Here we discuss Israel, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel's ties to greater American imperialism and it's relations with other countries in the middle, whether or not it is an ethnostate, two state solution, one-state solution, "le no state solution xD" for the edgy anarkiddies who still think R.ojava did anything at all to make Syria into true communism, and so on
To start the thread off I'll summize an interesting article I've just read:
Other urls found in this thread:
english.almanar.com.lb
workers.org
washingtonpost.com
youtu.be
washingtonpost.com
cbsnews.com
commondreams.org
twitter.com
Any jewish, ot more specifically israeli anons here? What made you turn to socialism and what do you think of Israel and palestinians?
Why no link? Was it posted on stormfront?
PFLP GANG
Hezbollah is stronger right now than the PLO ever was
english.almanar.com.lb
Imperialists are shook
Ah shit song I completely forgot the link, sorry
workers.org
Daily reminder that Hamas was created by Israel and that the PFLP and Hezbollah are the true anti-sionista gang
Hamas was created by Israel? Really? You got a source on that? I've always preferred Hezbollah though
Dude it's well known. Israel created Hamas to destabilize Arafat who was very powerful at the time
I don't think it's that well known. I would've known if that were the case.
to be fair, Fatah and Arafat do a bunch of the repression for the Israelis in the West Bank
It's kind of well known among Leftists but among the general populace it's not really known at all (for reasons that should be obvious)
I'd like to add that it's incorrect to label arab organizations that are anti-zionist as anti-semite because arabs are semites as well. Other than that, thanks for that info.
Prager-U made video about Hezbollah.
I am really scared that their Washington masters ordered them to make this video as active measure and propaganda in preparation for upcoming war.
The European Jews aren't even from there. Like at all. It's a total setter state.
The Lebanese people, despite being divided (many Lebanese think Hezbollah is a Syrian govt/Iranian govt proxy), won't accept an invasion from the US and Israel.
Well the thing is, Hezb is basically the one who runs security in Lebanon. Prior to Hezb Lebanon was in a constant state of civil war between various ethnicities, religions, and even fucking regions; you can still find traces of this today in Beirut where one street is pro SSNP, and the other side of the street is pro Amal, without Hezb Lebanon would be a failed state on par with Somalia with Lebs constantly infighting over politics and ideologies. When ISIS and syrian rebels entered Lebanon and occupied a portion of it, the Lebanese military had to ask Hezb for help which is fucking hilarious, since the Leb army was too incompetent to even make gains.
Plus, the current governmental body in Lebanon is unified under the March 8th alliance, which basically means Aoun consults with Nasrallah before he can do anything.
They've already done that, after the 2014 war on Gaza even the most liberal PFLP pali in the west bank is pro-Iran; with the exception of the current government who are traitors on the israeli payroll.
There are currently more and more Iranian flags and Hezb flags popping up in the intifada by the day, and with their holders constantly being targeted by the Palestinian security forces for arrest.
More than that, Lebanon itself runs in an incredibly corrupt manner that Mediterranean countries are infamous for, Hezbollah controlled areas are a welfare Oasis in a desert of neoliberalism
In south America, I'd argue a lot of it's due to literal slavery and racial stratification
Mr.Shiada is that you?
"Zionism is the weapon of the imperialism”. May Day demonstration. Photo by Vladimir Sychev, USSR, 1970s
If that were the case I would think PFLP would know about it.
Does he know what the Jibril Agreement was? Over 1000 prisoners released by the Zionists in exchange for 3 of their people. Kozo Okamoto was also released through this.
Shiekh Yassin was arrested again in 1989 during the First Intifada. He was sentenced to life and only released again in 1997 with another prisoner exchange. In 2001 and 2002 he was placed under house arrest by none other than the PA.
His companions were also targeted by the Zionists with imprisonment and assassination.
Hamas has taken some retarded stances though. Like initially supporting the so-called "Syrian Revolution".
I've heard Lebanon (maybe inaccurately) described as one of the most libertarian places on the planet because the central government is basically nonexistent. So yeah, no wonder Hezbollah is able to gain support by providing services and protection.
(me)
And relatedly, one reason why the government is so weak is because the country is divided as it is. Every party practically has an armed wing and they all agree to disagree, more or less, and no one is able to really control the whole thing – if someone tried to do that, there would be another civil war, and nobody wants that.
And then you have groups like the Druze and their party, the PSP, which goes along with whoever is the stronger of the factions at the given moment.
I will always stand with the Muslims against the zionist, capitalist, internationalist Jews.
