Can you recommend any literature for someone who was a Fascist in the literal sense of the word and not some Trump supporter.
I've come to the realization that Capitalism is fucking the planet into an early grave. I realize that nationalism and kike hating isn't going to allow for the continuation of our species. There are a few in the turd position movements who are environmentalist and care for the world. But many of them have been tricked into thinking that the world isn't going to cook us. Communism seems like the answer to this. It wants to destroy capitalism and I am all for that. My only problem is all of this fucking compartmentalization that you guys have regarding skin colour, gender and other petty shit. Aren't we all a part of the working class? I truly want to become a part of the cause. But all this fucking identity politics is a mindfuck.
I would highly suggest reading Marxist/anarchist authors who are highly critical of progress and modernity, people like Adorno, Benjamin, maybe even some Frenchies like Bataille or Althusser.
Justin Lee
The identity politics are pushed by progressive liberals who are essentially useful idiots for the status quo in that they distract from real socialist progress with petty issues that won't actually do anything to the neoliberal corporate system like "more black women CEOs".
Nathan Rivera
Read Marx
Nothing but liberal co-option of left rhetoric to try an neutralize it. Marx doesn't give a shit about any of this.
Brody Jones
Right, okay. Like, I get that blacks have been historically fucked with and it's atrocious. But from my point of view, all of these black rights movements that have popped up are quite supremacist or headed by white Americans.
So, you're saying that this isn't communists; rather liberals? I must be frank, I've kind of gotten used to using leftist as an umbrella term for all of you. I have a lot to learn, it would see.
Leo Young
I've read the communist manifesto. What would you suggest next?
Isaac Hall
If you hate idpol, why not read Badiou's book on St. Paul? It's 90 pages.
Nathan Brooks
The manifesto i pretty shitty. read Wage-labour and capital for a start.
The orginal black rights movements like the Black Panthers were based since they didn't get bogged down with black nationalism. I sincerely believe that the shit-tier black rights movement that have spawned since are all created by the feds.
There are self-described communists who are high on idpol as well. But it's more common among left-liberals.
Brody Stewart
Back to the zoo you go >>>/gulag/
Ayden Kelly
capitalists support mass migration because it means cheaper labor to exploit and they can also use them to divide the workers between racial lines and keep them distracted from revolution
Isaiah Lee
Even assuming they don't, it's their fucking fault it's happening anyway.
Jack Harris
I know this sounds a bit retarded, but try watching some of Slavoj Zizek’s videos on YouTube. It’s a nice way to start learning the differences between leftists and liberals (leftists just want to seize the means of production, liberals just want capitalism but with more of muh women and shiet at the top still fucking you in the ass),
Juan Kelly
Forgot to remove memeflag lmao
Xavier Lewis
This is a very common misconception. And I think it is important to address. Umbrella categorisation for left v right should be seen as. A left to right spectrum with the centre being overlapped by dem soc's. Additionally, many of these definitions of sectarian ideologies overlap.
- democratic socialist (right)(à la AOC) - socialist democrat (meme) - left liberal (major source of identity politics (à la muh disabled black female ceo) - Neoliberal - right liberal - centrists - Neoconservative - fascism - libertarian
My native country of Sweden is a good example of a place that is globally and internally considered socialist. But that is a misconception brought about by political parties being called something left but conducting themselves as neoliberals. Even the "left party" is socdem/demsoc.
Jace Cooper
what's the point of reading wage labour and capital, when Capital itself is pretty easy.
Evan Brown
The reason the political spectrum isn't generally viewed like that is that socialism isn't a serious political force in most countries. What you put under the label "Capitalism (right)" is the entire political spectrum in most countries. Since socdems, libertarians and fascists are all very different they need to be distinguished somehow, which is why socdems are generally considered left-wing, despite the fact that the social democratic movement hasn't been properly anti-capitalist since the first half of the 20th century.
Jack Martin
wew WEW
Ryan Jones
Liberalism/libertarianism is center right, conservatives are right wing and fascists are far right.
