Had identity politics successfully destroyed the possibility of an actual leftist, worker based revolution in America?

Yes, but so what? Just because identity politics is something that the center likes to talk about to make themselves feel good about not being racist/sexist/etc, does not mean it is not a real issue.
Furthermore, it is not an either/or proposition, you can acknowledge the manifestation of alienation in the form of racism/sexism/whatever and the capitalist class's push for more division along these lines, without betraying the primary part of the movement: support for the working class and the abolishment of capitalism.
Tons of nazi/crypto-fascist/right-wing pieces of shit come on this board to stir-up racist sentiments among the left and it is painfully obvious. Go back to >>>Zig Forums

I don't think so, because identity politics is necessary, and in the beginning was pressure on the left coming from groups that were previously not comfortable with joining class-only-focused organizations (for various reasons), as well as trying to provide a Marxist class-focused framework on previously disassociated movements like feminism and so on. Like, feminism without Marxism is just Hillary Clinton breaking the glass ceiling or whatever; so you get Marxist feminism as a way of bringing class into identity; yet this is derided as "idpol." To make matters more confusing, other forms of identity politics emerged in so-called "Third Way" politics after the Cold War from formerly socialist parties.

In any case, I don't think that if we got rid of identity politics completely, that we could suddenly will some revolution into being in the first world. It's not that simple.

That's what identity politics was invented to do, all the way back to when the white identity was invented.

Sorry woketards, any successful movement needs to be majority white by virtue of reality.

(me)

Also, OP, the idea that white first-world workers have too much to lose by joining in with a revolution isn't a shocking thing to believe. "Nothing to lose but their chains" is pretty damn central to Marxism here. It's plainly obvious that these populations have more to lose than their chains, and their wealth is built and sustained on the basis of straight-up exploitation of the surplus value of foreign third-world populations and domestic minority populations. Why would they join the Communist Party? It's not in their interest.

The United States (although it's weakening) powers the global economy by consuming the exports of the rest of the world, and then the surpluses flow back to the United States by going to institutions on Wall Street or being used to buy U.S Treasury debt. This happens naturally due to the status of the dollar as the global reserve currency, and because of the profitability of U.S corporations and returns on Wall Street – not to mention U.S. military power to crush attempts to overturn this system.

That's not say that white workers in the U.S. can't be revolutionary. I wouldn't go as far as the Twitter person or whatever, but it's something you just have to keep and mind and not blithely dismiss as idpol.

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>their wealth is built and sustained on the basis of straight-up exploitation of the surplus value of foreign third-world populations and domestic minority populations
You just throw that out there. How is the "wealth" of a white prole in say the US built by exploitation of blacks in the US, or undocumented immigrants in the US? If anything, the marginalization of these populations puts downward pressures on the wages of the whole working class in the US. This reflexive identification of "minorities", "marginalized", etc. as the true revolutionary subject without any proof is in fact idpol and to be rejected. Repackaged noble savage-trope of yore.

You realize the working class gets almost nothing from third world exploitation right? America's wealth comes from the division of labor and the expansion of automation. Read Wealth of Nations

Mmm no

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Okay, how about this: Let's destroy the United States as a political entity and erase borders between it and the rest of the world with a political program to equalize standard of living between the U.S. population and the rest of the planet. Because that's basically the communist program.

Do you think most white workers in the U.S. are going to go for that?

If you want to woo them over to voting for Bernie Sanders or something though, have at it.

No, you are woefully misinformed.

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How am I spooked

Explain to me

"liberals get the bullet too"

No because it would force them into compition into the workers of the world. This dons’t mean that they benefit from imperalism because allowing Capital to move freely thought the planet will make Imperialism stronger, not weaker. Offshoring don’t benefit western workers, it causes them to be unemployed and takes away their unions, giving them cheep iPhones dons’t make up for loosing your high paying union job.

