HOW COULD SHE DO THIS TO US Zig Forums?
Given her based and redpilled comments about AIPAC and Obama I assumed she was /ourgirl/ but now she comes out with this? Supporting CIA-backed "rebels" aimed at overthrowing a progressive Arab government (as well as Palestine's only remaining Arab ally)?
Does anyone have an explanation? I'm LITERALLY crying.
Socdem
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting
serves you right
She is being forced into it.
Wait and she'll blink in morse code soon.
this.
never trust an amerikkkan.
This.
Most Sunni Muslims are anti-Assad because they believe the #SUNNIGENOCIDE maymay.
Ask Ilhan what she thinks of the K*rds.
Who is forcing her to call for intervention in Syria? It's not like she's owned by AIPAC like the rest of them.
Sunni IdPol seems to be the driving force for her politics even though she pretends to be an American liberal. There is no reason for her to cause a shitstorm with her Israel takes only to then capitulate with Syria. She's either principled against imperialism or just gets upset when it's against her tribe.
That being said, I don't think she's unsalvagable. Whenever I see her talking she seems to be young and confused more than anything, of she's exposed to some material she could be radicalized because I just don't see her making a political career either, considering the hijab is basically a repellent for that in America.
Yes it is okay to support the sovereignty of a nation that is about to be swallowed by the empire. You think putting America in charge of Syria is going to improve their situation? You think that's going to bring syria closer to communism?
She is a sunni muslim, what do you expect from her? supporting Assad?
More than 90% of muslim diaspora(especially in USA) are anti-assad and under influence of "moderate" islamist propaganda.
She probably thinks assad personally strangle and gas sunni children everyday.
No, read Marx.
Oh wow you rekt me hardcore man. I actually died IRL.
There are around 150 right wing capitalist countries that are loyal to the empire, yet you radlibs hyperfocus on the handful of countries that aren't. It's almost like you're useful idiots for someone. Hmmmm.
Not in her district.
burgers gonna burger
succdems gonna succ
No democrat is /our guy/
When will you people learn?
Too many kekeroos for me today.
Propaganda works user, even if you're "woke".
Will defending Ilhan Omar from charges of anti-semitism be imperialism and bannable from now on?
This bitch is so weak she gave in to the Zionists within seconds flat
OR she's just uninformed on Syria and has bought into Western propaganda. It's entirely possible that she actually believes the bullshit about snipers killing protesters, use of chemical weapons, muh moderate rebels, ect. A LOT of dumb burger leftists are like that, in case you haven't noticed. Whenever there is a gap in their knowledge they just fill it with imperialist lies. It's sad, really.
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U wot she doubled down?
All shitposting is ironic. Now whether it's good or not is another story, and this one is pretty godawful.
haha yes, leftism was never stronger than in the 80s when the anglosphere was completely dominated by rightists
Surely that had nothing to do with the fact that the labor unions were all crippled and the fucking USSR collapsed. No, it must be because not enough leftists voted.
Got any source for that 90% stat?
She has bowed to jewish money
Idk why she would say this shit but given that the war is practically over and Assad won I'd say its not very relevant now. I'd still vote for her provided she took anti imperialist stances on other, more pressing conflicts like Venezuela. I'm not a burger though.
Have you guys considered that maybe she's just a normal imperialist politician?
They probably beat her with a rubber hose and waterboarded her until she said that. We can't know for certain.
No one who breaks with their party to criticize AIPAC or Israel can be considered a normal imperialist politician.
AIPAC is a major source of American imperialism which she successfully called out.
It's half truth. Syria is a majority Sunni country and Assad is a Shiia minority regime ruling over them. It's similar in some ways to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, but the other way around. There are millions of normal Syrian's who view this as a tyrannical state of affairs and, swept up in the Arab Spring ideas, genuinely believed in a revolution/overthrow of this order. It's reasonable to agree that those people had a point and are/were not villains. The problem is the US weaponized the Arab Spring after Egypt and Tunisia, for its own imperial regime change interests, turned Syria into a proxy war against Russia and Iran, and armed barbaric nuts like ISIS and Al Qeada to do the dirty work. None of these people have any interest in "a more just and free government" in Syria, and if Assad falls it will be these villains that take over, not "the people of Syria".
Omar is holding onto an outdated and romanticized narrative about the beginnings of the Syrian uprisings that has nothing to do with the reality anymore, and hasn't for years.
She is an abnormal imperialist politician. She is trying to misdirect anti-imperialist rhetoric and absolve the USA of its crimes. It's Israel that's controlling US politicans and making them commit genocide… The tail wags the dog!
