Against idpol

Also I think the guy who made this video is a sort of Peterson liberal but this little documentary about Amy Schumer is a case study in how people weaponized and use idpol to move up in a socially liberal capitalist culture (not to say s.ocially conservative culture stops this from happening it just meant that the people doing this were fascists and conservatives rather than liberals and neoliberals and "progressives" read Blackshirts and Reds etc Hitler was a gay,soyboy etc) I highly recommend watching these vids, particularly the 2nd one to gain a good analyses of how pc culture and idpol is used by opportunists like Schumer to acquire more wealth and power it's pretty interesting despite discussing a topic most would think of as banal

youtu.be/hLol6THNWYQ
youtu.be/jolVzxxsar0

If you don't want to sit through it the tl;dr is that Amy Schumer started her career by playing the "I'm a moderately attractive girl who isn't scared to hang with the fellas and make offensive jokes" character for money to the "I'm a woke influenced who uses comedy to challenge power by making a virtue out of what a fat pathetic slob I am and how proud I am of it". The level of opportunism from someone like Schumer is actually kind of intriguing. At one point in the documentary she uses her extremely removed relation to Chuck Schumer, a neoliberal democrat, who she says herself she didn't even know was her distant uncle or whatever until people pointed it out to her, to get media attention by being a gun grabber.

This board needs to stop with the class idpol and the idpol which denies New Afrikan struggle against settlers

nooooo you don't understand idpol is good, trust me I have 10,000 followers on twitter

By now I'm about 99% sure this poster is a slightly more learned faslfagger from Zig Forums. New Afrikans fucking shit up and scaring the burgers in Yankland will be quality though. So if you're not a falsefag, Godspeed.

This is literally how value works and I am going to bring this up every time: value exists because things require efforts to acquire.

Every single person using the black power flag has been a Zig Forums falseflagger. Every single one. There is nobody else who ever uses that flag.

>See zizek for more on this youtu.be/1uNIID5R4pM

You gave the wrong link

Settlers have it coming after 400 years of oppression. Just wait

Go back to worshiping your anti-semitic Anarchist idols, settler. Surely no one would TRULY believe that Amerika as a Settler state needs decolonized and destroyed, that there is retribution due for the 400 years of oppression! You anti-idpol settlers are a joke, products of a privileged caste who would throw New Afrikans under the bus if you could get your precious ethnostate communist dreams. Right wing crypto-reactionaries get out

You need more practice.

The state of this board. Must I remind you that many of your idols are people like Bakunin and Proudhon? Do you endorse that? I’m sure you do, since any mentioning of the New Afrikan struggle or of any oppressed people is brushed aside as “muh idpol”

Ok, Heinrich

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this

theory about the system of oppressions and how they can overlap
I agree with this critique of intersectionality: libcom.org/library/i-am-woman-human-marxist-feminist-critique-intersectionality-theory-eve-mitchell

Yeah, this is very true. And anyone who dares to criticize it gets called "strasserite" or "nazbol"
(For example check the comment section under this video by SEV: youtube.com/watch?v=0vnLzfRqPS8)

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this is about decolonizing former settler colonies (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc.).
It is highly popular especially in maoist circles and supported by many maoist parties (PCR-RCP or so called "New Communist" movement)
These people are heavily influenced by the book called "Settlers" written by J. Sakai. Sakai argues in the book that there is no white proletariat in the US.

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it's not only that honestly
idpol in general is cancerous and anti-marxist in its nature
the whole concept of "this group is endangered give them spesh privileges and quotas" is ridicilous and anti-communist

Engels was openly aganist fags
Stalin criminilized faggotry
Stalin despised the Jews and called them godfathers of capitalism
.
I could go on for days

What does that mean exactly, what do they mean by "decolonizing"

I have an idea, let's start developing some brief but concise lines to help people fight identity politics in left-wing groups that doesn't just immediately send people off the deep end to label them as not being interested in helping fight racism, sexism, etc, but by showing how class supercedes and contains within itself a fight for "intersectionality".

We should talk about how things like racism are influenced by the resources a person has to either engage in or to avoid being afflicted by various identity attacks. It is much easier for a rich black man to avoid racial attacks than it is for a poor black man. We should talk about how a non-racist bourg who still pays his ethnic employees less than the value of their labor is subjecting them to greater vulnerability for identity attacks and prejudice. We should help them come to understand that a racist bourg is far more capable of doling out damage on their sexist biases than a worker is. It's useful to not deny that these things happen but rather to show that fighting capitalism implies fighting the capability of bigotry to effectively harm people.

