Why is Trotsky usually hated around socialist circles of all sorts...

Why is Trotsky usually hated around socialist circles of all sorts? Permanent Revolution and International Revolution sounds pretty based to me.

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution
youtube.com/watch?v=DTFN8zGJO4Q
archive.org/stream/QuiteRightMrTrotsky/Quite Right Mr Trotsky
wengewang.org/read.php?tid=17591
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

"Permanent revolution" literally meant perpetual warfare. It was incredibly unpopular with the Soviet masses.
Trotsky was a whiny lying cunt. He couldn't get any popular support for his crazy ideas, so he resorted to smears and a coup attempt. He got kicked out and still kept whining constantly until he forced Stalin to shut him up.

Dude we have this fucking thread every month or so

Ehh no
Fucking no
Not even close
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution
Why are you denying to even google it…

anarchists and leftcoms hate Trotsky because of his role in putting down kronstadt

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Because there was the soviet equivalent of a red scare accusing anyone and everyone of being trotskyist, blaming every problem under the sun on trotskyist wreckers and using the comintern to extend this smear campaign and purge internationally so that within every comintern affiliated communist party there could be a purge of 'trotskyists' and anyone could be accused of being one giving the leadership the excuse to shout down, intimidate and in some cases outright murder party members.
Anarkiddies literally just know him as 'le ebil anarchy destroyer'
Anyway we have this thread every week and no one comes away any smarter because no one reads trotsky anyway, people know the words 'permanent revolution' and extrapolate their own meaning from it and that is for them enough, see here

It doesn't

lol @ the idea that the soviet masses knew about theoretical in-fightings of the Communist Party

The army loved him and that's why Stalin had to go purge everyone

Source: confession extracted through torture from someone who probably never interacted with Trotsky

he was jewish

but so was Marx

Wikipedia is Trotskyite propaganda, Trotsky's concept of it was to constantly try to expand the USSR through warfare without taking any breaks.

The disease of nationalism affects leftists too.

No, that isn't true at all. I'm not even a trot and Trotsky himself did a lot of stupid shit but stop claiming all this fake horseshit and stop spreading lies about trotskyist theory. Makes you sound like a retarded dogmatic ultratankie autist.

Nice try traitor
Wikipedia is trot-bukarinist-nazi-japanese propaganda to destroy true socialism
Off to gulag now

stupid ☭TANKIE☭

But tolerance to market and fascism are not.

He's only hated by the cultists found in the dark recesses of the left, like this armpit messageboard.

Also the captcha here is too fuckin hard

Trotskyism is actually quite popular IRL. Here in the UK it is probably the most popular leftist tendency.

Partly because his modern followers have a reputation for being obnoxious and constantly trying to infiltrate other orgs.

why am I not surprised a fucking four can’t into captchas?

Literally the only people who I have seen who go MUH KRONSTADT are Actual Literal Fascists

The absolute state of ☭TANKIE☭s

That's like saying the Cold War was called cold because it was fought in winter.

Perpetual Revolution is literally worldwide revolution though.

I'm not a 100% ☭TANKIE☭ but the Kronstadt sailors were in the wrong. They would have allowed the ships to get into Prussia's hands if they had their way.

Because British trots are fucking insufferable.

They did the wrong things for the right reasons. Their concerns about creeping authoritarianism and erosion of proletarian democracy were legitimate (and in the long run proved justified) but their reaction threatened the entire revolution.

Even if you believe that, you have to admit, it kind of forced his hand.
There was no way to protect what they had without putting them down

His followers are really dogmatic. That's it.

In complete agreement, the grievances voiced by the insurgent sailors were of paramount importance, but the choice to pursue armed insurrection threatened the entirety of the revolutionary pursuit. This is not to side with the fortress hypothesis that internal dissent always comes at the cost of compromising the entity to outside enemies; however, the exigencies of the war had made necessary the consolidation of political capital and military infrastructure in the hands of a Bolshevik party that may not have seen discipline as an end of unity, but as a means of unity. It, without any doubt, represents a tragic event in the revolutionary canon and a point of notice to future agitators about the critical point of balance for critique and the pursuit of unitary action in future movements.

I think sectarian socialists usually have mental problems, but Trotskyist mental problems are particularly severe in nature because of the circumstances of Trotsky's downfall. This makes Trotskyists paranoid of other leftists and causes them to get twisted up into ideological knots.

I'm no expert and see if I'm wrong here, but Trotskyists – being enemies of Stalin and his successors – could never accept the Soviet line on anything, but because they believed themselves to be committed to revolutionary socialism, could not support the United States either. Trots seemed to take a "neither Washington nor Moscow" line. This would lead to Trotskyists taking the anti-Soviet position while simultaneously opposing U.S. interventionism in foreign conflicts. I don't think this is coherent. So you would expect a Trotskyist paper to say (referring to the SED, the ruling party of East Germany): "Down With the Stalinoid SED – Germany Out of NATO!" It is kind of bizarre.

This has carried over to today. For a more recent example, search for articles about the Syrian war in Socialist Worker, the newspaper of the International Socialist Organization, the Trotskyist group in America that recruits mainly on college campuses. First of all: This stuff is totally unreadable. Secondly, they are extremely anti-Assad and want him overthrown, and complain a lot about how the U.S. failed to arm the rebels sooner, but they also don't support arming the rebels because … that'd be U.S. imperialism. They don't even really support the Why-Pee-Gee – they collaborated too much with Assad – and preferred the FSA and to oppose ISIS: "grassroots organizing in cities like Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor."