It isn't just voting though. In the US if you are a leftist voting in most places will either choices you have to vote for represent you in any meaningful way? Even if she says some stupid shit about Syria being able to vote for someone like Ilhan Omar where I'm from would be a massive upgrade over the option I was given last time around. The normal Democrat vs.Republican races most of us have the chance to vote in are corrupt scumbag vs. comic book villain. They're both garbage, they're both terrible human beings, it's just one is so over the top evil it seems to the uninitiated like there's a massive difference.
Some more thoughts before I vacate this thread. I'm not under the delusion that electoral politics are going to bring about the revolution. I think electing candidates that are further to the left than normal could help normalize leftism in the US though. We've been brainwashed since birth into rejecting it. The shit we learn in school, what we hear from the TV, what our parents told us… A few dorks on an image board giving a list of books to read as homework isn't going to do nearly as much to undo this as someone like Ilhan Omar being given a national platform.
Even if politicians are mostly on our side we should not ignore when they say shitty things. We should definitely criticize them. They're not above it. Just the same as when you see a poster here saying something stupid and critique it. But cancel culture, you know, OMG this celeb said x or did x now they're cancelled!!! That shit isn't going to fly. Nobody is infallible. I'm sure if you were in her position you could probably find a way to earn the ire of your fellow posters here too. Critique is healthy and it can help educate others not to make the same mistakes. But finding things to critique about a person doesn't make them or their overall body of work entirely worthless. Crab mentality isn't going to win over hearts and minds for communism. It's just going to make us look like what we already are. A bunch of nerds making cliques to do e-battle.
I understand why you wouldn't care about voting for generic empty suit democrat but some people here will act snobby even about Bernie/Corbyn/AOC/Ilhan which is just stupid. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I mean he's still better than the alternative but that bar is so low you could trip over it
You guys seem to think that Ilhan Omar is a deeply flawed ally. Of course, there are people who could be allies and also have some reactionary views. Ilhan Omar is not one such person. Ilhan Omar is an enemy.
How do I know Ilhan Omar is an enemy? She's in the United States Congress as a member of the Democratic Party. If Ilhan Omar were an ally of the working class, the Democratic Party never would have run her in the first place. If she decided to then run as an independent, the ruling class would have sabotaged her campaign at every turn. In the election, there would be electoral fraud that prevented her from receiving enough votes to win.
But let's say she gets into Congress anyway. Maybe she's simply hiding her radicalism to win the election, or maybe she has a sincere change of heart and becomes a communist overnight. If this were the case, as soon as Ilhan Omar's true political views were revealed, she would be expelled from the Democratic Party. The attacks on the now-partyless Congresswoman would go far beyond the blowback she received for her AIPAC comments; every other member of Congress would denounce her fully. She would be smeared by every major media outlet. The ruling class would manufacture a scandal around her; perhaps they would falsely accuse her of corruption, as the bourgeoisie in Brazil did to Lula. They would find the strongest candidate they could to run against her in the next election, and spend all the resources necessary to get that candidate elected. If she somehow got through all of that and held to her views, they would simply assassinate her. Does that seem farfetched? They assassinated JFK, a committed bourgeois imperialist, simply because he wanted to lessen the imperialist assault on Vietnam. Imagine what they'd do to an actual radical.
No, if someone is a member of a bourgeois legislature as a member of a bourgeois party, it's safe to say that that person fully represents the bourgeoisie.
The Democratic party is already seeking to primary her. They may have second thoughts now given recent events but they do see her as an enemy at this point. They want her replaced.
No, I think he's a useful tool against Israeli apartheid.
But, like said, it sure does SEEM like the ruling class is turning on her.
It brings me great joy to watch it backfire on them.
This. There's a reason why Omar, AOC, and Bernie are the future of the Democrats.
Probability not. They will more likely go full succdem / Muslim extremist and turn people away
The Dems are moving Socdem. That's my point.
That would be a sad day for the working class
It wouldn't be nearly as sad as every day that came before it though.
Succdem isn't good for the working class
It is still an improvement over what we have now.
No it is worse as succdems kill revolutionary potential
There's no revolutionary potential in US electoral politics with or without them. I'd argue there's less in the US overall without them because under normal circumstances leftist politics are a non starter in the US. Myself I've gone from being a liberal to thinking holy shit Bernie needs to be the president of the US to starting to explore and thinking gee maybe communism isn't as bad as I've been brainwashed into thinking my whole life. I know I'm not the only person experiencing this. I can see it from your perspective too though. Getting a bunch of socdems elected and people thinking nothing more is left to be done wouldn't be great either.
This is something a lot of MLs say, but I don't think it's even true. The last succdem to be elected in the US was LBJ in fucking 1964. Since then it's just been neoliberals and neocons trading power back and forth. Notably, unions and socialist orgs and protest movements were MUCH stronger back in the 60s, and have gotten weaker every decade since then under neoliberal/neocon rule. Seems to me that, actually, succdems don't kill revolutionary potential. You're applying a specific historical lesson too broadly.
