Source:
aa.com.tr
Of course this will be defended as well by the usual suspects. I have been saying that Ro.java is de facto imperialist since they have taken Tabqa Dam and the oilfields which is the main energy source of Syria. You literally have this stuff guarded by CIA operatives but at least you trigger le ☭TANKIE☭s xDDD
sorry for the double post, this website was literally dying
It is unironically far better to hire private mercs than to receive Pentagon troops.
They do both though, so..
honestly have no idea how anarchists can defend the over a dozen US military bases in Syria after something like comes out
One Turkish source is not very respectable.
Still I am wondering. Turkey is nato, yet it is fighting against K*rds. So why is usa aiding K*rds?
the Kurds are literally mossad why do you think hollyjew is making a movie about the jew pisspiggranddad
I really don't see a problem with hiring mercs to train and supplement your forces. A trained and armed merc squad could potentially do wonders in guerrilla warfare compared to a young and inexperienced former farmer/factory worker.
being that naive again
reminds me of that one time i saw the venus on christmas eve and made a wish on it
Unless Venus got hit by a celestrial body and it itself became a shooting star, you're doing it wrong.
Anyway, do you have an argument for why hiring mercenaries is inherently counterproductive to our movement? Because they once sniffed an american pair of panties?
Mercs don't work like in strategy games where you hire and get full control of them, like any capitalist enterprise they have their own interests that coincide with American imperialism. Hiring an American company to build your infrastructure or pump your oil would be inviting imperialism, exactly the same applies to PMCs
That said, hiring mercs from Russia or any non-NATO country is probably fine, mercenaries themselves aren't counter-productive
Yeah there's literally nothing wrong with US troops guarding oil fields if they don't wave the flag of America.
i was a 7 yo tard and my father was rather religious
so seeing the venus i thought it's what we call the "christkind"
rather than your fatso coke guy the story here is that it brings the presents
anyway
do you really need an explanation to grasp the difference between mercenaries of an imperialist force that are known for massacring people, and actual instructors?
you leftpolacks have some real cognitive issues, i know that much already, but you're not gonna pull this stupid "lend-lease" shit again, are you?
the difference in force is not clear to you? really?
you guys have no argument, walk around with ridiculously naive ideas and expect not to be mocked but be taken serious and reasoned with? you are like that child i was back then, looking at a star, not grasping what it is, making a wish on it to give you presents because you've been good this year
there's nothing to be reasoned with, someone this delusional just needs to make some experience and grow up
i pity you, really
hahhahaahahahahahhahahahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
REMEMBER KILL ALL ANARCHISTS KILL THEM ALL LEAVE NONE ALIVE
I am unable to find any additional sources.
They aren't "US Troops" just because they're troops from the US. They're private contractors working for immediate wages, not long term investments in oil extraction.
What makes you think private US mercs inherently have some allegiance to American imperialism? I have no doubt you'll find plenty of reactionary people within a mercenary squad, but are you saying they're secretly working for Pentagon in some manner?
Because that's the same thing Blackwater and co were doing in Iraq.
Because they're um, from an American capitalist corporation. Imperialism isn't just when reactionaries and Pentagon do stuff. You should know better with that flag
Yes, they were hired by the American state to further its interests. That doesn't answer any questions.
So a factory worker in America is also personally vested in American imperialism because they work for an American capitalist corporation?
That's a non-sequitur and you know it. You're just trolling at this point.
Literally yes. The Maoists were right.
Oh look, organized crime sends out their armed thugs to protect a illegal racket, that so far killed I don't know how many millions of people.
If you have sound logic, then apply it so I can't use it against you.
do you actually believe anything you say or can you just admit that you're just really bad at this, whatever it is you try to do?
Since what I'm doing is so retarded, why don't you just spend 30 seconds refuting it?
The capitalists will lease us the mercs that shoot them.
Eh, my opinion is lukewarm at this point on them. I get they’re trying to survive and whatnot, but a deal with the devil isn’t exactly helping them. But i’ll admit, Mercs are better than direct US soldiers
Unironicly if you need them to survive
Mercs are not that bad
Tho idk much about the Kurd thing
redlibs already in damage control mode
alright pops you need to take your vitamins let me call the nurse
Most people here have a lukewarm opinion on Antifa and most people here aren’t a fan of Islam. But totally based and redpilled post my fellow redditor!
