Why did this imageboard furiously circlejerk over these guys two years ago? Was it a shill psy-op? More importantly...

Why did this imageboard furiously circlejerk over these guys two years ago? Was it a shill psy-op? More importantly, what's stopping this forum from supporting the next mutation of them?

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What the fuck did you snort nigger since when have these fags ever been supported here. Like of all socdems out there (syriza, corbyn, maduro) this are easily the most hated everywhere.

OP BTFO

Corbyn dicksuckers are here to this day what are you talking about? Maduro is resisting imperialism and is good you cocksucker.

I never said Maduro was bad.

Hi newfag. Back during the election they were shilled heavily.

WTF, I love cops now.

...

Once again, it depends on the chapter, the local election in question, etc. Obviously there are a number of chapters dominated by red liberals that will vote in more Orcassio Cortez style sellouts. But if you can get a chapter with an actually radical position then you can play a role in getting an actual demsoc (or at least anti-imperialist and principled socdem) elected. And unlike taking over a whole part, marginalizing rightists and libs of a single D.SA chapter is a readily achievable feat.

this, op is insane

No he’s right, a lot of people shilled for Syriza back in the Greek elections, and to this day there are people who support Corbyn and Mélenchon and that’s totally fine.

Why is it so hard to think an anonymous board hosted on freaking 8ch might be full of dumbfucks? But nooo, it must be the CIA.

Not that I necessarily disagree with you on everyone here being a dumbfuck, but with this being the only true leftist space on the internet, who else will lead the revolution?

I was talking about Zig Forums mostly.

People today aren't going to elect an M-L communist whose policy includes dismantling capitalism and establishing the DotP in their first year. Get real.

Wait, I am on Zig Forums. I thought I was on a different board, sorry.

OP specifically said the Democrat Cops of America though, no one here has ever shilled them.

I'm not a newfag, I've been posting since late 2016, and you're delusional if you think anyone here has ever shilled the Democrat Cops of America.

If you vote at all, who the fuck else are you going to vote for?
Accelerationism is completely stupid.

Not voting is equally stupid. There are a plethora of reasons for radicals to align with genuine socdems (not imperialist shills like OC or even Bernie).

And what did you think I was talking about?

Elections are stupid for winning power unless you want to get Allende’d

Wouldn't getting coup'd just count as accelerationism

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While I prefer way more revolution over reformism, Chavez was a reformist too and he almost got fucked like Allende but due to his control over a big portion of the army he managed to save himself. I'm not sure if Chavez armed the workers but he once said something regarding this while talking about Allende:
"Socialism can be attempted through peaceful ways but it can never be unarmed".

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PUERTO RICO
OH
PUERTO RICO
OH
PUERTO RICO
OH


AJAJAJAJAJAJAJ

BYE BYE OCASIO CORTEZES WE DON'T NEED OCASIO CORTEZES

I’d vote for both reformist and revolutionary parties if they were on the ballot but revolution really is the only way. Anyone who denies this is forgetting the class-character of the state. I could see a coup if a Marxist somehow got into office in America. Allende demonstrates the clearest the need, like you said, to arm the workers and, more importantly
"… that 'the working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery and wield it for its own purposes”.

Allende’s mistake was not expecting a coup and preparing for it appropriately. There’s nothing wrong with achieving power through a bourgeois election, the hard part is keeping it. However I would argue this is even harder in an actual revolution than in an Allende type situation, given that a guy like Allende had an “legitimate” public mandate and even some libs may side with you if they think you represent the protection of the constitution/state against a fascist coup.

American posters hadn't yet come to terms with the fact that their country is 95% lumpens

I'm not deluded enough to think socdems can do anything in the plutocratic nightmare of America but I've observed dipshit liberals in my chapter slowly become more radical and the local regional working group (that is becoming a full chapter) is far more radical, and most of the core membership is from an anarchist farming co-op. It's a big tent organization where nearly all the decision making happens at the local chapter level so an overall analysis of the organization is nearly pointless.

