I've noticed Zig Forums tends to adopt ideologies as if a sort of fad or,...

Sebastian Rivera
Sebastian Rivera

I've noticed Zig Forums tends to adopt ideologies as if a sort of fad or, frankly, as a meme. We've had Hoxhaism, anarcho-communism/Stirnerism, and now we have Marxism-Leninism/Stalinism as the native meme ideology. They've all tended to go through stages, though, like so:

"Devil's Advocate" Stage: People are willing to defend the meme ideology, partly to troll, partly just for argument's sake, partly out of slight sympathy for the view. At this stage, the ideology has meme potential but hasn't yet become a meme ideology here.

"Breaking Point" Stage: At this stage, the ideology has some actual adherents, but many of the more devoted ones are still in the process of learning and only occasionally challenge the board consensus of the waning ideology. There's a gradual push of the few remaining adherents of the previous ideology out the door in favor of something else, but this something else remains ambiguous until there are more resolute challenges and, finally, the ideology reaches its third stage.

"Hegemony" Stage: The ideology dominates Zig Forums and has established or altered previous consensuses on many issues, though rarely all. There are only occasional challenges to it, and, generally, adherents of the meme ideology are also relatively good posters.

"Runts of the Litter" Stage: Most of the knowledgeable or otherwise intelligent posters have either left this board (or the political left entirely) or arrived at a more stable/non-meme ideology. Those that remain tend to be less able to argue, more prone to stupid outbursts, etc. Ideological hegemony is maintained more through numbers and board history than the quality of the posters.

Based on the quality of our tankies, it seems like we're reaching the terminal stage of "Marxism-Leninism" as our meme ideology. My question is: what do you think will be Zig Forums's next meme ideology?

My vote is for Maoism or something related like Third-Worldism, guessing solely from the sort of posts and leanings of our current userbase.

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Angel Butler
Angel Butler

This never stopped being a Hoxhaist board.

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Josiah Lopez
Josiah Lopez

My question is: what do you think will be Zig Forums's next meme ideology?
Obviously determinism duh.

Colton Davis
Colton Davis

I will never change my allegiance because I’m not an urbanite bugman

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Easton Sullivan
Easton Sullivan

Not an ML, but marxism-leninism isn't a meme ideology. It is the most popular here and it probably will fade out as left communism and anarchism did when they were the most popular ideologies, yes, but that doesn't make it a meme.
The actual memes are shit like stirner or nazbol, to which the amount of unironic niggas that follow that shit must be next to 0 in this board.

Luke Hall
Luke Hall

You say Maoism is the next stage. But what is Hoxhaism if not the next stage of Maoism? The Bunkers are come first, the bunkers go last. The bunkers are eternal

Luke Martinez
Luke Martinez

Stirner still has value as the ultimate edgelord, i don't think egotism is incompatible with communism. Just depends how you divine what is best for you ego, which is why it really means jack shit.

Thomas Foster
Thomas Foster

Stirner's egotism is a take on how to become a Satanist without even realizing it. Perhaps he is even better than a real Satanist and was into the occult? Ego is a bad thing unless you want to play with LHP magick and get yourself hurt. Bugmen like yourself (commies) are not compatible with egotism because that would basically mean that you are something more than a replacable shell or drone.

Colton Wright
Colton Wright

what do you think will be Zig Forums's next meme ideology?
Fascism.

Jaxon Murphy
Jaxon Murphy

calling M-L a meme ideology
calling M-L Stalinism
talking like Hoxhaism and Maoism aren't part of the same thing
who's the memester now?

Andrew Flores
Andrew Flores

It isn't that "Marxism-Leninism" is in and of itself a meme ideology. It just is a meme ideology for this board, in the sense of "political fad memed to death." I was going to add something about that, but I thought my point was clear, given that anarcho-communism and Hoxhaism also have a history off this board, outside of memes.

calling M-L Stalinism
"Marxism-Leninism" is somewhat ambiguous, since it was used as the name for the official ideology even after the repudiation of Stalin by Khrushchev. "Leninism" also had a blip of popularity here, ages ago. The MLs on this board constantly post about Stalin, meme Stalin, and defend Stalin, though, so, for lack of anything better, "Stalinism."