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This kind of thinking is from people who are totally bought-in to the American lifestyle. The average labor aristocrat/petty booj white American actually has a sickening and lifestyle, and the most expensive parts of their lifestyle (that do need to be eliminated) such as driving everywhere, living in a McMansion, watching TV/playing vidya all day, etc. are the reason this class of Americans is so fucking fat and depressed. The average Cuban or DPRKorean has a much better life than the average white American, in spite of having so much less money.
HOWEVER, white Americans are really addicted to their sick lifestyle, and it would take a lot of reeducation to rip it away from them. The good news for communists is that this lifestyle is being slowly destroyed by economic crisis and climate crisis. When our time eventually comes, it won't be a major obstacle.

This. America has not suffered enough for socialism. But eventually they will.

No one's going to mention the dual citizen nature of this particular citizen?

You fall into the same idpol trappings of the guy in OP. This isn’t specific to white americans, their entire country suffers from the sickness of over consumption and materialism

Every time I read something about how "Americans benefit from imperialism" it makes me wonder who the fuck are we talking about? The average American prole does not see any benefits from imperialism. Look at the statistics… real wages have been stagnant/declining for over 40 years. Life expectancy is now dropping. The average millennial earns like 20k a year. People are barely fucking surviving in this system. The only people who don't know this are either LARPing teenagers from middle class backgrounds or foreigners who think the USA is exactly like it appears in Hollywood movies. Hollywood is not reality. Hollywood is fucking propaganda to make everyone believe that a life of luxury awaits everyone who works hard, goes to college, invents something great, etc. It's bourgeois ideology in audio/visual form.

1. Workers in the developed world do not own the wealth created by exploitation. it is, by definition, in the hands of the capitalists.
2. Labor arbitrage, i.e. the use of low-paid workers in developing countries, is done precisely to avoid paying workers in the developed world the value of their wages. The relative surplus value increases for the capitalist because he can reduce his investment in variable capital. The workers in the developed world are losing money in this scheme. They do not benefit.

I don't know what universe you live in that makes you think the majority of Americans live lives of ease and luxury. The majority of people I knew (as a prole in the U.S.) were overworked, didn't have enough money to pay for necessities, and suffered from health problems that largely stemmed from stress-induced behavior like smoking, binge-drinking, and binge-eating. I saw grown men dropping at work from heart attacks and blood clots while working some shitty part-time job (probably their 2nd job) while worrying about how they were going to take care of their families.

America hasn't had a "possibility of an actual leftist, worker based revolution" since literally the days of FDR. 70% of Americans of ANY race are centrists at best and literal fascists at worst.

America has zero revolutionary potential whatsoever. The american animal has been brainwashed by generations of anti-leftist propaganda. Modern america is literally founded on its anti-left, anti-communist philosophy.

I think people are seriously deluding themselves due to the 2016 election and Bernie. Yes Bernie helped bring leftism to the mainstream for the first time in decades, but at the end of the day the vast majority of americans are bootlicking dogs who AT BEST want medicare for all .

No, because the first world has no revolutionary potential whatsoever.

I've never seen a genealogical repetition of Nietzsche's Genealogy. What's the book?

who AT BEST want medicare for all and are perfectly content with everything else remaining the same*

Never mind, I found it: George Friedman's The Political Philosophy of the Frankfurt School. Interestingly enough, also the founder of Stratfor.

I said,
This is a specific kind of white American I'm talking about, and it's not an insignificant segment of the population. Most Zig Forumstards come from this segment and are suffering from downward mobility/unemployment.
It's true other ethnicities enter the same general class as these aristo whites, Asians and (Spaniard) Hispanics especially. As well as a milieu of Euros, Eastern Euros, and a handful of blacks.

also the fact that companies will dismiss any employees who have an emotional moment or wrong opinion online because of the buyer's market, which in turn influences colleges to cater to them and create safe spaces.

It's very simple, user. If an American is able to live in a "nice" suburb and drive a car everywhere, it's thanks to imperialism. Period, the end. There's no other way to sustain that lifestyle. However, as I already stated, this is a deceptive benefit– it's actually a really miserable life, but it sells well to indoctrinated burgers.

and that's why you're a brainlet.

