Why do tankies like and support Russia in its current state...

Why do tankies like and support Russia in its current state? What does conservative crony capitalism have to do with socialism?

Is it just being contrarian to atlanticism in a very naive, tertium non datur way?

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I don't think anybody support the Russian capitalist oligarchical state, but most people hold very incorrect views about supposed "Russian imperialism", read: links.org.au/node/4629

What is Crimea?

lesser-evilism, "realpolitik" preference for multi-polarity and force of habit, though I think there is some merit to the multi-polarity argument
I'll defend Russia and its politics against lazy propaganda but that's about it.
for tankies socialism is when there is a blue team and a red team and you root for the red team.

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Klion in The Nation wrote an article that I thought was good:



+ Russian meddling is real.

+ Taking a hard line on Russia is dumb. Sanctions, expelling diplomats and beefing up NATO will only make the problem worse. This is imperialist rivalry bullshit.

+ What Putin and the other Russian oligarchs really care about is protecting their offshore money which they looted from Russian workers and stashed in Western banks and real estate.

+ To deal with that would also require dealing with Western oligarchs.

Russia has very real grievances against America in the post cold war era, and that leads some overly enthusiastic leftists to defend them no matter what. Call it misplaced nostalgia for an era where a hypercapitalist superpower had an enemy that could challenge it militarily.

National self-determination is not imperialism, are you serious?

You realize these are the most common, baby tier geopolitics talking points that apply to every big capitalist country? By singling out Russia like that, pretending it requires some "leftist stance" you already buy into the liberal narrative of Russia being the great other.

indeed, the national self-determination of naval bases is very important to the Russian state.
stop being naive.


the Russian state did not seize Crimea to defend 'national self-determination'. it seized Crimea to hold onto the Sevastopol base without having to deal with Ukraine. Russia needs the Sevastopol base to project its power into the mediterranean.
don't treat Russia as some special case, its not the soviet union anymore, come on it doesn't even have red flags.


So? That doesn't make it imperialist, and the Crimeans did clearly want to join the Russian Federation. Stop moving the goalposts and explain to me how this is imperialism.

What I'm saying is that a tiny class of Russian oligarchs have hoovered up real estate in cities like New York, London, Paris, Panama City, Miami, etc. – they're the global capital-owning class and if you work for a living you should consider them to be your enemy. What I'd do is pull U.S. troops out of Europe, pull the warships out of the Black Sea, while nationalizing the banks and seizing their assets.

And if I did that, I'd probably get coup'd by neoliberals working together with the Kremlin!

But they're not my enemy any more than the vastly more powerful non-Russian oligarchs and elites are my enemy. The latter group regards the Russians as meddlers in the schemes they have going, hence the media hysteria about Russia. It's in the interest of western elites to push a narrative about devious Kremlin connected oligarchs being responsible for the collapsing neoliberal order.

'Imperialism' is an anachronistic and irrelevant term in the modern geopolitical environment. Read Cockshott.

Dude, imperialism will exist as long as monopoly capital exists. It's more relevant than ever because it stifles development in the Third World. It's sheer opportunism to declare something "outdated" because you don't like the deductions from it

They don't. They just hate America way more. They are right to do this by the way.

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And what deductions would that be? Support for the bourgeoisie in one nation, in opposition to the bourgeoisie of another? The entire world is capitalist now, save maybe North Korea. There are no world empires seeking to open markets and proletarianize populations at the point of a sword, there are just capitalist states in various stages of integration into the world market.

The use of 'imperialism' in this day and age as used by nationalists and marginalized western socialists isn't helpful because it reduces an anti-war stance to "pro-country X, anti-country Y." It leaves out the point that the bourgeois order in both countries should be opposed, and that an internationalist appeal for socialism should be the priority.

Its shills user, theyre all over Zig Forums, and use a different angle depending on the board.
Why do you think Zig Forums is so certain that Russian astroturfing in the last election is 100% a liberal meme?
Do not fucking trust tankies

This satan anime is cute

Fuck off liberal slime.

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A Convincing argument for sure


Tankies don't. They just like that Russia helps Assad defend from imperialist aggression.

Are the bases in Diego Garcia and Okinawa not expressions of American imperialism?
that may well be, but it's pretty interesting to see an ML support the right to secession by universal referendum. Referenda are a terrible way to make decisions btw.

Because they're LARPers with a middle-school understanding of geopolitics as good guys vs bad guys. But in their case they see it as US vs. people the US doesn't like (because the US is the only country that performs imperialism and China/Russia never do). Tankies profess support for Assad over real socialists and support for Khomeini over real communists, that should give you some indication of the level of idiocy we're dealing with here

This too, there's honestly a lot of evidence regarding Russian influence in the election now (Manafort, Gates, Papadopolous, Flynn, the uncovering of a bunch of Russian twitter political accounts including Blacktivist). Liberals can be dumb and there can have been collusion too, stop treating politics like a fucking sports team and look at the evidence

What real socialists?

I assume he's referring to Rojava.


Russia pays lip service to Soviet nostalgia as a way of legitimizing its oligarchical order, so it must be good

Go fuck yourself, your label doesn't make you right, you retarded liberal.

The Real Movement vs "the second most supported party"

How old are you?

my perfectly idealiced imaginary situation vs "the second most supported party"

I am gayer than any gay OP ever

Their class interests align with that of the Western oligarchs. That's the problem and it's why their 'solution' in both Russia and the West is a military build-up. But again, the primary interest of the Russian oligarchy is to maintain the flow of capital out of Russia into high-end luxury real estate – especially in the U.S. and the U.K. where the market is deep (and anonymous) enough to absorb it. And a few other places like Panama City.

That's why the Russians supported Trump. They owned him through their investments in his real estate empire.

In both cases this contributes to the impoverishment of working people. Russians, because this looted money is being invested into overseas real-estate to make money from speculation instead of productive economic activity at home. And Western rentiers are also profiting from this while American and British cities become unaffordable.

As David Harvey points out, real estate that is not being used productively is not 'capital' by the classical Marxist definition, which means that what we're witnessing is capital effectively going on strike. That causes a high rate of return on the capital that is in circulation through creating artificial scarcity in housing. 'That is how capital ensures its own reproduction, no matter how uncomfortable the consequences are for the rest of us. And this is how the capitalist class lives.'

I am gay

The CPRF is as communist as American Republicans - they're both represented by the color red and that's where their communism ends.

The vast majority of people support the USSR because it was strong and the trains ran on time. The oligarchical state has co-opted Soviet nostalgia and uses it to promote nationalist authoritarianism ("Lenin was a Jewish German spy who ruined Holy Russia, but Orthodox Tsar Stalin set everything right, and Putin is basically Stalin"). The state of actual Marxist movements in Russia is beyond poor, worse than in the West.

A capitalist oligarchic hellscape.

vote for the I am gay party

Nice meltdown, tankie.

I am also gay


Yeah. Capitalism is development. Imperialist monopoly capital inhibits development when it's an imperialist actor in countries affected by it, through numerous reasons (mainly the upkeeping of unproductive, undiversified industry, as well as selling back of manufactured produced created from extracted raw materials). Only when the national bourgeoisie is free to accumulate, development will increase, and so do the contradictions of capitalism, increasing the likelyhood of a communist movement. This is the orthodox Marxist position.

Look no further than free trade agreements and investment protection treaties in Africa. Economic blackmail is doesn't need guns anymore (but is willing to use it of course).

Nope, again, read theory.