Anyways I think this is the process that turns Trots into neocons.

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I completely agree, I’m just saying that the Kronstadt rebels weren’t reactionaries by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary I think they were committed revolutionaries who were worried that the pressures of the war were endangering the long term health of the revolution, and they were right. The problem was that they acted irresponsibly at a critical moment, and so tragically had to be put down. Imo the best response would have been to crush the revolt by force, but show leniency to the rebels themselves. Maybe give them light to moderate prison sentences and actually implement their more reasonable demands, such as new elections to the Soviets.

I'm as Stalinist as it can get and I don't hate Trotsky-sama, he's just a baffoon.

Maybe it's because of NeoCons like Christopher Hitchens who say they were Trots and then demand that entire regions of the World should be nuked.

why did you call trotsky you stupid bitch

Trotskyites are the Socialist equivalent of suicide bombers. They're great to unleash on your enemies, but they're a danger to anyone in their vicinity.

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He's hated by edgy internet MLs whose choice of ideology stems purely from enjoying having a framework that allows them to defend Stalin. OP read The Revolution Betrayed, Trotsky was right.

youtube.com/watch?v=DTFN8zGJO4Q

that's the funniest photo i've ever seen

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/thread
Trotsky BTFO

Because he was a jealous traitor who collaborated with Japanese imperialists against the soviets and is the foundation of one of the most annoying strains of bourg-sympathizing "leftists" on the planet.

lmao
source?

Ivan Passer's Stalin.

You're thinking of World Revolution, which is a different but also based concept. If the SU had invaded India we would be living in full communism today.

You're more than welcome to take special issue with the largely cosmetic difference in theory established in practical matters between the soviet government and Trotsky, but the accusations made against him with regards to collaboration with the Japanese Empire are thoroughly Furr-tier propaganda, without corroboration and wholly ideological in nature

Was Trotsky Naz-Tojo Gang?

Or Tojo-Bol Gang/ Yamato-Bol, I guess?

I keep hearing did all these terrible betrayals, but I have never seen anything other than hearsay

under rated post
Also, I would just add that despite all that, his History of the Russian Revolution is worth a read even if you don't agree with him on theory.

I fail to see why you have to support either side or the other when its clear they both have massive downsides. And if you don't this makes you incoherent? Like what

LMAO.Dunno where you are pal but in the UK the main trot party are universally hated by everyone for covering up sex offences by their leadership and generally trying to take over everything where nobody wants them, trying to turn everything into their front group

inb4 comment about maoist cults its a meme flag

I said sectarian socialists of all stripes have mental problems, and supporting everything the USSR did would be one manifestation of mental problems. A lot of those people now have odd ideas about China or whatever (I'm more of a "I Want to Believe" guy). But Trotskyist mental problems are metastatic and downright goofy. Just look at the ISO bungling itself over Syria. I don't think they have many members left at this point.

I think Trotskyists see the revolutionary moment as the pure, socialist element – like when everything is kind of up in the air and hasn't concentrated yet. This accords with how they view 1917 where they dismiss everything that happens after. I might be stretching things but then you'll see the ISO back the FSA because they represent the authentic revolutionary spirit or blah blah anyways I don't think it's that easy or simple.

Sure. I don't have any problems with Trotsky really. More like some of these bizarro sects that are still out there, which I would never join.

I agree. Trotskyite organisations seem to be some of the most opportunistic left political groups in the UK. They simply refuse to compromise with other parties for the majority of the time, this is what leads to so many splits and splinter groups, unless they are in direct control, they aren't interested. Trotskyism also seems to be an aesthetic to some people, they want to oppose the capitalist status quo, so they rightly turn to socialism/communism, but so they won't be associated with Lenin/Stalin/Generic complaints of soviet repression etc. so they turn to Trotsky. I'm personally not sure if its down to paranoia or the simple desire to always be the outlier, but this just leads to most Trot groups never really achieving anything and just creating a generation of burnouts (e.g the Hitchens brothers).

I'm personally not too hung up on the whole neither supporting Washing nor the USSR, as there are various forms of socialism that take this stance. I'd like to think that Bennite Socialism has one of the best interpretations of this stance, wherein one can acknowledge the shortcomings of soviet socialism despite the well meaning nature of State Communism, but not declare an outright permanent war on the soviet bloc. Similarly, one can critique US imperialism but attempt to oppose it through means other than a direct armed conflict against the entirety of NATO.

*Washington

Just fuck my spelling up comrades

sounds like KKE

unironicly in Greece,Maoists are considered the sectarians


Hey op people actually dont hate trotsky i am sure are most educated anons agree with him on most shit
Trot parties in some countries are shit but most trots are cool

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written by a massive ☭TANKIE☭ but it's a fun read: archive.org/stream/QuiteRightMrTrotsky/Quite Right Mr Trotsky

because Trotskyites and COMINTERN types were "hand in glove with the enemy" as Stalin observed.
Grasp this point, then read and memorize Chernov, "Bourgeois Cosmopolitanism and its reactionary role".
wengewang.org/read.php?tid=17591