeah, I've heard of them. They sound like a good idea. Also, power just came back after 8 hours.

So it's around half a day instead of half an hour. That changes everything (/s).
Rent and services like water, gas are more expensive abroad, but most food is around the same price in Cúcuta and Maracaibo.
Are you talking about people who left recently or those who left >3 years ago?
20$ doesn't go far anywhere. As I said a few lines above, most food is around the same price in Cúcuta and Maracaibo. Venezuela was cheap in 2014, but not anymore. You might be able to buy enough food for yourself with 20$ if your area receives CLAP boxes and you can find a place that sells yucca and cooking bananas at a good price, if you live at your parents' home, but most people aren't in that situation. Do you think someone with 3 kids can live with 20$ or 40$? How are you going to pay for their school uniforms, their normal clothes (as they're growing up), their textbooks, or anything?

And how do you know that the people who took the free plane ticket did it to stay? Did the government put a leg tracker on all >2700 people to make sure that they didn't leave? Did they pay someone with top secret mind reading abilities to check what the passengers' plans were?

Time to bring a now-classic Zizek back on Cuba which is just as topical for Venezuela: inthesetimes.com/article/19677/the-left-fidelity-castration-slavoj-zizek-fidel-castro-cuba-che-communism.

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1. Colombians fled over more than half a century, not ~3 years like Venezuelans. (there were a lot before that, but the number has massively increased in the last 3 years) The Venezuelan crisis is different from most others, as people aren't fleeing from areas with civil wars or natural disasters going on, they're fleeing from an economic crisis.
2. Saying "more than 5 million of Colombians here in Venezuela" and implying that they were all fleeing from the war is stupid. Out of those that have a Venezuelan citizenship, only 721k were born in Colombia according to the 2011 census. Inflating that number by 7x by adding an ass-pull estimate of Venezuelans with Colombian parents who may have visited Colombia once or twice at most is dumb. In Venezuela, they're Venezuelans first and foremost.
3. The Colombian issue is being reported as a crisis, but most displacements are internal. unhcr.org/en-my/4922d43411.pdf Venezuela is different: Most emigrants in Barcelona aren't moving to Caracas or Maracaibo, they're moving to Cúcuta and Bogotá.

This Venezuelan news site has a list of possible Venezuelan dissident officials involved, based on the description given in the article: elestimulo.com/climax/el-topo-del-new-york-times-quien-quiere-tumbar-a-maduro/

Cliver Alcalá Cordones
Hugo Carvajal
Ramón Rodríguez Chacín
Henry Rangel Silva

Not related to the FARC: Antonio Benavides Torres, Justo José Noguera Pietri
Not in the OFAC list, accused by the Venezuelan government: Hebert García Plaza (Sanctioned by Obama in 2014), Rafael Isea

What an idiot. Also, fuck his stupid obsession to explain everything in psychological-sexual terms.
Oh fuck off

literally kulaks

cheka when?

tf does that even mean?

Exactly what is written. Are you unfamiliar with Zizek's insights? In a similar vein he claimed Marxism (ideology of Bolsheviks) to be nothing but attempts to avoid responsibility.

why do you care? It's not real communism anyway!

No he didn’t, he said that they used “historical necessity” as a secular version of “God wills it” to justify basically everything they did regardless of how far it seemed to stray from the ideals of socialism.

Exactly. Even if did not stray, even if it was 100% pure Socialism - it was still nothing but "God wills it".

Zizek denies Proletariat the right to defend itself.

I don’t think so, he’s shown sympathy for the USSR before. I think he just acknowledges that there are limits to how far you can go in defending the revolution, because you eventually reach a point where the means you adopt begin to endanger your ends. For example the authoritarian measures the USSR took were clearly necessary for the revolution to survive, and I don’t judge them for that. However those same measures also undermined Soviet democracy, calcified the political system, allowed revisionists to rule without any accountability, and eventually contributed to the Soviet collapse.

They're democratic socialists, aren't they?

Who the fuck needs his sympathy?

I.e. Proletariat is not permitted to use violence to defend itself.

That is your opinion. Rationale given by Zizek was that there can be no objective necessity to resort to violence. Because all reasons are justifications.

I am quite certain that it is the opposite. All evidence points to abolition of those measures being the reason (or, at least, one of) for democracy being undermined and proliferation of revisionists.

No, but there are cases where the scope, target, and application of such violence can be detrimental to the long term health of the socialist republic. It’s not a question of whether or not to use violence, it’s a question of when, how, why, and by and against whom it is used.

Those measures were never abolished. Tools such as the ban on factions, single party state, press/art censorship, and some elements of internal party structure were all intended to be used to keep the party on the correct course and to keep reactionaries out of power. However after Stalin’s death, these same tools fell into the hands of revisionists, and were then used to stifle legitimate attempts at positive reform, democratizatio, and generally exclude genuine socialists from Soviet politics. Kruschev sent in the Soviet army to crush a pro-Stalin demonstration in Georgia ffs. He was clearly using the repressive apparatus developed to combat counterrevolution to carry out counterrevolution.

Workers fired after minimum wage increases
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-14/after-getting-3-000-wage-hike-workers-are-fired-in-venezuela?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business

400 private schools have closed as a result of the new economic measures (Spanish)
el-nacional.com/noticias/educacion/400-colegios-privados-cerraron-por-las-nuevas-medidas-economicas_251189

The (pre-/primary/middle/high) school I studied in got rid of its 11th (last) grade. School starts on Monday.

We are talking about Zizek. Zizek does not say anything like this. If you persist in claiming otherwise, provide evidence.

Yes, they were.

I was talking about oppressive control over administration: constant purge-happy oversight from Centre over local managers and specialists in key posts.

Are you saying Stalin should've abolished army? Because that's the only conclusion that I can derive from this bit.