Ian Bell
Ian Bell

i'm surprised there was never a wave of council communists shit posting

Hunter Ross
Hunter Ross

Hey I might be high af but check this out.
The challenge of selling socialism to people living inder capitalism is all about branding and how people asses their material conditions.

If you take one look at the things people are posting on Instagram, everything is all highly saturated and pastel colors. No soviet grey raw concrete.
Neoliberalism turns people in to adult babies. Big ol babies. who love rainbows.

So here's the idea. We do a planned economy, but with special care to make everything really colorful and shit.
We can call it socialism with Wes Anderson characteristics ,or whatever.

What do you think?
Peace

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Aaron Martin
Aaron Martin

If you take one look at the things people are posting on Instagram, everything is all highly saturated and pastel colors. No soviet grey raw concrete.
the people want pastel colors eh?

WELL I GOT YOUR FUCKEN PASTEL COLORS RIGHT'A HERE

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Jayden Ramirez
Jayden Ramirez

Perfect

Jonathan Miller
Jonathan Miller

You missed the wave of Bookchin posters, OP. Though they kind of got forced out by the board staff prematurely. I almost got memed into reading Bookchin myself.

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Daniel Flores
Daniel Flores

True, I did completely forget about the "read Bookchin" people. I'd say that Bookchinism's development was arrested at a late stage 1 in favor of the anarcho-communism trend, since Bookchinism never succeeded in challenging the board consensus or reaching ideological hegemony, even when "read Bookchin" was spammed endlessly as a meme. Had I remembered it, though, I would have mentioned it in the stage 1 description, as an example of an ideology with meme potential that didn't reach stage 2.

Camden Howard
Camden Howard

The Meme Ideology Cycle
NAZBOL WILL NEVER DIE

Isaiah Walker
Isaiah Walker

G/acc and lesbianrx will be this board's next meme ideology if you all have any sense.

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Wyatt Jenkins
Wyatt Jenkins

degism will be the next meme ideology

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Jonathan Reyes
Jonathan Reyes

Neo-china arrives from the future comrade! uwu

Ryder Gonzalez
Ryder Gonzalez

CHINA IS NAZBOL

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Oliver Long
Oliver Long

not being marxist-stirnerist in 2019
Disgusting

Gavin Carter
Gavin Carter

The big brain option is to not subscribe to any ideology and just pick what you like from different ones.

Carter Collins
Carter Collins

The next "meme" ideology that will become dominant will either be Cockshott or Xi circlejerk

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Michael Robinson
Michael Robinson

Hoxhaism
people here were never serious about that.

anarcho-communism/Stirnerism
Unfortunately this was a real fad here.

Marxism-Leninism/Stalinism
People are serious about this here now, and those who are are unlikely to change IF they have done their reading.

Gavin Ross
Gavin Ross

imo cockshott's cybercommunism has been incorporated into ML here

Nathan Turner
Nathan Turner

Yeah probably this, with constant debates about why China has not started cybernetics planning.

There's already /pol/ and /fascism/ for that.
Zig Forums will always be in opposition, so even Nazbol has way more chance.

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Jason Peterson
Jason Peterson

Damn that pics so comfy

Benjamin Collins
Benjamin Collins

Kill yourself you ADHD suffering spastic.

Adam Baker
Adam Baker

ML
meme

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Evan Nelson
Evan Nelson

Well I don't see what reason there is to complain. Stalin's dope.

Joseph Rogers
Joseph Rogers

I have come to realize i am simply an idealist who really likes stalin and so my mind is impenetrable. I view hoxha to simply be apostle of great stalin who himself will surely return one day to shoot every liberal and cast them into the eternal gulag.
It must be, for he knew the kruschevites would betray him, and he let it happen. Stalin must have intended the USSR to collapse, to simply act as a brief beacon. The productive forces of capitalism are not fully developed yet.