Jews on twitter lost their shekels when Corbyn made this simple tweet.
Nazbol Gang is back bb
So according to Jews all bankers are Jews or honorary Juden? At least the ones that start financial crises?
And control the press too. But unless you're Jewish it's anti-jew to say it?
It's also incorrect to label them anti-semitic because wanting to BTF/out/ a terrorist state that has imposed its rule in your homeland isn't fucking prejudice and discrimination.
Is Jeremy Corbyn secretly /ourguy/. He called Hezbollah and Hamas "our friends" at one point. Most Trots won't even go that far.
Of course, this too
I like to believe Corbyn is hiding his power level, if I were british I'd vote for him
Gee I wonder
He's still a reformist though. That alone will make many people here eithet indifferent to him or dislike him.
The Lion of Damascus will win against the imperialist zionists.
He's what one might used to call a Left-Social Democrat back in the day. He's a SocDem but he's willing to allow actual socialists into government. It's essentially the same thing Allende and Chavez tried to do. Idk if he'll have anymore success and beating back the reaction that will eventually come but that's about the long and short of it
I love Allende, so hopefully Corbyn will be like him without all the mistakes Allende's government made.
Somewhat unrelated but people really need to stop the "Palestinians are the true semites, so im actually pro-semitic xDD" meme, its pure semantics and isn't going to convince anyone of anything.
Words mean whatever people view them to mean. "Antisemite" has been a term for hatred towards jews for like 100 years, there's no use in trying to argue the semantics of the term.
its also used by rightwingers as a dog whistle, obviously this isn't how people here use it but its a bad look
also obviously anti-zionism isn't anti-semitism
polite sage to avoid shitting up the board with my corrections
What I meant is that both jews and arabs are semites, just that. When did I even imply otherwise?
You implied that calling Semitic arabs antisemites if they hate jews is wrong because they are also semites. This is a semantic argument that doesn't really work because anti-semite has been used as a synonym for jew hater for a century now.
I just dont think this is a useful argument, I've seen it used a lot and its never convinced anyone.
Jews around the world overwhelmingly support Zionism and Israel. The dissenters being fringe ultra-orthodox sects and so-called liberal zionists. Why are people so afraid to be critical of Jews here?
You know what I meant. And tbh, this argument should be used more often, specifically against zionists that wouldn't want to be associated with any "dirty inferior arabs"
The argument still stands because I never said palestinians or any other ethnicity/race were "true semites"
Jews "around the world" doesn't equal Jews "in general" Also liberal zionists are still zionists
There's been a huge uptick in criticism and dissent of Israel among young people in America, with the trend being so noticeable several outlets have wrote about how the Democratic Party base is actually majority negative on Israel for the first time in decades
You will never be a comrade until you denounce the Zionists, their Jewish enablers and the state of Israel as a whole. Read more books
You also have to denounce the so called "two state solution". The ONLY solution is a democratic and secular Republic of Palestine that recognizes the dignified and rights of everyone regardless of ethnicity or religion. That means all the Zionist parties are to be gutted and banned like the National Party of South Africa was, and reparations for the Palestinian people who had their homes and lives destroyed by colonial project there.
This but tbh I really wouldn't give much of a shit if Palestine somehow managed to win a war against Pissrael and just annexed all that territory.
They will, Hezbollah is stronger than the IDF at this point, the Shia axis' weakest point is the Houthis and the Gulf monarchies have no chance of winning against them
So mandatory homosexuality propaganda all day, abortion is a woman's right, and babies are a nuisance that should be avoided in favour of "self actualization" through hobbies or careers.
Don't catch your chickens before they hatch, one of the lesser objectives of the US's pants on the head neocon foreign policy in the Middle East for the last 16 years has been to encircle Palestine and Lebanon and thus make it more difficult for their joint resistance campaigns to effectively challenge the IDF. They haven't quite done this but it wouldn't take much for Trump to whip up public support for a joint IDF/US military invasion of Palestine or even just aiding them with drone strikes without the majority of the US public even knowing til after the fact.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump and Bolton folded some sort of backing for a direct strike by the IDF against Palestine with air support into their coming invasion of Iran
Dude you already made the jump to posting here and apparently being more critical of capitalism as such rather than just "teh jewz xD" why are you still so committed to being retarded
Literally all that secular means is that people won't go around beheading each other for believing the wrong spooks
But yes Women's rights and LGBT rights are also preferable in the long run though this will be stunted by the general backwardness of the population obviously
there's already woman rights, for decades now
lgbt culture is an american invention spawned by capitalists. lgbt "culture" promotes consumerism, hyper sexualisation, narcisism and lazyness
Also they stole their flag from the Inca Empire and the beautiful city of Cuzco, Peru.