The American aristo lifestyle is literally not sustainable, I don't know what you're smoking.

I turned a friend of mine who used to be an edgy (eg believes gays should marry but also says fag a lot, says nigger for "ironic" humour whilst being against racial profiling) pro capitalist liberal toward socialism. He claims he's a socialist but he's done a 180 on immature edginess and is basically a typical idpoler who just so happens to include capitalists as one of many exploiters. Patriarchy, toxic masculinity and white privilege being up there with class conflict. I think this issue largely arises due to a lack of understanding of materialism, resulting in a view that these ideological issues crop up spontaneously.

sounds like you're still in school kiddo

How so? This was over the course of many years. Neither of us have been edgelord losers since around 2015. I respect that racial and gender issues exist and need attention, but they reign below the overarching oppression that is the difference in class, a material relation.

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you can't really leverage class consciousness onto other people unfortunately

Well like I said, I think it's a result of not having even an inkling of what materialism is. Without it, class becomes a mere identity, and identity is what is perceived by idealists to determine exploitation and oppression. That's simply the opinion I draw from my observations over the last few years.

your life is fine you retarded ☭TANKIE☭

Then why don't Western workers revolt? We're starting to see the cracks forming, though.

If you think the average American worker lives in such luxury that they would not support socialism you either have no experience with American working conditions or have a very low opinion of what would constitute socialism

that doesn't mean they can't be spooked

I think that the average American worker sees his life as one that's not worth fighting and risking everything to improve.

Underrated counterpoint.
Exploitation of domestic minorities /hurts/ majority workers in the first world, and minorities also benefit from exploitation of the third world despite being disadvantaged within their first world country.

but the question is why? some people here make it sound like american workers are "living better than they should (as workers)" and that this somehow blocks all revolutionary potential. does that sound like a sane line of reasoning to you? i feel like only people who are completely against marxism (or think themselves 'marxist' while not understanding it at all) could come to these kinds of conclusions

Idpol is just a symptom of the total failure of marxist economics. Its the only thing leftist have left.

Sometimes they have a point. Like, its hard to deny settler colonialism has fucked native americans, hispanics and african americans. But then you get utter cunts like this who's only goal it is to rant about white people and men. This stupid bitch is chinese, they're also fucking settlers in the US and they're more rich and powerful than the average white worker, where does she get off advancing socialism with "chinese characteristics" and ranting about white settler colonialism when she's advancing fucking chinese socialism and chinese interests in a land she's not even from that has real oppressed minorities in it. That's ACTIVE settler colonialism if I ever saw it.

To cut a story short, sometimes they have a point but 90% of the time its just dumbfucks trying to be as woke as possible.

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Now, this is a good criticism of identity politics. Just people being really performative for e cred.

Anyone who says it blocks "all" revolutionary potential I think is an armchair third worldist trying to justify their own lack of engagement with the world (Jason). But I think settler colonialism is an obstacle. There is a significant chunk of the white population in the U.S. that sees itself (although not consciously most of the time) as Protestants in Northern Ireland or something like that, or whites in South Africa.

Tell me mutualist flag poster, you still a market socialist or have you abandoned that too?

I think its very important for Marxists to understand the effects of colonialism while not shifting blame onto a certain ethnic group or people, its actually something I almost see as a litmus test at this point for those leftists who bring such things up it up. Moralizing history does really no good to the socialist movement, especially early colonialism which, while tragic, was inevitable given the circumstances of the western world at the time and the need for expansion for competing European kingdoms. We can't look at history in absolute terms, but we can look at the effects of previous systems and actions and see how those effects impact people now. This way, we can point to present problems which need addressing, explain them, and then show how its with socialism we can collectively fix all of them for everyone.