Ryan Moore
Ryan Moore

ML is probably the most common type of communist current IRL.
Nazbol as a meme was a little bit more popular before, but I think it might come back as an actual ideology.
There were also the bordiga posters
the nihilist threads (we still have them, but without theory)
the sniffing man threads
and anarchists threads lol
also this

Hunter Diaz
Hunter Diaz

ML is probably the most common type of communist current IRL.
Actually, it's Eurocommunism or Trotskyism or even Maoism, depending of the country.

Parker Anderson
Parker Anderson

Eurocommunism is about as relevant to socialism as Fourierism

Luis Smith
Luis Smith

eurocommunism
not communism
trotskyism
not a single current, more like fifty

Zachary Russell
Zachary Russell

Name me one current that might accomplish something? On large scale there is Juche gang, Deng gang, Castro gang and that's pretty much it. I hope you honestly don't believe any of them will accomplish something. Unironically the closest I see one of them achieving communism is China.

Jonathan Smith
Jonathan Smith

I'm not defending eurocommunism but most of the biggests (self-declared) communist parties in Europe are eurocoms and before that they were all the main ML parties at the time of USSR.

Colton Thomas
Colton Thomas

I fucking hope not but I sense a current in that direction. Although it will be amusing to see the board try to reconcile the contradictions of "Trotsky was wrong! You can build socialism in a single poor country!" with "You can't just start building socialism in a single poor country! You have to build the productive forces first by cucking out to billionaires!"

Camden Johnson
Camden Johnson

sortition is also having more of a presence

Parker White
Parker White

Defending capitalist China is the most retarded shit that tankies do.

Luis Howard
Luis Howard

Don't doubt the 100-Year Plan

chinadaily.com.cn/a/201805/05/WS5aecc4d8a3105cdcf651c16a.html

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Jacob Bell
Jacob Bell

This board's De Leon phase was the best two weeks of my life.

Camden Phillips
Camden Phillips

Dengoidism has already taken by reddit though. And if I know anything better I really hope that this board and r/communism never merge like r/td and /pol/ did. That sub is straight cancer with it’s Chinese imperialist defense squad.

Henry Cox
Henry Cox

Chinese imperialist
Non existent.
But I have to agree that /r/communism is bad. I've seen once a guy claim that China should be praised because they have a list of top 50 richest people, and the list has a nickname of a death list. Then we have people who think the soviet famines were literally a fabrication by the Nazis. The sub sidebar says we are against "bourgeoise free speech". The thing looks like one giant parody.

Joseph Allen
Joseph Allen

But Marxism-Leninism is a science not a meme ideology….

Jack Howard
Jack Howard

My vote is for Maoism or something related like Third-Worldism, guessing solely from the sort of posts and leanings of our current userbase.
Mao was a demonstrably retarded politician.

Ryan Walker
Ryan Walker

bruh

Jose Gray
Jose Gray

Science is a meme ideology.

Blake Anderson
Blake Anderson

Memes aside ideology and personal theory has to evolve. The worst thing that can happen to leftists is to cling to the old marxist-leninist dogma that has been proven to fail historically.

Grayson Taylor
Grayson Taylor

A lot has changed since then, you could go straight to cybernetics nowadays. The main problem with it nowadays is its lack of ability to combat the security state.

Dominic Green
Dominic Green

Can't wait for the "read capital" ideology to pop up tbh

Jacob Murphy
Jacob Murphy

what the hell is this image?

Jack Collins
Jack Collins

This board is going to be overrun by nazbol converts from pol, I guarantee it

Austin Rogers
Austin Rogers

day 1000+ of the inevitable takeover

Ian Scott
Ian Scott

If anything, we're even further away. Not only is /pol/ here smaller, they also interact much less with us.

Nathaniel Russell
Nathaniel Russell

It's from right-wing Hong Kong protest.

Andrew Kelly
Andrew Kelly

Historical note, Howard Scott the technocrat namefag who's been here since the beginning of time's perception of the board ideology in the beginning was that it was omnibenevolent ML with an openness to engaging with any and all anticapitalist ideologies

Dylan Adams
Dylan Adams

implying Marxist-Stirnerism is dead

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James Wright
James Wright

This is my wallpaper now, can't wait for my boss to do his monthly computer check (yes he's afraid we're torrenting shit while we work, which is true btw) and not see the statue lmao

Parker Martinez
Parker Martinez

I'm turning into a Dengist, Mao went full retard after Stalin died, and I agree with Deng on that the cat doesn't matter as long as it catches the mice.