Well articulated and totally on topic, comrade!
you spend half that time putting in the effort telling me how mercenaries equate to factory workers
Please do the barest minimum research before you embarrass yourself lads.
I'm not saying they necessarily do, I used that argument to highlight for our comrade the hole in his logic.
k.
…
can you just go back? i don't know why you're even still pretending like anything you say has any merit, at all
It's literally in the OP.
It's in the document posted in the OP.
Of course
He is correct though, would have been nice if we weren't forced to google Castle International LLC Arizona.
linkedin.com
The OP should have posted who they were and what they do, it's kinda misleading, which is why I hate these fucking HAPPENING threads
You know that Blackwater and every other PMC also page their services as just "intelligence and training", right?
As I just said, my statement was only meant to refute our comrade's flawed argument. It was not meant as an argument in itself in favour of hiring American mercs.
Your lack of argument and increased assmad only strenghtens my conviction that I'm right.
k.
cispg.com
This is their Special Projects Group, who they likely hired alongside the more standard medical people. Even they are combat medics, with a few craft specifically used for things like airlifting people out of combat situations. Of course they are lightly armed, they are fucking combat medics. And if they are a CIA front, it is a damn good one, because Castle International is the same group that is contracted in the US for things like airlifts for injured patients to get them to hospitals and other such private medical stuff.
Of course the problem is less what the mercenaries are supposed to do, and more the kurds letting in an American company in the first place. I'm pretty neutral on Rоjava but it's going to bite them in the ass. Even if they're just hiring a military band to play the Internationale and do interpretive dances.
It's so fucking strange that we have this persistent problem with obfuscating posters. People who deliberately chuck out fallacious arguments and mind games.
You know you're arguing in bad faith but continue to do so because your agenda is to throw cover for US imperialism.
If X is imperialist because it works for capitalist corporations, then it logically follows that Y is also imperialist if it works for capitalist corporations.
If this is too hard for you to wrap your head around, then go to bed and come back tomorrow when your ass stops bleeded.
en.wikipedia.org
Wow they hired the white helmets?
In my very first post I made it clear that I do not support over a dozen US military bases in Syria. I started arguing about hiring mercenaries in general because it is an interesting topic.
Please show me where I obfuscated a post. I legitimately try to adress what is being said directly.
...
They’re hiring an American company for their services, not giving them fucking drilling rights to their oil or some shit. Lenin hat is right, nobody so far has given a legitimate reason why exactly this in any way aids imperialism. Even if they are hiring these guys to fight rather than do medical or logistics work, I fail to see how having a few of these scumbags on their payroll invalidates the fact that they are fighting ISIS, Turkey, and the FSA.
Never implied that, no.
You never fail to show up in these threads. Always siding with imperialists.
In general sure, many (even most) corporations are complicit and even active in imperialism, but that doesn’t mean that literally everything they do advances American imperial interests all the time.
Believe me I’m not happy about this in the slightest and I wish they weren’t doing it. It’s a red flag for sure, but once again nobody has been able to explain how the use of mercenaries automatically makes you imperialist, especially when you are using them against imperialist forces like the TFSA.
There are bigger problems with Ro.java than hiring outside medical and logistical support.
Whether it's America or Russia supporting them, whether they're hiring Mercs or not. The main flaw remains the actual basis of it's economy. Which - being decentralized and dominated by small cooperatives - is fundamentally petty bourgeois. As such, the class interests of this group (small businesses and capitalist cooperatives) will eventually conspire against any socialist aspirations held among the the people of northern Syria.
If you look at the news coming from the region over the past few years, you can already see this happening: collectivization is eschewed in favor of decentralization and "empowering" small businesses and cooperatives. This is in direct opposition to how Ro.java originally emerged: As a collective effort to preserve security and economic life in Northern Syria.
When at first the MoP were actually collectivized and planning was more or less centralized, it's now moving towards increasing privatization.
And as far as the nature of these firms goes: Democratization doesn't alter the actual basis of the firm. They're still fundamentally capitalist enterprises that have to engage in wage labor, commodity production and profit accumulation. As a result the economic cloud of the ruling Executive Council is diminished. The bureaucracy gives way to commercial interests, which ultimately come to dominate the state.
Now all this could be excused if there actually was a long-term prospect for economic independence. But there isn't. It's an economic backwater whose primary exports are energy. It's landlocked, and has no significant access to mineral resources, through which it could build up local industry. It's wholly and completely dependent on exports. And as such it's no surprise that it's forced to do what it does: That is, open itself up to imperial exploitation.
