Would China's "Social Credit System" be allowed in a socialist state?

Would China's "Social Credit System" be allowed in a socialist state?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

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Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/975536363364696064
jungewelt.de/artikel/336748.gerechter-als-die-schufa.html
chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en
xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/03/c_137298542.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Canada
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Socialist state, as in transitional dotp, probably yes. You need ways to suppress the p*rky and their lackeys.

The Social Credit System is really good, passive but far reaching punishments for violating speed limit, not paying fines, harrassing women in public are a great thing. It's a reminder that peoples behaviors have consequences and that you live in a society (HAHAHAHAHAHA he said it!!!).

On the concerns for privacy and human rights nonsense, just LOL if you don't think that the Belize intelligence agency doesn't have a copy of all your data.

How is this different from western consumer credit reporting and shared criminal record databases?

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lol what an idiot, it's going to be used by porky to emotionally manipulate people, threaten their ability to sell their labor and suppress political dissent against the ruling class socialist or otherwise. It's based on completely arbitrary bullshit like how much videogames you play.

Credit reporting is purely financial , this covers social interactions.

With social credit, you can lose social status if a friend or family member of yours does something the government disapproves of and you don't immediately report them.

Poor social credit can result in denial to education, reduced internet speeds (or complete removal of internet privileges), slower processing of official paperwork, reduced travel privileges, denial of promotions at work and lower quality housing.

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LMAO what would a low social credit score mean to a 'gamer' like you anyway? Settle down Timmy you're not going anywhere tonight

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Citation needed. Not from a dumb fuck western rag that's akin to an opinion piece.

twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/975536363364696064

This anti-china hysteria on this board is fucking disgusting.

Chink pls go

Sorry for being anti-capitalist
I won't do it again Deng

ok buddy

I'm a dengist because I dislike orientalist fearmongering and naive, dumbfuck americunts spouting CIA propaganda? Made worse that you think you're a leftist.

He actually provides sources and the actual documentation. Now SHOW ME THE ARTICLES that you've read that do the same.

I'm really just fucking with you, I actually don't think the social credit system is all that bad. It's not that different than like credit scores or voluntary social media that intel agencies use to monitor and make databases

In a sense I think it may be a prerequisite for any post-industrial society to actually function. Metropolitan areas gravitate towards vast cultureless blobs where people search for degenerate hives filled with people who suffer the same patholigies as them. This is only accelerated by 'you deserve it' 'don't let them stop you from being yourself! buy this hammock' marketing. The end result is a society made up of narcissists who are incapable of living alongside one another. You can't go back to the kind of strict, tribal cultures where etiquette and social norms are unavoidable without killing like 99% of the global population. Some new form of enforcing social norms must emerge and this is probably our best bet. The obvious danger is that it will be weaponized against the proletariat and you'll lose social point for not laughing at adverts or wearing a tshirt thats more than a month old.

Sounds appropriate for their current situation. The threat of counter revolution is extremely high with the recession looming on the horizon. The party needs to keep the bourg under control.

Except those things fucking suck.

The only counterrevolution the Chinese government is worried about is from the proles overthrowing the dumpster fire that is the CPC.

i mean i cheer them on for that, but i just find your confusion funny

Lol you dumb crypto lib, things like video game addiction are the result of alienation and not some moral failing like this social credit score is trying to enforce. Of course moralizing social isolation from capitalism is a liberal pastime to run cover for capitalists

It's not technically incompatible, but it is incredibly creepy and dehumanizing. There is no point in achieving communism if society will be unbearable anyway.

alienation from what?

You kidding me, modern China is a neoliberal hell hole

best answer tbh

why not just have it be a credit with no deductions so you aren't fucked forever for minor shit

You didn't answer my question.

Yes I did

The whole point of social credit is constrain the bourg and their lapdogs. It's superior to western credit systems in that it doesn't let those with liquidity do whatever they want while also punishing the poor.

What do you guys think would happen to China if the us economy did badly?
Arent they pretty much self sustaining at this point?

No. It is bad because holding people accountable for their actions will affect people of the color brown the most so it is therefore racist.

