Now that dumb fuck BO is dead, it is time to relive the grand Rojava general

Juan Moore
Juan Moore

Now that dumb fuck BO is dead, it is time to relive the grand Rojava general:

What is the situation now that ISIS are gone?

How will they fit into the new Syria?

Will Erdogan stop throwing his shit around?

What steps do they need to take to ensure against a smooth transition to socialism and communism?

muuuh kurds are imperialist
so why then does Assad ally with them and pay for their healthcare?

Brainlets out of this thread plz.

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Other urls found in this thread:

freeocalan.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Ocalan-Democratic-Confederalism.pdf
louisproyect.org/2017/06/17/did-the-kaiser-fund-the-bolsheviks/
louisproyect.org/2017/07/22/boris-souvarine-no-the-kaiser-did-not-fund-the-bolsheviks/
libcom.org/library/rojava-reality-rhetoric-gilles-dauvé-tl
trtworld.com/mea/is-assad-really-an-ally-to-kurds-in-syria--15152
nytimes.com/2018/12/28/world/middleeast/syria-kurds-turkey-manbij.html
aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/backed-syrian-kurds-agree-roadmap-assad-government-180728082610203.html
thedefensepost.com/2019/02/18/syria-sdf-assad-alliance-very-far-away-salih-muslim-lacamera/
channelnewsasia.com/news/world/assad-warns-syria-s-kurds-that-us-will-not-protect-them-11251794
socialistparty.ie/2015/08/kurdistan-democratic-autonomy-or-socialism/
youtu.be/8Cm_xcA1Xio
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4737624,00.html
cbsnews.com
southfront.org/israeli-mossad-is-training-sdf-intelligence-personnel-report/
slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/06/meet-the-kurdish-guerrillas-who-want-to-topple-the-tehran-regime.html
timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/
businessinsider.com/us-soldiers-ypg-patches-syria-2016-5
thegrayzone.com/2019/06/19/wheat-weapon-us-think-tank-starving-syrian-civilians-assad-negotiate/
voltairenet.org/article197831.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Meyssan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Party_of_the_Left
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
poal.me/o0v5zo
mesopotamia.coop/introduction-to-the-political-and-social-structures-of-democratic-autonomy-in-rojava/
rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/180320191
rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/230520191
meduza.io/en/lion/2015/11/18/stalin-is-back-this-time-as-a-kurdish-military-commander
cnn.com/2012/11/29/world/meast/mustache-transplants-middle-east/index.html)
ekurd.net/kurdish-pak-iran-islamic-state-2016-06-30

Asher Jackson
Asher Jackson

sage

Liam Martinez
Liam Martinez

wow good input you have clearly shown you know alot about the subject

Grayson Murphy
Grayson Murphy

first isis, next rojava

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Kayden Martinez
Kayden Martinez

he has the power to do this
he doesn't
it would be politically astute to do this even if he did
it isn't
he has shown any sign of doing this
he hasn't.

That's a big erection for someone you know nothing about though

Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

Will Erdogan stop throwing his shit around?

Should've linked the writings and websites. The implications of the analysis of the Nation-State and Ideology ring true for anyone politically disaffected from the PDF below.

freeocalan.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Ocalan-Democratic-Confederalism.pdf

Aiden Hughes
Aiden Hughes

sorry it has been two years i'm rusty.

Why does this relate to Erdogan throwing his shit around though?

Isaiah Sanders
Isaiah Sanders

It doesn't. Erdogan will never stop throwing his shit around. He is a shit thrower.

I remember the live-streams of the coup from a couple of years back when he was forced to facetime his supporters from his jet.

Austin Thompson
Austin Thompson

wow, great thread, you clearly shown that you aren't an ex-BO obsessed idiot who is here to prove a point about his past (shat upon by everyone) grievances but someone who is truly interested about them Kurds

Jose Foster
Jose Foster

sage

Christian Morgan
Christian Morgan

When you ally with imperialist forces to fight against the already existing government but your alliance falls through because of Turkey and your funds from daddy dry up so instead you ask for support from Assad who gives it out of necessity due to Turkey fucking around the border and so everyone should forget that you initially allied with the imperialists in the first place and let them build bases in your territory because "haha were on your side now!"
Ebin

Jonathan Garcia
Jonathan Garcia

Yeah long live the anarchist revolution in 150 US military bases in syria

Liam Evans
Liam Evans

Shit thread tbh. Rojava is a US puppet.

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William Powell
William Powell

Your dissenting opinion is appreciated, but denied. Please go read a book

Jose Reed
Jose Reed

When you ally with imperialist forces to fight against the already existing government but your alliance falls through because of France and Britain and your funds from daddy dry up so instead you ask for support from the Soviets who give it out of necessity due to Germany fucking around the border and so everyone should forget that you initially allied with the imperialists in the first place and gave them your territory because "haha were on your side now!"

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Grayson Ramirez
Grayson Ramirez

now wait a minute, when the fuck did the Bolsheviks ally with imperialists

Jack Garcia
Jack Garcia

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Alexander Harris
Alexander Harris

louisproyect.org/2017/06/17/did-the-kaiser-fund-the-bolsheviks/
louisproyect.org/2017/07/22/boris-souvarine-no-the-kaiser-did-not-fund-the-bolsheviks/

Robert Gray
Robert Gray

bolsheviks = bad people
imperialists = bad people
bolsheviks = imperialists

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Elijah Carter
Elijah Carter

In OP's alternate history folder

Hudson Morgan
Hudson Morgan

The decision was natural enough: every government at war tries to encourage domestic difficulties within the enemy country. It is unnecessary to invent an imaginary connivance between Ludendorff and Lenin.
I know Lenin was /ourguy/, I'm just saying that something similar is what happened in Rojava, just that the paper trail is thicker because that's how things are now.

Asher Rogers
Asher Rogers

its not. you are stupid.

Ayden Sullivan
Ayden Sullivan

It's okay to bomb middle-east countries with US planes landing in your territory which also help the fascist state of Israel conduct genocide on Palestinians people the Syrians arm of which without them existing this will also further destroy Russian power drastically increasing the power of the US's ability to basically just murder and kill everything for profit and the noose of death would grow ever larger and move onto Iran but all this is okay because Lenin got some Gold from some Germans. You liberal anarchists should all be taken outside and shot next to the bankers and Jewish atrocity committers you defend and support in their conquests.

Luis Kelly
Luis Kelly

Lenin didn't fucking ally with Germany you faggot, and this is but one the many huge differences between Rojava and the early Bolsheviks. Rojava openly allied with the US to fight against Assad and allowed the US to install bases within it's territories to do so. They also made no attempt to establish socialism within Syria itself and instead decided to break off in order to form their own ethnically based "anarchist" territory. Contrast this to the Bolsheviks who were not in any way allied with Germany and who were not attempting to merely form some ethnically based territory separate from Russia, and in fact opposed groups like the bundists who wishes to do so.

Josiah Ortiz
Josiah Ortiz

Other than Rojava are there any Red International Brigades someone who doesn't value their life can go train and fight for?

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Logan Smith
Logan Smith

When a serious opportunity arises we'll have threads on it, obviously.

Grayson Sanchez
Grayson Sanchez

He also gave them ukraine poland and belarus lmao. In retrospect germany collapsed but Lenin till the end was looking for rapprochement with the german government against the Entente or at least a benevolent neutrality against each other

Brody Bell
Brody Bell

when you abandon Marxism altogether for some derivative of Bookchinism and get your followers to implement decentralized socdem with market co-op characteristics
ebin

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Juan Kelly
Juan Kelly

If it's so terrible and 'un-Marxist' why is it in fact succeeding?

Women's liberation? Check
True democracy? Check
Revolutionary spirit? Check

Let me know when the Democratic Socialists of America, Momentum UK, or the WSWS begin the armed struggle against Fascist dictatorships and the bourgeois foundations of Neoliberal hegemony.

Fuck you, Heval (that means friend in Kurdish)

Isaac Scott
Isaac Scott

Please stop being provocative.

The situation for the DFNS looks grim. But then again its been looking grim for 5 years and they're still standing. Hopes keep getting built up and dashed. The peace deal with the syrian government seemed positive but they dont seem to be getting any direct assistance from the syrian military to drive turkey out. So maybe syria is hoping turkey will solver their problem for them. But the dfns still seems to be getting some heavy weaponry supplied from somewhere and keep giving the turks bloody noses. However they also seem to be resorting to "inflitration" (suicide) attacks now which indicates they are getting more desperate.

Jayden Davis
Jayden Davis

Yeah, no. He didn't "give" it to them, the German army broke the armistice and occupied all Eastern Europe. Soviets had to sign the peace treaty basically being held at gunpoint.

David Ross
David Ross

Syria going to war with Turkey is just asking for US interventionism. Rojava has won out against great threats before, this will be much the same (especially now that this is no longer a civil war, but a war of Turkish imperialism). They will get Syrian volunteers if it means defending from Turkey, along with all the Kurdish volunteers they have been getting since their inception. Not to mention Turkey has a very large Kurdish minority that has been oppressed since Erdogan took power. Turkey is, as ever, a massive racial powder keg with the Turks trying to dominate everyone, and I don't think that they will hold it together for much longer. Turkey will probably rip itself apart in a series of ethnic independence wars, imho.

