So, is idpol good or bad? The left is pretty divided on this issue so I thought...

Blake Mitchell
Blake Mitchell

So, is idpol good or bad? The left is pretty divided on this issue so I thought I'd ask you lot.

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Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1083956746220195840
opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/mark-fisher/exiting-vampire-castle/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_people).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm

Jayden Collins
Jayden Collins

Bad. Divides workers against each other and focuses on petty bullshit instead of the root of racism and sexism.

Evan Davis
Evan Davis

Identity is retarded. It separates people based on arbitrary shit instead of actual interests in real matters.

Asher Rivera
Asher Rivera

Asking leftypol if idpol is good or bad
Asking the board that was more or less initially founded on it's rejection of idpol due to being driven out of other leftist spaces for doing so
Do other places not complain about us anymore?

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Aaron Brown
Aaron Brown

The left is pretty divided on this issue so I thought I'd ask you lot.
No, it's not. Those who promote idpol aren't left-wing by definition.

Gabriel Jones
Gabriel Jones

left wing settler colonists are threatened by revolutionary postcolonial liberation narratives because they directly threaten their interests

Imagine my shock

Nathan Scott
Nathan Scott

IdPol is basically a buzzword at this point, you need to be more specific to get any kind of decent response. Zig Forums has a ridiculously inconsistent definition of IdPol once you get past the "idpol bad" line, no one agrees on what it means and it's used more often than not just to signal general annoyance with western left-liberal speech policing and insufferableness which is fine and good but then depending on who you ask that can mean anything from "i shouldnt be gate-kept from socialism because im white wtf" (obviously true and an example of a disgusting excess of liberal infected western leftism) to "black people are culturally reactionary and their music should be banned, gay people are mentally ill and too weak to fight in the revolution" (literally just reactionary IdPol but somehow more acceptable than liberal IdPol around here)

Mason Wright
Mason Wright

Identity gives you personhood and is actually pretty important for people, largely. We should by all means use people's identity to help them come together to recognize what we have in common while also allaying the ever present worry about "the other group". The bigger the identity group that we can get people to identify with, the better.

However, the politics of oppression that surround it are a serious mistake that confuses the vector of oppression with the source of the oppression. This is "identity politics" which is literally designed to make people stop thinking about how oppression actually works and instead just focus how make person feel bad.

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Owen Jones
Owen Jones

Even liberals are starting to realize idpol is a bad idea: twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1083956746220195840
Read Exiting the Vampire Castle by Mark Fisher: opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/mark-fisher/exiting-vampire-castle/

Kayden Lopez
Kayden Lopez

Maoist spewing postcolonial voo doo horseshit
Imagine MY shock

Kayden Long
Kayden Long

a serious mistake that confuses the vector of oppression with the source of the oppression
But many identities are fictional and prescribed as means of attack, for example /pol/ calling everyone they don't like a "jew". Being a "jew" in the sense of religion or cultural heritage is vastly different than /pol/'s "jew" of white skinned person who isn't "white" and wants to destroy "whites".

Caleb Brooks
Caleb Brooks

literally all politics is identity politics

there is no white proletariat read settlers by j Sakai Ra.ce war now bye bye boons to society

James Reed
James Reed

oh he mad
I must have struck a nerve

Jayden Roberts
Jayden Roberts

liberals only started disliking identity politics when wypipo started playing it

we're literally gonna send all of you to the zoo, be prepared

Joseph James
Joseph James

Hail Hitler

here is your zoo master and lion tamer you're all going to the zoo

Aaron Jenkins
Aaron Jenkins

FUCK baboon

And fuck will smith

Carson Cruz
Carson Cruz

Your sporadic incel terror is the last gasp of reactionary boomer politics. Your relevance in the world is declining proportionally to every dead boomer

Lucas Rogers
Lucas Rogers

<Only white boomers refuse to prostate themselves before people of the brown color
oh how incorrect you are

Leo Bailey
Leo Bailey

You're such big pussies. You live in total affluence inundated with entertainment and pleasure that Roman emperors didn't experience you have never experienced war or poverty and then glorious uprising and go full ISIS mode at the mere thought that minorities get a slice of that pie

Juan Rodriguez
Juan Rodriguez

indeed we don't want to live among you apes

back to the jungles Mutumbo

bye bye

Jonathan Jones
Jonathan Jones

Back to mommy's basement incel

Levi Perez
Levi Perez

fuck off there is no white proletariat

Race war is cumming

Jayden Watson
Jayden Watson

Can't wait to see your white unity collapse when Russian refugees flood the world after that fuckup of a country finally descends into a civil war