Homosexuality has always and will always exist. LGBT culture is pure capitalist garbage.
Oh no how horrible i am literally seething
Isn't this really wishing for the impossible though? It seems to me that you might as well just set your aim right on socialism rather than hoping that Israel's ruling class will just allow you to dismantle the state that makes their power and p.rivilege possible.
For all the similarities of Apartheid SA and Israel, they are also not alike. The Zionists fanatics in their government do not recognize the right of any Palestinian state–they will not even grant Palestinians the pitiful consolation of a bantustan state. Zionist leaders have never sworn off the Greater Israel plan to expand from "Egypt to the Euphrates" and the reason for that is religious extremists in Tel Aviv think it would be an offense against God to grant even a single inch of rightful Jewish clay to non-Jews.
The fact that Israel is the Saudi Arabia of Judaism and is founded on the basis of a racist religion makes Israel quite unlike other settler-colonies.
Israel is also a tool of imperialism and an imperialist power in its own right. To even settle for multi-national secular bourgeois democracy and achieving that would be no small feat means leaving imperialist Israel and the architecture of Western imperialism that flows through Israel into the wider Middle East intact.
The end of Apartheid has not changed SA's role as a minor imperial partner in Africa and as a tool of wider world capitalist-imperialism.
Who the FUCK said anything about Israel's opinion on the matter factoring into it at all? The fact that you even think it's a matter of letting them "choose" whether they want that or not shows you aren't really radical minded on the subject you just want a two state solution with gibs to Palestine from Israel.
You don't get it. Palestine and its few allies must crush Israel, Israel must be completely destroyed and any last trace of its culture or government shattered into dust and spread to the wind. Is this possible? Maybe maybe not. But it doesn't have anything to do with "asking" Israel for anything. Palestine and its allies must TAKE back Israel or at least attempt to. Now does this mean killing every single last Jew living in Israel? Absolutely not and most groups who understand the level of violence necessary to reclaim the homeland don't even want this. HOWEVER those Jews who think they will get to stay and also still be Zionists after the fact (if Israel loses in this hypothetical war) will either have to leave or face harsh punishment and repression.
What you're suggesting is akin to someone saying "Right but the Nazis won't simply ALLOW the Jews to return to their ghettos :D" It's not about asking anyone politely to do anything. Supporting Palestine means SUPPORTING THEM not just giving empty rhetoric about "humanism" or whatever
Fuck off liberal
You don't even really believe that its possible but Palestinians (and others) should die en masse to take back Israel at all costs….for what reason? That it pleases you that they should attempt to do so? If the type of revolutionary war that you propose were defeated it would be a massive setback for the Palestinian national liberation movement.
A two state solution actually is something even if it doesn't result in the complete liberation of Palestine immediately. Many leading Palestinian resistance figures and groups have supported it. It would be a step-forward if it was achieved.
Was the Easter Rising and the proclamation of the Republic of Ireland not a blow to imperialism because there was a two-state solution?
You've skipped over the most important contention of my post which is that your fantasy of a Palestine modeled on ANC South Africa but this time with roving bands of Palestinian cultural revolutionaries and gulags/deportation for recalcitrant Zionists is just that–a fantasy. It's far more likely that the Arab-Jewish working class will band together to overthrow the bourgeoisie on both sides of the barricades then it is that that will happen.
Only socialism can ensure complete national liberation; big tent bourgeois national liberation (even of the revolutionary variety) will only go so far until it compromises some of the interests of the national revolutionary movement in favor of a mutual class interest of preserving the rights of capital.
Let's take your example:
In this case, it wasn't woke Zionists or Polish nationalists fighting Nazi occupation that actually ended this (extreme) case of oppression but the Red Army.
Bourgeois anti-colonialist/anti-imperiaist/anti-fascist movements have real and serious shortcomings that I don't think any amount of wishful thinking will overcome. It's not a coincidence that the most successful nat-lib movements have been led by communist parties.
If a Palestinian communist party were to take over the struggle from the "traitorous" national bourgeois in Palestine then what would we have but the transformation of the national-liberation movement into a more general movement of class war?
Right now, Jewish Israelis are actually the majority in Israel and the Occupied territories but even with the right to return they would still make up a near majority. And that means, that once you factor in those Palestinians/others that will vote with Jewish Israelis on certain issues they will still make up a plurality. As I said, the parallel with South Africa is similar but also quite different.