Anthony Morales
Anthony Morales

I didn't know Ocalan was this much of a brainlet.

Adrian Thomas
Adrian Thomas

now that this is no longer a civil war, but a war of Turkish imperialism
Are you implying that it wasn't a case of US imperialism before?

Xavier Kelly
Xavier Kelly

Rojava isn't a US op lmao. They've opportunistically used US forces to fight IS and other religious extremists just how Venezuela uses Russia's military to ward off US imperialism. In an era where leftism is virtually wiped from any power, you will have to play off the imperialists to your own ends if you want power, until a new revolutionary country of power equal to the USSR arises. And they've played the US well, getting all the military support they needed to consolidate Northern Syria, cutting off their alliance with them when they started to lapse in their support for Rojava, and then allying with Syria (and by extension Russia), thus denying imperialists any of the power and influence they wanted in the region.

Kayden Flores
Kayden Flores

I feel like this kind of analysis is very crude and vulgar. Is every single Kurd in Rojava allied to the US, or did the leadership take a strategic decision?

Also, if you live in a country that has trade deals with the US, then you're also allied to them, but I don't see anyone derailing threads about the British Labour party.

What we're seeing here is a methodological nationalism, where non states are held to higher standards of purity than states

Julian Scott
Julian Scott

You are not answering my question. Are you denying that the "civil war" was backed by the US?

Lincoln Sanchez
Lincoln Sanchez

Your first paragraph contradicts your second. Your third is just pure stupidity.

Ian Ortiz
Ian Ortiz

And you are missing the nuance. Yes, the US did intervene in the civil war. No, they did not achieve their imperialist objectives because that was never the goal of Rojava to give the US the gains they wanted. Now as a result, several reactionary movements are destroyed and a leftist state has consolidated power in the region.

Call it an imperialist war all you like, but the actual facts on the ground won't change, nor will any of the people supporting Rojava change their mind about the usefulness of the tactical decision to opportunistically use the US to empower a leftist state.

Easton Sullivan
Easton Sullivan

No, they did not achieve their imperialist objectives
they achieved several of them
currently, Syria is divided and severely weakened with the Americans occupying the eastern half

Blake Phillips
Blake Phillips

Syria is less divided and weak than they actually wanted though, most of the "moderate rebel forces" they supplied have been wiped out either by the Syrian government or Rojava and the two biggest forces in the region, both Syria and Rojava, are actively allied together with Syria giving the Kurds financial aids. All of this has put all of Syria under the sphere of Russia, the thing that the US wanted to prevent the most, since this now means that Russia has a warm water port in the Mediterranean. The only thing that has really happened in a positive sense for the US was the Golan Heights getting occupied, but that is at best a short-term gain mostly for Israel that cements them as a permanent enemy in the Middle East and a warmonger to anyone who isn't a blatant zionist or weirdo christian. Assad's rule is probably more secure now with Rojava and Russia as allies than it was before the civil war.

Ethan Morris
Ethan Morris

rojava is an Israeli Zionist imperialist project even neo con talk radio show hosts in the usa support it

Hudson Jenkins
Hudson Jenkins

You know that the German troops liberated from the Ostfront almost broke the French lines in Operation Michael, right?
Conditions change, Lenin did questionable things and Rojava does questionable things. A material analysis would lead to supporting them over both hearteating McCainites and fashy not-even-socdems (I mean if Assad is socdem Germany is actually existing socialism).
And Russia isn't as fascist as America, I'd argue not fascist at all due to the absence of a predominant financial sector, but it's not the USSR anymore, not at all. I'm arguing in good faith and I really don't see where all the disdain comes from, I mean I shit on Kropotkin a lot for picking sides on WW1 and so should everyone else, I'm just saying that maybe, just maybe, we should do a more sober analysis than simply Russia good America bad.

Eli Rogers
Eli Rogers

Lenin did questionable things
Name 4.

Connor Smith
Connor Smith

Disbanding the factions
Brest Litovsk
Crushing the anarchists
Trusting Trotsky

You can say they were all pragmatic choices and we agree on most things, I'm just saying they're questionable as fuck from a contemporary perspective, and they actually got him shot.
Really, the luxury of hindsight is blinding most people to how much of a shitshow the Russian Civil War turned out to be. Like I said, not arguing against Lenin, just saying that maybe Rojava should get a more sober view.

Easton Thompson
Easton Thompson

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Connor Hill
Connor Hill

If the truth doesn’t fit my opinion I will just make up another.

The airbases appeared only after Turks kicked out the US. I suppose this makes turkey anti imperialist or something? How do you account for the Russian forces also present in Kurdistan are they also imperialist too?

Imagine thinking you are Leninist and not supporting national liberation from antinmarxist turd positionists.

Kurds
anarchists

So you have absolutely no idea what is actually going on there and you are just a retarded internet sectarian. Probably also thinks zapatistas are anarchist or something.

Lol which book exactly should I be reading on this subject

Leo Miller
Leo Miller

Is that Captain America?

John Foster
John Foster

If you live in an imperialist country you’re better off biding your time and working on base building and organizing comrade

Matthew Harris
Matthew Harris

complaining about something being anti Marxism then assuming shit that apo says necessarily translates exactly to the situation on the ground

But oh gee willikers billy that’s fucking idealism

co op characteristics
Except that is a tiny part of the economy. What they have now is basically early Soviet Democracy, it’s a dual power situation where councils have a large amount of power so do unions, but most major resources like energy and water are nationalised and managed by a national branch. It just so happens that members of the same parties established both branches.

This the most fucking annoying thing about you cunts. You take an anti Kurd position basically because anarchists like it, when you don’t actually have a fucking clue. They are massive tankies. Their cadre take vows not to even have romantic partners. You just have no idea what the fuck you are on about

Lincoln King
Lincoln King

Also missed out, the PKK, the only actually apoist faction also runs on democratic centralism.

Liam Butler
Liam Butler

Rojava openly allied with th US to fight Assad

No they fucking didn’t dont be so god damn dishonest. The enemy was ISIS.

not socialist enough for me
What about it isn’t socialist? Could you actually describe to me how the economy actually functions there? Do you know how it functions?

muh anarchist separatists
You are completely fucking stupid and you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about for the last fucking time, it’s basiclaly a social democracy with strong unions and councils. Yknow like the fucking Soviet Union.

the ussr never allied with imperialists
Yeh what the fuck was the Second World War exactly.

Go fuck yourself you retarded autistic fuck

Samuel Moore
Samuel Moore

Go fuck yourself you retarded autistic fuck
Incisive, clear, bold. A post worthy of any moderator's attention

Nolan Long
Nolan Long

Marxism is liberalism
History is clearly coerced by metaphysical forces
Reductionism
There is no base or superstructure, things happen for no reason.

Mason Price
Mason Price

Oh you don’t like my tone I suppose that definitely makes the Kurds imperial puppets and their leadership should listen to you on matters relating to their struggle

Aiden Stewart
Aiden Stewart

What about it isn’t socialist? Could you actually describe to me how the economy actually functions there? Do you know how it functions?
libcom.org/library/rojava-reality-rhetoric-gilles-dauvé-tl

Brody Foster
Brody Foster

USSR = social democracy with strong unions and councils
Oh, wow.

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Easton Murphy
Easton Murphy

Oh you posted that one article cool great. Now, how is there economy functionally different in terms of abolishing markets etc than any other socialist experiment? Has anywhere ever done this? No, besides in Spain and Maos China with communes that were unsustainable and were therefore reversed.

Also if your argument is actually “muh not real socialism” then how on earth do you justify support of Assad? Am I supposed to believe he more muh true socialism than the Kurds?

It had commodity production with state subsidised public services generated from the revenue on these commodities. What else was it.

It’s pretty telling all any of you can ever say is “lol” or “omg read a book” or post some link but none of you can actually describe in detail why you think what you think from your smug retarded pedestal.

Dylan Torres
Dylan Torres

all these supposed hardcore materialists who are actually larping idealists with absolutely no conception of the conditions in Kurdistan or why they are made
Absolutely smh

Brody Johnson
Brody Johnson

He still wanted German aid and relations of a sort. Thats why the Left SRs went apeshit and killed the German Ambassador because they perceived Lenin as cooperating with the Germans. Also, read about the negotiations of Brest Litovsk the Germans and Bolsheviks had a weird respect and camaraderie during the proceedings as they drank and dined together

Lucas Watson
Lucas Watson

read
But why would you do that if you are just here to larp as muh true rebolutionary who has probably never been part of organising the proletariat ever in their entire life

Brody Walker
Brody Walker

Two posters who used to frequent the board for these threads said the exact same thing before they stopped and left

Joshua Garcia
Joshua Garcia

And?

Brandon Williams
Brandon Williams

all these supposed hardcore materialists who are actually larping idealists with absolutely no conception of the conditions in Kurdistan or why they are made

Oliver Evans
Oliver Evans

donbas

Lucas Perry
Lucas Perry

How about you just say what your are cryptically trying to imply

Aaron Rogers
Aaron Rogers

Got some questions as I haven't been keeping up a lot with Syria lately
now that ISIS are gone?
They are gone? I'm aware somewhere during late 2018 they got completely fucked and lost their capital but I didn't know they were essentially out of the war.
Also any more info on how official/stable the alliance between Rojava and the SAA is?

