Why should I join the ＤＳＡ if it claims to be a "big-tent multi-tendency organization" but rejects central planning and declares "market mechanisms are 'needed' to determine the demand for many consumer goods"?
dsausa.org
If you shut out all other views on your main website of what socialism could be (like ones without markets) other than your own, that doesn't make your organisation very "multi-tendency", does it?
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
abetterphillydsa.com
twitter.com
The Democrat Cops of America was for the longest time (and still largely is) a clusterfuck of radlibs who just wanted to be the left-wing of the DNC (pic related) and FBI agents. Join if you want but don't expect much. There are no good orgs in the US because the US police state is extremely powerful and pervasive. You will be in a database and will probably be hunted down during the lead up to the war that ends American hegemony.
It baffles me why central planning wouldn't be sought after in our current time with the advancements in computing that's been made since the dissolution of the USSR
You can run
You can hide
BUT YOU CAN NEVER ESCAPE YOUR SECTARIANISM
brainletism
Completely off-topic and saged: how did you manage to write D S A with that kind of font?
there's nothing wrong with the Democrat Cops of America supporting the BDS you absolute boomer.
DSA cybernetic caucus when?
That's the point. The fact that a literal zionist felt at home in the Democrat Cops of America for decades is a very bad sign.
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What you should do is go to a meeting of your local Democrat Cops of America, and if they're a bunch of liberals avoid them like the plague and never go back. My local chapter hates the Democrat Cops of America as a whole but they're stuck with the name, and I think its not too uncommon for a local chapter to be actual socialists who hate the larger Democrat Cops of America.
The American left is both plagued with desire to distant themselves from everything Soviet.
That, and being retarded.
This. It's a broad tent so some chapters are great and generally use the DemSoc label to convert people while other chapters are just liberals.
Up to you. I joined because I'm from a pretty conservative area in which there were no socialist groups at all when I was growing up, now there is and it has a lot of people and it was easy to get involved. I couldn't deal with bullshit from Democrats anymore. The approximate cause was the violence in Charlottesville when I saw a picture of a red D*SA flag flying in that park after the Nazis had been driven out. And I was pissed off and angry and I thought: at least they're doing something, so I'm going to join them. I told this story to a Trot I later met, and the Trot was like "damn, we should've had a flag there…"
Anyways, most of the people I've met in there seem pretty radical to me. I would imagine in a socialist state that there would still be a consumer market economy in various sectors for awhile, like for socks and underwear and so on. You don't think that's true? Actually a lot of people in D*SA would agree with you. But I would also encourage you to check out Leninist groups like the APL, PSL, FRSO, etc. Ultimately I don't really care about the name or org very much, but more about whether it's active where I live, and the people in it, and I like the people I've met. A lot of the people are a lot smarter at me and better at political organizing than I am for sure.
Nah that's ridiculous because the D*SA will endorse the war ho ho ho!
Basically, a whole bunch of young people who got "activated" by Bernie Sanders joined the D*SA after the Dems ratfucked him out of the nomination, so there's a generational clash within the org. I think the National Political Committee is mostly an empty shell and the actual structure of D*SA is like a loose confederation of local chapters that vary a lot; something kind of like the Jacobin Club. More of an interface to do stuff rather than a "party." This has its positives and negatives. Once I started reading Lenin I'm seeing the negatives of this.
On the positive side, I think we Americans are so alienated in general that groups like this are important, since you can get out of the house, meet people, talk about socialist stuff, etc. And most of the members are in their twenties and thirties and are doing productive things.
Yeah I'm really fascinated by big, grand-style central planning with modern tech, like Amazon but if it was state-owned.
On a surface level though I'm a fan of the D*SA's branding which is all about Burger-fying socialism in a very American way. Miami D*SA's logos all look like Vice City, and Las Vegas uses neon signs and stuff like that. I think people who wear ushankas on their head and LARP as the Soviets are treated as a joke in the U.S. like this Brazilian sketch comedy bit:
That film is Portuguese but yeah: DSА aesthetics are quality.
I honestly think Momentum in the UK could learn a lot from their direct action praxis: especially about linking with community groups and localising various messaging. Atm Momentum just uses the same logo everywhere and it isn't even that good.
Unless you're joining as an entryist to push them farther left, don't bother.
that's most likely exactly what he's doing
So DSА members: what are the positive elements of the organisation in your opinion? I am thinking of how to incorporate them into Momentum. Obviously the localistic branding is a start, anything else?
kek, zero self awareness
The DSА is a bit of a joke and smaller than Momentum. As someone said the only good thing to take from them is some of their cool aesthetics.
Well they are actually basically the same size: DemSocs have 55k membership and Momentum is about 50k iirc.
Considering America has almost five times the population, that is a lot smaller per capita.
Thought it was bigger tbh, probably has a lot more visibility because the UK is tinier.
The DSА are brokebrains though and America should be used as a template for things not to do if anything.
