Are psychology and psychiatry largely prole-control?

I had a thought recently – are organizations which deal with these two fields in fact organs for the pacifying of the working class? Think about it – what do the bourgeoisie tell the proles when they speak out against inequality? "You are the only ones responsible for your actions! Your behavior, success, and attitudes are all within your head and are a matter of you simply wanting to take accountability! You choose whether to be the victim or the hero!" These phrases seem to echo the classical justification of the ruling class over the working one, telling its members that they are all able to achieve greatly in life and that nobody is holding them back – when in fact the ruling class actively works to prevent this from happening by diverting efforts that may be used to provide opportunities for the working class to their own gain instead, which often results in the impoverishment of such in several facets. This may be observed through the refusal to relinquish the means of production and from that the means of subsistence as would be most suitable for the workers, where they here become de-alienated and invest in the things that matter to them, such as proper education and healthcare; things that ultimately improve their lives and actually bring them success and satisfaction. Psychology and psychiatry on the other hand are weaponized to label those who believe themselves cheated on a grand scale as those suffering from some kind of complex, and insist they have a scientific method that is used for this diagnosis, and so it must be correct against the individual's feelings of being slighted. Otherwise, if people cannot be fed the line that they too may be successful if they only will themselves to, then they are told to cope and settle for an inferior life – "Well, you may not be able to be wealthy in your lifetime, but that doesn't stop you from going out and making a happy life for your own self." Drugs play into this as well, going beyond what is basically therapy into physically altering the brain with chemicals designed to prevent anxiety, instead to feel like only maintaining complacency.

To elaborate on the path that people take, think about how unsatisfied and unsuccessful people are produced – whoever wanted from childhood to fail at life? It's in the interest of all people to establish a desired life, to promote life itself rather than constantly taking the beating of opposing forces. Why do people make mistakes? It's because they were either unknowledgeable in the subject or they were not in the proper state of mind, their attitude, which is itself education that must be directed by leaders of some sort, teachers. A person's will, or rather sum ability to persevere through things, may itself of course be largely trained in individuals, however when a person fails in this regard it is considered their fault for somehow not finding the will to make optimal use of their situation.

This isn't to say that people can't control the events that occur in their lives, but rather that their ability to do so is based largely on previous experiences and how those events have interacted with them personally. The solution is to not put people through such trying conditions where they are basically set up to fail, but rather to enfranchise them with the proper controls of their lives, which entails the provision of them the means of production, however there is the obvious conflict of interest with the ruling class who not only will deny the proles this need, but put down any sentiments against this with their attempted justifications – the ostensibly scientific methods of psychology and psychiatry basically provide what is considered to be a foolproof assertion to most that they are in fact delusional for wanting more, that their expectations are too high and they need to accept "the way life is".

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=RyHQRxQGBhI
ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.2008.08030343
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Read Althusser's autobiography. They absolutely are.

Psychs are modern day inquisitors, a lot of "mental illnesses" are just heresy against neoliberalism.

Of course there are legitimate disorders of the mind that need to be treated by specialists but things like depression, bipolar, BPD and personality disorders are either products of failing to sufficiently internalise neolib ideology or consequences of neoliberalism itself i.e decaying social bonds.

I doubt you can prove that by directly citing it.

depression is fairly unique in that it acts totally independent of upbringing, but rather depends on intelligence.

Can you elaborate on this more? Does this mean people more aware of themselves and the world are more likely to become depressed and that little can be done in a person's upbringing to prevent it?

I wouldn't say largely. Psychological disorder actually is real, but part of what makes the pathologizing of the DSM insidious is that it takes real phenomena as a base for elaborate social control.

Clearly, catatonic schizophrenics, people who wash their hands 900 times a day, and people who believe the CIA has bugged their cornflakes are real and need help from society to function as best they can given their situation.

