Now that I am finally old enough to vote I have to decide which party to support. What is /krautleftpol/'s opinion? Which of the parties in pic related is the best?
Die Linke: DemSoc
KDP: Left Communism
Now that I am finally old enough to vote I have to decide which party to support. What is /krautleftpol/'s opinion? Which of the parties in pic related is the best?
Die Linke: DemSoc
KDP: Left Communism
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Die Linke is the only party with a real chance. But they are too succdem already.
DKP is interesting and still weak but has potential. I like their anti-EU and pro peace stances.
DKP-Ost is a meme party sect that won't ever make it.
MLPD is a sectarian party too but is the only anti democratic party that wants a dictatorship by the proletarians. They have no real chances or much potential to grow either though because they are kinda tankie like the KPD.
Vote Die Linke for tankie MILF communism.
If you're going to waste your time thinking you're doing something revolutionary you might as well become a lifestylist and have fun.
Why exactly do you support them? Could you explain? Thanks btw.
Hm. Thanks. Yeah, I see. I guess you are mostly right but it looks like there isn't really any party on the far left worth supporting then.
Come on man this was supposed to be a serious thread.
Eh. Wtf is "lifestyleism" sounds like a meme term.
this but unironically
Big tent party. Has a communist platform which has Marxist-Leninist tendencies but is marginalized. They also have an anti-capitalist platform but the overwhelmingly majority is social democracy. Wagenknecht hides her powerlevel but currently advocates some sort of market socialism. You can find many toxic IdPol liberals and Antideutsche here.
Biggest communist party which is constantly in need of money. Still recovering from a revisionist Eurocommunist period, their leadership is anti-imperialist Marxist-Leninist but still somewhat lukewarm on their stances, and many chapters are reformist.
Regular Trots. Totally irrelevant since Trotskysm is traditionally very isolated and weak in Germany.
Marxist-Leninist-Maoist sect. Personality cult. Their members are creepy. Actually do shit, sending care packages to Rojava and support revolutionaries in South Africa. Have shittons of money and put up Stalin posters in ever street which gives liberals a heart attack. Isolated amongst the left.
Hardcore Marxist-Leninists with Hoxhaist tendencies. Defend the DPRK in public and have good relations with the WPK. Goes to North Korea on official visits. Has a decent Youtube channel and decent articles. The best party but exists mostly in the East and Westfalia. Gives liberals a heart attack.
Syndicalist/Anarchist organization. Has surprisingly good stances. Anti-IdPol.
They run a rather popular YouTube channel. They have the most consistent stance and are working to unite Marxist-Leninists. Stop being an opportunist.
Die Linkie has to many Socdems for it to be revolutionary there’s a great likelihood they’ll betray the revolution in a similar way to what the SPD did. All the other parties are to small for voting for them to make a difference. Your best off voting AFD for accelerationism.
not what accelerationism means
it means that they reach out to people more effectively than all the other autists
what's it called
The Communist Party will emerge from the class conscious revolutionary proletariat, in a period of great recession of the worker's movement, the role of a communist should be to educate the the masses, firstly on the subject of the pointless and counter-productive nature of "parliementary cretinism"
Christian Democratic Union.
Oooh. Interesting. Which of those would be worth supporting in your opinion?
What are you? Retarded?
I guess it's this one. Ultra cringe in my opinion but ok.
KPD and MLPD sound based as fuck. I wish the KPD had a chance… guess I will have to go with the DKP for a while. Die Linke is allied with the anti-germans who are zionist maniacs that wave usa flags so fuck them.
The channel intro might be cringey (they should have gotten another narrator, something feels off about that chick's voice) but the Q&A videos with Schöwitz were well done, for both socialist who are interested in their stances being presented in a clear way, and also for non-socialists to be introduced to Marxism-Leninism. They also caused a lot of butthurt which generated clicks and provided exposure for the party. Some liberals outed themselves as crypto-fascists in the comment sections.
The KPD is based and all of their stances are correct. They also wrote a great article in BTFOing Dengists.
KPD is the purest but as this point we just have to adopt a little bit of a "anything goes" mentality because the situation for communists in Germany is not very good and state repression increases. Recently, they sent somebody to prison for sharing a news article about Rojava on Facebook, communists are not allowed to do their PhD and all the other shit the crypto-fascist German and especially Bavarian security apparatus and political police pulls (employing Nazis to kill immigrants, etc.). Leftists get deplatformed and silenced in Germany, so the best thing to do is to try to maintain the independence and influence of the Communist Platform, marx21 and the Antikapitalistische Linke within DieLinke.