I see the anarcho furfag is here to defend petite bourg Western women from evil brocialists who point out how stupid their "job" is yet again

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this just screams cointelpro

I haven't read the book but this is emprically false and believing it is approaching flat earth levels of denial

Agreed
However, this is idpol just as any other and divorced from the times and the reasoning. We have very little information on Engels opinion of homosexuals other than he called people such while writing the equivalent of shitposts and that they most likely fell in line with the time. The "criminalization of homosexuality" was not targeted at homosexuals in particular, but very specifically aimed at combating pederasty. This can be seen in its application, where about 800 to 1000 men were arrested yearly for the crime. It should also be noted that female homosexuality is never mentioned. The law is as follows:
Some other information on the subject
stalinsociety.org/2015/04/08/homosexuality-in-the-ussr/

the concept is "this group experiences systemic disadvantages so we'll give them a leg up here or there" you fucking retard
it's cool how every anti-idpol thread functions as a honeypot for the red chuds

Watch jimmy dore
Listen to Red Scare
Read Zizek
Read Fisher
Read Jodi Dean
Read wsws (ignore their autistic anti-trade union shit)
Subscribe to r/stupidpol
Subscribe to r/ChapoTrapHouse2 (The normal cth sub is full of she's now)
Join the IWW (It's way less cucked on idpol than Democrat Cops of America)

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Pic related it's you

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not him, but you have to be absolutely retarded to think that is a good idea when it's about gay people, minorities, etc.

in term of socio-economic status sure, i mean that's the fucknig base of communism, but anything else no

If you support the anti colonial struggle in Ireland and Palestine there's no reason not to support it in America

The very notion of "giving someone a leg up" is capitalist you liberal faggot. Advocate for universalism and solidarity or go vote for Alexandria "Socialism and Capitalism Can Coexist Reading Marx is for Nerds" Ocasio-Cortez again

Palestine and Ireland are anti-imperial not anti-colonial struggles and support for them should be predicated on anti imperialism not anticolonalism

The difference is that Ireland and Palestine are actually fucking being persecuted by Imperialists. Now before you talk about the DAPL, not only a native issue, it passes through the entire midwest, you twit I suggest you check yourself and stop crying about something from hundreds of years ago

It's almost like the primary difference between sex work and any other work is the ideology people attach to it.

Radicals don't treat symptoms and then call it a day, you basic bitch. The point is to solve the underlying systemic problems that cause the symptoms.

abolishing current "settler" states and creating black and indigenous states

This is literally anti materialist. Marx and Engels btfo this perspective in the fucking manifesto how the fuck is there a modern "marxist" movement based on it

lmao I was being descriptive not prescriptive you utter moron
this is like saying that marx was a capitalist because he wrote about capitalism

I'm having trouble imagining you detecting, let alone solving, any underlying problems when you can't even parse a simple sentence

Im not entirely that pro idpol, however i do believe a lot of more loudly anti-idpol groups tend to have some forms of more acceptance to some ideas im not entirely in agreeance with like anti-trans stuff and sometimes when you guys really get into the fervor of things you do tend to downplay certain issues like racial injusticies

That being said i still do believe thst a lot of the times people who are fery vocally pro idpol do open themeselves up to having their movements and messages being co-opted to liberalism and as someone whos involved in irl music communities theres always this sorta atmosphere of being as openly performative and shifting as much focus on idpol as possible for social clout thats annoying as fuck

feminism and postcolonial theory are SPOOKS

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So you don't think we should focus on reformism and liberalism and should instead build an actual working class left across cultural identities? I'm glad man for a second I thought you meant we should advocate for reparations and squeal every time a black millionaire gets cast in glorified military propaganda

Give me one specific example of something like this actually happening

You can't co opt something that was a ruling class project from the start:^)

Parsing is what you do when you read a sentence, not write it you dumbass. There's nothing wrong with the grammar there, either.

You see, at its core, the ideas behind idpol are not exclusively liberal. Progressive, sure, but not entirely liberal. What makes it liberal is the stress put on subjects and the actions. If you mention idpol issues along side class, and not making class a footnote to your ststement but like actually stressing class as well, then its not liberal, when people go on an entire circlejerk about idpol and never really actually focus on class (which happens imo a good 70% of the time), then it goes into the liberal spectrum.

I can give specific answers on downplaying issues on lgbtq stuff.