There isn't revolutionary potential because the material conditions are not right for revolution. Paying off the poor not to revolt by distributing the plunders of the third world only moves us further from revolution
In the US socdem and neoliberal are just semantics there have been socdem policies since FDR and unions were much stronger before socdem here and in European
Accelerationism isn't any better. How much of the poor are willing to accept Donald Trump and would even fight you on his behalf? In my case the answer is most of my neighbors. Bernie getting on TV and telling billionaires they can suck his dick does a whole lot more to ferment revolution than the miserable hell we live in now does.
Nothing i said was accelerationism
Opposing succdems is not accelerationism
What? I don't see the relevancy here.
Ok well Bernie hasn't done anything to "ferment" revolution and if his followers are anything like him theyll cower like he did to BLM
Also he didnt tell billionaires to suck his dick. He made a lot of free stuff promises than peoceeds tovtell people to vote for Hilary.
However rather than playing whos your favorite capitalist you can look at the historical tendency of socdem countries. They are the least likely to peoduce revolution
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It is when the other options are Clinton types or Donald Fucking Trump. Do you have a viable plan to have something other than socdems get elected to office in the US? Or better yet a viable plan for actual revolution because I'm all fucking ears for that at this point.
Where do you live? If you'd like I can invite you to where I'm from someday. Let's pretend we're canvasing for the Democrat Cops of America on behalf of medicare for all. Don't worry, I'll have a concealed weapon on me.
He did the right thing there. He had a paid off performance artist troupe led by someone who had prior experience doing work for the Republican party trying to use weaponized idpol against him and dodged that shit like it was nothing. Why do you think nobody talks about that anymore besides some Zig Forumsfags saying "kek what a cuck." He treated them "respectfully" and "civilly" rather than coming off looking like an authoritarian freak like most would. This is despite being an old jewish man with a well known reputation for being a cranky bastard I might add.
There are a lot of the free stuff promises and he did tell people to vote for Hillary, yes. But he also did come out and publicly trash billionaires on a national platform on many occasions. That was the first time I was ever really exposed to such language and I looked more into it because of him. It's because of Bernie that I'm now to the left of Bernie. I was actually excited about Clinton running and when I heard he was opposing her I was like "who the fuck is that and why is he even bothering when she's just going to win?"
Anyway if there was a successful revolution in the US tomorrow I don't think it would be what either of us are hoping for. There's a lot of work to be done and I'm 100% serious when I tell you that you're going to have a much easier time radicalizing people that think Bernie and AOC are good than people who think Trump has secret indictments against all the Dem pedophiles.
Union decline began in the US after Nixon replaced LBJ, who as I said was America's last succdem. Since then, the main project of neoliberals and neocons has been to erode the succdem policies: cut social benefits, privatize public assets, end social programs, deregulate industries, and of course cut taxes. We've had 50 fucking years of this, and they have been quite successful in gutting everything but the most basic programs (and those are on the chopping block next). Yet, rather than America's revolutionary potential grow, during this time labor has only gotten WEAKER. This is utterly contrary to your claims.
Why isn't anything getting better? Why is everything always getting worse, year after year, despite never election succdems?
There is not much of a difference between the Clintons and Donald Trump however. Also fetishizing his presidency as the worst thing that could happen is pure liberalism.
Where do you live? If you'd like I can invite you to where I'm from someday. Let's pretend we're canvasing for the Democrat Cops of America on behalf of medicare for all. Don't worry, I'll have a concealed weapon on me.
Im from the US but i don't see what you're on about here.
He's a laughing stock
What?
Because the election is over. No one cares too much for blm.
And there really wasn't much more than Bernie being a cowardly old man
>He treated them "respectfully" and "civilly" rather than coming off looking like an authoritarian freak like most would. This is despite being an old jewish man with a well known reputation for being a cranky bastard I might add.
Alright Bernie is a weak old man moving on…
And Donald Trump did the same thing to billions he doesn't like there's nothing special about that.
Ok so you first became a liberal in like last month. You really need to read more Marxist theory. because right now you're just a liberal with a red fetish
What? I was never talking about propagandizing to select demographic I have been talking about material conditions needed for revolution and how Social Democracy kills that.
Union membership declined after WW2
It's sharpest decline began in the 1970s
This is the definition of moving the goal post. Thanks for proving my point
What point? All you did was correct me on semantics.
But yeah, sure, you're technically correct. Let me clarify what I meant. When I spoke of "union decline" I meant it in terms of the catastrophic collapse that occurred in the 70s. The slight membership decline after WWII is NOT AT ALL the same as what occurred after Nixon.
