Why doesn't self-described "socialist" China which is ruled by the "communist" party have free / universal health care, but other capitalist countries like Taiwan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Thailand and many others do?
Even Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela which have been sanctioned to hell still manage to provide it at little to no cost for their citizens. China is now the second largest economy and first or second place (depending which numbers you count) in industrial output yet the government is STILL talking about privatisation and subsidising private health insurers instead of taking the single national insurance system route that Taiwan and South Korea took. What the hell is the point of "socialism with Chinese characteristics" if neighbouring capitalist countries with smaller economies manage to have better standards of living AND income equity?
didn't know leftpol was so racist or maybe its ameribots
Luis Thompson
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Asher Brooks
fuck off, liberal
Josiah Bailey
Kek
Owen Torres
Yeah they also don't have FREE as in freedoms bourgeois elections f*ck china bugmen
Ethan Hernandez
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Carter Lee
Supporting an oppressive capitalist state over Asian Comrades is racist.
Aaron Brooks
Universal healthcare isn’t socialism, but not having it is capitalism.
Lincoln Torres
Big thinks.
Nathaniel Baker
why? i think you guys are so confused about what these terms actually mean. i reckon you've never actually read any of the literature. this stuff is a science, you know; not feels.
Luis Rogers
Reminder the poverty stricken Mao era had healthcare as a right, China today has zero excuse not to provide universal quality healthcare
Luis Anderson
Obviously public healthcare isnt socialism, but there's literally no excuse for any socialist country (especially one as big and rich as China) to not have it.
Ryder Brown
Deng and Xi are niggers. Dengoids please fuck off back to twitter, we don't need you here
Tyler Reed
This, basically. If you think socialism would not include universal healthcare you are not a socialist.
Nolan Adams
Literally SJW tier idpol shit lmao
Caleb Morris
China is a market-leninist worker's state with deformed characteristics
Ryan Lewis
Asians are autistic ant people
Gavin Phillips
Probably just naive kids responding to the massive outpouring of anti-chinese propaganda that happened over the last week in the west. China's antagonism towards the US at this point in history as well as its own Marxist heritage are what make it socialist. Even if it didn't claim to be socialist it would still be working to establish a socialist future by ending US hegemony.
Probably just naive kids responding to the massive outpouring of anti-russian propaganda that happened over the last week in the west. Russia's antagonism towards the US at this point in history as well as its own Marxist heritage are what make it socialist. Even if it didn't claim to be socialist it would still be working to establish a socialist future by ending US hegemony.
bro theyre just waiting to do it and then theyll totally own the capitalists
Ian Roberts
socialism is just global powers posturing against one another
Hunter Gomez
china is racist and sexist
Aaron Baker
Instead of simply providing health care, the Chinese government implements hundreds of security guards and metal detectors per hospital in order to subdue patients unable to afford treatment.
To answer your question It's because the CCP literally aren't socialist anymore "CWCC" and the "China Dream" are just calls for Imperialist SocialDemocracy and a Sinoized version of American exceptionalism
Healthcare in itself is not socialism but it has been. A staple of a socialist society for a healthcare system to be available to all members of the society
Lincoln Rivera
Its Indians
Benjamin Roberts
You're a fucking retard.
Dylan Anderson
this
Mason Gutierrez
Everyone is getting defensive but it IS racism
Xavier Miller
The size of a country is basically exactly the INVERSE the problem as you pose it– the larger the country the more difficult it is, and you can say flat out that a country as poor and large as china absolutely could not support a universal healthcare system. But China has had many massive programs to increase healthcare access to it's population, which was mostly rural, and many cities provide health insurance to their citizens.
Gabriel Turner
Since 2006, China has been undertaking the most significant health care reforms since the Mao era. The government launched the New Rural Co-operative Medical Care System (NRCMCS) in 2005 in an overhaul of the healthcare system, particularly intended to make it more affordable for the rural poor. Under the NRCMCS, some 800 million rural residents gained basic, tiered medical coverage, with the central and provincial governments covering between 30-80% of regular medical expenses.[5] Availability of medical insurance has increased in urban areas as well. By 2011 more than 95% of the total population of China had basic health insurance, though out-of-pocket costs and the quality of care varied significantly.[4] The health infrastructure in Beijing, Shanghai, and other major cities were approaching developed-world standards, and are vastly superior compared to those operated in the rural interior.
Andrew White
This is straight up liberal bullshit. Even if this were true, the central government could very easily command the provinces to implement their own public healthcare systems (while supplying them the necessary funding). Cuba is significantly poorer than china, and yet it has a universal healthcare system.
