Is it possible to be an "Eastern" (Hindu/Buddhist) mystic and a Marxist at the same time?
I ask because I would consider myself a Marxist-Leninist at the political level and I greatly admire the USSR and revolutionary movements around the globe, but I'm also strongly into Hinduism and Buddhism, like a really, really devout Buddhist. Can I be both at the same time or will I have to sacrifice one for the other?
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Marxism always come first.
But does Marxism have all the answers?
Also, please don't post Zizek copypastas as a means of attacking Buddhism/Hinduism. I'm not interested in him, I'm interested in the actual compatibility of these two world views (Dharmic religion and DiaMat).
I don't see a problem with it, but being a devout Buddhist may limit some of your political involvement and may compromise certain Marxist political stances. Hell, even the Dalai Lama considers himself a Marxist though I'm sure most here would heavily criticize his politics.
Depends on what you mean by "political involvement".
I don't see a problem. The spiritual realm and he material realm are distinct. Any one can be religious and at the same time believe that capitalism is inherently flawed as described by Marx.
I don't know much about the Dharmic stuff. With that said, I guess I just think what I think about any comrade who holds some kind of metaphysical belief. As long as the metaphysical stuff doesn't leak into your analysis of the material, I don't really see a problem.
read Mao
Through aggressive reinterpretation all things are possible, so jot that down.
Strange.
Isn't he technically like a king?
You can't be a revolutionary on earth and a reformist in heaven. Leave your idealist spooks behind.
Seems legit.
Why?
Would you say the same if I were Muslim? Christian?
do you reject materialism?
do you reject historical materialism?
Is this a fucking joke?
Yes. Twice as firmly.
There's a tendency on the modern left to view certain faiths as "revolutionary" and others as "reactionary". Shia Islam, for instance, is often propped up as a 21st century liberation theology.
Liberals.
Religion is the opium of the masses.
Do you understand Marx's actual position on religion?
Are you trying to go full revisionist on me?
Not at all. I want you to tell me, in your own words, Marx's actual position on religion.
Its just a political ideology. If you wanna be a marxist and a hindu or a buddhist than go for it. I would suggest however refraining from forming an identity out of either or both.
Yes lmao
Marxism is just Gnosticism, OP.
I guess you could argue that human suffering is perpetuated by the capitalist mode of production, which tries to make us all massive consumers and stray us away from the noble eightfold path. Communism will help humanity escape Samsara since it is the path that leads to least suffering for humans and the world at large.
Zen buddhism and anarchy are compatible. I'd say they even compliment each other.
Absolutely. Buddhacom is really quite coherent, and I'm surprised there isn't a flag for it.
I'd consider myself a Buddhist, among other things, and at the same time I'm as economically left-wing as a communist can be expected to be. To reduce and end human suffering is the end goal of both Buddhist teachings and Marxist economics – when asked how Marxist economics can lead to a better world for everyone, and how it can be considered compatible with Buddha's teachings, I always reply "it is as good as charity and community service is at making the world better". Perhaps moreso, since Marxist economics seeks to find and destroy the root of one of the world's greatest problems - absolute, tyrannical greed. That is something any Buddhist should think agree with, as an ideology's entire mission. Not only is Buddhism compatible with Marxism, I'd say they compliment eachother. Monastic communes already exist in quite a few places in Asia, now we have an economic theory that encourages them. At the same time, Buddhism provides the strength and dignity required for many people to represent Marxist theory to a greater degree, as well as strengthening the resolve of many people who seek to make the world a better place. I'd imagine a Buddhist nation that fully embraced Marxism would be one of the strongest nations, dominating the area around it easily due to the resolve of its' people. Could you imagine the wartime potential? Not only could the nation rally its' people to the cause of Socialism and of human liberation, but the conviction of the people would be strengthened ten-fold due to the nature of their own religious beliefs. Nobody in their right mind could deny the strategic value of that.
he synthesizes marxism with a bunch of traditional chinese mysticism
Read the Bhagavad Ghita, it's the closest you can get to a theory for infinite fascism forever in all timelines.
It's too diverse to say.
There was (is?) a movement of Indian Dalits who mass converted to Buddhism as a rejection of the caste system sprinkled with some socialist rhetoric, but I don't think they managed anything.
Theravada is a bit like Orthodoxy, in that it can justify the peasant commune and military dictatorship about equally well, depends on the material conditions but will side with actual power most of the times.
Mahayana in Japan and Korea is apolitical as it goes, nice takes on ecology and alienation but mostly irrelevant.
Zen/ Chan is against mass politics, most Roshi supported the Empire in WW2
The official Sokka Gakkai party started out as socdem but is in a coalition with the LDP for some ~20 years now.
nice
I've always liked Buddhism a lot more than Hinduism, because of its rejection of the caste system.
Women are better off being the proletarian of men than the proletariat of capitalism.
In a women a woman's husband stood as a vanguard against the harsh reality of the outside world
SHEIK Joseph Stalin
Noice.
Mysticism = belief this world is false (all traditions say this even Jewish/Muslim mysticism)
Materialism = belief this world is REAL
No compatibility.
Even if this world is false, that's no excuse for the endless suffering.
