Well, user, why aren’t you a Nationalist yet? There is literally nothing wrong with Nationalism

Well, user, why aren’t you a Nationalist yet? There is literally nothing wrong with Nationalism

best American socialist thread

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Clubs
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Yeah, as long as you ignore everything about it.

Nations are gay

this is now a homonationalism thread

gay homeland when???

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Is Zig Forums really this dumb not to recognize one of the most influential American socialists?

Holy fuck this is real.


Shut up, hetero

Zig Forums is a nobooks board and can’t understand that Nationalism (Bellamyism) isn’t “nationalist” in the modern sense and influenced figures like Debs and after Bellamy’s death was largely assimilated into the Socialist Party apart from a small revival in the Great Depression

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Fuck fine ok I'll give a proper answer.
Simply nationalizing everything won't get us anywhere unless we also hold political power in nation.

at the end of the day nationalism is stupid. even a "good" version of it.

Agree OP. Civic nationalism can easily be mobilized to leftist politics, especially in countries that are victims of imperialism, or in countries with national identities and political values based on the enlightenment (France, the US, etc).

UPHOLD SOCIALIST PATRIOTISM

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In Greece, the words nationalism and socialism are very different. The only people calling themselves nationalists are Golden Dawn fascists and similar far right groups. Patriotism in the other hand is considered the healthy love for one's country without racism or chauvinism.

nationalism and patriotism*

Amerikkkan "nationalism" is literally the celebration of slavery and genocide, if you're going to be a nationalist at least be a black or native nationalist, they've at least been oppressed on a national level.

(You) people are fucking brain dead
Not because you don't know who Edward Bellamy is, or not knowing about his book (Since a lot of us here are not Americans)
But because you just sprout shit without even trying to look it up.

But among them you are the one that stinks of Zig Forums with your monkey tier comment.

Because nations form shitty ties between individuals

BIG BRAIN
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Clubs

Because i read books.

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I am anti-imperialist. Pretty sure this suffices.

It's borg af.

Resistance is futile.

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If your endgoal doesn't mean full Communism and you intend to keep the state for arbitary reasons muh race muh culture muh land n soil or keep imperialistic bourgeois nationalistic idealogy. Go die, nationalism is fucking retarded because you worship an entirely bouegious institution instead of loving the working class world wide.

At this point I feel like the people crying about MUH NATIONALISM EVUL are Zig Forumsyps since It's been said time and time again what this was all about like in

I feel like this thread was created to bait these nobooks retards to some extent but it really goes to show how little thinking some people do when it comes to commenting on threads, especially with the spoiler talking about “best American socialists”

very low eye queue post

What does Nationalism have to offer that Marxism Leninism doesn't already do?

Nothing really. Bellamy’s book is a good read and he is probably one of the better utopian socialists out there, better than Robert Owen and Étienne Cabet, that is for sure. In the book that Bellamy wrote a non-violent revolution occurs and the government takes over all industry and becomes “the sole employer and capitalist” (as one character says basically verbatim). In the book all poverty is abolished along with exploitation and social classes. Money is abolished and the national product is divided equally and given to people for use annually through using a “credit card”. The government does little more than manage industry and coordinate distribution. There are some interesting ideas though like the industrial army in the book. Everyone from ages twenty-four to forty-five is drafted into the industrial army and this is the only period of their life where they have to work, beyond that is retirement.

The movement itself had a petty-bourgeois phase with stuff like “Bellamy clubs” shortly after the novel released but Bellamy became more active with the Nationalists and with him many actual working people aligned himself with him, with the book earning the endorsement of many figures from the AFL and the Knights of Labor. Nationalism was basically a peaceful alternative to the system of private capital and wage slavery and was appealing for this reason along with offers of shorter working hours, etc. Bellamy believed political democracy was a sham so long as industrial democracy was not a reality, which the Nationalist movement aimed to make it so. Though the book was a romance novel with a utopian setting Bellamy did intend it as a forecast for the future. After his death in 1898 the movement was basically subsumed into the Socialist Party and ceased to be the leading current of American social radicalism. Some interesting things were inspired by the book such as the Kaweah Cooperative Commonwealth out in California.

It’s more an interesting facet of American socialism and a good book with interesting ideas than an alternative for Marxism

tribalist spookery used to prop up capitalism.

Read the thread you fucking retard, you got baited by the name of a movement that has nothing to do with nationalism in the modern sense

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ok

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Who gives a shit about some 19th century radlib who thought socialism is nationalization + more democracy?

nationalism in the modern accepted sense means exactly what you think it does. In the context of this thread, which is obvious from the OP (both the photo and the spoiler) Nationalism (capital N) refers to a the leading current of American socialism in 1890s. Is it that hard to understand? The thread seems to have been written to bait you retards too
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Clubs


Did Marx and Engels hate all utopian socialists despite their flaws and shortcomings? Engels had very positive things to say about Robert Owen and New Lanark despite Owen’s obvious utopianism and views that the problems in society were due to “ignorance” alone

It's not utopian socialism, it is literally not socialism by the Marxist definition.

You can say this about most utopian socialists. The Icarians were a group of people who founded several colonies in the United States from the 1840s onwards until the end of the century. With some variation these were essentially small, egalitarian communities who owned their property in common and did stuff like eat in common mess-halls. Everyone refers to these as “utopian socialist colonies”. Robert Owen set up New Harmony, which despite falling very short of its goals and having to install Owen as president for assistance before failing in 1828, is still referred to as a utopian socialist community. These people are not Marxists, obviously, but they all hold socialist or proto-socialist views of some kind. Bellamy’s book described a classless society which had overcome exploitation, poverty, private property and money — who would deny that this is not communistic thought?

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nationalism doesn't just mean protecting people who share your nationality

smh, cishits

m8 if you use what equates to a Zig Forums dogwhistle in your OP then you gotta explain that shit.

But really the entire movement was based around his utopian book. It's good as a bit of fun and a "look, the future under communism aint ebil" type work but people are better off reading marx.

Having said that, we need more fiction about a future under communism (even without explicit communist wording)

No it just means emphasizing the role of national identity and community in politics. It’s neither inherently left or right wing, at least in the current context. In only becomes reactionary when it’s a barrier to achieving communism.

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They only cared about gay marriage, gross.

I want to live in the timeline where the Gay Kingdom really fought Australia and kicked their asses.

Posting on an ebic bait thread.

Can you fellas tell me exactly what's wrong with nationalism? I know porky used it for imperialism but so they did with religion, they'll use any tool available

Nationalisation doesn't end capitalism

Has Zig Forums ever been baited so hard before?

is this 420chan or lainchan?

You're right, but there's better ways to build popular support for Socialism. American nationalism would drive away Canadian/Mexican/international worker supporters and would inevitably tie into some form of neo white supremacist pax Americana more oppression of south America and American interests in Europe and the middle-East (Israel). Since basically anyone who's not white in America has been genocided, enslaved, descriminated or literally blown up and forced to flee to the place which did it. Attempting to mass organise Black and Hispanic people (which will become the dominate collective "racial" group in the future) under the banner of a country where there is literally nothing to be proud from a leftist perspective and did horrible stuff to them for hundreds of years is not going to work.

Comrade Hitler but civic nationalism or Black nationalism but actually left wing is not a good praxis. If anything we should try to destroy whatever natiinalistic elements remain in America since to be s nationalist is to be proud of the US or what it stands for.

divider and distraction from class struggle, people will put more emphasis on their national identity over material conditions because of nationalist propaganda

I don't recall. This may very well have been it.

Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.