What exactly is the endgame for transwomen...

I like them :3

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This in particular has always struck me as transparently dishonest. Everyone knows that sex is highly bimodal. Why would a tiny amount of people with chromosomal/hormonal disorders that cause abnormal development invalidate the nearly universally applicable categories of male and female.

I’m not pretending that my aversion is rational. I just plain don’t like them. I probably shouldn’t even call it hate, since it’s not that strong. Trannies creep me out so I’d prefer if they were trans somewhere away from me, and I resent the role they’ve played in politics and want them to stay away from it as a result. Simple as that.

Still is for me, just leave me alone about it kek I barely mention I'm one in my posts here even if these threads come up I usually ignore em.

What exactly do you mean by this? I understand I may not be the "ideal face of leftism" in terms of tactics for obvious reasons but I also understand I could be useful to leftist organization on an individual level in some ways.

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I mean that focusing on trans issues beyond a very minimal level is a waste of time and does more harm than good for the movement. However I’m staunchly against a policy of exclusion for a party or org of anybody based on gender identity, race, sexuality, etc. That being said I would be wary if a lot of trans people did join an org I was involved with mainly because that could lead to more focus on those issues.

What are “normal” people?

How come you social fascists always say “we can’t face alienation! We have to kowtow to chauvinism racism and prejudice!!”

Fucking idiot. You get the gulag too.

Has anybody here actually joined an organization?

You say yourself it’s “irrational” that’s because you’re an idealistic fascist. Not left. Good thing your brand of philistine fools don’t actually do things in the real world. You’re not alienating or propagandizing anyone. You’re nobody.

I should also add that I’m also perfectly willing to work with trans people in a professional capacity, but that I wouldn’t want to associate with them any more than I needed to in that context. Also I would show the proper respect (in a professional sense) to any trans comrade who made themselves useful to the movement. Basically I won’t harass you or be a dick at a party meeting, and if you do good work I’ll support you. But don’t expect me to support an increased emphasis on trans issues, and don’t expect me to want to hang out with you after the meeting.

Make yourself useful first. By turning yourself into a re-education camp.

There are currently no such camps in existence.

Lmao I guess Stalin was a fascist too since he sent gays to the gulag. So was Engels for that matter since he called homosexuality “bourgeois fun”. Take your liberal bullshit elsewhere.

If you think that social issues aren’t laughably insignificant compared to class struggle then you are an idealist. If focusing on trans issues alienates cis workers then it objectively harms your movement.

Normal people are those who do not suffer from gender dysphoria or any other mental or physical impairment.

Anyone who does more than LARP at socialism on Chan realizes your brand of alienating chauvinism only exists on the internet. Pol “converts” who never actually eradicated their fascist views. In the real world, trans folk are party member at disproportionately high rates. Virgin losers like you are not.

user, I'm sorry to break it to you, but that's partly why socialism isn't getting anywhere. Because the crazy idpolers are running the show.

Did you ever stop to consider that this may be one of the reasons why communist parties are all irrelevant in the west?

Homosexuality was legal in the Soviet Union you idiot. Also, it’s 150 years beyond Engels and we know better now you god damn fool. Soviets also called Asians “barbaric”

You should fucking know better you fool

Ah why don’t you tell us why they’re irrelevant, chauvinist LARPer. Stay in your bedroom where you belong

Perhaps in the US and Western Europe. I doubt, for example, that the CPI is like that.

What do you mean know better? Know what exactly? I’m not saying that trans people are evil boogeymen sneaking into women’s bathrooms to rape little girls. I’m saying I don’t want to associate with them personally, and I don’t see why I need a reason.

No that isn’t why at all, you immaterialist fool. You morons don’t even understand dialectics. Your idiocy is rooted in idealism.

How about actually reading Marx huh

Fine by me really, if you were my friend or family beforehand I'd kind of have an issue as it'd be more of a personal matter, but you aren't.

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CPI is casteist and revisionist. Come to find out that trans stuff isn’t such a big deal in that part of the world either.

could you clowns take it back to fucking youtube comments or something? holy shit

The "inner truth" or "true identity" or any personal conviction about it has just as much basis as the belief in a god or in many gods.

And it is just as divorced with reality. The harsh observation of existing as a highly organized state of matter that is the human being is that you are stuck with what you are made of. Any weird feelings, dissociations, dysphorias and so on are just a part of being imperfect. Because this complex state of matter is prone to errors, and despite all error-correction mechanisms that emerged to prevent this mass of molecules from turning into a pile of goo, it is not all perfect.