Also Ro.java cannot be imperialist by virtue of not being a hegemonic power. Instead it's an intermediate entity through which the exploitation of Syria will be/is organized.
Most of that applies to Assad to an even greater degree, except the part about no prospects for economic independence. Still, unless Syria plans to go full Juche isolation they are going to be beholden to whichever countries they depend on most economically. As far as the actual structure of R*java’s economy goes, I agree with much of what you say, although I would argue that the democratization if private firms on its own is a major step in the correct direction and lends itself towards a more genuine (ie proletarian) democracy. R*java may not be socialist, but they’re still the obvious choice as long as they don’t sell out completely to US interests, which anybody who actually pays attention to what’s going on knows they haven’t done (yet).
No one claimed Syria under Assad was socialist, it's that the struggle for Syria's liberation is anti-imperialist. Empire taking more territory makes it STRONGER, entrenching capitalism for another half century with each nation it plunders.
Well they had to ally with someone to be able to defeat ISIS and nab some land. The question is how free are they after allying with the US? Are they independent or a vassal state?
I’m still of the opinion that there is no such thing as a non-socialist anti-imperialist. Not in any meaningful sense, since Assad undoubtedly will welcome foreign investment as soon as the war ends. Also if you think that Russia doesn’t have imperial designs on Syria then I think you’re being naive.
Yes but the Kurds have yet to show that they are in any way an American satellite, since they clearly have no problem working with Assad and Russia and getting into shootouts with NATO countries and their proxies. US support for them has also wound down recently.
Why do you even need to ask this? Did you really think they could remain independent from US control after taking both financial and military support?
I think most probably not. I was just wondering that maybe, possibly that could be possible.
I think it is a better shot than Assad remaining independent of an imperialist Russia
If they are US puppets then why are they negotiating to be re-integrated into Syria and the SAA after the war? Why are they fighting America’s proxies in Turkey and the FSA.
Wait, what the fuck do you mean by this? What did russia have to do with this?
Are you trying to imply that you'd prefer over a dozen US military bases in Syria controlling syrian land under the governance of the US (So basically US imperialism DOES succeed in Syria) than Assad defending his country?
Would the US really let them give back the oilwells and refinieries that they took from ISIS?
Negotiating, should have been negotiated because those talks didn't even follow through. There was a recent incident where some over a dozen US military bases in Syria killed a bunch of SAA soldiers in an ambush. That was after those "negotiations.
Are you acting like Syria doesn't recieve explicit Russian support and that Syria is not a larger proxy battle between the hegemonic US imperialist power and the aspiring hegemonic Russian imperialist power?
It actually would be if Ro.java was actually in a position to dictate the terms of it's cooperation. But it can't, because it's not an equal relationship: If Ro.java kicks out the American presence, Ro.java will cease to exist.
Hiring foreign companies to perform local services is actually an explicit example of imperialism in action.
The profits of this company are funneled to it's capitalist American owners, who themselves are - more often than not - in direct contact with America's military-industrial apparatus.
The same thing was done in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's through enterprises like these that the surplus value of the Syrian people ends up being funneled towards foreign capitalists.
Again, this could be excused if all they needed was a stop gap to eventually achieve autarchy, but they can't. Instead it shows the weakening of the Ro.javan state and it's increasing submission to - at times foreign - commercial interests.
You're right about Syria. Both Ro.java and Syria are in a precarious economic position. And both are being targeted by foreign vultures (including Russian and Iranian firms) looking to exploit Syria.
The tragedy is that Ro.java never lived up - or even could live up - to it's own internationalist aspirations. Being squeezed between a rock and a hard place, the revolution was stillborn as they couldn't afford to antagonize neighboring powers.
It's no surprise that the S.DF wasn't allowed to move beyond the Euphrates (And likewise Syria wasn't allowed to move into the North): Victory by any power would defeat the ultimate aim of a balkanized Syria. Which so far has been a success: Syria's natural sources have been divided up among competing interests, most of the country is occupied by imperial powers, and many of it's educated professionals have fled. As it stands, Syria has been set up for decades of brutal imperial exploitation.
Ro.java is a vassal state, even if they're in denial about it. Without American support both Turkey and Syria would have overrun the territory by now.
Yeah they receive Russian support but so what? If they didn't they'd have fallen a very long time ago. What do you want? Be honest in your intentions.
I know you're trying to worm around it because you know a ban is hovering above your head.