These examples however have been used to justify a totalizing repressive ideology to pathologize and imprison/torture GSM, antiauthoritarians, that one firecracker in your 3rd grade class that recognized how completely off the rails institutional authority for authority's sake education is, and even relatively benign nonconformists in general.
In many ways this apparatus is mirrored by the war on drugs, where the disordered and untenable situation of a very few, perhaps even caused or at least exacerbated by the prevailing economic system, is used to just large scale atrocities in a repressive war on the poor.

In both cases the repression here serves to deligitmize any actual equalizing or potentially threatening force to the hegemon.

Regardless it is slightly more nuanced than in most cases it being simple criminal justice by another name. Mental health is still healthcare. It is totally reasonable to expect your brain, being a meat machine, does malfunction sometimes. An absolutist antipsychology position necessarily advocates abolishing mental healthcare entirely, which would be monstrous.

I would say it's population control at large. You have a clear number of people who fall into the insane category who absolutely need help. But there is a lot of made up stuff as well. Shy kids get a diagnosis for autism, active kids for ADHD. This is just with kids, it also extends to adults but they're more free to never go to a psychic clinic in the first place.

it's linked with overexciteability. meaning that having a heightened awareness of the details on what the possibilities of the future are is more likely to kill your motivation.

There are numerous studies correlating high intelligence and mental illness particularly depression and bipolar; as the old saying goes, 'ignorance is bliss'.

There is a "controversial" concept (controversial in the sense that it calls the validity of the dominant paridigm of positive psychology and CBT into question) in psychology called depressive realism which proposes, backed with emperical testing, that depressed indviduals are more accurate in interpreting external stimulus than the non depressed.

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Psychiatry is basically a massively genocidal profit pumping machine backed by horseshit pseudo-science and industry paid off "experts":
youtube.com/watch?v=RyHQRxQGBhI

Ah yes, we shouldn't help the guy trying to saw his leg off because it contains Masonic extraterrestrial parasites because Lacan said to just, like, be yourself, maaaaaan.
Far out.

Lacan comes off as an acid addict. he had some good ideas in the beginning but slowly started to "find god"

That isn't even what Lacan is saying.

That's a charitable interpretation honestly.

His actual argument is something like
Complete and utter handwavy pseud garbage where he just pointed to a dictionary and said >implying

I don't think it's an interpretation of Lacan but of your own misapprehension of Lacan.
He mostly talks about stressors and the concept of stress in mainstream psychology in the excerpt; it isn't strictly speaking about disorders but reactions to what could potentially be regarded as stress. It ends by questioning whether clinical psychologists can be said to know what is "best" for their patients, as their judgments are to a great degree influenced by expectations of what the norm would consider not just stress, but right and wrong, a good life, etc., and are less objective than moralistic judgments of the patients forced into a "scientific" terminological apparatus.

The argument seems valid to me. How about you say something concrete about it rather than handwaving it away?

IQ is negatively related to mental illness
ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.2008.08030343
MENSA contradicts this pattern however
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324
i couldnt find any article on consensus in the field so idk, but common sense says lower problem-solving ability contributes to poor mental health

"poor mental health" is not equivalent to depression you sophist.

Watch Century of the Self, but do remember the the issue about psychiatry/psychology lies in the relative ease for porky to coopt.

Thank you so much for pointing out this topic. I can speak from my own experience and I can confirm, that psychiatry are indeed tools of oppression. Mental illness is real, I don't deny that. But people seem not to see, what is causing most of mental problems: A fucked up society. Under capitalism, social work and psychiatry in particular, doesn't serve the well-being of the people.
I live in one of the wealthiest countries on this planet and this is how "professionals" handle agonized people like me: They simply lock you up and feed you with sedative drugs. Honestly, what kind of help is this?! In the past, I was so naive and I thought, that these people know what they do and that they could help me. Fuck was I wrong! Stay away from this shit. Prescribing addictive drugs and locking you up, this is the "professional help" they have to offer.

