Roger Waters, lead of Pink Floyd, supports SEP in their defense of Julian Assange

Adam Rogers
Adam Rogers

Roger Waters, 9th February 2019

Switzerland

Julian Assange is a national Australian treasure. He is a brilliant, brave, honest, humane, relevant, genuine, journalist and publisher of immense influence and significance on the world stage. He has shown himself to be an enormous power for good in a world that is sadly, with some notable exceptions, (Yes John Pilger, I mean you among others,) starved of his ilk.

What Julian Assange is, as a publisher of real news, is a real hero. What he is not is a criminal. His initiative, WikiLeaks, helped expose to the world the hidden machinations of the real criminals in our society: the oligarchs, who in their insatiable quest for more and more wealth, would destroy the fragile planet we call home.

Julian, like all truth seekers scares the sh*t out of them. The truth is their enemy, that is why they and their agents, the governments of the western world, are determined to destroy him.

We, the citizens of the world, have an absolute duty to protect Julian Assange from their unwarranted and illegal attacks.

I unreservedly support and applaud the demonstrations called by the Socialist Equality Party in Australia to demand that the Australian government takes immediate action to secure the freedom of their citizen, Julian Assange, from his near seven-year house imprisonment in the Ecuadorian embassy in London. At least until recently the Ecuadorian presidency was solid in its promise of asylum, but the new president of Ecuador is showing himself to be more susceptible to insidious US pressure. Julian’s situation is dire.

BRING HIM HOME NOW!!!

RESIST!!!!!!!!!

DEMONSTRATE on MARCH 3rd in SYDNEY and MARCH 10th in MELBOURNE

AROUND THE WORLD, RAISE YOUR VOICE EVERYWHERE

DEMAND A SAFE HAVEN FOR JULIAN ASSANGE IN HIS HOME AUSTRALIA.

Love, R

wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/11/rwed-f11.html

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Other urls found in this thread:

wsws.org/en/special/sepjoin.html
wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/11/auto-f11.html
opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html
twitter.com/TheLexMagazine/status/1094953965291094017
bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=37826532
mega.nz/#F!DpAz2IgQ!nW7bPNnpJFk5CAV3ypiaHw
youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Zachary Kelly
Zachary Kelly

an SEP is somebody else's problem.

someone get this reference please and why it's relevant…

Chase Garcia
Chase Garcia

the governments of the western world
fuggin anti-amerigan butinist :-DDD

Jacob Ross
Jacob Ross

Once again, nobody cares about the SEP user.

Daniel Scott
Daniel Scott

makes at least 10 legendary albums
left-wing despite being of boomer age
anti-imperialist
How can one man be this based?

Asher Lee
Asher Lee

May i ask why do people here don't like the SEP?

Chase Kelly
Chase Kelly

Muh trots

Oliver James
Oliver James

trots
that and we don't like american parties generally

Jaxson Nguyen
Jaxson Nguyen

Joke party entirely funded, run and controlled by a millionaire paper-company capitalist.

Origins lie in the Workers Revolutionary Party, run by serial sex predator and virtual cult leader, Gerry Healey, who they split with after years of Healey defending Saddam and dobbing in Iraqi dissidents for large bags of oil-cash.

Although they've retained a more orthodox Trotskyist line than the degenerated Fourth International, the ICFI's main defining feature is utter sectarianism directed towards other Trotskyist groups (up to and including accusing American and British Trotskyists of being agents for both the KGB and CIA simultaneously).

At this point I doubt they know why they still exist. It's a tiny party that's got zero chance of ever building itself up to the level of the original US SWP, never mind an actual mass party. Their one attribute (the fact that the WSWS was quite high up on the Google rankings) has now gone after Google cracked down on 'fake news'.

Brandon James
Brandon James

David Gilmour once mentioned in a Facebook post that he was supporting Corbyn. Of course some retard in the comments started quoting Milton Friedman and tried to lecture him about the USSR. Also some boomer decided she no longer liked Pink Floyd after finding out Gilmour was a socialist, as if it weren't already obvious through their music that Pink Floyd were socialists.

Aaron Adams
Aaron Adams

millionaire paper-company capitalist.
WTF I HATE ROBERT OWEN NOW

Connor Perez
Connor Perez

as if it weren't already obvious through their music that Pink Floyd were socialists.
This is what gets me everytime.

How the fuck could anybody pay premium to see PF live then get offended at them being "commies"?

Jace Martin
Jace Martin

Was he the head of a nominally revolutionary communist party?

Chase Jenkins
Chase Jenkins

Waters >>>>>> Gilmore. Change my mind.