DSA "members" are basically anyone who signs up, a fraction of them actually go to meetings or do anything.
Don't they charge dues?
Also the person they support is the leader of the Labour Party and Democrat Cops of America will have 2 congresswomen in January.
DSA had 25k members last year
Tlaib and Ocasio-Cortez
Hmm says they are both part of the Democratic Party. Maybe they forgot to add "Socialists of America" part?
They're members of both, you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected if you're not a Democrat or Republican.
Yes, I think it's like $5 a month. Doesn't stop the "members" from dropping out.
Shut the fuck up opportunist
This thread is what it would look like when FBI disinformants are spreading bullshit about your organisation.
Wreckers, not even once.
This. Burgers can't get away with doing anything. Fuck, we can't get away with doing nothing cops still kill us constantly. And US capitalism has to fall before socialism can happen so I dunno the rest of the world has to invade us I guess.
D*SA is not a registered political party, so they don't "stand" candidates for elections in that sense, though they have members who do get elected.
And yeah Tlaib and AOC are members. I'm not sure how many D*SA members are in elected office. A few dozen I think. There are two in my neck of the woods who got elected to judge positions this year, believe it or not.
I'm for it because local politics here are so brutally right-wing that this process of seeing self-declared socialists winning elections – even minor local ones – has honestly been shocking to me. Anything "left of liberal" is good enough for me. These judges were also running on ending the cash bail system because that's how you get out of jail here: you pay cash. The bondsmen make money off this and donate to criminal court judicial candidates (we elect many judges in America) because they profit off this system. The net result is that people pay cash if they can (especially if you can't afford to sit in jail for a week and lose your job), or they plead guilty to minor crimes just so they can get out of jail. This is one among many reasons why the United States has the largest prison population in the world and the highest per capita incarceration rate, and more people on some kind of probation or parole than there are citizens of Ireland and Norway. A decade ago, that number was double what it is now. Evil people make money off this.
I was at a thing recently and an 18-year-old girl whose only parent (her mother) died the night before, and the girl just lost her job and was living in crappy conditions in an apartment, was worried about paying the rent. Some folks hooked her up with some charities, but life is just fucking brutal for some people. They wind up on the street and get turned into pink mist. Nobody gives a damn. A guy got crushed to death inside a garbage truck where I lived recently because he fell asleep inside a dumpster. There are plenty of empty homes but real-estate interests own local politics.
Incidentally, I was talking to a fellow D*SA member who is critical of the org (not radical enough in his view), but he liked it because he moved here recently and could immediately plug into the left and anti-capitalist scene. He also compared to it the Shriner's – you know the guys who drive around in tiny cars in 4th of July parades wearing fezs on their heads? Mostly it's a community service and social club for old men. They raise money for children's hospitals and so on. I'm kinda thinking the D*SA will evolve into a "dual-card" framework where you are a D*SA member but you're also a member of another org and the former serves as a kind of interface.
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They shouldn't endorse democrats. It sends the wrong message.
Their message is to drag the democrats to the left (or drag leftists into the democrats depending on how you look at it)
The Democrats and Republicans have legislated themselves into a two-party system. Independents rarely get anywhere. If you wanna do anything electorally you don't really have an option. Plus its not like you have to swear fealty to the DNC to join, its nothing but a letter next to your name.
The democrats are not a political party. By "pulling them left" from within you are helping what is essentially a non-profit org dedicated to the preservation of american capitalism survive. The democrats will only go as left as their donors/owners want them to. Also don't be so quick on the whole "two party" meme. Just because there has to be two dominant parties doesn't mean that the democrats or republicans have to be one of them.
I think you're right on the first part, I don't agree with the strategy.
lol maybe we can get the democrats to collapse so bad that they rename themselves like the Federalists and Whigs did. It'd be funny but I don't see how it would help things.
Can we agree that Gloria Steinem and other radlibs are simply CIA agents? The notion that the Democrat Cops of America is socialist yet spouts neoliberal free market garbage makes my skin crawl.
that sketch is gold!
Prepare the ground, user. At least you have easy access to weapons and a vast wilderness!!!
I don't really care about particular parties, but I'm fine with them endorsing certain Democrats as a way to advance a message and as publicity basically. I don't think electing left-wing Democrats will get rid of capitalism. To be honest, where I live in the U.S., if you want to run "left-leaning" candidates who can win, you'd need to run guys like Jon Tester from Montana who calls himself an "anti-big-business prairie pragmatist" who is pro-gun. He has won three Senate elections there.
DSA just retweeted the queer faction's retarded meme.
The comments are overwhelmingly negative and pretty much any non-socialist who sees that shit is going to have their Reagan-tier understanding of socialism re-affirmed and they'll continue to believe that socialism means gay sex plus communal toothbrushes.
Isn't this right up your alley?
CIA psyop confirmed.
DSA is literally just libs who rebranded after the election and are LARPing as leftists.