Adam Cooper
Adam Cooper

trtworld.com/mea/is-assad-really-an-ally-to-kurds-in-syria--15152

"Regime forces, in March 2017, created a buffer zone between the YPG and Turkish-backed FSA in western Manbij, in order to protect the YPG from any possible FSA moves. They did the same in September 2017 in Afrin.

Assad’s stance towards the YPG changed after Daesh was defeated from urban areas of Syria in late 2017. Assad began calling the YPG “the traitors,” and rejected any US-backed forces on Syrian soil.

But it shifted again in January 2018, when Turkey began its operation in YPG-controlled Afrin in Syria. Opposing Turkey’s and the opposition groups' presence in Syria, Assad allowed movement of YPG militias for reinforcement through the regime-controlled areas. Iran-backed Shia militias, who fight along with the regime forces, are also based in those areas.

But it is now unclear how long Assad’s support will continue to the YPG, or if he will support the group’s desire to rule the areas they capture from Daesh in the long term. "

This describes how things look. Sources are mixed as to how the negotiations will go, and Assad has said some pretty strong stuff, but they do have a history of working alongside each other and they are negotiating and it does look like when the choice is between Turks and Kurds Assad choses Kurds, although again, sources are mixed. Putin has suggested that old agreements between Assad and the Turks that the Turks can do cross border operations against the PKK could be re-opened, but has however demanded that the Kurds and Syrians do not attack each other.

Thinking about the hard power in the situation, the Kurds have really quite a lot. They have a large, now battle hardened militia with mass popular support, while Assad is trying to stitch back together a country ravaged by the worst war in the last 10/20 years. At this point it would be incredibly stupid of him to start another civil war and he is not that stupid.

nytimes.com/2018/12/28/world/middleeast/syria-kurds-turkey-manbij.html

aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/backed-syrian-kurds-agree-roadmap-assad-government-180728082610203.html

thedefensepost.com/2019/02/18/syria-sdf-assad-alliance-very-far-away-salih-muslim-lacamera/

channelnewsasia.com/news/world/assad-warns-syria-s-kurds-that-us-will-not-protect-them-11251794

Blake White
Blake White

socialistparty.ie/2015/08/kurdistan-democratic-autonomy-or-socialism/

Jose Davis
Jose Davis

In the end, capitalism in Kurdistan will not be brought down by a Narodnik-like organisation, but rather by a socialist workers’ movement, through a still-to-be-built working class based revolutionary organisation in the region.

this is however idealism. Why has there been no working class revolution in the region? Why has the only workers revolution that has been successful in the region been along the new Ocalan line? What makes the Kurdish revolution specifically not a workers revolution? Because their leader is somewhat of an idealist? Does that mean they are not workers and they are not engaged in strengthening their own power, building their own socialist state and managing their own workplaces?

Nicholas Gray
Nicholas Gray

implying he's wrong

Gabriel Ramirez
Gabriel Ramirez

bump

Cooper Thomas
Cooper Thomas

Women's liberation? Check

True democracy? Check

Revolutionary spirit? Check

Proofs? Also none of those tgibgs are specifically Marxist.

America claims to have all of those things as well, does that make America Marxist?

Juan Baker
Juan Baker

Do you know how it functions?
Do you? What is your unbiased source?

Logan Parker
Logan Parker

this thread looks dead

Noah Sanchez
Noah Sanchez

Kurds Collaborating with Mossad
youtu.be/8Cm_xcA1Xio

Levi Collins
Levi Collins

lol the southfront site is begging for donation

Hunter Perez
Hunter Perez

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4737624,00.html

So what.. the USSR helped create Israel

Joshua Allen
Joshua Allen

unroo accuses kurds of ethnic cleansing
is he basing this off the debunked amnesty reports?

muh war crimes
war crimes according to who the UN lol

Caleb Gutierrez
Caleb Gutierrez

inb4

when Stalin created israel that was totally different somehow

Joseph Sanders
Joseph Sanders

Implying the USSR and Stalin singlehandedly created Israel
Implying the USSR and Stalin trying to utilize the early Jewish labour movements in the region to prevent the already pre-determined state of Israel from becoming a western expansionist imperialist state is the same as literally working with modern mossad
You're really stretching here

Christian Wood
Christian Wood

so what you are saying is that he collaborated with imperialists, like selling massive amounts of weapons to them so they can create a colonial state, alongside actually existing colonialists, in order to achieve some other aim. Lets call the aim irrelevant. They facts stand, he was willing, under many and various circumstances in fact, to work with the capitalists.

How is selling heaps of weapons, alongside campaigning for and voting for the creation of a colonial state, what would be becoming one of th emost negative influences in the region, not worse than getting some training.

Juan Barnes
Juan Barnes

Israel was going to come into existence whether the USSR wanted it or not. They could either act and gain some degree of influence in the newly emerging state and utilize said influence to reign the Zionists in the movement in, or watch as the west utilized Israel to obtain dominance and obtain a buffer between themselves and the other middle eastern states. The west won in this regard, but hindsight is 20/20. To compare that with working with mossad, a group everyone already has extensive knowledge about in the region, is incredibly dishonest.

Oliver Murphy
Oliver Murphy

To compare that with working with mossad, a group everyone already has extensive knowledge about in the region, is incredibly dishonest.

are you trying to claim that Stalin wasn't aware of how bad the imperialists were or something? No, he knew that, just like the kurds do, and he collaborated anyway, even by your own explanation.

There are other parts to your explanation like that he

created israel to own the zionists..

Xavier Sullivan
Xavier Sullivan

Prussia creating the USSR is a better example though. both it and Rojava are a result of imperialism and actually leftist

Robert Barnes
Robert Barnes

So pragmatism even at the expense of socialist values is okay when the Soviets do it, but not when Rojava does? The double standards here are ridiculous. The Soviets took all kinds of difficult steps to respond to their conditions, as they were right to do, but the second Rojava doesn’t conform to the idealized version of what western armchair commissars think a revolution ought to look like they’re the devil incarnate.

Gabriel Martinez
Gabriel Martinez

its completely bizzare isn't it. Genuinely i think its rooted in thinking the kurds are some post left anarcho-polyamory fest and being so sectarian that you believe this caricature

Matthew Robinson
Matthew Robinson

also I wonder why Unroohoo, funded by the Iranian government, could possibly be anti Kurd, who have lands which are under the control of the Iranians and are creating a robust national liberation movement.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

really gets those pistachios pondering don't it

Gavin Rogers
Gavin Rogers

communism is when you create an ethonstate

Bentley Morris
Bentley Morris

Back to school soon kiddo.

Carson Baker
Carson Baker

rojava is an ethnostate and not specifically designed to represent a huge variety of ethnic groups in order to ease tensions between these groups

you evidently really don't have a clue what you are talking about

Jaxson Long
Jaxson Long

also doesn't answer my questions about the roos dubious funding

Jaxon Ward
Jaxon Ward

Rojava isn’t an ethnostate, it has the active participation of Arabs, Turkmen, and Assyrians. They fight alongside Kurds and have special government bodies to protect their interests.

Jason Thompson
Jason Thompson

Even if Rohava was a post left petit bouj cuckfest it's still a revolutionary national liberation movement. Someone needs to post that Stalin quote on the emir of Afghanistan and the Egyptian bourgeois.

Xavier Carter
Xavier Carter

The people who condemn Rojava because they have coops and small private businesses instead of being 100% socialized will in the same breath insist that China is actually socialist.

Gabriel Diaz
Gabriel Diaz

So anyone got any proof?

Noah Sanders
Noah Sanders

Now I can LARP as a QT3.14 Kurdish freedom fighter from the comfort of my own living room! Thank you Activision!

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Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher

You can already LARP as a female Kurdish fighter in Insurgency Sandstorm which I guarantee is a much better game than the new CoD will be.

Lucas Russell
Lucas Russell

I tried it on the free weekend with above minimum specs and fuck me does it run like shit.

Liam Perez
Liam Perez

yeh, because you could never ever play as a Soviet Collaborating with the US to fight the Nazis in Call of Duty World at War.

That didn't happen ever.

Xavier Hill
Xavier Hill

proof that there has been womans liberation? Yeh how about the womans militias that have formed and the crowds of cheering women when the ypg/j enter an formally ISIS controlled territory?

revolutionary spirit
people literally sacrifice their whole lives for this revolution, not taking sexual partners etc.

true democracy
I mean if you want to get into a debate about the nature of true democracy…

Charles Hall
Charles Hall

do you have any proof beyond circumstantial evidence that the whole Kurdish liberation movement is actually an Israeli/US plot to balkanise Syria?

Jaxon Wright
Jaxon Wright

Not to mention Kurdish national liberation is a bigger threat to Turkey, an Islamist NATO member, than it is to anyone else

Aaron Price
Aaron Price

but the kurds are not muh true pure communism, only the socdem with arab characteristics who suppresses communist parties is the true communist

Adam Perry
Adam Perry

Best part is that Muammar Gaddafi supported Kurdish independence and didn't ser it as conflicting with pan Arabism

Jaxson Bailey
Jaxson Bailey

eh yeh well he also supported the IRA and the IRA made a peace deal with the brits so they are actually imperialist and so is Gaddafi by extension

Charles Butler
Charles Butler

Shit that means the New People's Army is imperialist too

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Colton Hill
Colton Hill

north korea

hey haven't they recieved aid from the US in the best, also Cuba have taken loans from the US and Yugolslavia from the IMF.