Ayden Jones
Ayden Jones

You should hope the mods ban you before your retarded threats are reported

Josiah Torres
Josiah Torres

The bigger the identity group that we can get people to identify with, the better.
The biggest "identity group" is being part of the working class because the vast majority of the population has to sell their labour to pay the bills. End of the story.
I don't give a fuck if your tampons are being taxed 5% like toilet paper instead of 0%. I don't give a fuck if the hormonal pills for your feminine penis are hard to get. I'm just tired of everything being so fucking expensive, and everything else that doesn't harm my neighbor being illegal for stupid puritanical reasons, and you should be too.
I don't want to stress about how I'm going to pay my food, rent and rates this month, and wonder if I will have enough money left to drink a few beers with my mates during the weekend, just like you. I'm tired of being hassled to get/work at a boring useless job to pay the bills, just like you.
We all have to face this shit. I don't give a shit about upper-middle class Asian Muslim trans struggles, because I'm not part of that crowd. I'm just a guy who has to partake in wageslavery in order to earn the right to live, and I think we should all have better working conditions, that's it. Who cares about the specifics? Don't most women, blacks, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Asians, Hispanics, Maghrebis, Africans, Inuits, Palestinians and trans people have to work too?

Isaac Barnes
Isaac Barnes

It's retarded

Jackson Brooks
Jackson Brooks

Seeing a nazi and a maoist fighting is like seeing two retarded iguanas trying to get the last piece of carrot

Jace Williams
Jace Williams

i agree with him but he is too dumb to realize

Jayden Ross
Jayden Ross

Identify are pretty much the literal definition of spooks. They are only things we can each other. Man, woman, white, black, gay, straight are only words. People need to stop with the idpol nonsense and start believing in individualism.

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Carson Parker
Carson Parker

idpol is bad it gives more attention to identity and less attention to the worker's struggle

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Isaiah Evans
Isaiah Evans

Identity politics is shit on unanimously here.

I'm pretty confident that OP is just bait

Benjamin Murphy
Benjamin Murphy

The real ascencion is realizing that all identities are fictional and that we must yet continue to lead fictional lives and revel in the absurdity.
Did you read the rest of my post?
I don't give a fuck if your tampons are being taxed 5% like toilet paper instead of 0%
A vector for capitalism to attack people through.
I don't give a fuck if the hormonal pills for your feminine penis are hard to get
A vector that capitalism acts through.
Don't most women, blacks, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Asians, Hispanics, Maghrebis, Africans, Inuits, Palestinians and trans people have to work too?
I already answered that.

Andrew Harris
Andrew Harris

transgenders
retarded schizophrenic faggots who should get gulag'd, possibly a product of cappie media consumerism and alienation
might be a last attempt to de radicalize the left
faggots/dykes
scissoring and sucking dick isn't an identity
might be a last attempt to de radicalize the left
race
better not be used but it is a necessity to unify and fight under the flag of race if you are oppressed because of it
nationality
yes if it is for unification, nationalization, fighting for peoples right, anti imperialism, etc no if it is for starting a war because some guys did bad things 1000 years ago
woman/man
women shouldn't be excluded because the enemy can use them and women are a very important element of society but the current feminism and ""woman rights"" is just some first world problem shit that ultimately serves the interest of porky.

Kevin Jackson
Kevin Jackson

Socialism can only happen in a traditionalist ethnostate; it is necessary to purge Jews and homos from your homeland before any real proletariat democracy can be established

Jayden Murphy
Jayden Murphy

Nazbol thread?

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Chase Nguyen
Chase Nguyen

socialism is not when people are nice to each other and you are a sociopath and an autist if you think people can only get along if they are of the same ethnic group.

also that would be some real tough shit to implement with all of the creaturas in burgerville.

Jose Sanders
Jose Sanders

that pic
tfw you will never live in an alternate timeline where Trump is indeed Nazbol
you will never march on Washington
you will never execute congressmen under the orders of Supreme Leader Trump
you will never march on Wall Street
you will never see Supreme leader Trump order the nationalization of all business
you will never force Conscription upon America and create a hundred million man army
you will never take part in the continental wars of unification
you will never live in a Pan-American superstate
you will never fly a F-35 in the ==SUPREME== Air Force
Why Live?