It’s funny that some of the more rabid Hawaiian nationalists and identiarians have actually went to the extent of writing full length books on “Asian settler colonialism”

You see it does have some extra relevance now because white people are a minority on the islands, the majority of proud US citizens and “settlers” on the islands have always been East Asians

I find it funny that people who want to abolish “whiteness” whatever that means generally advocate for an immigration system that favors (largely college educated) Asians who are the most rapidly growing demographic in the US. I think things wouldn’t be that much better if the US opened its doors to Latin America which is in general majority Hispanic white/mestizo

I think at some point you have to recognize that it isn’t strictly about race or “decolonization” but about capitalism and the imperialist policies that system produces. I know that isn’t some great revelation on Zig Forums but in butgerland it’s difficult to stress it too much unless you go full Nazbol or some stupid shit

What’s with people acting like the US has really high standards of living? Are you guys time travelers from the 60s?

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if race or gender is an identity, then so is class, and it all intersects.

and how the fuck did you reach this brilliant conclusion?

Revolution arises from necessity; IDpol was more targeted at SuccDems to pull a neo-liberal bait and switch.

wow, what a coincidence!

The US is the source of all reaction and must be castrated for socialism to succeed in the 21st century. Deal with it.

Jewish liberals get the bullet too, not because they are Jewish, but because they are liberals.

Not really, it’s just the most powerful imperialist power atm

pretty much, yes.
vid related

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Well those are the internally exploited populations I'm talking about. Camden, N.J. is around 18% white (non-Hispanic). The largest employer in the city is the Campbell Soup Company. These populations, most of whom are black or Hispanic, then have comprador politicians "represent" them, but in any other colonial situation these politicians would be understood as representatives selected from bourgeois elements of the community by the more powerful classes to reach compromises: keep the natives pacified.

These neighborhoods also function like colonies because the local populations do not control their economies. Whatever wealth they obtain is rapidly drained out (such as to landlords), and not returned or applied to any local community improvement. Of course there are lots of social problems, but it doesn't really matter who's in charge politically – both parties in the United States are bought. Like, fundamentally people have a right to food, clothing, housing and safety; but those are not guaranteed. The only solution is long-term human development that will take decades, but that also begins with a change in how people perceive themselves which is where the Black Power movement came about, and it did a lot to de-brainwash the American black population from its slave mentality, while also building black proletarian subjectivity!

Of course they got fucked up by the cops. Then:

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None of what you describe is different from the situation white trash faces. They are similarly represented by stooges of capital who actively work against their interests, and they also don't control their regional economy. The Koch brothers care just as little about the proverbial West Virginia miner as the people of Campbell soup do for "their" black workers.

Try as you might, it is not correct to apply these kind of theories on citizen populations inside a nation absent some kind of explicit apartheid.

That he is probably right, but only in a way. The way production and consumption is currently organized would have to be drastically changed because the developing world would have to be given more attention, but without significantly endangering the ecology. That probably means stagnation or declining consumption in the west while these things are reorganized in a sustainable, collective manner so that hopefully in the long run everybody has more access to basic goods and services, and more stability. I think there is wide room for affording people more free time, and wide room for certain kinds of consumption. Everybody could have access to quality education, health care, transport, mass forms of entertainment, housing, etc. They could have access to great food, to many durable hobbyist consumer goods like instruments or cameras. But many frivolous consumer goods produced at an incredibly cheap rate would probably have to go unless we achieve cheap and effective automation. Annual upgrades to shit like new gopros, new iphones every year, even new things like the mid life cycle console upgrade etc. would probably have to stop and be extended out more to assist in access and more efficient planning (you can have a factory producing something over some 5 year period with no significant upgrades at a plateau'd rate effectively, and other industries can pivot around it easily, rather than having everything changing all the time).

It was a necessity to sustain profit rates. Their standard of living is stagnating or declining because it hit the wall of capitalist share of profit. At a certain point they stopped budging, investment was floundering and the response was for the neoliberals to start a campaign of slashing the redistributive state and opening up international trade to greater capital mobility.