Jonathan Bennett
Jonathan Bennett

beatles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>those niggas

Connor Price
Connor Price

Reminder that Animals is the greatest anti-capitalist music album of all time.

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Joseph Myers
Joseph Myers

Despite their absolute commitment to anti-imperialism they have some extremely questionable views on sexual assault and, yeah, they are Trots so they're inherently a bit cringe.

Based

John Anderson
John Anderson

*blocks ur path*

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Carson Russell
Carson Russell

Joke party entirely funded, run and controlled by a millionaire paper-company capitalist.

Try running a party without money. Mehring Books sold marxist literature and the funds was used to run the SEP. North isn't a millionaire and slander/lies is the best opposition that other groups can come up with because they can't refute the principled analysis of the SEP.

Origins lie in the Workers Revolutionary Party, run by serial sex predator and virtual cult leader, Gerry Healey, who they split with after years of Healey defending Saddam and dobbing in Iraqi dissidents for large bags of oil-cash.

The WRP under Healy was the UK Branch of the ICFI which grew increasingly nationalist until differences were no longer reconcilable and a split was necessary. North and other leaders within the ICFI criticized the WRP's support of Hussein, the praise given to Khomeni, and uncritical support given to Khomeni and the WRP refused over and over the political council given by the ICFI. Ultimately the ICFI expelled Healy and the WRP from its membership in 1986.

The SEP was not formed out of the WRP as you claim but was organized later in 1995 as a transition from Labor Leagues to a Political party within the ICFI. It was formed out of an objective appraisal of the world situation, as the collapse of the USSR signaled the collapse of all bureaucratic organizations which claimed to represent labor. The SEP was formed because the ICFI acknowledged that workers could no longer rely on the trade unions for guidance and must instead turn towards a political party with a revolutionary perspective.

Although they've retained a more orthodox Trotskyist line than the degenerated Fourth International, the ICFI's main defining feature is utter sectarianism directed towards other Trotskyist groups (up to and including accusing American and British Trotskyists of being agents for both the KGB and CIA simultaneously).
Not only accused, but there is undeniable proof that there were GPU and CIA agents within the party. The story itself is quite fascinating and if you have the time you should read more into it as the Workers League did go through a lengthy court procedure where infiltration was proven.

At this point I doubt they know why they still exist. It's a tiny party that's got zero chance of ever building itself up to the level of the original US SWP, never mind an actual mass party. Their one attribute (the fact that the WSWS was quite high up on the Google rankings) has now gone after Google cracked down on 'fake news'.

The party is growing rapidly right now and is organizing within the working class. There was a recent rally organized by the SEP in Detroit and rank and file committees of workers are already forming. The WSWS serves as a invaluable asset informing workers and revolutionaries about strikes and struggles throughout the world. Take the Matamoros strike for example, besides small local news outlets, only the WSWS was covering it. The work of the party requires participation from everyone who feels the injustices of the capitalist system and wants to take action. I encourage anyone who is interested in joining the SEP in this thread to go to contact them at wsws.org/en/special/sepjoin.html

Eli Davis
Eli Davis

MARCH 10th in MELBOURNE
Do I have to interact with the fucking SEP?

Hudson Cook
Hudson Cook

Roger Waters based as always. The Final Cut, what a good record, I love each and every one of those songs, but my favourite will always be the closing one, Two Suns in the Sunset. I love playing those 3 simple chords on my acoustic guitar and dream about Posadism :)

Ian Young
Ian Young

Because they aren’t larpers. They organize the working class. Also they don’t hate Americans, so this board thinks they should be burned at the stake for that alone.
wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/11/auto-f11.html

Elijah Phillips
Elijah Phillips

Do I have to interact with the fucking SEP?
Yes because their is no better party.

Sebastian Brooks
Sebastian Brooks

It is hard to top a rogue flying pig that shuts down Heathrow

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Charles Anderson
Charles Anderson

Try running a party without money. Mehring Books sold marxist literature and the funds was used to run the SEP. North isn't a millionaire

opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html

"Grand River Printing & Imaging (GRPI) manufactures and markets commercial and corporate printed products. The company's products include annual reports and catalogs, magazines and newspapers, advertising inserts, and direct mail items. Additionally, it offers publication services such as workflow designing, text and graphic content development, creative designing and page assembly, project management, and desktop software training. GRPI also provides file preparation, color and list management, stochastic screening, soft proofing, and paper specification services. Grand River Printing & Imaging was founded in 1978 and is based in Belleville, Michigan."