Camden Murphy
Camden Murphy

i will always be gay
nice

Angel Cox
Angel Cox

Sorry, but I wanted to rant, and your distinction between "vectors" and "sources of oppression" isn't that clear. I mostly agree with you, even though the
We should by all means use people's identity to help them come together to recognize what we have in common while also allaying the ever present worry about "the other group"
have its limits.
I agree in principles and try to do this when I talk to leftists IRL, but in the end, people need to join the multicolored and multifaceted people who are angry at Capital for messing with their lives equally, instead of nodding after you acknowledged their little own individual struggles and go back to complain about how X subset of workers is more oppressed than Y subset of workers, because that's what happens a lot of times in practice.
Most of the (white) leftists I know who are into this idpol shit were the ones for whom it took 4 or 5 weeks to realize the Yellow Vests are a genuine proletarian movement. At first they were all like "oh, they are reactionaries" or "oh yeah, they should stop driving diesel cars, it's too polluting!", and then they realized old white boomers can be poor and angry too. Most of them are poor artsy-types or students who are eternally sad that brown people have difficulties paying their rents due to gentrification, just like them and boomers. It's getting ridiculous. Some are more exploited than others, but in the end we are all in the same shit. The era of idpol is over. /r/stupidpol will break into the mainstream and that's long overdue.

Asher Nelson
Asher Nelson

Idpol is for gay honky faggots.

Easton Martin
Easton Martin

Think it is pretty bad, it is used by porky to divide and conquer the workers.
That is both the more women/poc drone pilots lib-shtick and the white identity fags.

Leo Clark
Leo Clark

Why live

Joseph Perry
Joseph Perry

dentity gives you personhood and is actually pretty important for people, largely.
Identity =/= individuality. My preferences, skills, friends, etc are specific to me. They are mine. They don't have to put me into a box called identity.

Robert Hughes
Robert Hughes

The biggest "identity group" is being part of the working class
Class isn't an identity. It's a material relation. Getting people to "identify with" their class is silly. We should instead try to get people to drop identity altogether.

Ryder Roberts
Ryder Roberts

Class isn't an identity. It's a material relation.
Exactly.
Getting people to "identify with" their class is silly.
No, on the contrary, they should construct their identity around these very material conditions so we can get rid of all this special snowflake idpol shit.
We should instead try to get people to drop identity altogether.
The point of ancom user is that it is really hard to do, because being black or being a woman is a distinctive feature for most people, features they got at birth, and it defines them socially or whatever. But guess what, they are all fucking wageslaves just like you and I, so why not be angry against those who are making money on our backs together? They don't because most people aren't redpilled about economic determinism and universalism, sadly, so they lose themselves into disgusting Anglo liberal propaganda. It's all so tiresome.

Kayden Kelly
Kayden Kelly

2849622
Sure, that's fine.

When I say
We should by all means use people's identity to help them come together to recognize what we have in common while also allaying the ever present worry about "the other group"
I'm largely referring about the importance of making people recognize their shared humanity for the sake of developing beyond our current fractured identities of nations, races, ethnicities, etc. With nobody and nothing else except our species to seriously gauge against, it is difficult to see the huge number of similarities for the few differences separating us, and most of those differences are literally, totally, imaginary.

I don't disagree with your rant, I agree with it entirely, I'm just saying that we do need to be a bit more careful in our analysis if we're going to take an anti-idpol stance seriously.

I'm going to half agree to that. Identity isn't the same as individuality, and while most parts of individuality does also have a part to play in someone's identity, both are important in a person's life. You dont' always get to choose every aspect of your identity, and whether or not you want to be identified as such doesn't change the fact that you can be targeted for being part of that identity as someone else decides, which can have serious effects on your life.

Bentley Kelly
Bentley Kelly

2849759
geez man there's so many variables to this white supremacy thing, not only must you be white but if you are a gay or a socialist your blood instantly becomes tainted, it really sucks, they should fix that shit

Matthew Sanders
Matthew Sanders

2849759
White European blood
Finland

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Leo Russell
Leo Russell

Man, I really want to change this picture up a bit.

Brandon Lewis
Brandon Lewis

Class isn't an identity. It's a material relation.
Exactly.
Isn't idenity material relation? Isn't it true that black people are jailed more by the state, while a lot of research shows they don't commit crimes anymore than anyone else. Even if you don't believe that they get longer harsher sentences for the same crimes as other races.
Is this a material difference relative to other races, maybe not to the means of production, but say the market? Or at least the state itself, or the over all superstructure.