Psychology and psychiatry are not inherently a means of social control, but their potential for it is substantial, and is quite a controversial issue in the scientific community.

It just freaks me out. We have the technology to send a fucking car into space, while psychiatry is using methods from the dark ages.

It can be counterproductive. There is a difference between psychology in a capitalist society and psychology in a socialist society.

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I see the potential abuse and agree with most of what you're saying, but disagree with the primary causes. I don't see psychiatric abuse stems from the cause being as a method of control, but rather the incentivized abuse under the profit motive in capitalism, the case being, that doctors recieve money by prescribing patients certain drugs from their respective pharmeceutical companies which means they recieve more money from doping up patients with more drugs and therefore may lead them to diagnosing their patients with more illnesses.

At one point in American history there was classified a psychological disorder that described slaves as wanting to be free:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

The psychiatry industry is a weapon of the ruling class just like any other capitalist institution.

I've never seen a psychiatrist or taken medication before so I don't have a strong opinion on how effective or legitimate they are. All I know is in my research on the inner experience of others over the last few years my brain works drastically differently than the norm. I rarely talk to myself or have inner speech along with total aphantasia for example. It's normal for me to go 15-20 minutes without saying a word in my mind. I don't know if they could help me or not, I think they probably could somewhat help. But what I do know is I would not trust those fucking people in a thousand years to actually truthfully tell them what's on my mind in terms of Communism/Climate Collapse.

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This is what happened to me when I tried taking an anti-depressant (SSRI). It's what made me stop. Sure I didn't feel depressed, but I also didn't feel much of anything else. Also, my mind was super quiet, especially cause I have a rich internal monologue and I process a lot of things all the time (overthinking is part of the depression/anxiety thing) and I wanted it to slow down, but not stop completely.
This is also what worried me. I was unable to fantasise about myself in situations other than the one I was in. It was really weird, again, especially cause I daydream a lot.

So I stopped taking anti-depressants. I'd rather be on this manic depressive rollercoaster than feel nothing at all.

Who wrote that? And link to it?

LOL! Psychology and psychiatry have been neutered of any real power since the 80's. It's almost impossible to be involuntarily committed these days even when you pose a clear and imminent threat to yourself and others and have stated such on social media (AKA numerous mass shooters).

Most people who I have seen spout the "Le insanity is fake XD" meme have also never had the pleasure of dealing with actual crazies. Society at large has actually taken the opposite approach to what the OP theorizes. They decided that it was "too expensive" and "inhumane" for the government to fund mental health services so now we have a vulnerable segment of society who are largely left to their own devices and become the responsibility of the police to deal with (pro-tip: cops have no idea how to handle crazies beyond shooting them). Not giving a shit about the mentally ill is a symptom of late stage capitalism where the citizenry have become so self absorbed and greedy that they no longer feel obligated to even marginally help anyone worse off than them. Which ironically costs them more money and rights in the long run as dangerous lunatics cause damage and give the powers that be an excuse to clamp down on normal people.

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I am studying Psychology. The Problem is not so much 'Psychology as a tool of the ruling class' in the same sense that the state is. Its that, especially if you look at behavioural approaches/therapy, the underlying assumption of Psychology is that the mentally healthy person is simply the person which functions in todays society. One could in theory take a more critical view of society, and conclude that not only are the conditions of life engendering mental illness, but that the very things neoliberalism requires of functioning adults in their day-to-day conduct are in fact a degradation of the human psyche as they require constant self-delusion and tight control of naturally occuring emotions.
But if this were to be accepted in the scientific community, then the whole project of kognitive behavioural therapy would be called into question since it would no longer have the pretense of being about 'mental health', it would have to openly declare itself as a training program simply to get people back to work and into the rat race at the expense of their actual sanity. Psychology as a science would have to implictly declare that the only way to mental health is through restructuring society.

I found it a bit difficult to write in the format of a small post about this difficult topic but this is a great response.