Absolute imperialists the lot of them.

Mason Powell
Mason Powell

Tbh Vietnam is also imperialist they signed a peace treaty with the Yanks.

Adrian Nelson
Adrian Nelson

proof that there has been womans liberation? Yeh how about the womans militias that have formed and the crowds of cheering women when the ypg/j enter an formally ISIS controlled territory?

Ok they're better than ISIS, is that really a high bar? A lot of groups fought ISIS, that's not a reason to fanboy them.

U.S. Troops Cheered In Baghdad - CBS News
cbsnews.com › news › us-tro…
Apr 9, 2003 · But in some parts of Baghdad, Iraqis celebrated, cheering President Bush and U.S. troops as they drove through.>>2926757

people literally sacrifice their whole lives for this revolution, not taking sexual partners etc.

People literally sacrifice their whole lives to establish the caliphate. That's war user. I don't even know how to reply to the sexual partners one. First source? How the fuck do you know the sex life of every kurd in syria. It's hard to know the sex lives of your friends and family unless they're big on kissing and telling, how the fuck do you know what is going on in syrian bedrooms?

I mean if you want to get into a debate about the nature of true democracy
Ok so far we got cheering civilians, and volcels, and a complete dodge on what's so inspiring about kurds

true democracy
A term another user introduced which I was questioning.

You know how many regional/ethnic conflicts are going on in the world? Why should I join the kurd fan club? Because the US media told me to? Because of the cuties with rifles?

do you have any proof beyond circumstantial evidence that the whole Kurdish liberation movement is actually an Israeli/US plot to balkanise Syria?

You said it not me bro.

Nolan Lee
Nolan Lee

Why don't you read up on the positions of actual M-L parties when it comes to the kurds and their alliance with NATO?

Sebastian Mitchell
Sebastian Mitchell

It had commodity production with state subsidised public services generated from the revenue on these commodities

Except for the fact that a product isn't a commodity unless it's sold for a trading value that's different than it's usage value.

Camden Carter
Camden Carter

you can't be this retarded

Austin Stewart
Austin Stewart

donbas
india
Philippines

the dprk is also on standby against imperialist aggression

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

Donbas
Far too tangled up with Russian imperial interests and has plenty of reactionary streaks. We’re talking about people who carry around Russian Imperial flags and portraits of the Tsar here.

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Cooper Lewis
Cooper Lewis

When have Naxals or the New People's Army ever taken foreign recruits or an international brigade?

Jose Parker
Jose Parker

there are many fractions within donbass. the communists there don't carry portraits of the tsar, that's for sure

Don't think they would turn you down

Aaron James
Aaron James

They are both terrible decisions but I don't seem to remember the USSR sending people to receive training from Mossad in occupied Palestine and giving the Zionists the ability to recruit Soviet citizens as Mossad agents. Which is basically what is happening according to the report. There are pro-KRG right wing Kurdish nationalists in the region who would gladly volunteer to become a fifth column for the Zionists.
southfront.org/israeli-mossad-is-training-sdf-intelligence-personnel-report/
Either way if they do shit like this, it will put further strain on relations with the government, which they are going to need if they ever hope to combat Turkey and the so-called FSA. The recent decision to block grain exports to the government controlled areas isn't helping things either.
He's had the same position since before his affiliation with PressTV.
Also PJAK in Iran have a spokesperson who literally stated that they wish that they were a US puppet and that George W. Bush is equivalent of the Mahdi. The (official) feeling is not mutual however since US designated them as terrorists.
slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/06/meet-the-kurdish-guerrillas-who-want-to-topple-the-tehran-regime.html
If you want, you can already LARP as a low level Syrian Army officer in Syrian Warfare (2017) and thank the Russian devs for it.
socdem with arab characteristics who suppresses communist parties
That's Saddam, not Bashar. In Syria there are two Communist parties in the government coalition and another in a (legal) opposition coalition. There's also the Popular Front for the Liberation of Iskandarun - Syrian Resistance, a mostly Alawite M-L militia which is fighting the Turkish occupation of Hatay since before the war.
haven't they recieved aid
The imperialists helped create the conditions which required them to seek aid in the first place with their sanctions and embargoes. That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.
Yugolslavia from the IMF
<goes into massive debt, implements shock therapy and goes into crisis mode
bad example tbh
Natalia Poklonskaya
First pic is Crimea, not Donbass. There are also plenty of people there who carry pictures of Lenin and Stalin.
And some Russian nationalists have a weird tendency to create combinations of Tsarist and Soviet imagery.

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James Martinez
James Martinez

1969-1976
More like 1975

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Daniel Davis
Daniel Davis

There are pro-KRG right wing Kurdish nationalists in the region who would gladly volunteer to become a fifth column for the Zionists.
The KRG and Rojava are completely different entities, and are not even on good terms with one another. Conflating them is either a sign of serious ignorance of the situation or outright dishonesty.
That's Saddam, not Bashar. In Syria there are two Communist parties in the government coalition and another in a (legal) opposition coalition.
Hafez Al Assad conducted systematic repression of communists in the 70s and 80s, and Bashar himself is hardly a socialist, pursuing neoliberal economic policies in the lead up to the war.

Xavier Cox
Xavier Cox

Reminder Hafez al-Assad and Abdullah Ocalan were literally pen pals and mutually worked together to undermine Turkey for decades. If anything, the SDF and Bashar are heading back toward the status quo ante.

Jaxson Lopez
Jaxson Lopez

There is no conflation here. Right wing Kurdish nationalists who support the KRG exist even in Syria who are represented by the KNC party. It's not like everyone converted to demcon.

Samuel Rodriguez
Samuel Rodriguez

there’s a right wing party in Rojava that isn’t even in power therefore the YPG are US puppets
Flawless logic.

Grayson Peterson
Grayson Peterson

<the source claimed that Israel wants to establish a friendly intelligence service in the SDF-held areas. The service would recruit spies for the Mossad and provide information of interest for Israel.
southfront.org/israeli-mossad-is-training-sdf-intelligence-personnel-report/
saying that right wingers in Rojava would gladly work with the Zionist intelligence and become Mossad spies thus achieving Zionist ambitions is saying that YPG are US puppets
Fantastic reading comprehension

Luis Long
Luis Long

FRIENDLY FUCKING REMINDER THAT THE CIA WAS WITH THE KURDS AND SHIT LIKE ROLLING STONE WANTS YOU TO FIGHT WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING BASED AND SHIT

Cameron Scott
Cameron Scott

the CIA's task is to staff the left. They don't staff the right–that'll take care of itself; they staff the left. They give a fellow a liberal credential, they'll let you trust him, and they'll always give you a cookie. A guy writes an article for Ramparts and says, 'The Gulf Oil company wants to start a war so they can drill offshore in Vietnam.' The reader says, 'Wow, what revelations.' that's your cookie.

Anthony Wilson
Anthony Wilson

ISIS is the true Anti-Imperialistic Faction.

Carter Rodriguez
Carter Rodriguez

Is that why Moshe Yaalon stated that he would prefer if ISIS controlled the Syrian border rather than an Iranian ally?
timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/

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Luke Richardson
Luke Richardson

This. All communists should support islamic theocracy in Iran instead.

Easton Sanchez
Easton Sanchez

Southfront
One source, a most likely biased one at that, is not convince evidence m8

Isaiah Clark
Isaiah Clark

Holy shit the fact that so many of you guys support reactionary factions like ISIS rather than the closest thing to a leftist revolution is fucking incredible. Many of the other parties part of Rojava's parent organization are considered terrorist organizations by Western liberal democracies. The kurda are literally allies with Assad and are using Western military aid to their advantage to defeat a common enemy, literally just like the Soviets did in WWII. Christ I'm starting to think that all these anti Rojava tards are probably dengists retards who unintentionally spew Turkish propaganda because Rojava isn't socialist enough despite having decentralized direct democracy much akin to council communism. We aren't accomplishing anything by ignoring the kurds, comrades. Hell, with our support we can steer them towards more socialist practices. This is our fucking chance to establish something great. What ever happened to 'workers of the world unite?' We can do better than being a bunch of sectarian armchair activists quarrelling about sectarianism on an anime forum. I've been planning on joining one of the international brigades to actually get shit done and get out of burgerland. I'm not going to sit on my ass and pass up this chance to participate in this revolution.

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Jaxson Reyes
Jaxson Reyes

Ok they're better than ISIS, is that really a high bar?
they are considerably better than almost any of their neighbours, including Assad, given they aren't Arab Nationalist Neoliberal welfare statists who suppress communist opposition like Assad, Erdogan etc etc

U.S. Troops Cheered In Baghdad
and? was there womens militas and everything else? No.

sexual partners
I didn't say every single one of them you anus, just the core of the cadre.

what is inspiring about the kurds
They are a Marxist Leninist and Maoist (and anarchist) inspired insurgency that has managed to build a state.

Why should I join the kurd fan club? Because the US media told me to? Because of the cuties with rifles?
your support of them makes very little difference to them, although propoganda is a weapon.