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Jack Cruz
Jack Cruz

Isn't idenity material relation?
Identity is delusional. It's a made up narrative you construct about yourself.

Isn't it true that black people are jailed more by the state, while a lot of research shows they don't commit crimes anymore than anyone else.
Except there isn't any material basis for that discrimination. It's based on the subjective perception of a person's characteristics usually in relation to the interpreter's own delusional fantasy about themselves.

Identity has no material basis.

Nicholas Edwards
Nicholas Edwards

Class is far more important than identity politics with the latter often used to mask the former. But still racism is bad, mkay.

Isn't identity material relation?
Hell the fuck no. Black people are generally poorer than whites (and asians) therefore suffer more prejudices.

Parker Thomas
Parker Thomas

Real proletariat democracy isn't possible under any sort of "state" whatsoever.

Easton Bell
Easton Bell

It's based on the subjective perception of a person's characteristics
Being able to determine something from ocular functions does not mean it's subjective.

Jace Rodriguez
Jace Rodriguez

Yeah, you're right, but that's not what is happening. If you look at someone and think that you can discern deep or meaningful truths about them based on their appearance alone you aren't just "determining something from ocular functions," you're subjectively interpreting the significance of superficial characteristics. That is subjective.

Thomas Brown
Thomas Brown

pretty much

Charles Anderson
Charles Anderson

Identity is delusional. It's a made up narrative you construct about yourself.
Can we keep in mind that identity is also something you make up about someone else? So many people in this thread seem to think the answer to identity politics is "bro just dont think you're things" while ignoring the fact that the vast majority of what identity politics focuses on is how other people are identifying you.

Various forms of identitarian attack absolutely exist. If you're gay, it doesn't matter whether or not you "identify" as a homosexual when someone who hates teh gay finds out you're at a gay bar. They're going to apply prejudices against you and act in that way. This is something that the majority of Zig Forums doesn't address in its critique of identity politics is that the reason they (theoretically) exist is because the right wing by and large already plays by the rules of identity politics and applies them to other people.

Our critique should not, can not simply rely on telling people "don't identify as stuff" because that is worse than useless, that is writing off sexism, racism, homophobia, etc and is going to actively push people away. We need to tell people that the best way to fight against people who are going to engage in attacking their identity isn't by playing their game but instead by taking away the power of those who can make identity politics happen.

Lucas Jackson
Lucas Jackson

while a lot of research shows they don't commit crimes anymore than anyone else.
Incorrect, blacks really do commit a lot more crime than whites and asians, especially violence and/or rape. Easy to google. Now WHY that is the case is another question entirely.

Carson Jones
Carson Jones

They get jailed more for weed than whites tho.

Adam Wood
Adam Wood

No you don't. You need to purge the bourg. Why do asserist-types always focus on ethnic cleansing and other cultural garbage when they are supposedly also leftists?

Joseph Cooper
Joseph Cooper

As long as we don't confuse identity and identity politics…

Brayden Sanchez
Brayden Sanchez

(check)
Posession, use, dealing…? Wouldn't be too surprising, though, criminal history and poverty correlate with blackness, unfortunately, so ceteris paribus the probability of dealing with a repeat offender or multiple crimes (usually violence-related) is higher. I wouldn't focus too much on that, though. On the specific juridical process, I mean.

Jayden Rogers
Jayden Rogers

I agree with him, though, and "cleansing" doesn't have to be cruel or violent. In the end it's a grave injustice, not to say politically inexpedient in the long term, to try to forcefully integrate what cannot - and oftentimes doesn't *want* to - be integrated.

Liam Martinez
Liam Martinez

That's fucking retarded, you can get rid of the rich without targeting just the jews for whatever retarded reason, you can also not give a shit about homosexuals.

Carter Hernandez
Carter Hernandez

cleansing doesn't have to be cruel or violent
I hate idpol because when ever it's brought up we start talking about this stupid shit.

Cooper Morris
Cooper Morris

First off, I don't agree that "rich" is necessarily a synonym of "capitalist". Second, the predominance of jews within the ranks of the global financial elite is a fact which cannot simply be handwaved away, especially from a Marxist point of view. Third, disdaining homosexuality (which carries great social and medical ills) is by no means a right-wing monopoly, as you should know from the SU.