Connor James
Connor James

The problem is that they didn't integrate Cybernetics when shit was escalating

Nathan Sanders
Nathan Sanders

based and dengpilled, see the truth comrade

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Zachary Miller
Zachary Miller

It's not that almost everyone changed ideology like they were a fad, it has more to do with a different influx of users leaving and coming as soon as moderation went to shit. Tankies came in, people with self awareness left.

Levi Parker
Levi Parker

Off to the cancerous land of leftpol with you

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Aaron Richardson
Aaron Richardson

people with self awareness left
So why're you still here?

Cooper Jones
Cooper Jones

people with self awareness left

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Jaxon Thompson
Jaxon Thompson

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Caleb Carter
Caleb Carter

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Liam Perez
Liam Perez

lose mit einem o

Jaxson Green
Jaxson Green

Bruh moment

Gabriel Gomez
Gabriel Gomez

The next meme ideology will be cybernetic Marxism.
Except it won't be a meme. It will be the last ideology of history.

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Brody Garcia
Brody Garcia

Truth. I would leave but there's no where else but reddit to discuss socialist politics online. I miss the fuck out of the 2017 period of the board when there would be actual debate with right wingers and anarchists, actual discussion of economic theory (which has almost disappeared) and actually good memes.

Now you can get banned for imperialism for calling out Stalin for cucking out to US imperialism.

Brandon Russell
Brandon Russell

why not simply support amazon so that they can accumulate all wealth, fully develop the productive forces, and bring capitalism to a conclusion?

This is what bothers me. I dont think any socialism can last before this, as it requires very strong will on the part of the leader. We see it is possible temporarily, but with out the historical conditions for it to be automatic and self sustaining (just as we can never go back to feudalism now), with out the base line of possibilities to still fall on it with out it being a struggle, it will inevitably collapse.

James Richardson
James Richardson

unironically this. idk why people think they don't pretty much support eachother when you're talking working class folks

Tyler Evans
Tyler Evans

Sounds like pic related.
The argument being that Walmart and Amazon have already developed a logistics chain which acts internally like a globe spanning planned economy, that dwarfs the soviet union at its peak.

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Aaron Hughes
Aaron Hughes

People here need to learn to think for themselves. I was an anarchist before browsing leftypol, an anarchist while browsing leftypol, and am now an anarchist still after being away for a time. That's not to say I'm right, I've learned things from this board. Like that the USSR wasn't so bad and at its worse the US is no better. But my anarchism itself was never sufficiently challenged within or without leftypol. In fact, the biggest critique of anarchism I've encountered it has been from within the movement. How exactly am I as an anarchist supposed to build a movement out of pure negation. Anarchists are good at telling the world what they hate and generally less formed at expressing what it is exactly we want to build.

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Mason Brooks
Mason Brooks

I like lots of different far-left tendencies. I feel like we gotta get socialism(or something socialist-like at the very least) and then duke it out over which variety we go with.

Kayden Morales
Kayden Morales

fuck those tankies, ect that want to eliminate recreational drug use(usually by imprisoning/killing users) tho. that shit reactionary AF tbqh

Kayden Scott
Kayden Scott

Anarchism ignores class struggle and Historic Materialism sweatie

Matthew Hughes
Matthew Hughes

Not them, but I feel like there are marxists that are pretty much anarchists and vice versa. I'm pretty uneducated tbh, but it seems overly dogmatic to say there cant be a synthesis.

Eli Turner
Eli Turner

But I have to agree that /r/communism is bad … The thing looks like one giant parody.
My impression of /r/communism is that it's either run as the longest-running office gag at the FBI headquarters or it's just some mentally-ill person who feels powerless IRL and roleplays as an internet communist dictator online
People here need to learn to think for themselves.
I find the ML stuff to be the most interesting for me in terms of reading their writing and history and so on, and I've been looking around for an org to join, but I have tended to hang around anarchists or demsocs IRL and have preferred to organize with them because MLs I've encountered have tended to be… uhh… strange.