And to put it simply. A person is not just simply contained in their mind only. A person is their mind, their body, their social relationships, their past experiences, and so on.

People feel like they want to die every day, people feel like other people are icky, people feel many different things, they might feel they are Jesus Christ or Napoleon Bonaparte. They are convinced that god exists. Well those are just feelings, names and words, categories.

But at the end it is live and let live, and let people do with themselves what they want to do, even if they want to die.

Funny you mention that, since I do have a good friend and comrade who recently came out as non binary. Tbh I think the whole thing is stupid, but because he had earned my respect beforehand it doesn’t really bother me, and I even play along with his pronouns (at least when he’s around).

Nobody fucking cares dude. Your opinion isn’t important. Particularly when you don’t even contribute anything.

stfu transphobe

And again, nobody cares what you think. Who respects you? Why the hell should anyone?

Precisely, it is not a big deal. There is no need to attack it nor is there a need to defend it.

Read Stirner

You know youre starting to sound like a real BITCH with all this name caling.

Because they're pushing for pretty big changes(in the real world) and getting them heard really fast(makes you wonder how fast people would consider them if it wasn't mostly straight white middle class and up men transitioning) and they run rampant in nearly all leftist spaces?

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It does need defending. Because it’s a right wing talking point. It’s chauvinism. And chauvinism needs to be eradicated.

Aw are your feelings hurt, LARPer? Good, fuck off.

...

Made up. Oh no the shadowy trans cabal is demanding they not be excluded from jobs or murdered for their identity! Oh fuck!

Seriously this is straight out of pol. Is this board being brigades?

Isn't it the epitome of idealism to imagine that you can change your biological sex that you were born as lmao?

You won’t shut up about it

All hes saying is dont be a self centered asshole and make it all about trans issues and instead focus on class issues cause otherwise youre destroying the party.

there is literally nothing wrong with this and we support them in this, but to pretend this is where it stops is pretty dishonest.

...

You not understanding biology and misusing terms is idealism. It’s gender you dick. You really believe people go out of their way to be discriminated against? To be murdered and shunned and fired with no legal protection?

That’s peak idealism. It’s fascism.

Who’s making it all about trans issues? The bigots in this thread are. You’re creating a fake problem out of your own prejudice.

Pretty sure that nobody is against speaking out against transphobic violence or systematic discrimination. In fact this is what I meant earlier when I mentioned “a very minimal level” of focus on trans issues. Rather the question is to what extent they dominate the rhetoric and discourse of the party, as well as a genuine assessment of how emphasis on these issues affects our standing with non-trans people.

Where does it stop then? Have material proof? Plenty of trans people in our real world actually existing party. You’re making up a fake problem to divide the left. Begone

“The party”

How the hell would you even know, LARPer? Your point of reference is Chan websites

How is it about gender and not sex?

...

uhhhhhhh….lol

They are different terms. Why don’t you educate yourself before speaking on matters you don’t understand. There is academic research on this topic.
Typical leftypol tho. You idiots try to speak about Marx and dialectics and have never read anything beyond Wikipedia.

I’ve been a member of orgs before fag, and one that spent an annoying amount of time and effort on trans issues despite us not even having any trans members, and operating in a rural mining town with a minimal queer population. It was fucking retarded.

Yes basically. Ever done any material research on this or do you just base this on stuff you read on message boards? Marxism is a science. You should analyze these things as any Marxist would. You have access to this academic research. You being a lazy piece of shit isn’t an excuse.

Explain it, if you can teach it then you will have proven your mastery of the topic.

You speak like this you’d get kicked out of the party I belong to which consequently is the largest ML party in the US. I dunno what “org” you belonged to, but based on your demeanor in this thread, I think you’re a liar. I think you pretend to have read ML theory but in reality you’re nothing but a bigot

Mind sharing what organization, unless it's some exclusively local org that'd compromise your location or something?

Gender is socially determined. People get socialized into having a gender. This means gender is a social construct and if someone wants to change it, then they sure can. After all gender is just a performance and they can choose as what to perform.

I’m on a phone smoking cigarettes. Just google scholar it. It’s not my “mastery” I’m just not a god damn bigot.

CPUSA does not count.

Pretty much. If people feel more comfortable as a different gender, why the fuck should any of us care? It’s a personal choice. Marxists do not hate personal freedoms. It’s not “bourgeois” to make a choice about your identity particularly when it opens you up to hate.

Yes I'm aware of these distinctions. What separates trans people who want to behave in a way typical of the opposite sex and those who have body dysphoria and want to reconfigure their genitals? Is not the latter case a matter of sex and not gender?