Carter Reyes
Carter Reyes

I don't agree that "rich" is necessarily a synonym of "capitalist".
Then fuck off.
SU.
Steven Universe is pro gay tho

Jacob Diaz
Jacob Diaz

On the contrary. Peaceful segregation would be most beneficial for all parties involved, it is precisely the hallmark of imperialism to want to unite diverse peoples under one power center. Hence: (racial) integrationalism = imperialism.

Leo Green
Leo Green

Nice "arguments".

Julian Hughes
Julian Hughes

NazBols co-opting the anti-idpol position, what is the fix here anons?

Zachary Watson
Zachary Watson

No one would be under imperialism in a socialist country, no need to segregate anyone, they can leave if they want but "peacefully" segregating them makes no fucking sense.

Charles Fisher
Charles Fisher

How is integration imperialism? In Rwanda, the Belgians gave the native people identity cards to separate the different ethnic groups, this lead to the genocide. In South Africa, the white colonists had put the native Africans on separate land keeping then away from the whites. In the US, native americans were forced off their land to allow the spread if settlers. Notice these are all examples of imperialism and segregation.

Lucas Martin
Lucas Martin

No one would be under imperialism in a socialist country,
The axis capitalism-socialism is orthogonal to the question of imperialism. As soon as you have one power center imposing itself on disparate elements (nations, peoples, races) you have an imperium, by definition, which isn't even necessarily a bad thing.

no need to segregate anyone, they can leave if they want but "peacefully" segregating them makes no fucking sense
Why doesn't that make sense to you? Isn't peaceful segregation much preferable to violence?

Benjamin Cooper
Benjamin Cooper

which isn't even necessarily a bad thing.
no problem then

Asher Smith
Asher Smith

How is integration imperialism? In Rwanda, the Belgians gave the native people identity cards to separate the different ethnic groups, this lead to the genocide.
Incorrect. The Belgians were merely administratively documenting the status quo, or are you implying that Hutu and Tutsi sprang into existence with their arrival?

In South Africa, the white colonists had put the native Africans on separate land keeping then away from the whites.
First, there were almost no black natives in South Africa prior to the arrival of the British, due to geographical reasons - the bantus came later, attracted by news about the fertile lands to the south. Second, it's not about mere geographical, but POLITICAL segregation, i.e. every party having their own sovereign state. Interestingly, this solution was even tried one time (Bantustan).

In the US, native americans were forced off their land to allow the spread if settlers.
After centuries of cruel, bloody warfare from both sides. Or many sides, to be more precise, after all the "indians" were wsging wars between themselves for centuries. Still, the same as above applies: ghettoization != segregation.

Notice these are all examples of imperialism and segregation.
No, those were examples of ghettoization, i.e. the physical separation of constituents within the SAME political entity.

Lincoln Baker
Lincoln Baker

This thread is making me prefer idpol.

Tyler Rivera
Tyler Rivera

First, there were almost no black natives in South Africa prior to the arrival of the British, due to geographical reasons - the bantus came later, attracted by news about the fertile lands to the south
This is a pile of steaming bullshit to such a degree I don't even know where to begin.
No, those were examples of ghettoization, i.e. the physical separation of constituents within the SAME political entity.
The Bantustans were meant to be separate political entities.

Kevin Johnson
Kevin Johnson

Exposure to settler colonialist "leftism" will do that to you.

Daniel Sanders
Daniel Sanders

This is a pile of steaming bullshit to such a degree I don't even know where to begin.
It's indeed a mindfuck, or a "redpill", if you prefer. But it's absolutely true, just look it up - there were no large-scale black populations in SA before the British arrival.

The Bantustans were meant to be separate political entities.
Yes, unfortunately it didn't pan out. It would have been a much better way into the future than what SA is now, rapidly descending into ever more violence and poverty.

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson

It's indeed a mindfuck, or a "redpill", if you prefer. But it's absolutely true, just look it up - there were no large-scale black populations in SA before the British arrival.
The Zulu.

Dominic Parker
Dominic Parker

Their ancestors migrated to SA during the late 17th century, i.e. very recent (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_people). The only legitimate natives are the San, but they are an ethnic sui generis, nit related to blacks/bantus.

Levi Johnson
Levi Johnson

Another good article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion

Kevin Roberts
Kevin Roberts

Migrated in the 1600s
That's not counted as very recent, that predates the slavicification of Novorossiya for example. Stop trying to use it as some silver bullet that makes colonialism acceptable.