Key executives of the company are listed as Mr. David W. Green, Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Kevin R. Donley,Vice President of Sales and Marketing. The Bloomberg link to David W. Green adds that "Mr. David W. Green is currently employed at Grand River Printing & Imaging in the position of Chief Executive Officer. He also owns the company."

Sure doesn't seem like just Marxist literature. North is also worth $25 million looking at the evidence in the article.

The SEP was not formed out of the WRP as you claim but was organized later in 1995 as a transition from Labor Leagues…
Splitting hairs. It clearly had its origins in the WRP.

Not only accused, but there is undeniable proof that there were GPU and CIA agents within the party.
The accusation was that the leaders of the rival trot parties were all simultaneous GPU/CIA agents, which is more ridiculous. Specifically that Joseph Hansen of the SWP personally sold Trotsky out. If he were a simultaneous GPU/CIA agent why would he later lead his party in opposing involvement in WWII, including leading strikes in war industries?

The party is growing rapidly right now and is organizing within the working class.
Still no indication that it's much bigger than the core of full time WSWS journalists whom David North pays to promote his personal political line out of his dividend payments.

Also not

Christian Perez
Christian Perez

trots should get trot'd upon if you know what i'm saying

Kayden Gomez
Kayden Gomez

First of all your sources are very dubious at best because the "evidence" simply redirects to blog posts and nothing of substance. Also it lists the worth of the company as $25 mill, not that of North. But lets take your word for it, SEP chairman David North is a multi-millionare capitalist.

Does that refute the analysis that the WSWS gives about the capitalist system? Does it refute the valuable work that the SEP is doing right now in helping workers form rank and file committees and link internationally? The perspective of the party is correct. Its correct in Defending Julian Assange and organizing rallies in his defense: twitter.com/TheLexMagazine/status/1094953965291094017
Its correct in reporting strikes that no one else is even bothering to mention, and it is correct in attempting to organize the working class against identity politics, postmodernism, and the capitalist system.

Brody Bennett
Brody Bennett

tortoskyism is just M-L without the cringe though

Sebastian Young
Sebastian Young

Read the blog post yourself. All the evidence about North is compiled there: "David W. Green" is sole proprietor of a $25 million dollar company according to public financial records, and David North is the pen name of Green according to the alumni magazine of his alma mater. All this is also corroborated by his former comrades. You'd think if this was all false then North would have disproved it by now but he hasn't.

Camden Clark
Camden Clark

You seem to appear in every thread about the SEP with virtually the same post and the same accusations.

the ICFI's main defining feature is utter sectarianism directed towards other Trotskyist groups
Sectarianism is typical of almost every Trotskyist group; "utter" is meaningless as a modifier, except as a way to reiterate contempt. The ICFI isn't special in its sectarianism, and, disregarding the CIA/KGB explanations, many other Trotskyist groups do support things like imperialist interventions in Syria, Libya and so on. There are real differences between the ICFI and other groups, beyond mere sectarian in-fighting for its own sake.

It's a tiny party that's got zero chance of ever building itself up to the level of the original US SWP,
I don't disagree, but virtually no party has revolutionary potential in the US in the current environment; you might as well ask why Marxists even exist in the US.

Regardless, I think the SEP does good work with the WSWS. It's one of the few socialist sites to oppose identitarianism, and its art review section is also generally not bad.

Colton Young
Colton Young

If it was true, North would get sued because using party funds for self enrichment is illegal and the SEP would be dissolved. The reason no "defense" is offered is because outside of some online forums, this isn't an issue that's brought up by the rank and file.

Benjamin Hernandez
Benjamin Hernandez

using party funds for self enrichment is illegal
The accusation is the other way around: North is using his funds to enrich the party. And because the party and its full-timers would collapse without North's continued financial support, they don't dare oppose him in "unanimous" vote after unanimous vote.

North's status as a millionaire is brought up in just about every outside discussion of the SEP, it's obviously damaging their recruitment. He can't disprove the allegations so he keeps it hush-hush.

Gavin Martinez
Gavin Martinez

Trots are just ML but with even more cringe.
Not counting posadism

Tyler Torres
Tyler Torres

As of January, 2013, Grand River Printing & Imaging was acquired by American Litho, Inc. Grand River Printing & Imaging manufactures and markets commercial and corporate printed products. The company’s products include annual reports and catalogs, magazines and newspapers, advertising inserts, and direct mail items
bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=37826532

Looks like that business doesn't even exist anymore. The unanimous votes could also be that the party members genuinely agree on their tactics and decisions as a tenet of democratic centralism is having disagreements worked out through rigorous debate. Regardless of whether he's a millionare or not, you still haven't answered why it makes a difference about the positive impact the SEP and ICFI have had:

"Does that refute the analysis that the WSWS gives about the capitalist system? Does it refute the valuable work that the SEP is doing right now in helping workers form rank and file committees and link internationally? The perspective of the party is correct. Its correct in Defending Julian Assange and organizing rallies in his defense: twitter.com/TheLexMagazine/status/1094953965291094017

Its correct in reporting strikes that no one else is even bothering to mention, and it is correct in attempting to organize the working class against identity politics, postmodernism, and the capitalist system."