There was explicit apartheid in the United States. Not even that long ago, like within my parents' lifetime. It only "officially" ended in 1964, the same year Keanu Reeves was born. I think a lot of what is bemoaned as "identity politics" is really attacks on groups (like the Black Panthers) who tried to interject Marxist class analysis *into* the civil rights movement; which absent that – as it turned out – would result in upward mobility for members of minority groups, who would enter the bourgeoisie, but leaving behind a much larger underclass population behind.

Look at what Adolph Reed, Jr. wrote in 1996:
But also worth noting Reed is one of the smartest left-wing critics of identity politics. But the term means different things to different people. I sort of see "bad idpol" as like Hillary Clinton saying we can't break up the banks because it won't end racism or something.

And forgot to mention that Reed was talking about Obama in 1996. He was right.

My point exactly. The American left is stuck working with a cultural language of the sixties, much like the French in 1848 reached back to 1789. In these case even the repetition itself has become a farce, seeing as how the sixties were not at all revolutionary in the end.

I'm all for playing that game - sell a higher minimum wage because it would benefit blacks the most and whatnot, that's great. But don't inscribe it back into the theory, because then that theory will in turn trigger bad practice, metaphorically represented by turning BLM into a "find a black owned business" app.

Idpol isn't inherently bad, but America doesn't have simply idpol. It has some form of recursive idpol that divides identities into subsets continuously constantly creating new identities.
Look at gender, there's tens of them, the number of genders grows every year, as does the types of sexual orientations people can have. Each an identity with it's own list of grievances and position in the whole intersectionality matrix.
If the duty of a leftist is to argue to every single one of these identities and convince them that socialism is the path forward, it becomes obvious how impossible that is as the list of identities keeps getting longer and longer. Furthermore, with word policing that becomes even harder. Imagine trying to convince all these identities while traversing a minefield. Any bad word or phrase blows you up and you personally probably won't have another chance again in the age of social media.

I think this applies to the entire west, not simply America.

identity politics has destroyed the zoo the boons run wild and the lions sleep with lambs and the pigs walk right up to jewish visitors and wolves and coyotes regularly miscegenate and produce disease mutts

the reign of the boons must end we need to Bing back the zoo keepers order must be restored

i get what you're saying but the whole "theres a billion genders and sexualities nowadays!" kind of argument feels kind of outdated considering those "new genders" are all included in trans activism, so it doesn't matter if people come up with new genders, it's still all trans. same thing with sexualities, no matter what kind of labels people come up with, the core of the movement is always going to be support for same gender relationships.

so basically, the only people really making a big deal out of the "many genders and sexualities" that are supposedly popping up are people who don't engage with LGBT activism to begin with. while there are some annoying outliers and a lot of infighting, the goals are all the same: strive to make the world a better place for people who are attracted to the same gender, and trans people.

the only reason idpol is so important to the LGBT community and other minorities is that it actually gives them some results. like it or not, whining about identity politics has given liberal minorities some rights. i think idpol is moreso people trying to make the capitalist system less aggressive towards them because that's what they're currently living in. most of these people don't even know all that much about socialism and what it means to their identities.

right now these people are so concerned with their identities because in a late capitalist world where everything is commodified, their cultivated identities are all they have. instead of demonizing them we should be trying to radicalize them. and that's really easy considering a huge chunk of them have no faith left in the current system since the right keeps trying to strip them of their rights.

Just look at "TERFs", every new identity can lead to conflicts with prior identities.
The weaker Christian identity gets and as the right becomes more secular, it's defense of capitalism will remain, but LGBT's reason for aligning against it will fade.