Why should it? We can keep porky controlled just by leaking financial data and reactionaries can just be punched in the face by the general public. Giving that much control to the goverment always ends badly

Finally an entryism that can work.

Is this thread a joke?

'no'

I'm not saying something like that Chinese system will come, whether we're going socialist or not, I'm saying something like that, and actually worse, is already here. And it was already in place before you were born. Several such systems. And it isn't feasible to outlaw them. The data is out there, and it is used. And how could you possibly know that an employer screening candidates isn't making use of that data? And so are bankers and landlords.

The newspaper junge Welt had a short and lucid article about the western double-standard: jungewelt.de/artikel/336748.gerechter-als-die-schufa.html Sorry, it's in German, but I can give you the title: "More just than the Schufa". The Schufa is Germany's most important data-collecting institution when it comes to determining the credit-worthiness of individuals. (I had to pay a fee to get a Schufa report about myself when looking for a flat. Some landlords wanted to know.) The decisions by Schufa have an impact on your life like making laws, yet this is a private company, and how exactly they reach their decisions is not transparent at all.

Imagine you could improve your credit-worthiness by doing something from a list of activities that looks like a boy scout came up with that, like donating blood. That's what the Chinese are doing. And it's transparent what makes the score go up or down. This makes it objectively less shitty than what we have in the west.

Yeah I'm sure whoever is in charge of docking social points won't be bribeable or biased at all.

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In theory this is what it is supposed to do, in practice this will further reinforce group-think by severely penalizing those who speak up against bad ideas , and if everyone is too afraid to speak up against a bad idea that the leaders have (and they do make mistakes since they are humans) then they will go uncorrected and end with predictably catastrophic results.

A complete lack of dissent is a symptom of a dying society.

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It only Significantly affects richfags iirc

Also do all of you people already forget companies share employee performance information and even your personal information? They do so now for a quick buck but uncle Sam can easily use them to also "shut you up", if they haven't already.

Don’t be ridiculous. This shit is a tool for controlling the proles and that’s it. It would be delusional to think anything else.

“Western countries do it to” is a shit response. The west is already well on its way to a cyberpunk dystopia.

The rules and how it works are public and are part of a public institution, if it is proven to be wholly unsuitable mass unrest will force it out of operation.

China is, and always was fundamentally in the hands of her people.

the hands of her people.
M8 by that logic every country is “in the hands of its people”, since any government can be threatened by mass unrest.

This. Reminder that the equation(s) used to calculate credit scores are trade secrets. Companies have no obligation to reveal them to the public and have only done so to avoid legislation.

Not really, for example in America mass unrest can be used to play people against each other, amercias unique divisions allow for a retention of the status quo without the need for overt force by carefully playing at the hands of potential usurpers of the US government

As opposed to Chinese society which has no internal divisions and is completely monolithic right?

It's the kind of divisions, in China there are the people and the leaders, are there tensions? Sure but most are religious or geopolitical, for example native Koreans in China live a far more dignified life than Koreans in Japan.

In China there is very much an agreement that the Chinese people should benefit from their government, but in America the divisions are only ever increasing, and even if slavery is over, it has scarred America and persists as a very real argument for how modern America should rip off the rotting bandaid that is it's past, but a significant portion of Americans havr instead a very romantic view of "the good old days", a fundamental issue China thankfully does not have to suffer from.

You’re missing the point. The idea that a country is actually under control of their people just because there’s the potential for unrest applies to most countries. You could use that to argue that any country is “under the control of its people” even if it’s a totalitarian fascist shithole. Unrest doesn’t necessarily lead to change, and your whole argument doesn’t take into account different forms of government, class structures, repression, etc.

Sure, but China still has a very strong base that doubts the kind of free market Friedman wants, and I think the posters ITT also seem to ignore people that do view such a system in a positive light, especially in dealing with corruption scandals, etc.

This whole thread is retarded because it doesn't work how people think it does or how the media reports it.

THIS DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

It's incredibly different actually– because it is nothing at all like a credit score an algorithm.

Thank you.

For the love of god before anyone posts another thing about social credit please read this:


chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en

I'm making another thread about this with a new OP.