Julian Gray
Take a look at the staggering lack of information in this thread. A dozen (not racist, :^) )people came in to malign the country but obviously what all of them knew combined about the healthcare system in China could fit on the back of a postage stamp.
Really makes you think!
Tyler Thomas
No they could not. In fact one of the most difficult problems they have is implementing policy in a consistent and unified way across all provinces. The first thing you should know if that the Chinese government is not the absolute dictatorship it is portrayed as in the west. This is besides the fact that there is not a generic model that they can adopt that will satisfy the needs of the whole country, that has many parts that are still underdeveloped, and a shortage of trained doctors. A universal healthcare system cannot snapped into existence.
Aaron Rodriguez
Cuba's per capita GDP is 7,600 USD, and China's is 8,800 USD.
Cameron Hall
Go back.
Is this somehow meant to refute my point?
Ryder Cooper
It was an attack on your credibility, since you were clearly talking out of your ass.
Dominic Adams
I'm not going back. Being a socialist means being firmly anti-racist more than it means government funded healthcare.
Chase Price
There is a real threat of pathological sinophobes and chauvinist social democrats jumping on the anti-China foreign policy train but this recent wave of CCP and PRC criticism comes as a reaction to braindead dengoids shitting up the board with their revisionism apologism.
I think the CCP criticism is insanely weak and mostly based on whatever they imagine China is rather than anything about what it actually is. At the same time I've notice a lot of hot-takists giving their mastermind grand theories on China lately and they just make me want to cry.
Combined with the imperious attitude of the big Western papers to absolutely enforce whatever the editorial line ("black mirror!") I have a feeling actual insight into/knowledge of China all over the place is going to crater at a speed directly proportional to the volume of content about it.
Blake Phillips
You're right, China is a impenetrable place basically behind an iron curtain and the only way one could ever get accurate information about the country is to talk to a Chinese citizen. Who's repeating tired Western imperialist tropes now bitch?
It's not like anyone here could've possibly lived there or used the country's health care system or anything like that.
Justin Murphy
It's Iran all over again. Suddenly the catalog is plastered with anti-PRC threads taking a principled stand in solidarity against islamist sandniggers revisionist CPC.
It couldn't be a reaction to dengist memers since they've been here for a whole fucking year in sporadic China threads. However now, when the US and its lackeys start going full yellow peril mode, we get more and more anti-PRC threads, really making me think here.
David Gonzalez
You are not a socialist.
Noah Wright
Why would I need to do that? It's just ironic how you talk about China in these orientalist ways
John Davis
China is clearly rapidly developing but it's not socialist in any way or form and thus does not deserve much more than critical support against US imperialism.
Nah, now that Zig Forums is jumping on the cybernetics train, dengoids and other market "socialist" are spiralling further and further into retardation and neoclassical economics. Stop shilling for China lmao
Gabriel Reed
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William Ward
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Joseph Bailey
Succdems:
Liberals:
Dengists:
Nathan Harris
It doesn't even really deserve that tbh. China is probably the #2 or #3 imperialist power in the world, its not even comparable to Syria or Iran. The correct (or at least properly Leninist) line would be to promote revolutionary defeatism among both Chinese and Western workers.
Lucas Turner
America must be defeated first. There can be no compromise here.
Noah Russell
Literally this. Although they aren't perfect, China is our only reasonable hope. They have to play the long-game by surviving until the collapse of the American empire. The USSR failed because the capitalist West had the economic resources to destroy its socialist economy. China is avoiding that fate by beating the West at their own game before moving to socialism.
Benjamin Gonzalez
t. You in 1914 as you vote to got to war in the Reichstag
Daniel Fisher
Reasonable in what sense? Hope for what? It’s a porky country, and very obviously so, they aren’t any more of a hope than any other imperialist power. China as a nation may be a different story, but their government just another pack of porkies.
Jonathan Morales
Germany wasn't the global hegemonic power. Your analogy doesn't make any sense.
Kayden Perry
Germany was not an ideologically Marxist country. China is. Yes they're revisionist right now but its only a temporary measure to outlast American global dominance.
Ryder Wood
The USSR had its NEPmen and kulaks. I don't agree with everything China does, I certainly think they could treat workers better, but they're building towards socialism. If they were completely porky, why would state schools teach students Marxist theory? The porkies are only temporary and Xi is already curbing their power within the party. There's no reason to believe China will stay capitalist forever.