Social liberals like democrats are centrist, soc dems are center left, socialists are left wing and anarchists are far left.
Austin Nguyen
Read the FAQ. Anti-identity politics is more or less this boards founding principle, if not the reason people came here in the first place. Marxism historically has always been against identity politics. FYI, quite a few of us used to be right-wing as well, and places like this board and actually reading really helped in changing us. Hopefully you can come around as well, it took me about from late 2015 to the end of 2016 to do it. Arguably the board was different then, but if you ask questions in good faith here anons generally will be willing to help.
Wage labour and capital can be read in one sitting, whereas capital is split into 3 giant bricks
Hudson Ortiz
Not him, but be careful not to confuse the Black Panthers, which existed in the 60's and 70's, and the New Black Panthers, A retarded black nationalist group unaffiliated with the original group
Noah Barnes
I'm a strong supporter of the idea that reading these in this exact order will convert any fascist into a left-winger: The Jewish Question by Karl Marx The Mismeasure of Man Critique of the Gotha Programme Wage, Labor, and Capital Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism Towards a new Socialism
Juan Ross
One dimensional man by Herbert Marcuse
If you ever read any theory in your life that isn't Nihilist Communism…it's this
What you refer to as "fucking compartmentalization that you guys have regarding skin colour, gender and other petty shit" (i.e. so-called "identity politics") is a profoundly dangerous problem in movements which stand as a resistance to the capitalist system. This board and Zig Forums exist due to it. Unfortunately however there is no obvious solution as certain entities have been very successful in infiltrating resistance movements and fragmenting populations into "identities." Of course we are all human beings on the same planet and we'll all die the same way due to the hell that'll come to be due to climate change but this doesn't matter to those who have been so effectively brainwashed by these entities truly believe that if we give more platforms to men who dress as women or people with brown skin, only THEN will we be able to save ourselves. Our number one priority as human beings right now is destruction of the entire fossil fuel industry yet even Marxist-Leninist movements who aligned themselves with the Soviet Union during the 20th century now plaster "GENDER EQUALITY" over their home pages. It's so ludicrous but this is the nature of things today and I don't know of any literature which will show you a way out of this mess. We're at a point at which the only two things which might be able to save us are global war resulting in the death of billions of super-AI which can solve all this shit through nano-tech or some shit.
To add to it, even on this board we are fragmented by ideologies as if they are fundamental to our identities. Instead of having a single movement with basic and inviolable pillars of resistance that we can all agree upon (and these do exist in our thinking), people prefer to shout "tankie," "trot," or "bootlicker," being absurdly concerned with specifics. I wish I could offer you advice, or I'd propose such a bund but I'm just a voice in the wilderness, and at the moment we're fighting a truly uphill battle and there's no end to it in sight.
When I was in my reactionary phase, I became very disillusioned when I realized how much conservative talking points or shitty unsourced Zig Forums infographs are based on outright slanders and lies. Reading the actual Frankfurt School and not what retards like Andrew Breitbart and Paul Joseph Watson says about them is going to lead one to accept that much of right-wing conspiracy theory is just a form of anti-intellectualism.
Lot of the post in this thread suggest works that are too technical or explicitly political. While you should definitely read something like Capital down the line, it's good to start with a broad philosophical overview that stresses just how bad modernity has been fucked over by capital. The Dialectic of Enlightenment is a good place to start, but it can be a little challenging if you have never read Western philosophy before.
Jaxson Scott
It cant really be said in good faith that 'idpol isn't leftism', because most people NOW who call themselves leftist, and who everyone else calls leftist too, make it their primary concern. What can be said is that its not necessary for or helpful to anti-capitalist politics. That the leftism it overtook is better than it, and stronger without it. Zig Forums's anti-identitarianism is pissing in the wind, but that has no bearing on whether the ideas are correct or not.
Dominic Gutierrez
Did you see the absolute state of leftist discourse before leftypol formed? Things have greatly improved.
Justin Clark
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Caleb Collins
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Jackson Price
I remember believing this.