Assad will be as indedpendent from Russia as he was before the war.
That is to say; Syria was, is and will be completely dependent on Russia to defend it against potential American invasion and will therefore do whatever it takes to retain this relationship.
This sounds like the old anti-soviet spiel when it came to vietnam.
Are we going to say Iran is imperialist now?
There was no ambush. Some paramilitaries loyal to Assad (ie not the army itself) crossed into SyDF territory and started asking people for IDs and trying to recruit people. The SyDF showed up and confronted them and there was a shootout. There’s video of the incident.
Except Russia isn’t socialist, and so will engage in standard imperialist relations like any other capitalist power.
They received Russian support because Russia wants things out of the deal, not just to spite the US. Russia has aspirations to be what the US is now, and they will make Syria into what the US makes all other nations it "allies" itself with, a vector through which it can project it's military power and a place where they can exploit their economies for the ends of the imperialist powers. Russia is a blatant imperialist actor on the world stage, and they explicitly want to exploit the Syrian people.
I think that is an enthusiastic reading on Russian intentions.
The Soviets had an explicit interest in Vietnam and the revolution there for tactical reasons, but the primary motivation of supporting Vietnam was safeguarding the revolution itself. Russia now, as a capitalist state, has no such revolutionary intentions, and we should not pretend it does.
You didn't answer my question, are you chucking your support behind over a dozen US military bases in Syria, thus the US, over Assad's Syria?
That’s a false dichotomy, it assumes that the Kurds are an American proxy, and also assumes that they are inherently at odds with Assad.
My support is with over a dozen US military bases in Syria, not the US, and I trust them to make the military decisions on the ground that they believe will safeguard their revolution. They have a better chance of being a strong socialist country than Assad, who introduced several neoliberal economic reforms and the lifestyle of Assad himself, and the general erosion of the ideas of Ba'athism itself over time to the point where it is basically unrecognizable as a socialist theory. That isn't to say I am opposed to Syria or Assad mind, if over a dozen US military bases in Syria believes it a good idea to negotiate with Assad, I will support it fully.
Don’t know, would the US allow them to sell that oil to Assad? Because that’s what they’ve been doing since they took them over.
They are, their actions demonstrably prove this. No one gives a shit about how you interpret it, just look at who they're dealing with and how their actions play PERFECTLY into the hands of the US.
The assumption here is that there can be no internal conflict in NATO and that turkey isn't the weakest link within the organization.
Until they fully relinquish the land they're on and stop taking support from the US, who funds the very people the kurds are fighting against, then we can say their interests are antagonistic to Assad.
Awwwwww cute, unfortunately we don't live in a fantasy world, and your support for Ro.Java tacitly supports the US.
As your support for Assad tacitly supports Russia?
Yes, I can at least be honest with that. Russia is a FAR weaker nation to deal with than the US. Think pragmatically.
How does fighting NATO and their proxies, and showing an explicit interest in cooperating with Assad show that they are American proxies? If anything it shows the opposite.
So if it’s possible to be a NATO member and be opposed to the US then why isn’t it possible for R*java to oppose the US while receiving support from them?
If that were the case then they wouldn’t be in negotiations, and they wouldn’t be as open to working with Assad as they clearly are. The Kurds want local autonomy and DemCon governance in the region they control. Assad wants to maintain Syria’s sovereignty. These goals are not at odds, and can be accomplished by any number of compromises and agreements between the two groups.
I think that's naive considering over a dozen US military bases in Syria's economic position is even more precarious. Syria already stands little chance united, and even less when balkanized and occupied by imperial powers.
Russia today is legitimately an imperialist power. Putin might not be an explicit fascist, but Russia's elite have the same aims as their American counterparts: Empire.
The saving grace here is that Russia is energy independent and enjoys food security. So it doesn't nearly have to go to the same lengths as America. But that doesn't prevent oligarchic interests from looking for more profits abroad. (Africa, Mid-East, etc.)
Not explicitly. But I think it's ending up in that direction, out of necessity.
It cannot afford anything right now short of a pro-active foreign (and economic) policy, which in turn ends up fomenting imperialist relations. After all someone has to pay for all these foreign interventions. Without it, Iran would go bankrupt.
Really the sanctions share much of the blame for this. Iran was building up a rather autarchic economy before all this started. But when it was starved of the resources (procured through oil exports) to build that autarchy, it entered crisis. Meanwhile it was also being surrounded by imperialist puppets that would no doubt become a staging ground for an invasion.