People wed idpol talking points to capitalism all the time by just throwing in "and yeah capitalism is why" at the end of it that doesn't mean it isn't a liberal analysis. It's really a shield from legitimate left criticism that makes many workers alienated from anticapitalist ideas because the people "critiquing" capitalism are also saying if you're a white person who has ever said the n word you should personally apologize to every single black person you see in public and going through tweets from a decade ago to cancel someone they don't like for making them feel uncomfortable for 2 seconds

Post them

These are dead debates. Before neoliberalism, it was fashion in third world countries to talk in terms of imperialist exploitation and not class exploitation. Ultimately, the conclusion was that the local bourgeoisie of third world countries was the ally of the proletariat, and that the proletariat of first world countries was the enemy who was ripping us off. With neoliberalism today, I don't see how anyone can really buy that. First world welfare states have gone bankrupt a long time ago.

this giy s0unds like he on theverge of crying everytime he speaks

on twitter they flat out say that once the state or capital has been defeated, the non indigenous are supposed to leave the continent or what ever ancestral (private) property they "own".

LMAO, I was talking about you parsing MY post, because your little "lesson" about radicals had nothing to do with what I actually wrote. But thanks for confirming the comment.

It’s important to note that idpol is a mere symptom of the wider problem of the left retreating away from class struggle and towards academia.

It means deporting “white” burgers to Europe.

They're extracting labor value from people now?

I guess drug kingpins are proles now too

Lmao

The children of petit bourg aren't petit bourg because they don't own the business amirite

Are the children not collecting income on others' labor? Do they usually not stand to inherit the assets that their parents owned that collect money through business profit? They're usually still living heavily off their parents' money which came from exploitation.

This is some autistic shit

Wow it's almost like sex workers make most of their money from people with disposable income in a similar fashion the leech children of small business owners

And in a flash, the socialist concept of exploitation as being part of the process of value creation vanishes, to be replaced with the explicitly liberal concept of exploitation through exchange.

spoken like a true incel. smh
@simoneDbongwaterXD
@submissivetopmisstrish

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This post is "Well actually the dictionary definition is" the post

Glad I know you're literally autistic so I can stop responding to u now

Pewdiepie is working class btw. So are chapo trap house

...

Pewdiepie actually probably gets a lot of his income though assets at this point.

Really not sure why you're trying to put social detritus in the same class as the ruling class.

Nah there was BPP who also used it but I don't think he posts anymore

You're also an idpoler

Oh, yeah, like two years ago or so. Still, it's mostly just Zig Forums bait as a flag.

Pewdiepie is working class
Will Smith is working class
Ninja is working class
Lady gaga is working class
Joe Rogan is working class
Black Pigeon Speaks is working class
Brad Pitt is working class
Twitch streamers are working class
The LA Beast is working class
Bodybuilders are working class
Those guys who go to vegan conventions and eat raw meat to own the libs are working class
Contrapoints is working class
The entire US Senate is working class
NEETs who live off the income of their dad who owns a guitar repair store and shit post about Jews all day are working class
Modern artists who sell a drop of red paint on a giant white canvass for 100000 dollars are working class
Carl Benjamin is working class
Tao Lin is working class
Lawyers are working class
Count Dankula is working class
That guy who drank his own cum to see if vegans taste better are working class
Jordan Peterson is working class

And I'd you disagree with me you're the one who misunderstands Marx

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Wait a second, are you that labor fetishist that tried to claim that factory work was a healthy good thing for people to do under socialism?

Nope. I just think it's ridiculous to insinuate that you aren't allowed to call someone petit bourg if they live that lifestyle to a t and do just as little labor for a comparable amount of money on average because they don't literally own private property

Its like when people are like "technically fascism and Nazism arent the same" it's just fucking stupid pedantic autistic drivel

And none of these people are exploited. The whole society operates like a vast inverted pyramid of oppression and surplus extraction. The only surplus that matters is that which is essential to survival – food production. If you’re producing food and it is appropriated from you by urbanites and non-producers, you’re being exploited. All other forms of exploitation are trivialities

So you'd rather throw out the idea of parasitism through property ownership as being absolutely core to the critique of capitalism just so you can throw a few market aberrations of social detritus in there?

Nuclear take.

If you call someone who acts petite bourg petite bourg despite then TECHNICALLY not LITERALLY being petite bourg you're going to destroy Marxism and leftist momentum in America
I legitimately can't tell if you're trolling or just a massive autist

Seems to me like you're getting upset your bit of ideology got thrown out

You're the one who thinks that I'm the cancer killing leftism because I disregarded the dictionary definition of petit bourg for two seconds.

We aren't allowed to call someone who is a neet who sells his plasma a lumped either cuz TECHNICALLY he did labor even though in every other feasible realm of his existence he acts like a lumpen

You're trying to make the claim that anyone doing sex work is making tens of thousands on a regular basis.
I don't see how that NEET would be anything other than lumpen though.

Idpol doesn't mean anything
You're wasting everyone's time with this horse shit, you dumbfuck splitter

Children are oppressing us, we must destroy them.