Aiden Allen
Does your system still do this? Is its industrial MoP still privately owned?
This was a huge catalyst for me when I was in my brief Joe Brogan/Peterson phase. Actually reading the material they cry about you'll find that they're distorting the truth.
Parker Reed
I don't think in TANS there is production of commodities for the purpose of exchange for a unit of currency/capital which is then put into further commodities or back into production, especially given that in TANS there is no currency, only non-circulable labour vouchers. There is also no class based extraction of surplus and production is calculated and determined cybernetically, as in information is collected from the industries and the populace to determine the proper output. There is that part about small markets for consumer items that's kind-of-iffy, but socialism doesn't promise to abolish "bourgeois law" in its entirety (mostly because that's impossible without jumping to communism) and Marx made it very clear socialism would still bear some birthmarks of capitalism. The industrial means of production are no longer privately owned though, and capital in the sense of money no longer exists, so commodity production as it exists in TANS functions not through C-M-C as Marx described it. It could however be argued though that some limited form of commodity production exists in regards to a quantity of socially necessary labour, its equal commodity, and the "surplus" extracted for societal services and infrastructure, but I don't really find this contradictory to Marx.
Matthew Thompson
Fascism is capitalism in decay. Hitler and Mussolini both did massive neo-liberal privatisations and destroyed workers rights for the rich industralists who funded them. Kicking out jewish capitalists, handing out welfare payments (pretty shit ones at that) and making the state have a role in what can and cannot be produced or sold is still capitalism. Keeping private mop, commodity production, wage labor, class rule and everything else that comes with capitalism but no jews or gay porn doesn't make you some magical third way. It just makes you a reactionary capitalist.
Samuel Rodriguez
I think he means neonazis here false flag as us to do that "kill all the whites" nonsense.
Dominic Peterson
Posting this here. Not sure if anyone will read it. But I don't want to shit up the catalogue.
Would you that that it is a good idea to get in contact with local groups? There are three at my uni. There's the big one, Socialist alliance which I have heard is simply a cult (not sure if that is Fascist propaganda) and two "Trotskyist" groups? I don't know anything about these people. But i'm guessing they don't like Stalinist. Should I just self study (reading some material recomenned in the thread) or meet up with one of these groups?
Samuel Butler
for fascist economics read Oswald Mosley: tomorrow we live. and the fascist manifesto for a better understanding of fascist basics
Kevin Richardson
Hating on trots constantly is meme and just historical autism at this point I sincerely hope you don’t identify as that
Hunter Jackson
likewise being a trot is historical autism
Eli Martinez
thanks for effortpost
Camden Evans
read Niekisch "Hitler: a german fate"
Nathaniel Nelson
By her own definition, and by the ambiguous and misleading hegemonic discourse surrounding demsoc
Jesus, I was just chumming the water a little bit, didn't need to take the bait hook, line, and sinker m8 XD
Joshua Cook
Fascism is by definition capitalist, since it merely results from capitalists defending themselves against working people by force when parliamentary democracy doesn't do the job anymore.
Luis Cruz
I will definitely second (even though out of these 6 texts, I've only read Gotha Program and WLC). "Why Marx was Right" by Terry Eagleton contains some strong arguments. I did find its analysis of the USSR a bit vague and idealist, probably because the author is a trot, but all his counter-arguments against anticommunists are convincing. Finally, as others itt have pointed out, it's vital to realize there is nothing anticapitalist about fascism. It can only exist and grow strong by the grace of capitalists in the first place. Its main functions are the enforcing of unpopular right-wing economic policies and the sowing of division among proletarians through racist, nationalist, sexist and pro-hierarchical ideology. People like Bolsonaro and Pinochet, widely acknoledged to be neoliberals, already show how blurry the distinction between neoliberalism and fascism can get. Even the "OGs" Hitler, Mussolini and Franco enacted what would nowadays be called neoliberal policies: massive privatizations, destroying the power of trade unions and giving the big companies a free pass to do what they want while working class people pay the price.