Jaxon Hall
You REALLY need to kill yourself you slimy cunt. I can't wait till china ascends and makes you petty-boug westerners starve.
Kayden Thompson
Isn't this powerplay of imperialist politics basically what ruined the Second International?
Brody Edwards
The point of this thread is to be anti-China propaganda. I'm not being cute. Read the OP. That's kind of weird isn't it? Why did the OP decide to come here just to post a propaganda thread against China? Are there not enough people out there who hate China?
Dominic Baker
It's not really a "powerplay" if it is basically just everyone vs America.
Jackson Morales
This is some really stupid shit to say rofl. Let me ask you: Do Chinese citizens have a Black Mirror-esque social credit score?
Carter Jones
There is literally no evidence that this is not the long-term trend of China and that these "temporary" measures are just temporary.
Brandon Scott
Germany is China in this scenario, Britain was the global hegemonic power. Lenin explicitly denounced the SPD as social imperialists for voting in favour of the war. What you’re doing now is no better, the only solution is revolutionary defeatism.
If they were really Marxists would the arrest students for advocating Marxist ideas?
Xavier Cox
Yes, there is evidence, it's within the theory itself. China is in the primary stage of socialism. In order to develop to socialism, they had to develop their productive forces. Some CCP planners and economists believed China would be in the primary stage for 100 years, but it's looking like that isn't the case and it's going to be ready for socialism far sooner. Once the American Empire falls China will have far more freedom to act since they will no longer have to deal with massive Western economic and military pressure. The USSR fell because it couldn't last against this while China is being more pragmatic and is playing along with the West's game and building its strength until the time is right. To believe that China, a nation that teaches its children Marxism, will never leave capitalism is just utterly naive.
Kayden Morgan
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Oliver Evans
Do you have genuine fucking brain problems? Why do you think the situation now is DIRECTLY comparable to scenarios in the past?
I'm not even strawmanning, you KEEP on bringing up the early 20th century like it's a 1:1 analogue to the present. Do you believe this? If you think there are SOME similarities then state that - from what I see you literally think the situation is exactly equal.
Lucas Walker
You're like the type of fucking idiot who compares gays dancing in the streets to the fall of Rome. You know, like stefan molyneux.
Michael Scott
Obviously it’s not a 1:1 comparison, but there are some parallels that hold true, mainly that China is a secondary imperialist power aiming to unseat the dominant imperialist power. Lenin clearly outlined the proper response to this situation and I fail to see why his analysis is not applicable here.
Jack Moore
China is going about reaching socialism on a different way, a way that is unique to the material conditions of China. I don't know about these supposed arrests, but China values stability. They have a massive plan for economic growth that has been working very well for them and it's very close to finally paying off. I'm not going to pretend I know more about how to get China to socialism than the Chinese government and their economic planners. If China wanted to abandon socialism, they'd ditch the Marxist curriculum and start teaching them Friedman, but they're not, because they're committed to reaching socialism, and they're getting closer and closer every day.
Joshua Wright
You mean the same billionaires who are losing their clout since Xi took over? google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6e012f42-1dae-11e8-aaca-4574d7dabfb6 Xi has been consolidating power and cracking down on corruption. It's obvious he gives a shit about reaching China's economic goals or he'd just kick back and let that shit happen. The fact that the West is terrified of him should be enough to understand this.
Colton Smith
You mean Xi “Net worth in the hundreds of millions” Jinping?
Lincoln Edwards
That's good news! I'm fucking glad because otherwise the world's second or third largest economy not providing even a basic social safety net or welfare for its citizens and being ruled by a Communist Party is kind of fucked, wouldn't you agree?
Or they could just continue their own imperialist aims. I'm sure once the Amerikkan empire goes they'll stop exploiting Africa and expanding their footprint in the Middle East and Asia.
Their teaching of "Marxism" is simply tied to teaching patriotism to the Party and thus the Chinese state. It's taught for its value in promoting Chinese nationalism, in the same way American kids are indoctrinated with jingoistic bullshit at school.
This. China’s teaching of Marxism is about as deep and relevant as America’s teaching of classical liberalism. The actions of their state in no way reflect the teachings. While Dengism was rooted in Marxist logic, it’s that same logic that dictates that once a state falls under the sway of capital, it will come to serve the interests of capital. Once this happens the only option is revolution, the idea that the CCP could maintain its ideological integrity while subject to the logic of capital is pure idealism.