Where is the US media backing the kurds and what they are about beyond becoming "the US backed Kurd's" very late in the game when they had already been fighting for a long time by themselves. None of the media really touches on exactly what the Kurds are fighting against, very few will mention their anti capitalist roots.

the cuties with rifles
christ you need to get off the internet. Yeh sure people post pictures of kurd women do you really think this has any bearing onhow a communist should view the conflict? You talk like you know so much about imperialism you bring up a point like that while there is an actual war going on.

You said it not me bro.
i am clearly not the one calling them US puppets here as others are doing. I am saying they are in a position to be used by the US in a way that benefits them and they are going along with it for the time being.

why don't you. Show my ML parties which do not support them i can bet you i can show you many many more that do

it was sold for a trading value, price controls and so on do not change this, they merely cheapen the trading value

It's good, but its still a commodity.

whats retarded?

and giving the Zionists the ability to recruit Soviet citizens as Mossad agents.
no just helping to create the country that is the zionist dream in the first place. Come on jesus this is such a reach.

There are pro-KRG right wing Kurdish nationalists
a tiny sect compared to the mostly tense relations with the KRG between the relevant adminstrations. Some kurds supporting these people does not mean the whole country does.

its like saying everyone in vichy france was a fascist or something.

Also PJAK in Iran have a spokesperson who literally stated that they wish that they were a US puppet and that George W. Bush is equivalent of the Mahdi.

I also just want to quote this article you posted for the guy above, because it is another source on the celibacy question

"The guerrillas pride themselves on godlessness and sexual freedom, although they are celibate. "

"this rebel camp where everyone’s heroes are Che Guevara and Spartacus."

Also the reference to george bush as a messiah is a Shiite thing not a Kurdish specific thing

That's Saddam, not Bashar. In Syria there are two Communist parties in the government coalition and another in a (legal) opposition coalition.
and yet as recently as the 80's communists have been suppressed and murdered even as part of these coalitions.

The imperialists helped create the conditions which required them to seek aid in the first place
just like the US created the situation in Syria

That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.
That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.
That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.

Cameron Lewis
Cameron Lewis

the media can never inadverntantly have a correct position ever at all

Jose Taylor
Jose Taylor

the CIA's task is to staff the left.
no the cias task is to literally to destroy the left you mug that is why there were invented

Matthew Harris
Matthew Harris

LMAO @ THIS KID LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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Owen Young
Owen Young

The issue is that we should ask what works best to defeat international capitalism. Anyone who thinks that ISIS is anything more than a GIGANTIC excuse for Western "humanitarian intervention" is deluding themselves. Nothing has been a better public excuse than humanitarianism. Seeing as ISIS itself has significant western ties along its entire existence, it's a ridiculous suggestion that theyd be a better winner here. It's not a question of who's right and wrong or more left or reactionary, it's a matter of who is more or less useful to imperialists, and ISIS is hugely useful

Kayden Wright
Kayden Wright

Both sides treat proletarians like dog shit. Your nation will either be proxy to the Americans or Iranians or some other barbaric reactionary shit. In the end somebody will make a bunch of money "liberating" those unfortunate souls. Even if we destroyed the American hegemony as long as global capitalism still remained in some form another nation-state entity would just fill in that niche in the system.

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Aiden Long
Aiden Long

That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.
And eventually they screeched about not getting enough concessions and backed out of the Agreed Framework in the 90s and more recently went back on Cuban detente

Dominic Turner
Dominic Turner

seething this hard
XDDDDD
muh gabitalist pigs
COPE nigger

Jace Smith
Jace Smith

was there womens militas and everything else?

Now I see, ladies with rifles is the true meaning of socialism.

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Sebastian Howard
Sebastian Howard

Only relevant revolution in the current modern age. Cooperative economy is the future and tankies get the bullet.

Blake Brown
Blake Brown

as recently as the 80's
Which would be under Hafez. Though in spite of that he had good relations with foreign communists.
That was just letting them help fix the mess they caused.
It was practically reparations.

Julian Lee
Julian Lee

trying this hard to dodge around the issue
1) we were talking specifically about womens liberation
2) the “ladies with rifles” in Kurdistan are part of women only militias specifically designed to be the militant wing of the woman’s liberation
3) it is representatives from these militias who have been instrumental in pushing back against reactionary culture in the region, to enforce rules about forced marriage, polygamy, sexual violence, sexual slavery etc
4) why is that people such as Mao have said women hold up one half of the sky, Lenin was a feminist, pretty much every major revolutionary you can name is a feminist, but retards on Zig Forums think that feminism, within the context of a revolution built around workers councils, community councils and trade unions, is somehow not socialist

There is being anti western liberal idpol and then there is ignoring the extremely prevalent tradition of socialist feminism.

Robert Reed
Robert Reed

Not dodging anything. The female aspect is neither here nor there for me. Just miss me with your propaganda about the cheering liberated locals and the brave volcels and what ever other stupid ass shit you think is relevant to anything.

Camden Sanders
Camden Sanders

spoken like a true socialist huh

Joseph Green
Joseph Green

So you spend 20 years killing the communist factions and only allowing their most agreeable leaders have (barely) a voice, in the next 20 there aren’t so many to kill and silence. Hmmm wonder why. Sounds like the classic de radicalisation tactics of socdems on the far left. Bathist parties have a long history of killing communists but somehow in this instance they are the true communists. Do you realise how ridiculous that is? Sure, Baathism is better than the theocratic neoliberalism of the rest of the region, in the same way the government of Sweden is better than that of the US, does not make it communist however, particularly if you generally pursue policies of privatisation etc as Assad has done,

Jordan Richardson
Jordan Richardson

So you don’t have a real answer at all then. How do you respond to the fact that it was a revolution that came out of unions, councils, and the workers state they created to represent them? That not socialist enough for you?

Nathan Allen
Nathan Allen

Also

good relations with foreign communists.

The majority of foreign communists who aren’t pro Isis trot cranks support the Kurds.

Eli Price
Eli Price

Also talking about propaganda like it’s a dirty word and not something every single political entity engages in, particularly communists. Do you even fucking agitprop bro

Angel Wilson
Angel Wilson

revolution that came out of unions, councils, and the workers state they created to represent them

All those buzz words totes made me forget about the cia.

Wyatt Torres
Wyatt Torres

Do you even fucking agitprop bro
Not for cia entities bro.

Jack Miller
Jack Miller

ah right so the CIA created the entire Kurdish revolution. Okay. So you have anything to back that up then?

Xavier Taylor
Xavier Taylor

unions and councils are buzzwords?

So you have some alternative interpretation of history where it wasn't worker power but the CIA who created the system in Rojava, please I'm all ears

Landon Jenkins
Landon Jenkins

also this is just what is endlessly frustrating with you people.

You are proven wrong on womens liberation so suddenly its not socialist womens liberation, which you are then proven wrong on, so then you are back to saying the whole thing was a CIA plot, which you have no proof of, so then you go back to something else, its completely circular, its not real socialism because CIA created and its CIA created because its not real socialism. Neither of which you have any proof for and at every stage the goalposts will be moved.

Aiden Walker
Aiden Walker

worker power
Please no more buzzwords, you're converting me.

How was ISIS caliphate not created by "worker power" if that's what created Rojava, I'm all ears.

Neither of which you have any proof for and at every stage the goalposts will be moved.

Ironically you haven't provided proof for a single claim you made in this thread.

Grayson Taylor
Grayson Taylor

How was ISIS caliphate not created by "worker power"
are you completely insane?

Isis was created by a bunch of fundamentalist igenerals who met in the US prison camp buqqa who came to power building a caliphate based on islamic theocracy.

Contrast to Rojava where over years they built up dual power which then assumed control when the state over them lost control, as is traditionally communist.

Seriously you have got to the point where you are comparing unions and community councils directing a state to a theocracy?

this is how far you are gonna reach?

Ironically you haven't provided proof for a single claim you made in this thread.
lol but i have.

here:

where I quote from source material on celibacy of the Kurds, ironically provided by someone who was trying to say the opposite.

here:

where i provided evidence of the USSR helping to create isreal

Here:

where i provide four different sources on kurdish- assad relations, not only giving you sources with different viewpoints, but also evaluating these viewpoints as a whole.

Michael Sanchez
Michael Sanchez

are you now going to even explain how the Kurdish revolution was CIA created, even without providing evidence?

or are you literally just gonna say "uuuh muhhh, CIA.. uhhh" and leave it at that?

William Brooks
William Brooks

2930570

where I quote from source material on celibacy of the Kurds, ironically provided by someone who was trying to say the opposite.

Where is the link for that?

Jaxon Roberts
Jaxon Roberts

slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/06/meet-the-kurdish-guerrillas-who-want-to-topple-the-tehran-regime.html

i see you are carrying on your tradition of refusing to read and instead instantly screaming gotcha, completely ignoring all other information.

Admit, concede, that actually i have provided sources on several claims, regardless of accidently not being completely 100% clear about one of those claims, even though if you actually read the thread you would see clearly where the link is.

Now where are your sources. Where even are your claims?