Josiah Russell
Josiah Russell

That's not counted as very recent, that predates the slavicification of Novorossiya for example.
Late 1600s is later than the arrival of the British, which was the original point.

Stop trying to use it as some silver bullet that makes colonialism acceptable.
Colonization != colonialism. Colonization is simply a fact of history, a natural human tendency.

William Carter
William Carter

There's no reason to prefer idpol just because 2/3rds of Zig Forums are literally retards.

Austin Cox
Austin Cox

The Khoikhoi have lived in the cape area 2000 years before the arrival of Europeans.

Jaxon Lewis
Jaxon Lewis

Late 1600s is later than the arrival of the British, which was the original point.
The Zulu Clan was founded in 1709 (the people that they came from had been there 100 years prior). British colonisation started in the 1820s. That's more than 200 years. They didn't "arrive because of the british".
Colonization != colonialism. Colonization is simply a fact of history, a natural human tendency.
Then why are you bringing it up then lad?

Levi Davis
Levi Davis

That's true, and regarding the (Khoi)San I correct my earlier statement, although they aren't black/bantu and did not play an important role for racial politics kn SA (largely due to their small numbers and them living on the fringes of the arid regions).

Samuel Fisher
Samuel Fisher

bad

Thomas Long
Thomas Long

They do, it's just less loud since we don't pose any real threat right now.
We're only good to complain about when they need scapegoat

Camden Hernandez
Camden Hernandez

British colonisation started in the 1820s.
Building on Dutch, i.e. obviously European, foundations laid from the early 1600s.

They didn't "arrive because of the british".
Bantu tribes like the Xhosa only learned of the existence of fertile lands south of the deserts after the arrival of white settlers. Pretty uncontroversial.

Then why are you bringing it up then lad?
It just spiralled from the original discussion which was about the question if racial integrationism is imperialist or not. I affirmed: wanting to integrate races is by definition and ipso facto imperialist. The other user (you?) denied that.

Christian Parker
Christian Parker

"cleansing" doesn't have to be cruel or violent
Literally impossible to do if the people in question do not want to leave.
>it is precisely the hallmark of imperialism to want to unite diverse peoples under one power center. Hence: (racial) integrationalism = imperialism.
First, that is not what imperialism is. Second, do you think the SU didn't have separate republics?
The axis capitalism-socialism is orthogonal to the question of imperialism. As soon as you have one power center imposing itself on disparate elements (nations, peoples, races) you have an imperium
This is not imperialism.
Still, the same as above applies: ghettoization != segregation.
No, but every example of segregation has led to ghettoization.

Also, your whole argument in this thread about ethnic violence is garbage. Ethnic violence is almost always a symptom of political and economic instability or is the byproduct of conflicts regarding economic resources. The Soviet Union was made up of varying ethnicities, cultures, and republics and experienced none of the wide spread violence you are talking about until it became economically unstable far later on.

Ethan Roberts
Ethan Roberts

I affirmed: wanting to integrate races is by definition and ipso facto imperialist.
That's not what imperialism is. Imperialism is something very specific.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm
If it were necessary to give the briefest possible definition of imperialism we should have to say that imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism. Such a definition would include what is most important, for, on the one hand, finance capital is the bank capital of a few very big monopolist banks, merged with the capital of the monopolist associations of industrialists; and, on the other hand, the division of the world is the transition from a colonial policy which has extended without hindrance to territories unseized by any capitalist power, to a colonial policy of monopolist possession of the territory of the world, which has been completely divided up.
But very brief definitions, although convenient, for they sum up the main points, are nevertheless inadequate, since we have to deduce from them some especially important features of the phenomenon that has to be defined. And so, without forgetting the conditional and relative value of all definitions in general, which can never embrace all the concatenations of a phenomenon in its full development, we must give a definition of imperialism that will include the following five of its basic features:
(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.

Landon Russell
Landon Russell

I don't share Marx' definition of imperialism. Regarding the other points, let's continue tomorrow, wagecuckery calls.

Parker Butler
Parker Butler

If you do not accept idpol, you will be overcome by those that do.

Charles Long
Charles Long

Good. Let's let this thread die.

Mason Rogers
Mason Rogers

kys sakaist porky

Benjamin Anderson
Benjamin Anderson

Hello, Black Red Guard.

Ryder Moore
Ryder Moore

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