There is a Zionist block within DieLinke which became most obvious where they didn't allow the Jewish anti-zionist journalist Max Blumenthal to speak. One of the leading proponents of that block, Gregor Gysi, was confronted by members who were critical of that once and he ran to the bathroom and locked himself into the toilet.
Isn’t he the jackass who praised the low birthrates of ethnic Germans on camera?
Yeah, he's an opportunist asshole who probably goes to dinner with CSU leaders and shit like that. His politics can be described as lukewarm social democracy. He's smart, I'll give him that, and a good speaker, but his politics are cancer.
The whole anti-zionism thing is a very ☘️problematic☘️ issue in Germany, given our history and all that. Liberals in other countries often criticize the Israelian government, but are not opposed to zionism per se, yet in Germany, amongst Antideutsche circles, you have a celebration of rampant Israelian ethno-nationalism, I saw stickers saying "I shove an imperialist settlement into your Nazi mouth" and other stuff. It's like a Tarantino-esque Jewish revenge fantasy they engage in, and it certainly doesn't help that almost every Jew in Germany is a conservative cockbag. When little Ahmed says that Israel should stop building settlements in the West Bank in middle school, there is going to be a "raising of awareness" of antisemitism because of Muslims. It's full-on race baiting. While the alt-right in the US is against Zionism and is often even antisemitic, the AfD in Germany is unconditionally pro-Israel and Jewish conservatives in Germany.
That's a meme on English-language far-right pages that always mention that he's a "Jew" (actually an atheist with a paternal Jewish grandmother, so neither Reform Jews nor old-fashioned Jews nor Gysi himself would count that as Jewish). I would like to see the German transcript of the speech that these articles are supposed to be based on, probably some lame attempt at humor by him and a deliberate misunderstanding by our patriotic friends.
Tovarisch Tank, have you considered forming your own org? You could call it something like "the Patriotic Worker's Front", mayne target the Unions for recruitment, be anti-idpol and anti-liberal. But at the same time relax with the Marxist-Lennie autism.
Avoid hammers and sickles, red flags; all the 20th century panthomime. The Greens in Germany had some success with Municipal Politics, if you can do the same thing you could potentially establish a network of popular assemblies and/or worker's syndicates.
I'd avoid identifying with the Left in general too.
sind alle Scheiße!
We are NOT allied with Die Linke you little Motherfucker. Gregor Gysi was based tbh but only bullshit since then. We tend not to fraternize with Antisemites.
That's gonna get me thrown in with Asserists, NazBols, etc. (they do exist in Germany and often get subverted by full NatSocs, see 1st pic related). The thing is, we already have a broad front of Antideutsche and similar idiots who act like harpies whenever something like this happens. Check out Sarah Wagenknecht, she's said that we should accept refugees but obviously there is a certain limited capacity if the neoliberal government doesn't do anything to accomodate them, as a result she was a) called out for "fishing in far-right waters" by the mainstream media, b) called "being a Putin shill" and c) had the Antigermans throwing a cake into her face during the party congress (2nd pic related).
The Greens are neolibs.
There already is the FAU, which is unironically based. fau.org
They are largely anti-IdPol (rare for Syndies and Anarchos) and are against smashies which is nice. However, they are not really successful either.
KPD ist basiert, informier dich
Nice bait. Hiding in the toilet when an journalist who is ciritical of Israel confronts you truly is "based". At least you guys must be happy that Trump turned out a necon, right?
You're aware that "dictatorship" in DOTP doesn't mean it's anti-democratic, right?
It's especially funny to consider the MLPD undemocratic, as they really fetishize democracy, call the GDR a dictatorship, call everything state capitalism and support Rojava. MLPD isn't "tankie" by any standards, they only defend Mao and Stalin but that's just a historical note really.
kind of a wacky move I agree. He you should have split his wig..
Yes we are. He's a monkey but he's our monkey ☘️((:
Isreal is not a person and therefore can't give a fuck about anything. Hurr Durr
If you are referring to Isreal like in all Isrealis (including Muslims, Christians and anyone who lives there.) then yes they obviously do give a fuck about woman and children. Hamas however does not. For fucks sake they use children as human shields and burn literal fucking Donkeys This is pure barbarism and you are defending it.
You are being a fucking idiot if you thinik that the results of Israel's carpet bombing centered arrond schools and hospitals isn't the main cause for the death of civilians, it's funny that the SDF's headquarters in Tel Aviv are literally surrounded by hospitals and schools as well. Many civilian deaths result from deliberate carpet bombing of densely populated areas. Even fucking Human Rights Watch acknlowledged that:
They straight out lie about alleged war crimes of Hamas. Funnily enough, turns out most "human shields" situations are false flag:
Israel carpet bombs schools, this includes schools where they knew that there were civilians in there:
There are several other sources that confirm that this human shields thing is severely overstated and made-up: After the repeated claim, UN launched an investigation, where they could find zero evidence of Hamas fighters deliberately mingling with civilians.