These Democrat Cops of America libs spend all day calling people out for being problematic and do little else.
What an absolute farce. Is there no opposition within the Democrat Cops of America to this shit? I thought Amber A'Lee Frost was really popular in those circles. Seems pretty based and redpilled. Or is she too problematic these days too?
Isn't the national Democrat Cops of America still controlled by boomers and radlibs?
There are, broadly speaking, two groups of reactionaries within the D..S..A that Zig Forums and other "D..S..A-sceptic" sites tend to confuse with each other and with the org and its other sections as a whole.
Here's a full rundown of who is who currently in the D..S..A
"Good guys":
The national D..S..A's board is currently dominated (only by a plurality, importantly) by the Momentum caucus. Momentum is directly inspired by the British org of the same name. They focus on mass-action for M4A, unionization efforts, and are broadly speaking anti-idpol insofar as they are firm in their belief that class comes before all other concerns in a socialist movement. They are not Communists, but are pretty firmly not social democrats or radlibs.
The Refoundation caucus is the actual Communist caucus in the org, but it pretty much only exists on paper as while there's a reasonable about of members they have failed to organize any real-world praxis which leaves them in a weak position overall.
The Libertarian Socialist caucus (which, disclaimer, I am part of) is broadly affiliated with Momentum in policy goals but views their leadership style as a bit tonedeaf and topheavy. The Libsocs are more focused on local praxis with particular focus on disaster relief as seen in Houston and the Florida Panhandle.
In terms of actual reactionaries within D..S..A:
There still exists a few thousands old members from before 2016, many of whom subscribed to Harrington's "vision" of the org as the "left wing of the possible". To many that meant being perma succdems; it's from this group that the cop who tried to become a leader in the org a few years ago came from(and lead to Zig Forums BO instituting this wordfilter). Their relevance at this point is negligible as the org has grown so much and many older members have been convinced that a more radical path is needed.
The more dangerous faction is the radlib faction, which isn't really one unified caucus and more of an amorphous tumor existing within the org (though in Philly they have established LILAC as an umbrella group). On the plus side, they are actually involved in community organizing, but on the very much downside they are extremely idpol. Highlights from the linked manifesto include diversity quotas on org boards and banning white men from being invited to speak. This group doesn't have a chance of capturing D..S..A leadership but they distract from actually important matters and force the org into pointless navelgazing at a time when cementing our foothold in the popular zeitgeist is crucial. While I know that AOC isn't exactly popular on Zig Forums, her election and more importantly her message (more or less pure focus on bread and butter working class issues, v little idpol) has significantly dampened the radlibs.
abetterphillydsa.com
Thank you. This is super helpful for a non-Burger. Good to hear the Momentum people and you guys have the upper hand. I wouldn't worry about them not being radical enough at this point. It's from such ill defined movements that greater things always rise. People have to come together before they can finally decide on a path of action.
My question then would be this: why do you let the radlibs control your twitter account? (Not trying to be a dick, serious question, since aesthetics is super important) Do you think there's any possibility of just pushing these people out of the movement in the future?
Why isn't electoral reform part of their activity? Fargo just adopted Approval Voting and they had nothing to do with it, they don't even talk about it.
No. They were twitter idpol ADHD spastics and recently prolapsed disbanded.
worst branch in the whole org
HAHAHAHA NO. They're idpol nutjobs.
Not him, and not in the DemCops. However, knowing that the DemCops is a very decentralized org, I'd imagine that there is no binding resolution-making organ within it to enforce a "party line" (or as close to one as is possible) on social media (shit)posting and etiquette. This obviously gives the extremely online radlib autists an edge in the diffusion of their views through that very platform.
TL;DR: We need a Democratic Centralist party in America to counteract this kind of bullshit
There's a national org and they put out a party line, broad in most respects but they support candidates and things like BDS. Social media is run by whoever wants to do it with no oversight generally, the one who runs my local one was just someone who offered to do it when it was a dozen old people.
I don't think twitter accounts matter much, its a pile of bourgeois neurotics and psychopaths arguing with each other for no reason. That "working class is queer" video will only be seen by people who either agree or would never join.
I like the Momentum style shit the national is doing, it has been making strong headway and I'm excited for 2020, and locals have been doing shit like brakelight clinics and other mutual aid stuff.
Holy shit burn the while thing fucking down that's disgusting.
Aren't they also the ones who are led by the son of a CIA millionaire and push the disabilities caucus militancy?
DSA isn't a real party, it's literally just an organization that runs ads and throws events for democratic party candidates
How much influence does the Democrat Cops of America have on the Green Party?
also momentum is actually left-wing and since it has many from the older Bennite generation and older left wing union leaders it doesn't have the same level of crap that Democrat Cops of America has.
Members can be anyone on their email list, practically.
The Democrat Cops of America has always been a caucus of the Democrat party.
Only go there to radicalize young, new members and poach them for your party.