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fuck off /pol

If I recall, that quote is actually from the mouth of self described neo-nazi Kevin Alfred Strom, an ageing long-haul white nationalist convicted for child pornography. The reason we know this is that he wasn't happy that his writings were attributed to someone as famous as Voltaire, but has sperged out about it time and time again.
Since the (original) quote quite directly and unapologetically referred to Jews, I find it quite revealing that he could not simply just allow the quote spread in peace and exist as a dog-whistle. About his weak intelligence and fragile ego, particularly.

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Sex workers are either slaves or self employed petit bourg

The concept of "decriminalizing" or "legalizing" things is a sheepdogging tactic that can only be realized through capitalism (as opposed to socialism where these things will just be parts of society and thus the need to decriminalize or legalize then will be superfluous)

Solidariry>Intersectionality

LGBT people are fine but Queer Culture is a stupid consumerist spook

Gang Culture is fascist and was imposed upon colored communities as a way to keep them consumer drones and stop them from organizing along class lines

Representation in capitalist media does literally nothing at all for any oppressed group or cultural identity

Anti-Colonialism is outdated and support for modern national liberation movements should be predicated on anti-imperialism (materialist) rather than some romantic notion of "decolonization" (idealist)

Fetishization of indigenous life and attempting to institutionalize protection of it is reactionary

Boomers and Gen X were directly cultivated and grown in a Petri dish to be the most anticommunist and hyper consumerist generations ever and thus while blanket intergenerational hatred is spooky and reactionary it isn't entirely out of the question to treat boomers and gen x as guilty until proven innocent particularly if they come from what's left of the middle class or petit bourg

Small business owners are shit

There is literally nothing revolutionary about the Democrat Cops of America

Class reductionism literally just means materialism

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They are labor aristocracy. Fuck them.

He and other big youtubers are class collaborationists working closely with youtube corporate.
Film producer (bourgeois) and participates in Scientology, which is a pyramid/racketeering scheme.
who
Probably worked as a producer, but she also did a performance at the superbowl that involved drones from a military contractor.
Business owner shilling bullshit supplements.
who
Regularly produces films.
Yes, generally speaking streamers work for tips.
who
Professionals often are. Hobbyists usually can only afford to spend the time and money if they're not.
Maybe. Some of them work for think tanks producing nothing worthwhile.
Yes.
OK, obviously you have no idea how this works. They are part of the superstructure and get paid from surplus in bribes donations to do corporate bidding. Shit, not even public school teachers are technically working class because of being government employees who don't produce a commodity sold for a profit by a capitalist (although the form of their work makes them de facto in the same sort of position), but you picked the least-working-class people in the entire government.
NEETs who live off someone else's income are simultaneously reserve army of labor and petite bourgeois, as are NEET welfare recipients.
Sure, I guess?
He's running to be an MP, so not for long.
who
Absofuckinglutely not. Lawyers' work is all about making the legal system inscrutable so everyone needs them to do anything. They are worse than petite bourgeois or landlords. They are parasites on everybody.
who
who
I think? Someone saying stupid shit doesn't make them not working class.

It was literally to make fun of the faggot itt who can't comprehend why you should be allowed to call someone who makes thousands of dollars a day for doing an extremely low amount of work petite bourg despite then not technically owning private property but behaving like and living like a petite bourg i wasn't actually saying any of those people are working class

Well I didn't see that context my dude. Also hopefully the explanations help clarify the problem.

I really hate how "makes" and "earns" is used when talking about what someone receives, it reifies the legitimacy of it.

< Best Guess: $14K - $80K

Elaborate

It implies that someone actually created respectively deserves what he has, it is a specific instance of the just world fallacy.

How much you get paid has nothing to do with what class you belong to. Read Marx you fucking pseud.

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I#m sure those with that money don't have it invest. Guess a small business owner is worker too since he provides labour as a manager.

So, what, if a waitress buys some stock she's no longer working class?
You can earn any amount of money without investing it or getting it from surplus (although it's less likely the higher you go). No matter how much actual work a business owner does, they still exploit labor which makes them a capitalist. Class isn't a question of quantitative difference in earnings. It's a question of qualitative difference re: the relations of production.

But that's the point. If you make enough money to essentially function in society as a petit bourg do you still get to call yourself working class because technically you don't own any means and aren t exploiting the labor power of others? Thats one of the things about late capitalism (for lack of a better terms) that's kind of confusing, people now can technically not be a bourg but also not be a prole or a lumpen despite being that if you go by the strictest interpretation of Marx and Engels definitions

Maybe labour aristocracy is acbetter word, but if someone gets like 50k per month they will fairly quickly have a large amount of money coming in as capital gains.