Meanwhile, the IDF actually did use humans shields in one instance:
They arrested a Rabbi for trying to intervene, lmao. Another claim that Israelis use human shields:
Another claim, including torture of children
Even Israel defense officials themselves admitted to have used human shields for 1200 fucking occasions:
I have more. Shall I continue?
I am German and can confirm that he said on camera (I doubt there is any English sub titled version but yeah) that he is happy about less ethnic Germans being born because there also will be less nazis that way lol. Idk if that just was a retarded joke or if he was serious tho.
Talking about memes… Gregor Gysi pretty much is le meme man himself.
zionists and us empire lovers should get banned for imperialism tbh #Mods
I think that book there is supposed to be ironic. Gysi is pretty much a left-liberal at this point.
Putin supports Israel, you ignorant fucker
The friend of my friend is not necessary my friend dumbo. This is some basic stuff.
Same goes for the enemy of my enemy..
Strawman me more
What the fuck was the point of your shitpost then? You implied that supporting Palestinian liberation equals supporting Putin, I responded that Putin supports Israel, to which you answered with some unrelated platitudes.
You don't even know the theory of imperialism, and why communists oppose it, so restrain yourself from shitting up an already derailed thread
Trot and the anti-deutsch fag really are the worst posters
Deprivation breeds barbarism. Don't expect a people humiliated and beaten down to remain "civilized" for long.
And even with the upper hand the Israeli occupation still resorts to torture, extra-judicial killings, evictions, demolitions. and other "barbarism"
Are you going to blame the people in the west-bank for what happens in Gaza?
Fucking this. Go back 40 years ago, so many liberation movements of the Palestinians would be considered radical left, and they've constantly got beaten up, obviously such people eventually resort to such extreme measures. I mean, the PFLP still exists.
HURR EVERYONE I DISAGREE WITH IS A RED FASCIST HURRRRRRR I DON'T MIND IMPERIALISM AND YOU ARE ALL NOT REAL SOCIALISTS YOU ARE REEED FASCISTS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HEIL MUKE HEIL SARGON
made me chuckle
? Once again and in English, please.
I strongly suspect that if he said it, it was a joke, and that context got cut out deliberately by a far-right guy and then it made the rounds in those circles and landed on Zig Forums
Can't access yt where I am, do you have a transcript or webm?
No. Fuck Off Elendsgestalt
Respond to the avalanche of sources against your claim instead of posting gifs from "memecenter"
Brudi, trink mal 'nen Tee oder so, für 'nen Armchair hast ein ziemliches Aggressionsproblem
Wen nennst du hier Brudi du Fotze?
He's probably an ignorant teen.
lmfao kill all non-jews tbh
Stalin was no real socialist because he wasn't of jewish ancestry btw
a REAL socialist would support Zionism as it is the only form of this that should be allowed you nazis
2/10 shitpost. Should have omitted the 4-flag. Anti-Germans aren't Trotskyists, Zig Forums
Shit I am late to the party.
lmao this nigga took the succ pill
Indeed he does.
Nice non-arguments and shitposts. I hope you are just a troll at this point.
Hehehe. You got me at #DevideTheLeft and ISIS light.
tf is this supposed to mean? Are you autistic?
yeah fucking infantiles riight..
It's clearly bait. Would've been better with a Bookchin head.
Kinski ist Ehrenmann, habe damit kein Problem
NA DANN MACH DOCH DEIN SCHEISZ!!11
Are you, by any chance, the infamous mod "a chair"? The one everybody complained against and eventually got removed from his position?
Die Linke may be sucdem but at the same time their the only party which isn't a ultra sectarian special snowflake cult so it has the best chance of winning and implementing changes to the system
About to become a second socdem party (which will be their death, because unlike SPD, their voters aren't stupidly loyal and with 9% will deplete their reserves double quick). It still has a chance to get on the right track, but it's a losing battle. The socdem faction is far better organised, the progs are too busy with their identity politics and trying to sleep in hotels instead of hostels, when they sent themselves to one of their neverending conventions and the left-wing is too defeatist and too self-deprecating to fight back. Also they take the shit flung by the corporate press way too much at heart. On one hand, it didn't do them any favour in NRW and Lower Saxony, but on the other hand it's a chance, because parasites always manage to latch on something, when it's successful until they replace all the people who worked for the success to reap their rewards.