The case for class identity is it's reality, in it's functional processes to oppress, you feel your own exploitation once you are conscious to it's mechanisms. The same thing can be said for your race, it carries a reality with it pertaining to the processes which govern signification according to race, a reason we have race in the west is because of white supremacy dictating the inferiority and otherness of Africans and Asians rather than an integration of common humanity into the whole. History thus is not just dictated by class, but other systems of oppression which intersect and suppress unity, since division has always been a tool of authority, unity would abolish hierarchy. Obviously we understand the different effects that gender can have on our experience, and some might say something dumb like transwomen are actually men, but if we are judging from experience here, not as many men are as sexually harassed or openly mocked for their appearence as transwomen, so equating transpeople with their assigned gender would defeat the purpose of these categories to begin with since we would all have nothing to relate our common masculinity or femininity to, in terms of our experience. Gender is a performance of a particular class of society, you could even look at it darwinistically and say that the respective ideals of gender in society cannot be fulfilled by certain people, so they phase into a new mode of being for survival, I would at least point to this type of logic when we look at sexual destiny.

Basically, race and gender are real, in the same ways that class is present in our experience, and some people extend class to other categories too, to be more inclusive as a means of solidifying unity. In the 60s, the black activists were fighting with queer activists, who wanted to lead a poor people's march with MLK leading it, but porky killed our comrade before the revolution could take place. Intersectionality isn't a new academic creation, it's just the adaptation of socialism towards more libertarian and egalitarian grounds.

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Exactly, so that's why porky keeps inventing new identities to subscribe to.
Every single identity's oppression must be acknowledged by anther identity or there proceeds to be conflict. Furthermore, you get conflict between those of different combinations of identities. For example, black gay feminists complain that white cis feminists are oppressing them in some way. The more identities you have the harder it gets to placate everyone which results in division.

And by "groups" here you mean ruling-class hucksters.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Woodhull

the world is more complicated than:
worker - capitalist
you can't have a revolution just appealing to these labels.

class is an exercise of oppression, not some abstract feeling. I claim that racism is real in this sense yet you reserve it to the realm of the imagination, you are being extremely reductionist.

You're welcome.

The farcical repitition of history is exactly why we must examine the historical context behind the ghosts that haunt the present, through the contextualization of the debates we are having today in the debates we had yesterday, from the perspective of how they evolved into what they have became.

What should be noted is the narrative of an internal colonization is one that is prevalent among the cultural “radicals” fully immersed in identity politics. It finds its historical roots in the attempt at New Left radicalism to contextualize the anti-racist struggle in the US as an expression of a global anti-colonial struggle. Of course, the cultural “radicals” have turned this notion on its head, and understood the anti-colonial struggle as being subsumed by the specifically American anti-racist struggle rather than the other way around. The problem with both movements was that they were ultimately failures, and the moribund contradictions both movements faced have neither been truly confronted nor practically overcome - all that is left are hollowed shells of what once, empty forms devoid of any substance. While we should resurrect these debates, and contextualize them in the movement of history, we must undersand them to overcome the contradictions we have inherited from them.

Yeah you can, just look at the communist revolutions that actually happened.
The average worker is uneducated and not knowledgeable in all the gender studies, race studies, sexuality studies, each of which have their own 4 year specialized bachelors degrees that only the wealthy can truly afford to acquire.

The workers ignorant of all the various forms of oppression going on must depend on the very "ruling-class hucksters." this user mentioned. They don't have time to independently learn everything themselves (they have to work), so they depend on celebrities to teach them. Of course these celebrities look out primarily for their own interests, not the workers. So they all point in different directions on who is fucking over who as the workers remain disunited. Reductionism has an appeal in that it keeps things simple. You see porky has figured a way to stifle class consciousness. Rather than censor things, just provide information overload. Workers are now aware of oppression from so many angles they don't even know where to begin.