Or it's not the people per se but the groups. Maybe I haven't found the right formation yet but my perception is that many of them are frankly just abusive towards their members. It borders on cult-like in the most extreme circumstances and I think this is sad and depressing. I have periodically heard horror stories from people I know IRL who left ML groups where they talk about being treated in the most savage or mean-spirited fashion, and subjected to verbal abuse and so on. I met one woman who left one who said it "literally ruined my life."

If I was right wing (and I'm not), and I wanted to attack Leninism, I wouldn't say "Stalin is a bad guy / he shot a lot of people" or whatever. Or like "oh the poor landlords." That doesn't actually undermine the ideology and might actually give it a fearsome reputation. It's these stories I've heard from former members that I would broadcast, but liberals and the modern right has forgotten all of this, but if you read anti-communist literature from the Cold War, they did know about all of this stuff and really emphasized bringing on defectors from ML groups.

Like I think I get why this happens to Leninist groups and it's because they're trying to follow a theory designed to turn some of the most beaten-down and exploited people in the world into a really fucking scary and mass-scale human weapon, so there's this breaking down of the self and so on. Maoism basically requires everyone be indoctrinated via self-crit because it was designed to allow independent guerrilla cells to operate deep in the mountains of rural China without contact from the headquarters, and they had to know how to develop plans on the fly that would fit with the larger political strategy. The ideology served a specific function and a purpose.

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Angel Evans
Angel Evans

I dont even understand what you are trying to say

Camden Reyes
Camden Reyes

It's all good, except the LARPing Bolshevik historical re-enactment kiddies, who wear a Ushanka, and are obsessed with the aesthetics of the soviet union.

Asher Torres
Asher Torres

I don't get why internet leftists love brutalism so much.
Maybe you guys are stuck in soulless American suburbs where nothing ever happens and you are dependent on your car and desire something else, but I personally associate brutalism with crumbling European suburbs where also nothing happens (except drug dealing), and you are also dependent on cars (or long public transport routes).
As socialists we should be more ambitious than this. I want 19th-century bourgeois architecture for everyone. An Art Nouveau revival. Social housing units looking like the Hundertwasserhaus. Statues and parks everywhere like in Vienna. Whatever, I want anything but lame imitations of Le Corbusier. Something like Karl-Marx-Hof, why not, but no meme "unités d'habitation" please.

It wouldn't make much sense. n1x is an anarchist and somewhat sympathetic to socialists, but she still want markets to accelerate the multiplication of genders.
G/acc is infinitely more interesting than corporate-backed liberal idpol, but in the end, most people are comfortable with their normie genders, and a sophistication of sex reassignment technology won't put food on their plate, make housing free and so on.

Based. We should have a cycling Capital general tbh. I know there is one on /marx/ but it's kinda dead and Ismael is a filthy Dengist, I don't trust him.

I wish it would be something like cyber-situationism, even if this has the potential to become a huge cringe-fest.

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Logan Rodriguez
Logan Rodriguez

Brutalist buildings creeped me out as a kid. And a sense of wrongness that I can't quite explain.

Joseph Taylor
Joseph Taylor

Also watching them blow up is cathartic.
I'll probably watch some one youtube right now.

Caleb Roberts
Caleb Roberts

I don't get why internet leftists love brutalism so much.
crumbling European suburbs
Well a lot of this is just meme stuff, and the crumbliness is what happens when you don't take care of it. I love brutalism though but I recognize it had its time and place. The important thing to really gather from brutalism is to recognize that they're designed to be comfy on the inside and are built from the inside out. Also why a lot of art museums are built in the brutalist style – the emphasis on interior space and form highlights the art on the walls.

Never stayed in Khrushchyovka, but when I visited Honolulu I stayed in this amazing concrete hotel tower and it was quite comfy and dead quiet inside – great way to block the sound. A lot of brutalism in Hawaii when it was all getting built up to service the post-war tourist economy (which itself was enabled by all the construction in World War II).