Basically don't give up, you find yourself in hostile territories, try to find comrades in other Kreise or regions who are more aligned with what you believe.
Also WAGENKNECHT. MUST. NOT. FALL. I can't emphasise this enough. Dağdelen is also pretty good and there are a lot of talented people but they don't get as much of exposure, sadly.
People are scared of the K. They have strongholds, where they are exceptionally strong, but they fail to make impressions in their Kreis and expand to other cities. Other people consider them too dogmatic. They can't come up with a decent strategy even way before Die Linke existed. Same goes for KPÖ in Austria.
A fucking cult. They take "sect"arian to a new level, seriously.
never heard of them.
is this a classic case of projection on the part of IDF? use human shields as a doctrine and then claim that it is the opposition who do it?
'a chair' is still a mod, what are you rambling about? he's also a good boi he follow party line 100% never revision except sometimes by accidente.
suggestion for German comrades: join Die Linke and drag it to the left. It is the only major political actor open to socialist ideas, and it is mass popular action, not the 'correct party line' that will bring change to the world. You can use the more focused and narrow communist parties like think tanks: pick good things out of their political programmes and statements to use in analysis.
As an added bonus: if Die Linke goes to the left, SPD will follow and become more social democratic in policy again, since socdems always take any political space open for them like the opportunists they are.
If you think the DKP is dogmatic you've never really looked into their stuff. They've been extremely vague and wavering in their stances, which is the reason many communists shat on them for a long time. Only recently they got a somewhat principled leadership, which straightened them out somewhat. Also, do you think that people who already get a seizure from the "K-word" have any chance on sympathizing for the radical left in the first place? What the radical left in Germany needs is to be acceptable somewhat but not to give up every principle to appeal to the most reactionary liberals.
Also, shame on you for never having heard about the KPD.
user, DieLinke has been left of the SPD since a decade now, with a pretty much solid platform, and SPD has only become /more/ neoliberal. You should see how the SPD talks about DieLinke: They say that they are Stalinists, Putin-puppets (because they are against war), antisemetic. The SPD right now tries hard to distance themselves from DieLinke because it's ruled by a neoliberal block which has been cozy with the CDU since decades now. You'd need a complete overthrow of the SPD leadership for it to change, and from what I've seen, there is no base for that. Unlike the Labour Party in Britain, where you have a certain young, new base that eventually ousted the Blairites, the SPD consists largely of apathetic older people who are more interested in getting a seat on the executive board of the local Sparkasse than any serious political change. There are a few idealistic JuSos, but, they are not enough in numbers.
The only way things change is when the SPD is completely loosing any voter support, which means getting lower than 15%, and DieLinke is finally getting all the votes from the people who actually agree with them but are still spooked about them, which means getting over 15%. Once DieLinke is stronger than the SPD we can expect change.
Yep. And eventually they will go full idpol and kill the left in Germany for good once they have a say. They also aren't popular with the youth btw and Die Linke keeps failing to find a straight line because they are so diverse.
Oh my it's the sjwish DemSucc poster that keeps disgracing the flag of Yugoslavia. Tito would be ashamed.
Well, the evidence we have from the states in which they actually were voted into power, like Thüringen and Berlin, is not very good. In both cases they sold out. However, the nominees were "realos" (=liberals) to begin with, we can't foresee what will happen if someone from the Wagenknecht/Dagdelen faction makes it into power.
The problem here is that their young base is in DieLinke because they are spooked about the AfD. They had a huge membership growth in the recent years but almost all of them joined because of being against right-wing populism, IdPol, etc. - they didn't hold any principles themselves.
What scares me the most is that many young people fall for the lolbert bullshit of the FDP. In the end, "the youth" is overrated, have you seen how old our society is? Once people go into retirement in 2025 things will change, as they are very likely are not going to have high enough pensions to even buy food from. From the projections we can observe now, unless there is a significant change in the pension system, which seems to be impossible with the Merkel government, pensioners are going to have less than 800€ on average in a few years.
I can see why I would appear like that but
yeah, I somehow omitted writing that it requires that the left itself has to become a somewhat realistic alternative, what you referred to later:
Isn't this more or less happening now that the new grand coalition government was forged against the will of a lot of the SPD electorate? Or how much of their programme and demands did SPD get through in return of government support to the CDU?
Hahaha! Just as expected from the SuccDems in the making!
The lack of principles is problematic but this doesn't sound as bad as expected.
Still not too promising.
Lol. Yes. The lolbert meme really needs to stay just a meme in Germany and Austria (and technically anywhere else too). This ideology simply doesn't belong here at all and I honestly don't understand how anyone with basic education and empathy for fellow humans could fall for this.