Since I've invested this much time into this discussion, what do you disagree with the SEP on? What political positions do they get wrong in your opinion?

Carson Lee
Carson Lee

Looks like that business doesn't even exist anymore.
He sold it. That doesn't mean he isn't still rich.

I'm too tired to write up something comprehensive so here's some bullet points on what the SEP does wrong:

*Criticism of the party is apparently invalid because the party does stuff
*Hates existing unions so much as to support Janus / Right to Work laws
*Defends sex predators, not just "it's just about due process" but even after they're convicted (Polanski)
*Proudly announces "unanimous" votes. Why on earth would you be proud of that.
*Ridiculous crisis mongering, like the current claim that a military dictatorship is about to take over the USA
*Conspiratorial worldview. Everything and everyone outside the SEP are working on behalf of the ruling class, there is no concept of nuance. The rise of Trump and protectionism are just a controlled conspiracy by the ruling class to "push nationalism on the workers". Have you read FT / Foreign Affairs, porky is flipping out over right wing populism. Bernie Sanders and AOC were clearly chosen by a smoke filled Bilderberg meeting to divert working class militancy away from genuine socialism. Even other socialist groups are accused of being agents of capital - sometimes literally.

So yeah, that's my beef with the SEP. Politically I agree with most of Leon Trotsky's analysis, especially the theory of permanent revolution / combined and uneven development, but I'm spooked by vanguardism and "democratic centralism". Been reading a bunch of CouncilCom theory lately.

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Joseph Roberts
Joseph Roberts

And, in spite of all that, the SEP is the party that comes the closest to getting it right in the US. I say this as someone who has a disdain for Trotsky and Trotskyism in general. Out of the parties calling themselves communist—they seem like the only ones to me that goes beyond being a glorified book-club with a handful of LARPers

Nolan Ramirez
Nolan Ramirez

Prolly the closest thing to it in turn of the 18th century Britain. Some Russian who posted here said that the Bolsheviks ran some small enterprises to fund their operations. I haven’t been able to confirm but what do you guys think?

Elijah Harris
Elijah Harris

*Hates existing unions so much as to support Janus / Right to Work laws
I linked to the actual article about Janus in one of the last threads you appeared on, and the article was ambivalent, not supportive.

*Defends sex predators, not just "it's just about due process" but even after they're convicted (Polanski)
The Polanski case is more about the agreed-upon deal being vacated by a judge, I'm fairly sure, not about the conviction itself.

*Ridiculous crisis mongering, like the current claim that a military dictatorship is about to take over the USA
My own impression from those articles was more they were warning that the bourgeoisie and their hangers-on were warming up to the idea of a military putsch of Trump, not that it was imminent.

I think you used to use a talking point about their fears over nuclear weapons, didn't you? It'd look rather foolish in light of the withdrawal of the US from the INF Treaty.

Conspiratorial worldview.
I don't find it any more "conspiratorial" than most Marxists. They do avoid actual conspiracies, and the articles against AOC and Sanders have been more against them as false socialists, which they frankly are. In explaining AOC, for example:
There are two factors behind Ocasio-Cortez’s sudden rise to political prominence. Among broader sections of the population, she has attracted support as a result of her association with socialism. The two most popular figures in the Democratic Party, Senator Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez, nominally claim to be socialists. Under conditions in which the population is fed an unrelenting diet of right-wing and reactionary politics, anyone who speaks about issues of social inequality can quickly get widespread support.
The second and more decisive factor is the conscious promotion and elevation of Ocasio-Cortez by the Democratic Party and the media. Ocasio-Cortez performs a critical political function—that of providing a left cover for a right-wing party, the better to block the development of a genuine movement against social inequality and capitalism.
The first is no conspiracy. The second is more arguable in its reasoning as to why, but it isn't a conspiracy to say that AOC has been consciously promoted by the Democratic Party and media. In a typical conspiracy, both the actors and the intentions behind the event are in dispute, not merely the intentions.

Benjamin Harris
Benjamin Harris

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Owen Powell
Owen Powell

it's another "14yo pretends he's the only person who's ever read HGTTG" post

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