So, should Israel's opinion matter? That is irrelevant to the fact that it will. Only an alliance with the Jewish working class will make revolutionary change possible, otherwise you're stuck with never-ending palace struggles about what certain factions of Zionist bourgeois think.
This is why I think socialism is far more likely an outcome than one state, or the radical "de-colonial" visions of a one-state solution posited by some. Only the proletariat has the power to get it done and it can only be done by Jewish and Palestinian proletarians working together.
...
You see this is the problem with your entire argument. It's predicated on a naive belief that the majority of Israelis, including the working class, actually WANT a two-state solution. They absolutely don't. Are there probably small portions of Israeli society that do (aside from the Arabs who live there as second class citizens)? Absolutely. But in Israel, particularly recently, there has been an increasing attack on any journalist or activist who has any sympathy at all for Palestine. The liberal and "left" parties and organizations are impotent as fuck and haven't done any kind of real organizing in decades. Israel right now is a fucking fascist state, there's a reason they force the majority of the population to be in the military together .
You act like there's the evil Israeli bourgoeise who are hardline Zionist and then a big mass of radical working class Israelis who understand the necessity of working with Palestinians. It's quite the opposite. The vast majority of Israeli society at this point is either legitimately pro-Zionist or too afraid of retaliation from the State to say anything. Whenever an IDF soldier shoots a child and actually gets put on trial (which often doesn't even get that far) it's a regular phenomenon for MASSIVE rallies in support of the IDF soldier with people from all classes of Israeli society chanting racist slogans against Palestine and so on.
One really only has to look at the attitude towards the settlements and general disregard for the logical conclusion of Israeli expansion among ACTUAL ISRAELIS to see that at this point the Jewish working class and Leftist parties, even if they want to do your plan of working with the Palestinian working class jointly, won't and in a lot of ways literally can't.
You aren't looking at this realistically at all you just want a "w-why can't everyone just get along D: approach". It's objectively the case that any chance of reform in Israel (or America's relationship with Israel for that matter) ended a LONG time ago. You're doing basically the same thing Democrat Cops of America shits do when they argue socialists should work within the Dem party because "revolutions just too hard dude". They don't realize that it doesn't matter. It's either revolt despite the chance of failure or fail for certain when the Democrats kill your movement like they have a million times. It's the same thing with Palestine and it's allies and they understand that for the most part.
Fucking kek'd hard
Russia keeps going back and forth between redpilled and bluepilled
you can bet the USA has already sent Israel every piece of information it has on the capabilities of the S300 and how to counter it. The USA owns an S300 system it uses for research and training, it also does training against Greek S300 systems. the number of systems Syria has wont pose a real hinderance to Israel, and Russia stands to lose a lot when they're destroyed, Like Israel has been doing to Syrian Pantsirs. AA systems cost hundreds of millions of dollars,
also, when Cyprus tried to install S300s on their Island, Turkey went and bought surface to surface missiles which could be used to destroy them. These missiles were bought from Israel. Turkish f16 pilots also trained in israel to avoid and destroy s300s.
So realistically, Israel has it on lock.
Shalom, captain Levi!
Nice try at hasbara here!
What's the weather like in Tel Aviv today?
you're right. Israel doesn't have a military. the SAA can directly march to Eilat tomorrow and Israel couldn't stop them. Anyone who says otherwise is a shill.
FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA
Daaaa jooooooos
not in the Mid East?
I don't really care about "LGBT Cultutre or pride parades or something it's just that the Sexual Liberation of all members of society will come out as a natural result of the loss of religious spooks and reactionary elements in society
But where do we draw the line comrade?
How do you mean though?
Well, let me guess.
No we ought not entertain the idea of letting fetishes like pedophilia and bestiality become socially acceptable.
I think healthy sexual activity can be encouraged in a decommodified world to help eek out the sicker fetishes.
But in the end it all has to be left to the give community.
No, uncalled for displays of sexual desire in public should be strongly discouraged for everyone
no
no, babies are a massive responsibility which shouldn't happen on accident and should only be imposed on responsible and willing people. Possibly by eliminating "natural" insemination all together, forced vasectomies for all males at 13.
yes.
You leftists don't realize for some reason Jews control everything. All the world's problems are Jewish. Zig Forums is right about that much.
I'm from Zig Forums. If I realized that Zig Forums hates Jews just as much as Zig Forums does I would not have been so against you all this time.
Nazis KIIIIIIIND of ruined that aspect. I agree though.
Because leftists are willing slaves of The Jew. Ruled by their masters, having their strings pulled like puppets.