Austin Kelly
Austin Kelly

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Wyatt Baker
Wyatt Baker

They are cia stooges.

businessinsider.com/us-soldiers-ypg-patches-syria-2016-5

US troops wearing Kurdish patches while they fight ISIS

An analyst at a think tank bankrolled by the US government and NATO has an idea: Use the “wheat weapon” to starve Syria’s civilian population.

thegrayzone.com/2019/06/19/wheat-weapon-us-think-tank-starving-syrian-civilians-assad-negotiate/

“Wheat is a weapon of great power in this next phase of the Syrian conflict,” insisted Nicholas Heras, a fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) in Washington, DC.

Washington can pressure its Kurdish allies to restrict the country’s food supply, Heras argued, “to apply pressure on the Assad regime, and through the regime on Russia, to force concessions.”

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Anthony Moore
Anthony Moore

At the beginning of the « Arab Spring », from his cell, Abdullah Öcalan rebuilt the PKK around a new ideology. After secret negotiations with NATO in the İmrali prison, he abandoned Marxist-Leninism for « libertarian municipalism ». This man, who had always struggled against Turkey in order to build his own state, Kurdistan, now believed that any state is in itself a tool of oppression [2].

voltairenet.org/article197831.html

Jackson Bell
Jackson Bell

we are well aware of Kurdish US relations. This has been discussed at length. They are allies in the same way the US and USSR were allies.

Them wearing some US equipment is not evidence that the whole Kurdish revolution was a CIA plot, as you claim. As the Kurdish revolution has been going on far, far longer than the US have been involved in it.

This source does not show that at all.

as for the rest of it

washington could do this
yet is there any evidence that the Kurds are doing this and doing this for this reason?

Also this would be essentially Assads own fault for enforcing the monoculture which the kurds now struggle with.

"Thierry Meyssan reveals this insane project which has been ongoing for the last eighteen months."

18 months.

This cunt thinks this 30 year saga can be summed up in 18 months of activity…

"After secret negotiations with NATO in the İmrali prison,"

which he gives absolutely zero evidence of taking place,

lmao nice blog though

William Russell
William Russell

Workera of the world stand up and unite around comrade Bolton and his socialist Iranian Revolution!!!

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Leo Bell
Leo Bell

a note on the author

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Meyssan

"In 1994, Meyssan became a staff member of the Radical Party of the Left (PRG), a center-left political organization"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Party_of_the_Left

"The Radical Party of the Left (French: Parti radical de gauche, PRG) is a social-liberal[1][2] political party in "

"In 2002, he published a book on the September 11 terrorist attacks—9/11: The Big Lie—in which Meyssan argues that such attacks were organized by a faction of the US military industrial complex in order (1) to impose a non-democratic regime in the United States and (2) to extend US imperialism. The book was translated into 28 languages.[1] It is one of "the first wave of book-length conspiracy speculations" in France and Germany about 9/11.[2]

His following book was Le Pentagate, a book arguing that the attack against the Pentagon was not carried out by a commercial airliner but a missile. The central thesis of the book is that a Boeing 757 did not hit The Pentagon. This was heavily criticised by other prominent 9/11 Truth Movement members such as Jim Hoffman.[3]"

Nicholas Green
Nicholas Green

In recent times, he published several stories claiming Donald Trump is the victim of a "campaign that has been scientifically organized against the President of the United States", orchestrated "by the sponsors of Barack Obama [and] Hillary Clinton".[9][original research?]

Meyssan is currently living in Damascus, Syria.[citation needed] He is columnist for the main Syrian newspaper, Al-Watan

Angel Turner
Angel Turner

al watan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Watan_(Syria)

"Al Watan was launched in 2006.[1][2] The paper is published by the Syrian Arab Publishing and Distributing Company. It is the country's first private daily newspaper since the 1960s (not counting the state party organ Al-Baath), but its editorial line and reporting is practically identical to that of the public-owned papers.[3] In fact, the owner of the daily is the cousin of the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Rami Makhlouf.[1] Its sister daily is Al Autism Leveltissadiya.[4]"

In fact, the owner of the daily is the cousin of the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Rami Makhlouf.[1] Its sister daily is Al Autism Leveltissadiya.[4]"

In fact, the owner of the daily is the cousin of the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Rami Makhlouf.[1] Its sister daily is Al Autism Leveltissadiya.[4]"

seems like an unbiased source my friend

Kayden Bennett
Kayden Bennett

workers of the world unite around baathist communist killers

Luke Thomas
Luke Thomas

workers of the world unite around baathist communist killers

No they are communists, they have a sickle on their flag and work with the CIA, what more proof of their authenticity do you need?

Nathan Russell
Nathan Russell

MEK cult has basically no real support inside Iran or even among other Iranian exile groups as they are viewed as traitors who worked with Saddam while he was gassing Iranians.

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Matthew Torres
Matthew Torres

assad works with the cia
kurds work with the CIA
the USSR works with the CIA
the CIA worked with the Nazis
the cia works with liberals
the CIA is all seeing and all knowing
the CIA IS GOD.

jesus fucking christ

Michael Lopez
Michael Lopez

just on

muh patches are imperialist

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Benjamin Perry
Benjamin Perry

the CIA IS GOD.
Not what I said at all retard. Let me spell it out for you: no real socialist would knowingly collaborate with the CIA.

Liam Wilson
Liam Wilson

Right. So what you say is actually
CIA is THE DEVIL

Adrian Sanders
Adrian Sanders

Not at all retard, they are jyst one of many enemies of real socialists.

Xavier Baker
Xavier Baker

No Jesuit. They must be more, because obviously you can collaborate with your ennemies.

Charles Thomas
Charles Thomas

obviously you can collaborate with your ennemies.
Let's go collaborate with the naational socialists!!

Incredibly based.

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Jaxon Sanchez
Jaxon Sanchez

So the USSR were not real socialists in your opinion.

Juan Reyes
Juan Reyes

Let's go collaborate with the naational socialists!!
Are you mocking comrad Stalin ?

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Jeremiah Collins
Jeremiah Collins

Yes. Real socialism has never existed outside of Ba’athist Syria don’t you know.

Jose Sullivan
Jose Sullivan

Yeah dude! I mean it worked out great for The USSR! Wait…

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Gabriel Hughes
Gabriel Hughes

If that's the benchmark, yeah sure it did.

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Elijah Jones
Elijah Jones

64 d russian chess
So that means YPG will be marching on DC in a year or two?

WTF, I love Rojava now?

Leo Perry
Leo Perry

Yes obviously.

Unless of course reality is not as simple as you want it to be. But that can't be, right ? Things are either GOOD or BAD, and stay that way regardless of the material situation.

By the way, remember when your goalposts were "real socialists" ?

Jackson Butler
Jackson Butler

Now that dumb fuck BO is dead
I haven't been on Zig Forums for a while, can someone explain what happen to the BO?

Charles Morris
Charles Morris

By the way, remember when your goalposts were "real socialists" ?

Which you never proved. So far we have your evidence as: ladies with guns and an article from 2006 about how some iranian kurds were volcels.

Aiden Hall
Aiden Hall

I arrived on this thread there .
Stalin collaborated with his enemies, the nazis and the americans.
If he's not a real socialist, what about Lenin ? He did just that too. Mao too.
Actually choose any socialist leader : he probably collaborated with his enemies.

Hunter Nguyen
Hunter Nguyen

Also I wasn't the guy you were replying to here you schizo:

Also if your argument is actually “muh not real socialism” then how on earth do you justify support of Assad? Am I supposed to believe he more muh true socialism than the Kurds?

And to quote you:

Unless of course reality is not as simple as you want it to be. But that can't be, right ? Things are either GOOD or BAD, and stay that way regardless of the material situation.

Because I have no particular affection for the kurds doesn't mean I love Assad. Maybe they both suck? No that can't be it:

Things are either GOOD or BAD, and stay that way regardless of the material situation.

Daniel Jackson
Daniel Jackson

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact
WW2

Matthew Cook
Matthew Cook

I arrived on this thread there

Then what was tbe goalposts comment supposed to mean you fucking nutjob? How am i supposed to remember a discussion we never had schizo?

Dominic Turner
Dominic Turner

Stalin collaborated with his enemies, the nazis and the americans.

If he's not a real socialist, what about Lenin ? He did just that too. Mao too.

Good thing all those socialist regimes worked out in the long run otherwise that would look like a bad strategy.

Kevin Perry
Kevin Perry

Good thing all those socialist regimes worked out in the long run otherwise that would look like a bad strategy.

I mean it would look like the first step in a long history of futher and further selling out the socialist model and ideals, but that can't be because it is a great strategy.

Chase Campbell
Chase Campbell

The goalposts comment was about how you first say real socialists don't collaborate, then switch to it being a bad strategy you fucking conman.
(in case you don't know what words mean, real socialist and good strategist are not synonymous)

So now that the goalpost is "good strategy", please explain how Lenin refusing to deal with the germans and not being able to conduct the revolution is a better strategy. Or how refusing lend/lease, or the truce with the chinese nationalists, is a better strategy.
Or how fighting ISIS with rocks and getting enslaved is a better strategy than accepting american support and getting a state of your own.

Chase Martinez
Chase Martinez

The goalposts comment was about how you first say real socialists don't collaborate, then switch to it being a bad strategy you fucking conman.

(in case you don't know what words mean, real socialist and good strategist are not synonymous)

But something can both be counter to socialist ideals and a bad strategy, is that too hard to understand retard?
accepting american support and getting a state of your own.
When did that happen? You mean like Iraq?