One of the things about fascism and imperialism is that it forces everyone to become increasingly fascist and imperialist. It's a metastasizing cancer, the heart of which (today) is America.
I do think pragmatically, and my conclusion is that it is better to support a socialist revolution that might achieve some autonomy from an imperialist power than it is to support a vaguely possibly socialist nation that will explicitly support an aspiring Imperialist power. If the US falls as an Imperialist power by supporting Russia around the world, then Russia will simply take it's place. The answer is not to just pit the imperialist powers against each other to have them fall, but to pragmatically use imperialist powers to support socialism until there comes a point where socialism is strong enough to contest the imperialist powers themselves. We may both tacitly support imperialism, but at least my end goal is to end imperialism.
If there is anything we have learned from the socialist experiments throughout the past few decades, it is that socialism allows for rapid mobilization and strengthening of the economy with good economic planning and worker unity. Assad might be better off now since he is beniffited by outside capital due to neoliberal economic reforms, but Ro.java has better long-term economic capability through socialist reforms in the economy.
I think people underestimate how much the status quo also serves Russian oligarchic interests: A dependent Syria is more profitable than a stable, united and independent Syria.
In turn I think out of all powers involved in Syria today, Iran is the only one that remains committed to a united Syria. It's the only one who's security position would be considerably weakened in case of a Balkanized peace deal.
The problem with this logic is that we can apply it to literally every nation on earth who cannot sustain itself domestically. So now we're in a tangle where "Imperialism is faceless and international!", that any state can engage in it.
You see what this does? It demoralizes opposition to imperialism because it becomes more of an abstract force without material actors rather than something planned by certain companies/states.
Whenever you want to tackle imperialism then suddenly leftcoms/ultralefts will crawl out and scream "But the oppressed nation is also imperialist! Revolutionary defeatism is needed!". And you can't argue against that because - technically - they may be right. So then America can continue being an imperialist power because we have "lefts" denouncing other "imperialist" countries at every turn. This is what I mean by obfuscating, turning actual struggle into a semantic debate and delaying action.
learn to differ between words and actions
No you will get a second Catalonia where the US enjoys all the benefits of a weakened nation that can be more readily conquered than it would have under Assad.
If the US fails, in any way, then the global economy which CAPITALISM is predicated on would be sent into utter chaos. The best time to launch a international socialist struggle, which you're alluding to. Life isn't a fucking video game where one power instantly takes the place of another dominant one without an interim of extreme struggle and changing of power structures.
Ok I don't know how the fuck this will work. This is almost comical. Imperialism has destroyed socialist movements in the west UTTERLY. Why wouldn't it do the same in the periphery if it furthers its influence there?
No your end goal is to have the US partition further land in Syria. Which is objectively true, not conjecture.
Tbh it depends what we mean by imperialism
But all capitalist states can be imperialist
How can an oppressed nation be imperialist???
OP are you Turk? Assad supporting anti nato Turk?
Ask naziposter and everyone claiming that Russia is imperialist (Russia has suffered global sanctions for decades). He made the assertion that Iran COULD be imperialist if we just give it time.
It's exactly the opposite, actually. It finally gives a face to the imperialists, the captains of industry and the corrupt politicians pushing their agenda. An "imperialist nation" is the abstract force - a personification of the nation as an evil greedy person.
I'm honestly not sure what the fact that Naziposter continuing to be one of the best posters on this board says about Zig Forums in general, but keep doing you lad, bless.
No it doesn't, the US is the epicenter of imperialist action and the main propagator of capitalism. Deflecting the locus of capitalism onto some nebulous international force is akin to Illuminati shit.
Thank fuck somebody finally said it. People here seem to have this weird idea that legitimate national security interests and imperialist ambition are somehow at odds with one another rather than complimentary. Sure, Iran pumps money and weapons into Syria because of legitimate concerns today, but tomorrow they will still be there for the oil, labour, and markets. It’s entirely possible for a country to be legitimately protecting its sovereignty while engaging in imperialism simultaneously.
Russia is imperialist ,it has a strong enough capital
And iran idk
Naziposter thinks communist should start nuking cities and that socialism is a meme that cant happen anymore newfag
Also he is not reactionary(he is memeing)
This entire thread is a bunch of leftcoms trying to defend their inactivity by labeling everyone imperialist, so we may as well sit back and do nothing.