Marxism is a materialist science, stop trying to shove your bullshit into it
Marxism uses materialism to analyze the world.
It is possible for an analysis to be correct while the medium used is incomplete or even incorrect i.e we could have a correct view of the world through the lens of an incorrect standpoint(materialism)
Also there is no way scientifically to prove a materialist outlook is correct
the issue being the belief in chakras and other mystical things that flies in the face of dialectic materialism
Eastern mysticism is philosophically bankrupt. You are not a Marxist for tat reason alone.
now this is a hot take
Not really a fan of 'religious marxists' because most of the time they neither have a strong grasp on religion nor on marxism.
Buddhism is incredibly materialist. The idea is that you can analyze your material conditions by seperating yourself from them.
we are all outcroppings of Satanael
無。
Parenti on Budd
TL;DR direct quote "Buddhist were and still are worse than feudal lords/ slave owners and western Buddhism is for yuppie brainlets" t. Based parenti
michaelparenti.org
He's just saying that it hasn't always been free of reactionary elements.
That's not really all that surprising.
Most religions have had their right wing moments, so I'm not all that impressed..
How so?
mystics withdraw from the world and live a contemplative life
marxists are trying to be active in the class struggle
you'd need to be beyond a saint
Marxism is a completely and utterly materialist philosophy. Now, as an idea, you can warp it as much as you want. In the end, it only really exists in your head, and you can believe whatever you want, dependent or independent of reality.
The only way you could have a genuinely, tethered-to-reality Marxist stance and still keep your bullshit beliefs would be to compartmentalize them.
Believe in Marxism as it relates to the real world, and use Buddhism as it relates to the afterlife. Now, you almost certainly won't be able to do this perfectly, as I believe everyone wants an entirely consistent worldview. You will almost certainly mix your Marxist beliefs and your Buddhist beliefs. In fact, you already have in many ways, but I am sure there are ways you don't realize. Assumptions you have made, so on… No one can help but contaminate their own thinking with their thoughts.
Overall, you will be wrong in your spiritual beliefs, but it doesn't have to ruin your Marxist beliefs. Just know that you will always be different from an atheist Marxist and so on…
...
On some level, yes. While i dont believe in the mystical on the literal level ive came to look at materialism and postmodernism on this gnostic influenced level and see marxism as the logical conclusion to this, when not focusing on one specific theorist. Taking mysticism too literally and too far however does potentially open your way up to fascism and nick land however, so err on the side of caution imo.
Hindu traditions are all reactionary, except possibly for Advaita which might assert the same metaphysical ideas as Buddhism but in positive instead of negative terms. Buddha is to the Hindus as Christ is to the Jews, or as Marx is to Hegel. Because Buddhism was abolished from its homeland only a few hundred years after its birth and spread throughout asia, it's extremely fragmented today so it's hard to say anything universal about its branches. Mahayana (sans vajrayana) is probably the best bet when it comes to social engagement. That said, IF Buddhism is ultimately perfectly compatible with socialism (and I think it is):
The ultimate synthesis is: the written knowledge of the theravadan Pali canon + the social engagement of mahayana + the meditation of zen + the imagery of vajrayana = the means to turn a person into an unstoppable force against capitalism
is specifically describing Tibetan Buddhism i.e. Vajrayana and quite accurately. They have the best aesthetics but also used to have an incredibly backwards feudal-theocratic society. At least the current Dalai Lama has expressed regret toward the institution of his own religious elite and accepts it as a valid justification for the Maoist invasion, which is what inspired him to say pic related. Too bad all the western radlibs shouting "free Tibet" lack his nuance.
That's kind of a based quote.
I didn't know he was like that.
Hinduism and Buddhism are two different things. Retarded opinion discarded. Buddhism really came into its own in China, as Chan Buddhism that then spread to Japan as Zen and had a massive influence there. Buddhism is more close to Taoism, than to Hinduism. Zen rejects deities, which should set it apart from Hinduism at the start.
I just read properly what you wrote. My apologies. The rest of my post stands though.
True, unfortunately nobody see that marxism can work only inside a gnostic system.
Theory is practice though. Nothing wrong with living a withdrawn life so as long as you're writing shit.
Buddhism is idealist as fuck m8.
Point of enlightenment isn't to leave society, but to be able to come back to it.
Wasn't Hegel quite gnostic as well?
I would say so, without being a real Hegel or gnosticism expert. But I've read works of both and that's how it seems. Specifically the critical aspect of "self" and the Absolute. I think he might say something like, spirit only becomes absolute when it knows itself as such.
If theory was practice we wouldn't have two words.
This. In the Christian tradition I think it's called the active-contemplative, something that is neither the one nor the other (Huxley brings it up in relation to mescaline). There's an interesting Buddhist parable of the Ten Bulls, and the final mark of 'attained enlightenment' is precisely to go back into society "and every one he looks upon becomes enlightened".
My grandparents(on both sides) were among those converts. Parents believe in Hinduism though. my father claims to be a Buddhist, but still believes in Hinduism nonetheless. As for my mother, she consideres Buddha to be one of Vishnu’s Avatar. this applies to most of my extended family, except my few uncles(who are atheists/agnostics/socialists) who shit on Hinduism for generations of oppression