CPUSA is not a ML party, it’s a fbi training camp

Revolutionary Student Movement. It’s the youth wing of the RCP in Canada.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Communist_Party_of_Canada

Gay is OK but transgender is just fucked in mind

What's with all the ""jokes"" about stealing my toothbrush in your communities then? Explain that one!

Checkmate atheists

Don't worry I'll share my 3 month old toothbrushes with you.

No thanks
Only redeeming feature is they actually showed up at Charlottesville and contributed to manpower on the left-ish side

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It’s a matter of aligning your body to match what your mind thinks. As far as I know, there is not a distinction beyond the realignment people go through with the process which can be expensive and be a massive change.

Again I’m not an expert on such things. I’ve read some research when I started finding out about this stuff. There are better resources to consult than me. My point is: they do as they please and we should support their freedom to be comfortable in their bodies and free from oppression

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Ahahaha the bob avakian cult

Yeah I dropped them pretty quick for a wide range of reasons. They were mainly a bunch of dipshits, although interestingly enough I may become active again (been sitting out the last while due to school) and end up co-opting the remnants of their chapter in my town. Most of the crazies left and the only people still in the org here are pretty decent, but the RSM label is utter poison so I’m hoping to recruit them to a new org.

It’s actually a different party, they just have a similar name.

that's what we're wondering, but anyone that spends any time in leftist spaces sees that it goes a lot farther than that, it goes into

legally redefining what a female is(thereby making it almost meaningless by stating it's based on identity)
shutting down discussions on issues that affect only cis women(due to it being transphobic)
promoting rape and physical harm towards women that do not agree with trans rights activists and citing trans murder rates as justification

No u

Fair enough. I dunno what went in your cadre, but *exclusively* focusing on trans issues is not really a platform that I have seen. There are non-communist groups for that. We try to reach masses through housing issues mainly where I’m from. Some cadre infiltrate unions. Nonetheless solidarity with LGBT or colonized minorities is critical in the fight against imperialism. Focusing on these divisions and undermining their struggle is reactionary and serves the ruling class. Look I’m a straight white dude so I have no special interest in this. You can have your personal beliefs, no one is forcing you to hang out with trans people. Plenty of proletarians have some reactionary views. But check that shit at the door is my point

Fake news. Get off the internet some time it’s warped your brain

There is no endgame if the ones financing the game stop the funding. Transsexuals today are nothing but political pawns.

While I did find the amount of time spent on trans issues stupid, I wouldn’t say it was extremely excessive, but it was definitely more than was appropriate given the situation. Either way that wasn’t the reason I left, that had more to do with the extremely LARPey nature of the group and some really stupid vandalism shit pulled by some of the members that led to one of them getting arrested and pissed off the entire town.

Oh I just looked them up, they're not associated with Bob Avakian Gang AKA RevCom USA? Forget my automatic nosehold post then. They could be just as bad tho for all I know and from what you say.

Well they’re not a cult, which is a plus. But they are LARPers and literally who’s as far as 99.999999% of Canadian proles are concerned. I myself hadn’t heard of them until after I joined RSM.

Wew

They were the only communist group in town so I joined them by default. I probably should have put more effort into researching them first, maybe then I could have avoided the whole mess.

I think you did right joining them just on account of them being the only group in town, I mean look at your post here , apparently you met some people you might be interested in organizing with further outside of their chapter, so obviously the experience wasn't without benefit.

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I'm anti idpol but that first pic is a false equivalence, trans people actually have different brains and the medical community recommends the best treatment to stop their dysphoria is to socially transition. Attack helicopter jokes and I identity as a toaster memes are stupid and take away from the VERY VERY real issues they suffer.

Also you can be anti-idpol but not approve of killings,discrimination of lgbt+,black people etc. Not calling you personally out but there's been a increase of people who think being anti-idpol means denying rights to marginalized people, ignoring lgbt,minority issues. (completely ignoring not just focusing on worker stuff) and being sociall y conservative because something something being gay people existing and not being straight up murdered or having medical rights revoked somehow stops you from still focusing on worker control of the means of production.

Same guy. Yeah that sounds like bullshit. I’m in urban California and when we’re dealing with like housing or immigration issues, it would seem pointless for internal discussion to fixate on such issues. Gay and trans people are just regular comrades treated equally but with understanding that they face a unique struggle. Sucks that you had that experience but I wouldn’t fixate too much on it. Sorry for the hostility, sometimes on user boards it’s hard to distinguish between the leak from Zig Forums and people who are acting in good faith who I just don’t agree with.