The field of psychology as a means of helping others who are struggling mentally/spiritually is as meaningful as aiding the ailments of the body, but psychology is also a tool that can also be used according the ones who wield power and we can see that today. e.g. people who are experience suicidal ideation have "chemical imbalances" that need to be fixed (very often now with drugs). Even though suicide is higher in more capitalist countries (e.g. South Korea and Japan), it's almost a taboo to suggest that it could possibly be that the society in general is pretty shit and these mental responses are completely natural under such circumstances

Bruce Fink's .pdf related.

There are degrees. Yes, there are 'crazies' with schizophrenic disorders, delusions, paranoia, etc. but there are also people who are diagnosed with mental disorders like depression, anxiety, ADHD, etc. These don't seem on the same level as someone who thinks people are literal monsters from outer space and have to be killed. Furthermore, modern psychology and psychiatry seem to want to locate those problems in the individual, "chemical imbalance", and then treat it with pharmaceutical drugs (which are a big industry unto themselves and rely on these diagnoses to sell their product).

You are lacking fundamental reading comprehension skills if this is your hot take, my friend. Just because you refuse on theoretical grounds such concepts as normalcy it doesn't mean you refuse to acknowledge your patient's suffering or delusions and refuse to help them.

oh, boi

Except they always were and continue to be. To me what you are saying amounts to

"ADHD" from the DSM is pretty much the same but applied to school children freaked out by the absolutely boring and soul crushing US school system. Turns out that poor kids going to poor schools have ADHD while bourg kids going to private schools don't.

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I don't think psychiatry is an anti-proletarian tool by itself but it certainly ask like that when it tells people they are the problem. Can a psychiatrist or psychologist just tell someone their life is awful? Also, even bourgeois people live meaningless empty lives.

No more or less than artists or journalists. Their job has validity (mental health is anything but a fictional concept), but their strumentalized by capital.

Some, not all. Social psychology exists after all, even if like economics it is pretty much entirely in the service of capital.


The issue I think is the limit of psychology's power to effectively deal with a patient. Of course psychologists realize that a good part of mental disorders have their origin in socio-economic causes, but what can they do exactly to solve the issue? Tell their patient to get a fatter paycheck? Tell them that "it's the system's fault", which as much as it is true does nothing to solve the very real problem of a patient suffering in front of them. It would be like a doctor telling a patient they are in pain because they are old: no shit, but that's not something he can change.

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I thoroughly agree, also greetings fellow pshyc student.

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Other posters have echoed this in the thread, and whilst I haven't much experience in the field compared to you, I wholeheartedly agree and have thought this for a long time. Personally I have been medicated for Major Depression; but that itself was admittedly only ever a stopgap in anticipation of waiting lists for counselling with the intention of moving into CBT, this is what I was essentially told straight up in the UK.

I only ever went to my GP for something I had dealt with in my own way for years previously because of changes in my circumstances which exarcerbated it; it was never something that was individualized, as much of the discourse surrounding it exists now. I had heard of CBT before but when it was mentioned I researched it properly and basically realised that this wasn't so much treatment to resolve the underlying problem of depression but rather a medicalized form of the adage under Capitalism and the "Neoliberal" period in particular of complete and absolute individualization of all aspects of life. CBT was "Effective" because it was essentially brainwashing to help you accept this narrative, and it pretty quickly became clear that the effectiveness of a lot of treatments were essentially measured against this criteria; whether the subject can perform properly in society; ironically, with no regard to their personal wellbeing. This kind of "Individualism" severely alienates you from yourself imo, and it's more or less how all facets of this ideology operate for anyone who expresses any kind of inability to function as they're required to.

Something I've received a lot of pushback on personally from other people is when I attempt to bring this narrative into the discussion surrounding things like mass shootings in the US; I'm told that I'm stigmatizing the mentally ill and that they don't commit violence at higher rates even when I literally point out that their actions are literally preconditions to being classified as mentally ill under the psychiatric orthodoxy insofar as the term is only ever used to describe those who express inability to conform. It's mind boggling to me.