No.
Fuck that, and especially fuck not being able to live in a house anymore if you walk a red light 3 times.
I have lived in china for a time already and the many security cameras and online surveillance together with threat of consequences of talking shit is suffocating without being subject to the social credit score system.
It strikes me as insane that anyone on a chan would defend it anyway, its basically the polar opposite of pan-chan ideals such as anonymity which improves the ability for people to discuss ideas without fear of ostracization or being banned.

I have lived in China, and I can tell you there is absolutely no threat of consequences for talking negatively about China as a foreigner in China. It is completely implausible to me that you actually lived in China for any period of time and did not walk away with the exact opposite sense: nobody cares what you are doing and nobody is watching you. Lying bitch.

This isn't even a super hyperbolic representation of what the actual "social credit" system is. It's a pure fiction.

China is Capitalist and a dictatorship of the Bougies.
Thus this will benefit capitalists..

For example, when I went to collect my passport after getting my epic travel stamp I was directed to a find mine in a big pile of passports from other foreigners. I lived for two months without a legal residence, 80% of my foreign friends were working illegally and one guy overstayed his visa by 3 months before he finally was deported. Every single one of us used a VPN and I have never heard of a situation where we could face consequences for something said on-line. Even huge rabble rousers are totally ignored if they are white. It's a massively populated country and just thinking that anyone cares what some dude who can barely speak Chinese is doing when there are 10000 local people who have real problems is ridiculous.

God damn liar.

Its probably a bad thing overall, but it could be considerably better than the credit score system.
The actual mental associations of both these systems end up becoming something like
Western credit score system: a human is worth their economic status
Chinese social credit system: a human is worth their contributions to society (actual ones, not the meme kind you hear from lolbertarians)

Yes both can be highly corrupted and turned against the people, but at least the second retains the concept of societal worth not linked to economic worth, and so does not try to convert money to virtue.

The possible downsides is that because the credit score system does NOT say up front it is a human-worth metric (even though it is increasingly begin used as that), there is always the possible for people, even who reflexively use it as one, to have to admit it is not a persons actual value. A social credit system can very easily be seen as a quantified whole complete worth as a person, and so if it is turned against the public it could be harder to resist.

The article in junge Welt mentions that there is a project in Nanjing where donating blood improves your rating, and that this was reported by Xinhua in July. It's probably this one: xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/03/c_137298542.htm
So yeah, the Chinese are trying out different systems of credit-worthiness and these also include checks on social behaviour. Which is exactly what the haterz (and fans) are saying.

All you do is lash out at the impression some may have (or they don't believe it, but are exaggerating for clicks) that there is a one-dimensional score for everybody in China, and then you'll talk as if these smaller and not (yet?) unified systems aren't already in place.

How about instead of funding this "social credit system" to track how long their citizens are at karaoke bars or whatever they spend all that money towards achieving universal health care?

t. US State Department shill

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China is Socialist and a dictatorship of the Proletariat.
Thus this will benefit workers..

It was developed to repress the Ughyur and other Turkic populations in the western provinces, not to benefit the people.

An ethnic Turk will get a classification either as acceptable, suspicious or undesirable, with the latter being life as a second-class citizen. Han Chinese who live in these same areas on the other hand will use the scoring system with a variable number and which more forgiving and gives them a head start. This whole system is basically a tool for colonialism.

DID SOMEBODY SAY SOCIAL CREDIT?!

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the fuck?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Canada
is that this? how is it "conversative"?

He's talking about the British Social Credit Party: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland
Who were hardcore anti-fascists that fought at Cable Street.

The OG British Socreds were very different from the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand variants.

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Took a huuuuuuuuUUuuUuUuUuUuge shit just a minute ago.
U wan see dat sdeamy piece of greasy goldness

Fun fact
The Solomon Islander branch of the SocCreds still exist to this day and are a major political party in Solomon-I :D:D:D

I think this is at completely different idea from what the Chinese have in mind.

Weren't these like those people in burgerstan that call themselves "sovereign citizens" and shit?

That is not remotely what the social credit system is.