Carson Scott
Carson Scott

It happened in Rojava.

What's hard to understand is how you believe dropping basic logic is going to help you convince anyone.
Can be != is, you slimy weasel.

Also, neither real socialists nor good strategists are idealists.

Nolan Carter
Nolan Carter

It happened in Rojava
No ot didn't you fucking retard.

Dominic Bennett
Dominic Bennett

I mean this is not even fucking debatable. How high on Kurdish braps are you right now user?

Cooper Jones
Cooper Jones

And to quote you:
except that wasn't me and there is even the flags to show you moron.

Because I have no particular affection for the kurds doesn't mean I love Assad. Maybe they both suck? No that can't be it:
ha congrats for being the most dishonest poster on this board.

this is literally "lol communism will never work lol breadlines ahaha" tier

Which you never proved. So far we have your evidence as: ladies with guns and an article from 2006 about how some iranian kurds were volcels.

and again, most dishonest poster on this board.

I told you the reason there was womens liberation was the womens militias who deal with issues relating to womens liberation.

What makes it really socialist, which you completely ignored and then claimed they were "buzzwords" is the fact that it is a revolution born of trade unions and workers/community councils, who built up dual power and then took control to form a workers state in lieu of the bourgeois social democratic Syrian state when it lost control.

You then started rabbitting some crock of shit about how the kurds are no different to ISIS.

you lost about 50 posts back fam give it the fuck up

Chase Harris
Chase Harris

the last of half of this post was in response to this

John King
John King

the kurds don't currently control a de facto state
um yes they do you dumb shit motherfucker. They have everything a normal state has. They have a bicameral legislature controlling a large standing army and administrating public services within a defined border. What the fuck else is it?

Christopher Cook
Christopher Cook

um yes they do you dumb shit motherfucker. They have everything a normal state has. They have a bicameral legislature controlling a large standing army and administrating public services within a defined border. What the fuck else is it?
um yes they do you dumb shit motherfucker. They have everything a normal state has. They have a bicameral legislature controlling a large standing army and administrating public services within a defined border. What the fuck else is it?

Being recognized by literally anyone. They're a sovereign state the same way the caliphate was a sovereign state and theu will share the same fate.

Chase Bailey
Chase Bailey

Get the fuck outta here with your self righteousness. You already admitted you are just engaging propagandizing. You are completely disengenuous and your ethno-natialist sepetate parties are not socialist and destined for their rigjtful failure.

Leo Flores
Leo Flores

Get the fuck outta here with your self righteousness. You already admitted you are just propagandizing. You are completely disengenuous and your ethno-natialist seperatist parties are not socialist and destined for their rightful failure.

Tyler Powell
Tyler Powell

Being recognized by literally anyone
you mean like how people don't recognize palestine? Thought you were anti israeli mate

They're a sovereign state the same way the caliphate was a sovereign state and theu will share the same fate.

you have said so many things which show you have some weird pro ISIS leanings

nutter

You already admitted you are just propagandizing
where did i say this

You are completely disengenuous

coming from you Mr "unions and worker power are buzzwords ISIS and the Kurds are the same thing"

ethno-natialist
you mean secular and multicultural by design compared to specifically arab nationalist Baathists?

are not socialist
still haven't come up with an answer to that whole unions, workers councils and workers state part

destined for failure
unlike Assaf who is on the up..

I'm self righteous? Jesus christ

Daniel Butler
Daniel Butler

poal.me/o0v5zo

Question: are the Kurds imperialist

John Anderson
John Anderson

Thought you were anti israeli mate
Wharr did aye say thaught mee
matey?

you mean secular and multicultural by design com>>2931038
pared to specifically arab nationalist Baathists
The Syrian government is secular and multi cultural. The Kurdish state is ethno nationalist movement like all the Kurdish separtist movements.

where did I say this
right here:

Also talking about propaganda like it’s a dirty word and not something every single political entity engages in, particularly communists. Do you even fucking agitprop bro
you have said so many things which show you have some weird pro ISIS leanings

I'm as pro-isis as I am pro kurdish ethno nationalist separists. my point is they are just westerm creations made to destabilize the middle east.

Samuel Harris
Samuel Harris

Wharr did aye say thaught mee
So you are pro Israel then?

The Syrian government is secular and multi cultural.
even though they are nominally arab nationalists and Baathism is specifically an arab nationalist socialist ideology?

The Kurdish state is ethno nationalist movement
one shred of evidence please

like all the Kurdish separtist movements.

only they are all very different. Your ability to see them as one homogenous whole shows how truly blind you are

and me talking about how everyone engages in propoganda is me "admitting i am propogandizing" you use the word admit like fox news or the guardian or something. I am propogandizing as much as you are, only im not reffering to someone who works for Assad's cousin as a source like you (or your anti kurd comrades) are.

my point is they are just westerm creations made to destabilize the middle east.
Okay cool show me any proof at all the Kurdish movement was created by the west in order to destablise the middle east. Note, not that the Kurds have worked with the west, but that the whole thing was created i.e. is "a creation of" the west

I see you've dodged the question of unions, councils and worker power yet again

too many "buzzwords"?

I'm as pro-isis as I am pro kurdish ethno nationalist separists
so you are as much a religious fundamentalist as you are a socialist. Well that figures

Gavin Garcia
Gavin Garcia

So you are pro Israel then?
Lol. Are you anti-israeli mate?

I see you've dodged the question of unions, councils and worker power yet again

Give me the proof first.

Jackson Fisher
Jackson Fisher

only they are all very different. Your ability to see them as one homogenous whole shows how truly blind you are

And how ironic you kept making a big deal about the chastity thing and when you finally posted the link it was an article about Iranian Kurds from 2006.

Aiden James
Aiden James

yes i am anti israel

proof
here is an explanation of the kurdish system which is consistent with many other first hand accounts

who are members of the PKK

mesopotamia.coop/introduction-to-the-political-and-social-structures-of-democratic-autonomy-in-rojava/

Sebastian Ortiz
Sebastian Ortiz

here is an explanation of the kurdish system which is consistent with many other first hand accounts

Where?

Logan Young
Logan Young

mesopotamia.coop/introduction-to-the-political-and-social-structures-of-democratic-autonomy-in-rojava/

Carson Barnes
Carson Barnes

Where?
Nevermind. Thought the link was for the second message.

Grayson Roberts
Grayson Roberts

libcom.org/library/rojava-reality-rhetoric-gilles-dauvé-tl

also this which is even critical of the kurds

Carson Johnson
Carson Johnson

Since at the moment and in the current hard economic situation, one of the main tasks done by the communes has been collecting, exchanging and delivering food, people think of the communes as something like charities like the the Iranian relief foundation or Justice Shares.

This doesn't sound like a real state guy.

“In Tel Tamer, 110 communes were founded. At first, people were not familiar with communes. I remember that there were bribes in the communes.”
And this is just at the commune level. I wonder what kind of bribes the shotcallers are getting from the cia and to do what?

This administrator of the Movement for a Democratic Society,… thinks that the social revolution is more intellectual, rather than material;

Epic material reality matey.

believes that human kind lived in the villages like that. A.A says that they want to apply and institutionalise that primitive society model in the modern form.

Yeah this sounds destined for success hippy communes in the me warzone, what could go wrong?

For instance, formerly, polygamy was very common, but at the moment any men doing such a crime would be sentenced to one year of prison and pay 100,000 Syrian pounds
100,000 Syrian pound
Syrian pound

Hmmmmmmmm…..

Look, couple points, sounds like from what they claim they have good intentions, but anyone can claim anythong. Obviously not an unbiased source and even if they were you can only right about what you know about and many things we know about lead to suspicion of unseen shenanigans going on behind closed doors.

Second, even if that article was 100% the whole story, these goofy fucks aren't going to last one second after the usa pulls out. Maybe assad will still let them play happy hippy village green society, because honestly who gives a fuck. Probably won't be having free reign over the oil fields, but why do anarch-primivitist villagers need oil fields amyways?

also this which is even critical of the kurds

I'll get back to you later on this one.

Adam Fisher
Adam Fisher

Look, couple points, sounds like from what they claim they have good intentions, but anyone can claim anythong.
And what about their actions? What about their open collaboration with US enemies like Assad, Russia, and Hezbollah? What about their direct confrontations with US proxies like Turkey, Al Queda, and the FSA? Fears that Rojava could fall into the US orbit may be justified, but unironically thinking that the whole thing was a CIA front from day one is blatantly at odds with the facts.
Second, even if that article was 100% the whole story, these goofy fucks aren't going to last one second after the usa pulls out
90% of the already small contingent of US troops has already pulled out. There are only 200 of them left, and relations between Damascus and Rojava have been steadily improving.

Lincoln Morales
Lincoln Morales

Usa still has an airbase there.

Spooked by the prospect of an imminent US withdrawal, the Kurds of northern Syria (Rojava) have expressed a readiness to negotiate with the regime to secure some level of cultural autonomy should the regime retake the territory. Striking a deal with Damascus could prevent a feared Turkish offensive.

The Syrian Democratic Council (SDC), negotiating on behalf of the Rojava Kurds, has said the regime appears unwilling to compromise. The regime meanwhile has accused the US of trying to sabotage negotiations.

“America and others will leave Syria as they have left other areas since their presence is illegitimate and rejected,” Ayyoub told reporters.