It is in a sense. It's good at diagnosing anti-social behavior and then working to correct it through medication gaslighting and brainwashing. The causes of a prole being unhappy and manifesting anti-social behavior are different across various societies and historical periods for example what's considered to be anti-social in Russia and China (i.e being a liberal fag) is considered normal behavior in the West and vise versa but the job of the psychiatrist is to diagnose the symptoms of anti-social behavior (depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, aggression etc) then medicate and brainwash the subject back to socially acceptable behavior.

Let us not pretend like some people are not fundamentally, inherently broken. We're crude biological machines and a lot can go wrong with us. If you cannot reliably execute certain basic physiological and social functions, there might be something wrong with you.

Akshually, schizoprenics are POWs from the future. Read Land, brainlet.
QED.

what country?

t. Homeless doesn't real

Sorry for the late reply. I live in Germany.

Off yourself

Rude

holy shit. so those meds are actually brainwashing chemicals then?

this but unironcally

Ok but conventional wisdom is that intelligence is more or less fixed in an individual, but recent research suggests that being in a depressive state is makes you think far more rationally. Depending on the methodology it may just be that intelligence tests are administered to depressed people and it's assumed that those tests represent their general intelligence.

I don't see how problem-solving favors pessimism.

I'm saying it's the other way around. The cause -> effect is depression -> problem solving.

which implies rationality tests would have to favor depression somehow. I'm saying I don't see it, since rationality is objective.

No, it implies that depression favors rationality you fucking retard.

I thought you were arguing against that.
hence the "Ok but"?

The post I was replying to was saying that rationality causes depression. I'm saying the opposite. I explained that the effect of depression increasing rationality confounds experimental evidence that depression and rationality are correlated, which is based on the common, and likely mistaken, assumption that a person's intelligence test results are stable. The correlation is likely because people would be tested by surveying for depression (or symptoms) and testing, then looking for correlation. This doesn't control for the effect of depression on a person's results.

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The correlation is likely because people would be tested by surveying for depression (or symptoms) and testing, then looking for correlation.

I think as a whole it's more a moneymaking scam like everything else in capitalism. But as it pertains to the government involvement it absolutely is prole control. I can't speak to other countries but in America we have a little thing called Habeas Corpus. But all it takes is for a cop to say: "Hmmm well I can't arrest this guy because he hasn't done anything illegal, but I'm going to call him crazy so we can indefinitely detain him and take away his second amendment rights."

T. Someone who's been 5150ed on a 14 day hold in a lockdown unit.

I told the doctor I didn't want to get drugged and he told me he'd take me to court and get a forcible injection order. I told him I'd just wait until the end of the 14 day hold. And he said "oh you poor naive fool. The time limit is nothing more than a semantically addition. I just write a seven day hold then a, fourteen day hold, then a thirty day hold, and so on. Psychiatrists are possibly some the worst scumbags on the face of the Earth. At this facility the nurses told me that the doctors see over 100 new patients every week and I saw them drive up to work in their Murciélagos and shit. You have all these supposed patients rights like I was explaining about holds but it's all for show. They have a free phone for you to use with all your patients rights advocates for you to call but then you call the numbers and they're all disconnected/out of service. You supposedly have the right to request a different doctor, but the nurses told me that's all for show too because to get a different doctor the other doctor has to agree to it and none of them would ever disrespect a fellow doctor like that. When I was telling my doctor I wanted to go to court he just laughed at me for that too because he said "you're just prolonging your stay here because I literally never lose in court, the judge always rules in my favor." He was right. I could go on for longer but I'll end it here. It's FUBAR from top to bottom.

Primarily a moneymaking scam(basically just good old fashioned drug dealing) with state support to incarcerate the innocent.

I'd kill to be there.

Finally someone combating the shitty "Just read this" with no context or other imput. Good job.