Hehe. Our victory truly is inevitable. Good luck people of Germany. Hopefully you can turn the tide around before suffering too hard from capitalism in decay.
There is a difference between the KPD and the """""KPD""'"".
You know exactly what I meant.
You Krauts have two commie parties called the exact same thing?
Could be that it wasn't you but I remember some Tito flagger totally freaking out about people on the left who show love for their country aka patriotism. Which really upset me considering how much sympathy I have for Yugoslavia and Titoism which really was a patriotic form of market Socialism… so yeah. I assumed that was you since there aren't that many posters using this flag.
One is the Communist Party of Germany
and the other is called the Communist German Party. They are different.
Hehe. This misunderstanding remembered me of this scene from the life of Brian…
I'd be careful with such projections. It's true that a lot of people were against the coalition, but those weren't necessarily SPD voters. You have to realize that A LOT of the SPD voter base are boomers who vote for the SPD because it's a family tradition or because voting for the CDU means voting for CSU which flirts with far-right rethoric. Many SPD members are buying into this "we must make compromises to be realistic!!" type of thinking. The JuSos (youth organization of the SPD) are different, they even have Marxist reading circles, but I've never, never ever saw a prominent voice of the JuSos actually making a career in the SPD. They keep them so they can say "see, we are TOTALLY left!". The thing is I don't see much reason trying to radicalize the SPD when we already have a popular big tent radical left party who has chances to catch up with the SPD if they keep fucking up. Our multi-party system is different than the one in Anglo countries where you really just have a binary choice and the only way to make leftist voices heard is by trying to subvert the center-left. Trying to lift DieLinke up to 15% and getting the SPD down to 15% is far more realistic than trying to change a party that is basically centrist now, both in base, as well as in leadership.
Well, they didn't really have a program to begin with. However, I still take liberalism over proto-fascism of the CSU I guess, which is in my personal interest because the CSU represses communists almost South Korea style. The SPD can claim it got some of their program through because Merkel and the CDU doesn't really care about what's being done as long as neoliberalism and austerity is somewhat protected, but with Merkel you could basically do a conservative gung-ho nationalist line or a hippie kumbaya-open-borders-green-energy line - she really doesn't care.
It really just comes from America. With the internet, many people are exposed to Anglo views by getting Stephen Crowder, Sargon or Molyneux on their recommended videos, so there is an increasingly novel yuppie group amongst young students in Germany who are in the FDP or the AfD (if they also happen to hate brown people) and advocate this lolbert shit. Lindner is their hero: He's on posters with iPhone and selfie stick and goes into retirement homes and tells underpaid carers that things would be better if this would all be privatized and if the government would get out of their lives.
20 years ago, such stances would be considered mental illness in Germany. How things have changed.
What are you saying? I know the 1991 KPD is not the 1919 KPD. Obviously we talk about present-day politics.
To be fair, this is not the fault of retarded splitting, but that the KPD was simply declared illegal so they had to change into the DKP. After 1991, the KPD was declared legal again and therefore founded itself anew, but at this point the DKP already was full-on Eurocommunist.
I see. Rip. I hope the new KPD wins in some local level elections at least since it is a pretty fucking based party from what I have read about it.
Sad story indeed.
Um no actually
All these Parties like KPD/Die Linke etc are just Germano fascist NazBols masking themselves in Socialist Rheotoric while supporting the extermination of jews in Israel with their """"Anti-Zionism""""
No ban plz
Are socialist? Yes.
i've counted at least 3 titofag regulars on Zig Forums, me included
but I am also anti-nationalist and suspicious of those who claim some kind of special connection to 'the land' or 'the people' or whatever
patriotism is like religion, you are free to use it personally as a motivation or something, but it shouldn't affect society in any defining way.
that's exactly what I was saying - we don't radicalise SPD, they will move left as a result of a serious properly-leftist alternative emerging. but- this is just my hypothesis, based on observations of how socdems operate
Agreed. Imperialist and neocolonialist shilling belong in >>>/liberalpol/. Zionism could be tolerated considering labor zionism is a thing.
>>>Zig Forums is this way, you can shill your zionism there and argue with actual antisemites all day.
Anti-Germans are crypto-neocon LARPers.
It's worth a try man. I don't really think getting infiltrated by NatSocs could be that hard if you don't push Nazbol shit. Just Patriotic Leftism and Materialism.
I know, I'm just using it as an ecample of success in local electiobs, which ckuld be used to build dual power
Oh i see so instead of supporting Conservative Ethno/Religious-Nationalists we should support SucDem Ethnonationalists?
the PLO has basically fully condemned Hamas