How is America lumpen? In fact I think America is problematic because of the petit-bourgies more than the lumpenproles.

2016 was the year of going from liberalism to some vague umbrella "leftism", of jacobin, zizek, chapo, "democratic socialism", bernie etc.
It's simply a process many went through during and after the US elections, socdem isn't as hot anymore cause they became communists or tapered off and left

I came here as socdem gang back in 2016 myself, I'm proper leftist now in no small part due to hanging out here a lot but I still post shit like this so apparently I'm not quite pure enough for this board's current tastes. It doesn't harm my ego much tho considering this board seems to follow meme of the year ideology on full display when a large chunk adopted Bookchin and Rohhhhava wholeheartedly.

Thanks for not adressing my point btw

People forget about the large social democratic tradition and its connection with the Marxist movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Strategy has to be adapted to the conditions we see ourselves in. Now obviously we haven't seen strong social democratic parties have any real power or revolutionary program since the 70's but that isn't a reason not to build them. Revolution in the sense of violent overthrow of the existing state and seizing clear power is also obviously a straight forward Marxist position, and we know that it works. But we also know that it isn't a suitable strategy at all times. It is a suitable strategy during large scale imperialist wars, economic collapse and general weakening of the state that exists today. From a Marxist standpoint I think its clear the strategy that should be in place at this moment in first world "liberal democracies" is, and that in the case that the option of violent overthrow makes itself realistic then moving to that strategy is of course necessary. Both Marx and Engels believed socialism could be achieved through social democratic politics in liberal democracies. This isn't also to say this path won't be violent, it will involve armed workers defending the decisions and demands they have made when the mass popular movement is met with bourgeois and state reaction. This is just my 2 labor vouchers on the subject, but I really think socialist and communist parties are missing the mark in strategy and forming mass popular movements with radical demands.

Good take. The sad fact is that nothing to the left of social democratic politics is viable in Burgerland, so if you insist on ideological purity then you will wind up an irrelevant LARPer. Given that you may end up perpetuating a bad image of the left in doing this it’s arguably worse than doing nothing. Pragmatically working with socdems while maintaining a principled anti-capitalist position will at the very least get you noticed as an actual ally of the workingclass, somebody who will win battles that improve their lives directly. Then when the time comes, and conditions have made more radical politics more viable, you can intensify your rhetoric and praxis. There’s also the fact that the number one priority for the American left ought to be arresting the country’s rapid slide towards fascism, which will require an alliance with social democrats (not neoliberals though, since the slide to rightist populism and proto-fascism is largely their fault).

Well, I think a lot of people are actually open to more radical positions than it would seem. There is just no strong party that can see that defends working class interests and only working class interests. Even the left liberal soc dems that we have now barely represent the working class and cling to bourgeois ideology when the going gets rough, but even so we have seen people get involved in politics over people like Bernie. I'm not saying we should de-radicalize our demands, I quite agree we need to keep our radical anti-capitalist demands at the forefront of our politics. Yes there is a long way to go in burgerland with regards to mass popular movements and radical politics. But it starts with gaining the trust of the working class through leading struggles to empower workers in the political realm to the point where workers feel comfortable in rank and file direct politics. This is probably a bit incoherent and I'm not the greatest at getting out clear points but I think you get the gist.

Not really part of the conversation but I've been wondering what to do in Burgerland too. I think really what we need is a United front of various left-leaning even liberal groups to pass either legislation or popular referendums (in the states that have them, like California) for political reform. Particularly reforms that would allow for proportional representation and more European style third parties to rise up would be a major step towards the formation of an anti-capitalist labor party here.

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I'm not sure a united front tactic would be useful. Social democratic parties and candidates, yes, but we need to fully separate ourselves from the liberal left at all costs. As for referendum, I think that it should be an immediate goal of the left to get referendum in states where they do not have them and for a nationwide right to referendum. Moving forward from that stance having socialist parties backing more radical policy changes than could come from legislature.