Tbf we aren't afraid to kill jews, OBVIOUSLY not for being jewish, but for being porkies, idpol be damned.
The jewish question is something american globalist shills talk to distract the people over the fact that american imperialism supported by american citizens rules the world and wants to kill every culture in order to substitute with their own
This so much. To all the Zig Forumsacks here, you think we wouldn't cheer the deaths of Soros, Rotschild, and Kissinger? These are some of the worst human beings currently alive who just so happen to be jewish. Doesn't mean anything, if they were black, asian, gay, whatever the fuck they'd get the bullet too.
Considering banning for everything antijewish here, mods can answer your questions.
Someone seems to be obsessed with Jews
Phallocognitive politics strike again
Sorry for the very ignorant question on my part but can anyone tell me who this guy is?
i'm pretty sure that's mahmoud ahmadinejad
I just checked and yeah it's him.
Be wary of any Anti-Israel shit Russia does. From a material standpoint it's good RIGHT NOW but keep in mind that Putin is not Lenin. Capitalists control both countries and once the USA implodes its not very far outside the realm of possibility that Russia will begin to trade and give aid to Israel in some form if they receive some sort of good deal in return.
Israel is a little leech that would be crushed by the foot of a united Middle East if it didn't get so much fucking support from the USA and Western Europe. If the capitalists on Putin's side and Putin himself decide they can get something out of being friendly with Israel they will turn like a dime
To be fair though I don't really see what that could be at this time. Russia has built up such a good relationship with Syria and Iran that idk how he could possibly get any better of a Middle Eastern position than he has right now by pivoting to Israel and/or Zionism
Russia baffles me so much. They go from based to unbased so quickly. Only time will tell what they'll do next in the middle east I suppose.
im absolutely opposed to the israeli state on the grounds that it is a racist, imperialist power engaged in ethnic cleansing and war-profiteering, but the people calling for the total expulsion of jews from the region are actually just retarded.
internationalism and class consciousness, not blood-and-soil and class collaboration mk?
But would the israeli state ever accept a one-state solution? I seriously doubt it, so the only way I see it happening is a wat between Israel and Palestine, which would have to be headed by secular and pragmatic palestinians so if they were to win they wouldn't straight up genocide all the jews living there.
lol
Renewed attacks on BDS in two recent cases, both involving colleges and college students
First a woman was detained and has been held at an Israeli airport for a week for merely being suspected of being SYMPATHETIC to BDS despite Israel so far finding no evidence that she actually has been an active participant in the movement:
cbsnews.com
In the second case, a professor at an American University has been reprimanded for refusing to write a letter of recommendation for a student interested in studying at Tel Aviv University, citing BDS as his inspiration:
commondreams.org
And again, the Rightist Free Speech warriors are nowhere to be found kek
Nobody is disagreeing with you and I don't believe anyone other than the Nazis ITT have argued for a "total expulsion of Jews" but rather a one state solution with leftist and working class Palestinians having a monopoly on control in the government since all the liberal "opposition" in Israel is even more impotent than the ones in Russia and perhaps a banning on right-wing extremist parties such as Jewish Home and elements of Likkud (obviously a one party Commie state would be preferable but it's not like that's gonna happen kek)
The only mass expulsion I argued for was that of the settlements and a return of those homes to Palestinians. I also argued that a cultural revolution of sorts would be necessary to obliterate Israel's inherent fascism but made sure to point out that it can only be done by the working class and the most oppressed Palestinians led by actual Leftist orgs in Palestine and perhaps Lebanon, not Islamists or Iranian wreckers or whoever else wants a one-state solution just so they can have another Islamist theocracy in the Middle East.
Idk where you're getting the "mass expulsion of jews" nonsense from
Does anybody have any good sources on the events leading up to the 1948 war? It seems to me like it was an inevitable outcome of British policy and UN incompetence, combined with the utter refusal of any other country to accept European Jewish refugees. In other words the Nakba seems to be more the fault of the eternal Anglo than anything else, with the Jews being forced into the role of settlers and eventually oppressors. It goes without saying however that none of this excuses the current Israeli policies of apartheid.
Not what you were asking for but this part reminded me of pic related and why America and Israel need to be crushed and start over
...
IF only it WAS about that (than it would be a great thing)
… beacause that "culture" you refer to has NOTHING worth protecting, basically total and utter barbarism, every shitty thing worshipping the rapist warlord prophet should be burnt to ashes
Now this is something I can get behind!
People in ISIS have more genuine culture than America
t. Burger