Xavier Carter
Russia is socialist because it teaches children that Stalin was good. It is inconceivable that a bourgeois state would use socialist aesthetics to promote national chauvinism. Saying that Russia is capitalist is simply racist against Slavs. Do NOT presume to know better than the Russian government about their unique material conditions and how socialism should be implemented. It doesn't matter that Russia is ruled by oligarchs because they develop material conditions for socialism. Don't @ me or you're CIA
Come on, this is a fucking normie "why do you have an iPhone" tier argument. The Chinese people are fond of Xi because they know he's determined to make China the world leader, and that things are getting better there.
This is just fucking blatantly false. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_China?wprov=sfla1 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_welfare_in_China?wprov=sfla1 Why would China continue its imperialism when they're heavily investing in automation and AI? They're retooling their economy and aiming to be the world's leader in these and other technological fields by 2025, and the money they're putting into doing that shows how serious they are about it. It's obvious that China realizes that this is the future and it will spread this idea to the countries it influences. As for education, America teaches little of the political philosophy of the government to it's children. Yeah they talk about the three branches and separation of powers, but other than that its all neoliberal capitalist propaganda. China is teaching it's kids how the economy develops per Marx' theories of economics and history. They're preparing the next generation to take over and guide the transition to socialism that will be taking place in the near future.
China and the US global economic system are far too interdependent. When the American empire goes it will drag China down to the level of Russia. Then we will finally have multipolarity and a chance at socialism once again.
Levi Mitchell
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Isaiah Hernandez
You linked a wiki section to social welfare schemes in China, but did you actually read that section? It's all about how the schemes essentially don't function properly lol
Henry Myers
Yes, China is in a capitalist mode of production. In a perfect world yeah it'd be great if all countries could work together to speed up economic development and build socialism in an efficient and fair way, but unfortunately we don't live in a world like that. We live in a world where any socialist movement that sprouts up anywhere is immediately squashed by America at the behest of the capitalists who control it, and so we need to be pragmatic. I know, China isn't perfect. If there were a better option, I'd support it, but there simply isn't. America is not going to become socialist any time soon, or any other developed Western country for that matter. Thus, China is our only reasonable hope.
Norway has the highest HDI in the world. Should we therefore cow-tow to Norway and start sucking off succ-dems? No. Because Norway is still capitalist?
Ever consider they're committing imperialism in order to accumulate wealth for themselves and actually make the financing of those prospects possible?
I suppose they are, considering that most students are already protesting against the Chinese government, who in turn crushes those orgs.
Lol if you brainlets have a better more realistic path to socialism, I'm all ears. If you have a better way idea on how to defeat the Western multinational corporations that control the largest military and economic power on Earth, please let me know. Because we've been organizing and sign-waving in the West for fucking decades now and things have only gotten worse. If you honestly believe that America, where an incredibly moderate social democrat like Bernie Sanders was considered to be the reincarnation of Lenin, will be moving to socialism and breaking the power of the military-industrial complex any time soon, you are absolutely delusional. I support China because they're the most likely country that can defeat the US and they're ideologically Marxist. They are the only place that the US government cannot effectively interfere in to squash leftist movements. Until there is a large-scale socialist movement in the West with a reasonable chance of succeeding , I will continue to support China out of a lack of other plausible options.
Evan Moore
Didn't we go through this in the other china hate thread? Pathetic.
You're not all ears, because THE path to socialism is a 21st century Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, which would force you to actually self crit and question the actions and authority of those that call themselves socialist.
Jonathan Scott
Except I do this. I don't know how many times I have to explain this; I do not agree with everything China does. China is not perfect. China does not unwaveringly adhere to Marxism-Leninism and all of its tenets. Yes, I completely and entirely understand this and, as a result, I do not agree with or condone every action, policy or methodology of the Chinese government. However, as there is not a single effective socialist movement in the United States that even remotely stands a chance at successfully taking power, China hastening the collapse of the American empire, filling the power vacuum and using that opportunity to spread Marxist ideals to the rest of the world is really the only realistic successful scenario that I can personally envision taking place. If you have a better idea, I would honestly love to hear it.
If that’s the case then there’s no point in taking sides in this particular confrontation. If anything it validates my point that revolutionary defeatism is the only option, since the collapse of either power would drag the other down with it.
Jaxon Gray
They're not going to topple America and replace global imperialism with socialism, they're going to replace America as the imperialist power keeping everybody beneath their bootheels. Look at their dealings with Israel, Apartheid South Africa, and Duterte's Philippines and tell me this is what emancipatory geopolitics looks like.
Cameron Rodriguez
that doesn't work on me, i'm not the one who claims any criticism of the CPC or China is "racist"