And my overall point stands. The collapse happened AFTER the succdems were already out of power, and succdems have been out of power for 50 fucking years and unions are worse off than ever. How can you blame succdems for this, when very clearly this is the work of neolibs and neocons?
No i corrected your whole statement
It was already heading that way
What is exponential curve
No it doesnt
Why are you fetishizing unions now?
This guy sucks ass.
After i proved him wrong i asked why hes fetishizing unions.
What's so wrong?
No, you corrected one portion of my comment on the semantics and then ignored the rest of it.
You can't prove that. Looks like union membership was only declining slightly at a flat rate, and then went exponential and dropped off a cliff
Uh huh, and WHY did the curve become exponential? Could SOMETHING have happened in the 1970s-Now to cause that?
jesus fuck you don't want succdems, you don't want unions, what the fuck do you want? instantaneous mass revolt from nothing?
I think he's of the belief that mass revolt can only come from horrific poverty and third world conditions.
No you were just wrong about your union statement
It was declining and not revolutionary anymore you can see the lack of appeal or usefulness
See above
Social democracy isn't even leftist its capitalism and pretty bad for the working class honestly so its obvious why Communist would object to it.
Its not that i don't want unions but if they're going to bargain with capital rather than fight against it they are useless in the fight against capital.
She's called out AIPAC for its control of American foreign policy. How is she a "false flag?"
I'm waiting for AOC (I'm in love with her and it is frustrating) to say some shit that is worse and more imperialistic.
How can you fucking shit-dunk on Elliot Abrams, then buy into the Nicaragua meme…
If you look at the graph mate it's pretty stable from 1945-1970.
i thought we went over this already, she is pure media product for election, has no legitimacy in her own community, no ideology, and basically agree with everything that might further her career. shes the token muslim at best, a snake to crush at worst
are you a poltard or what. theres more to politics than israel
Part of the problem is while America has plenty of isolationists and anti-interventionists there aren't any anti-imperialists. They are not opposing the US military on they same grounds as us so they are going support the US at points when we wouldn't. Usally they only are against the "bad" interventions because they are only opposed to it on vague moral grounds rather than on concrete ideological ones
next thing we're going to get ITT will be the "If you don't support North Korea you're an imperialist!" ☭TANKIE☭ shitposts.
Fuck Assad and fuck Russia. Every single civil war since 1848 where the government lost against an uprising was a good thing.
Good. fuck reactionary Russian shill shitheads
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Holy fuck, that can't be real can it?
Sauce?
Not defending Ilhan or anything but the left (especially the fucking socdem "left") needs to accept that this is what electoralism in the US gets you. If she doesn't spout US foreign polciy talking points Pelosi can get her kicked off of committees and shit. It's why you shouldn't put all your energy into electing candidates for any party, especially corporate ones like the dems and the GOP. Amerifats desperately need a movement, not more false messiahs. Yet the Democrat Cops of America is just about to go all in for Bernie fucking Sanders and ruin all the momentum they have built for themselves. Also fuck Ilhan for her imperialist pandering.
Oh do you mean isis, al qaeda, us army and mercenaries.
cum town is right. Ilhan Omar confirmed for isis
AIPAC has America by the balls. What other reason does America have for prioritizing Israel above all other foreign relations?
What is going on with Nicaragua?
There some pension protests, then a load of students from Miami started brigading and stirring shit.
You completely misunderstand what AIPAC is lobbying for and who it serves. It's not lobbying for Israel or Israelis - it doesn't give a shit about Israelis in fact. It's lobbying for American imperialism in Israel and ensuring smooth function within the empire. It is a group that exists to help the empire manage its relationship with Israel, to facilitate the to help America better utilize Israel as a client state.
And Israel isn't really prioritized above other client states. Compare how we treat Israel to how we treat Turkey or Saudi Arabia and you'll find it's not really that different. Israel just gets priority because it's a white settler colony. But if Israel tries to defy the empire in a way that actually MATTERS, like when it tried to buy weapons from China, it gets shut down.
Why should anyone support capitalistic Russia and its puppets? Its just another imperialistic power just a weaker one.
Religious nationalism and nothing else.
You don't have to be some blind Assad worshiper to realize her take is a distinctly anti-socialist one. Why glorify the revolt in Syria when it has only lead to fundies taking over half the country and countless death and destruction with no real gain to show for it?
The answer: she laments the government's success and wants US-backed fundies to rule Syria. Fuck off, FBI.
Charitably, she COULD be an idealist that believes revolts are inherently good regardless of their intent or results… but I doubt she's an anarkiddie so
Any country that openly collaborates with the US must be punished. Israel is a special case since it must not be merely "punished" but outright annihilated.