“As for what is related to the so-called SDF, the rationale of the state and citizenship stipulates for the sons of the homeland to stand by their state and army, irrespective of the existence of differing political visions, but it shouldn’t reach the point of carrying arms against the army dedicated to preserving the security of the homeland and citizen,” he said.

The army will “liberate” areas east of Euphrates if the SDF shows it is unwilling to pursue reconciliation and heed the authority of the state, he added.

General Bagheri, the visiting Iranian chief of staff, told reports Tehran is prepared to stand by the Syrian government in its efforts to reassert control over every inch of Syrian territory.

rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/180320191

I was reading a more recent article than this earlier but the gist is the same, the reintegration of the kurdish controlled areas as a non-autonomous region isn't up for debate for syria.

rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/230520191

Washington does not support Kurdish independence from Syria, instead envisioning their future as part of “a democratic, peaceful government” in Damascus, US Syria envoy James Jeffrey told a press briefing on Wednesday

“We don’t have a political future that we offer for [Kurds],” Jeffrey told members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“The political future we offer for them is the political future we offer for everybody in Syria” – a stake in “a democratic, peaceful government” based in Damascus, he added.

The civilian administration which controls Rojava – the Kurdish region of northern Syria – has said it wants to preserve its local councils, forces, and languages and is not seeking independence from Damascus.

The Syrian Democratic Council (SDC), the political arm of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) which governs the autonomous region, has published a set of conditions the regime must meet for it to reintegrate.

Among them is a call for a “democratic republic” in which representatives of the local administration sit in the Syrian parliament and participate in the Damascus government.

The SDC also calls for official recognition of its flag to fly side-by-side with the Syrian banner and to allow the Kurds to maintain their own diplomatic relations with the outside world. >90% of the already small contingent of US troops has already pulled out.

Wyatt Ortiz
Wyatt Ortiz

Your post doesn’t demonstrate your point or disprove mine. If the Kurds were a CIA front from day one, then why have they pursued policies against US interests?

Jacob James
Jacob James

This doesn't sound like a real state guy.
define a real state guy. How does providing public services mean it isn't a real state? Peoples perception of the facts does not change them.

And this is just at the commune level. I wonder what kind of bribes the shotcallers are getting from the cia and to do what?
are you trying to tell me nobody in the Assad government is bribed, nobody in the USSR was bribed? Corruption is something that happens under every political system. For one in the middle of a civil war it really isn't surprising or notable. Venezuela is also pretty corrupt, do you condemn them as not socialist or anti imperialist? I don't.

Epic material reality matey.
again you are looking at basically the philosophical musings of one of the leadership, not how that translates on the ground, which is that power is diffuse between a system of councils, but also in an overarching administration, so effectively a bicamaral state

Yeah this sounds destined for success hippy communes in the me warzone, what could go wrong?
going pretty well as it is, they are in arguably the most successful stage of their struggle

"hippy communes" you are so desperate to try and paint it as some anarchist fuckfest but it just isn't. What is hippy about not taking sexual partners? Its hilarious you try to paint them as somehow soft when they are out fighting a war and you are just at home jerking it to Zig Forums

Hmmmmmmmm…..
what is lost in translation…

Obviously not an unbiased source
no but look around, such as the other article i sent you, which is critical, heavily, of the kurds but still accepts the basics, you originally wanted evidence on how the society is actually structured, you won't find very many that disagree on the actual structure of the society. What they disagree on or say differently is the scale to which the new system has penetrated the old and emerged from it. None of them are in doubt that this is a revolution that came from a system of local councils and communes arming themselves and taking control when the state exited, what they disagree on is the extent to which these councils actually control the economy. Whats clear is that in some areas there is very little and in other areas it is more developed, but it does exist and is a system that is growing rapidly, rather than collapsing, that is the tendency is for it to become more so under the control of the new system rather than less.The fact that it isn't all encompassing yet is a tactical choice undoubtedly born from their roots as a Maoist insurgency. Its a protracted peoples war, you have to understand your limitiations, how much territory you can feasibly and safely control, the extent to which you can revolutionise the territoty under your control. Slowly slowly catchy monkey. If you have to fight an internal war the external war is very difficult.

aren't going to last one second after the usa pulls out.
3 million highly militarised newly liberated middle easterners who have spent the last 20 years at war and extremely battle hardened vs a Turkish army invading what Assad considers to be Syrian land. All hinges on Assads reaction, if he backed them up, they would win, if he did not intervene either way, there would be a long bloody conflict probably without end, considering the kurds would just revert to guerilla war and they now have a huge base of support in the region compared to most guerrilla wars and the other ones still managed. I think it is unlikely that Assad would not intervene. He could strike a deal with Turkey to push the Kurds out, "solving" (but it wouldnt) the Kurd problem for both of them, again, I find this unlikely, Assad isn't a madman, his record is, despite my critisms, okay. He has just fought a civil war, i highly doubt he wants to fight another one, it probably wouldn't be very popular in the rest of Syria either and definitely not in Kurdistan. At this point he is, rightfully, trying to cling to power. Perhaps he will want to assert that refound power, but is also probably aware of the limitations of his own state.

Maybe assad will still let them play happy hippy village green society, because honestly who gives a fuck.
you do apparently??

"hippy happy" "anarcho-primitist" please so its a CIA front of ruthless dangerous separatists but also a hippy commune. Sounds like the classic portrayal of the left by reactionaries, at the same time beta babies but also dangerous terrorists

James Reed
James Reed

Nonetheless, the kurds have pretty much proven themselves to be pretty much the only beacon of anti capitalism in the middle East. While I agree that having the US aid them is a bad idea, you have to remember the Kurdish point of view that it's essentially the only thing keeping Turkey from coming in and wiping out the Kurds. But I do agree that the US should nonetheless fuck off right away. Also I doubt Assad is going to bring about socialism any time soon either as he has pursued very liberal economic choices. However I do support Assad government on the pretense of anti imperialism, and Assad has still been very friendly to the Kurds. I still think Rojava is one of the best paths towards socialism, and many of the local middle eastern communist parties and anarchist organizations agree. I think we should all stay VERY much critical of Rojava, but still keep an eye on their path towards socialism.

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Bentley Allen
Bentley Allen

bump

Benjamin Reyes
Benjamin Reyes

Another question for you anti kurd tards.

If the Kurds are the puppets of the US and Israel how come Germany of all places has previously banned Kurdish symbols and flags?

Christian Sullivan
Christian Sullivan

appeasing erdogan so he stops the migrants

Jacob King
Jacob King

God bless China flag poster for articulating what I couldn't manage to just phrase correctly.

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Ayden Lopez
Ayden Lopez

not enough pixels to actually see they guys face, is there a way to get a better picture

Alexander Sullivan
Alexander Sullivan

Yeah by reading the article
meduza.io/en/lion/2015/11/18/stalin-is-back-this-time-as-a-kurdish-military-commander

Ayden Taylor
Ayden Taylor

According to one research paper, mustaches with drooping sides signify a conservative, nationalist bent, left-wingers favor mustaches like Stalin (cnn.com/2012/11/29/world/meast/mustache-transplants-middle-east/index.html)

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Ryder Wright
Ryder Wright

oh right, thanks
So the political stache is a must ?, should we try to make leftist politicians to shave a Joe ?

Jaxson Young
Jaxson Young

Add Maduro to the list

Nicholas Roberts
Nicholas Roberts

Erdogan is stopping the migrants
Germany wants to stop them
Lmao you people will say literally anything

Evan Cox
Evan Cox

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Aiden Gonzalez
Aiden Gonzalez

He serves as a commander in the armed forces of the Barzani sultanate and leads the PAK party which is hardly leftist.
And he is a true galaxy brain who claims that Iran supports ISIS.
ekurd.net/kurdish-pak-iran-islamic-state-2016-06-30

Jaxon Mitchell
Jaxon Mitchell

the armed forces of the Barzani sultanate
That's a shame tbh
Where's the argument here?

Nathaniel Myers
Nathaniel Myers

bumpity bump

pro ISIS Baath fags btfo ITT

Joseph Long
Joseph Long

bump

Jaxson Scott
Jaxson Scott

It's an imperialist proxy you dumbfuck, look

What is the situation now that ISIS are gone?
US uses them to destabilize Syria
How will they fit into the new Syria?
Hopefully working with Assad and stop fucking around with America, doesn'T seem like it with recent news
Will Erdogan stop throwing his shit around?
No
What steps do they need to take to ensure against a smooth transition to socialism and communism?
Firstly establish a dictatorship of the proletariat, with a democratic centralist party in wich people can organize and ensuring socialist construction of economy, with worker controlled state industries
so why then does Assad ally with them and pay for their healthcare?
Because Assad is actually not le ebil dictator and tries to get any allies he can against ISIS

All the fucking damage control in this thread from Rojava apologist. He is such a fucking brainlet lmao hahah realize that Anarchists will never amount to anything and that Rojava is a imperialist proxy

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Jose Rogers
Jose Rogers

The only pro-ISIS Ba'ath fags are the Iraqi Ba'ath remnant which allied with ISIS against the Iraqi government.
After ISIS was defeated in Iraq, their leader who was Saddams right hand man is now praising Saudi Arabia and calling for an alliance with them to destroy Iran.

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