Brutalism is horrible for the climate though because it uses extremely carbon-intensive methods to produce all the cement.

I see it as similar to gothic architecture. You wouldn't think so but both are really blocky and kind of overpowering and grotesque, and gothic architecture became later associated with the horror genre like haunted houses and so on; brutalism meanwhile is now associated with dystopian sci-fi movies and so on.

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Henry Rogers
Henry Rogers

The thing about Marxism-Leninism on this board is that it was pretty much the old BO tried to encourage more of it and purged a lot of the other ideologies a while ago.

Jaxon Roberts
Jaxon Roberts

brutalism comes from the French word "bru" meaning raw cement.
the main point of brutalism was to make the material used for building visible, to be honest about what it is made of.

the massive construction style produces good noise isolation and a calm subconsciousness because it looks sturdy.

the ugly brutalist buildings where mostly do to economical optimization, and not a inherent particularity of brutalism.

what came after brutalism in terms of building styles was mostly corporate-neutral, which is difficult to describe on account of having little features beyond dullness.

I find your proposal to revive historic styles a bit too much a denial of the future and the new, as in nothing new can be invented and all that is left, is to repeat what has already been done.

I consider brutalism to be the last coherent architectural style and should therefore be the starting point for developing something new, i would keep the material honestly aspect, but include more building materials then just cement, with the rule that it should be visible what material is used, and no afterthought fake decorative add-ons.

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Thomas Bailey
Thomas Bailey

Determinism isn't a political ideology, Tf?

Charles James
Charles James

This.

Camden Barnes
Camden Barnes

Imagine having an ideology at all.

The core tenets of both Anarchism and Communism are very synergistic and I think having a strict adherence to either ideology is only going to end badly.

Ideally though I think people should take an anarchist approach and not admitting that just makes you a retard.

People should act for themselves and come together out of their own needs and wants; you take what is necessary from any ideology.

Otherwise you are just larping.

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Gabriel Reyes
Gabriel Reyes

Imagine having an ideology at all.
People that think they don't have a ideology are the most ideological.
Ideally though I think people should take an anarchist approach and not admitting that just makes you a retard.
Insulting people for not agreeing with you isn't argument
you take what is necessary from any ideology.
generator.leftypedia.org/

Xavier Phillips
Xavier Phillips

The core tenets of both Anarchism and Communism are very synergistic
Anarchism rejects the dictatorship of the proletariat; not very "synergistic" if one rejects the most important part of the other.
you take what is necessary from any ideology.
In practice this usually just serves as an excuse to go shopping in the ideological supermarket and make yourself the most special-est snowflake.

Adam Wright
Adam Wright

In practice this usually just serves as an excuse to go shopping in the ideological supermarket
Which would make then a situationist bringing then right back into the Marxist stream

Wyatt Williams
Wyatt Williams

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Logan Morgan
Logan Morgan

Ideology is kind of unavoidable.
The influences and social pressures acting upon an individual eventually force individuals to develop an ideology, whether they are cognitively aware of it or not.

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Evan Powell
Evan Powell

fuck off

Christian Foster
Christian Foster

If that happens I’ll probably die of a stroke.

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Elijah Peterson
Elijah Peterson

People should act for themselves and come together out of their own needs and wants; you take what is necessary from any ideology.
When people take this approach, from what I see, they end up finding the easiest possible approach to the safest short term gains.

Benjamin Green
Benjamin Green

That lenin cap on too tight, retard?

Landon Edwards
Landon Edwards

My point was that anarchism, at it's core, is anti Materialist and ignores class struggle, you respond with "there are Anarchists who are marxists". Even if there are anarchsits who call themselves marxists, doesn'T change the fact that anarchism, by its definition, ignores historical and dialectical materialism and class struggle, since the creation of a socialist state is born out of class struggle and is needed for class struggle, to surpress the bourgeois class. State is just a tool for class dictatorship.

Class societies move that way, after Capitalism, comes Socialism, because the contradictions of capital and labour result in a revolution, and in Socialism the Capital struggles with the Proletariat only the Proletariat is ruling. After years and years of Socialism capitalist class is being abolished completely and the class society comes to an end; Communism. Anarchist ignore this and make it about oppression, things, like the state are inherently "oppresive" because of their "authoritarian nature" instead of the material conditions a capitalist class society provides wich a state is needed for.