Current leftist TRAs claim you do not need dysphoria to be trans
sjwiki.org/wiki/Truscum

I’m “anti idpol” as well but I don’t use the term because there’s so much racism around it. For example I know a Latina woman who became the boss and used her position to hire Latinos over equally or more qualified blacks. That’s some bullshit and stuff we need to be against. On the other hand, lots of people are like “yo blacks need to shut up about national liberation struggle, it’s about class and we’re all the same and face the same challenges!”

Tbh one of my prime reasons for having an aversion to trans issues is the relatively tiny number of people that these issues affect. Other “idpol” issues I’m far more responsive to. For example my RSM chapter had a major focus on indigenous issues, but I had absolutely no problem with that because there is a huge indigenous population here.

Anti-idpol is VERY nuanced and hard to get right. There are a lot of former Zig Forums turned Zig Forums and teenagers that took their feels > reals and just made it leftist, beware.
Most people here are very in favor of the goals most SJWs have (specifically, liberation from all types of oppression). But we disagree very strongly on a lot of fundamental shit, including what gives rise to identitarian chauvinism and how to solve it.
Here are some articles you should read. Don't necessarily agree with all of them, can't remember all of them either, and some might be liberal idpol or bad philosophy mixed with eloquent retardedness, but it should paint a wider picture than just 'muh feminists/trans are anti-leftist'.

Essentialism and the Problem of Identity Politics
Lawrence Jarach
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lawrence-jarach-essentialism-and-the-problem-of-identity-politics
Against Identity Politics
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lupus-dragonowl-against-identity-politics

Identity Crisis
viewpointmag.com/2017/03/16/identity-crisis/

Identity Politics Is Neoliberalism
bennorton.com/adolph-reed-identity-politics-is-neoliberalism/

Clinton Manipulates Language of ‘Intersectionality’ To Preserve Support From Minority Voters
shadowproof.com/2016/02/28/clinton-intersectionality-language-interview/

White Purity
viewpointmag.com/2017/01/06/white-purity/

Class is more intersectional than intersectionality
imperiumadinfinitum.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/class-is-more-intersectional-than-intersectionality/

If you're only going to read one thing, read this:
Exiting the Vampire Castle
opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/mark-fisher/exiting-vampire-castle

Videos, because I know you're a lazy fuck.
ContraPoints
See all videos that might have anything to do with idpol. Any that contains the words 'hate, racism, idpol, feminism, sjw' etc. (I think she lurks here time to time. I once criticized her videos here almost two years ago and my criticism was retarded, I apologize.)
youtube.com/user/ContraPoints/videos

Zizek on idpol
Don't have any specific videos bookmarked, search on youtube.

Chomsky on postmodernists
I actually strongly disagree with Chomsky on everything he says about this and I would say he is objectively wrong, but interesting nonetheless.

Zero books interviews with Angela Nagle
More ideas on the current state of right and ""left"" idpol. Or just search of Angle Nagle on youtube and listen to a video more than an hour long. Can't remember if I saw this one, but this guy is my next recommendation: youtube.com/watch?v=VkJWnWjqYBA

Thaddeus Rusell interview with Douglas Lain (of Zero Books)
youtube.com/watch?v=Gd8ke0_jQSg
Interesting insight. I suspect Thaddeus is right wing, but he puts forth interesting ideas.

Unironically watch PregnantU
Ridiculously identitarian, filled with outright lies, and blatantly obvious propaganda.
This is the propaganda being fed by rich right wing fuckers to the masses. Useful to understand why and how the arguments are based on lies (like contradicting wikipedia lies), logical fallacies, feels > reals, etc. The arguments are so shitty, I don't expect you'll have a problem. You will rage that people could be so retarded as to believe that shit.
Don't watch too much or it will ruin your day, just be aware that this shit exists.
Don't comment on the videos, don't waste your energy.
youtube.com/watch?v=rc7VUoytoU4

Bookchin on idpol
Search youtube

Some wikipedia articles worth reading.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_reproduction
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identitarian_movement
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics
Also read on the history of LGBT movements and the Civil rights movement. Read about Malcom X, black nationalism, black panthers. These movments have been doused heavily in idpol yet successfully reduced oppression to their identity group. Try to imagine a "class first" approach to (black) civil rights and how that would have worked out. Try to understand what are the similarities and differences of modern identities (LGBT, black, latinx, white, aryan, etc) with that of black people during the civil rights movement.

Please improve this post or make a new better one, and repost it in the daily "sjws suck amirite" thread.

Maybe replacing bookchin on idpol with parenti would be better…