If workers have enough time to rot their brains watching television, then they have enough time to educate themselves. Housewives and househusbands should certainly be becoming more conscious of oppressive systems in society, but they waste all their fucking time on facebook or watching tv, and I say this out of spite of the opportunities they're wasting. I have frequent communication with my mother, she says that being a housewife is the hardest job in the world, which is to view the family in a corporate structure rather than a communal one, but she has confirmed that she is an authoritarian anyway - I have tried to educate her on politics and tried to promote class consciousness in solidarity with the whole working class, but she has this reactionary anti-immigrant attitude, she is the type of person to like Nigel Farage owning the libs but also complain about the lack of public funding in our country or low wages. She said that she supports Jeremy Corbyn, but for what end is this fight fulfilling if it is all in ignorance? I am not a believer in populism for this precise reason, many workers are unconscious, and I don't wish to exploit this in political strategy, but I wish to broadcast information to generate awareness. I think leftists really need to make accessible, entertaining and informative content to replace popular media with, if we are slaves to the holographic beast, at least it will provide some effective subconscious echo.

I am not looking for the seperation of class analysis, but the expansion of it to equate for the united experience of the proletariat, reduction disqualifies particular features of an individuals oppression, but there doesn't have to be compromise, but a theory of combining them all together so that we can progress together.

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Good post.

I dunno about that. I think there are a lot of hustlers but I think working-class women of color, say, are really smart and know a lot about exactly the position they're in. We like to dress it up in a lot of phraseology about intersectionality but they know how society is run. I might be wrong but I'd say to watch the movie Jackie Brown or something.

I also think the many-genders thing is like a punk movement. That's the way I see it.

I wandered into this band called Machine Girl that was playing across the street from a bar I was hanging out in. I walked in and saw like 50 people in their late teens and early twenties moshing pretty violently, with a lot of gender-bending outfits, makeup, etc. The genderqueer singer was wearing a dress. It was all very punk like seeing The Stooges in the early 1970s or something. I really see it as a counter-cultural movement like early punk: youtu.be/_Q_xtwpciAI

There's also a right-wing version of this with some of the alt-right stuff: It's heavily wrapped up in extreme body modification except they want to turn themselves into Aryan ubermensch bodybuilders, and it's heavily an anti-trans movement and bound up in an artificially-constructed gender identity of their own.

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Regarding the easier access to info,how do you feel about the "breadtubers?"

idk who they are specifically, i watch a few small leftist channels but i assume you are *not* talking about something like contrapoints or philosophy tube, or are you?

Amazing shitpost, Ubisoft Marx.

i guarantee you gays aren't going to disappear in a few years just because TERFs are shitheads. a lot of TERFs are lesbians who still want gay rights, and even if they posed any threat to the LGBT movement as a whole, they're still a very small number of individuals and their "attacks" solely consist on mass searching for TERF on twitter and flagging all joke tweets as targeted harassment. trust me, TERFs aren't the end of gays.

i agree that infighting is a problem though, but a lot of that stems from the fact these liberals want change WITHIN the capitalist system. that's where conflicts arise, TERFs want better women rights but they don't think trans women are women, however in a socialist state that wouldn't be a discussion to begin with because women would already have their rights by default.

i hadn't thought of it that way before, you're right. i personally think gender expression outside the norm should be accepted and encouraged by the radical left because it's one way to defy the status quo while remaining true to who you are and what you want.

That's nice and all but it's not the business and socialists, unless this is understood as making the world a better place for them in their social role as workers.

If class exists as an identity we should still not care about idpol. Because the class we care about is the relation of production, not any kind of identity that might exist alongside it. You're trying to trick us into supporting idpol with a fucking wordgame.

Nothing to do with the thread but why was Marx portrayed like an autistic philanthropist in assassin’s creed?

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cuLtURaL MaRXiSm
Honestly though, because Syndicate was meant to be some great message about empowering the working class: but it was made by a load of libs.

He was similar to a rich girl in SWTOR that cared about animals(aka Karl Marx was rich and only cared about the workers out of sympathy)
Tho his missions were logical except the last one when
"Killing people and destroying property solves nothing. Democracy is the only road to socialism."
―Karl Marx rejecting violence as a method to achieve the emancipation of the working class, 1868

Bitch with two retweets is an example of relevant data?

I don't think the right has nearly as many fracturing idpol problems as the left