Carter Nelson
Carter Nelson

what a fucking shitty strawman argument, no one says that you can build socialism in a single "poor" country, we are saying that you can build socialism in a single country, but not if the productive forces are underdeveloped, that is the basics of dialectical materialism and all of you denying this just proves that you haven't read one single bit of marx

Joseph Evans
Joseph Evans

meh sorry, kinda going through some shit so my head's kinda fucked atm, lol

I just wanna live in a socialist society where I can do my drugs tbh, haha. Libertarian Marxism maybe? Anarcho-Communism has a better ring to it tho imo.

Ayden Brown
Ayden Brown

this is the most anarchist post I've seen.
Stop doing drugs and live in reality, read some theory and joing the communist party in your area. Wont Change a thing if you do drugs on your couch and sleep all day

Adam Allen
Adam Allen

oh fuck off asshole, I like doing drugs and don't have an actual communist party near me. not that I'm not trying to move to a city that has one, but I'm a mentally ill drug addict and just up and leaving on the drop of a fuckin dime doesn't usually work out very well for folks like me.

Aaron Myers
Aaron Myers

This is why we need to kill the druglods, so proles can not fall into this self-destructiveness. You could do your part.

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Sebastian King
Sebastian King

You could do your part.
don't worry, it'll happen soon enough lol.

Evan Miller
Evan Miller

Why hasn't China started cybernetics actually? Are they stoopid or too bureaucratic or what?

Benjamin Collins
Benjamin Collins

Why do you think they haven't? Supply chain management is their forte.

Jackson Lopez
Jackson Lopez

What does that exactly mean, and why can't they just make things better with computers? Computers are probably better than whatever niche they have developed.

William Phillips
William Phillips

What? Are you saying the Chinese are still doing pen and paper computation?

Isaac Sullivan
Isaac Sullivan

I mean using computers on a national level to optimize resource usage and how best to allocate resources as well. Why doesn't China do cybernetics?

Aiden Parker
Aiden Parker

Because they are conservative (in the literal sense of not wanting to try new things) and cybernetics is unproven though promising. Capitalist and state owned enterprises are of course using computerized planning both in China and elsewhere but probably the only country in the world that could extended to the whole economy is China. Also detailed news from China is hard to find since it's boring so you won't see media report it. I would pay attention to efforts in small cities and villages because they way their government works is to trial new ideas at small scale and gradually move it up to larger tests IF it is successful.

Ayden Taylor
Ayden Taylor

Hey, I didn't take a look, but does Cockshott keep the critique of Leninist party structure in the Chinese version of TANS? You know, the CPC might be more accepting of a book if it doesn't undermine it's power. Just a thought.

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Evan Richardson
Evan Richardson

Cockshott worked with a CPC member exchange student in the 1980s and tried to get hired by the State Planning Commission of China but China does not let foreigners into such important part of government so nothing ever happened. Cockshott is very favorable towards the parties of USSR, PRC, and Vietnam but those countries are not very open to his ideas. I believe he has said that either Vietnam or China told him not to discuss cybernetics at conferences in those countries.

Owen Wilson
Owen Wilson

Smaller cities are trial areas
Any examples of this?

Joshua Sanchez
Joshua Sanchez

No, because I can't find any damn local news about China. I only heard this from Chinese people discussing how state planning worked.

Christian Watson
Christian Watson

It seems that 99% of all communist parties are ML to begin with, to the point its almost hard to distance other forms of communism from ML. Its kinda the default then anything.

Ryder Moore
Ryder Moore

Tbh, a lot of Egoism was unironic. Same with Leftcoms. MLs too.

The Hoxhaists? Ehhhhhh…

But, uh, what I'm getting at is most of the change wrt Leftcoms and Egoists really only came about due to the previous BO's purge. It wasn't just natural death of a fad.

Nathaniel Thomas
Nathaniel Thomas

see

Dylan Sanders
Dylan Sanders

2953723
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