What the fuck is going on in Nicaragua and why (no offense but) MLs or pseudo-MLs can't run anything well in Latin...

What the fuck is going on in Nicaragua and why (no offense but) MLs or pseudo-MLs can't run anything well in Latin America?

Seriously I doubt that the public hatred is all reactionary posers hired by another opposing political party or the US pretty sure there is a bunch of dissatisfied actual poor proletarian there too. Just what the fuck is up with Latin America?
How the fuck the Sandinistas can fuck up so bad? They even get praised in Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker then this shit happens. Are they real socialists or rolex wearing "socialists"? Latin America has me fucked up, I feel like all of the nations there even the supposed "socialist" ones that have 60% privately owned means of production should just pull out a Rojava. It's a mess.

here are news in Spanish so they're not stupid ass 1st world media, I know some of you understand Spanish like myself:

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None of these "Socialism of the 21st century" types in Venezuela, Bolivia or Nicaragua are actually ML. Some of them might have called themselves as such in the Cold War but they really aren't. They all abandoned proletarian democracy and industrialism in favor of some lukewarm DemSoc shit.

Why is South America so particularly predisposed towards this? I have no idea. I assume the Christian influence of those movements played a role.

Can you explain for those of us that don't speak Spanish OP?

Ok, so one old ex-Sandinista rebel won the elections in 2016 (good I support that notion), but he did some shady shit with the government supposedly because of Social Security Reforms that very few liked at all even most proletarian. Protests broke the fuck out hard recently, protestors are being killed, authorities too.

Don't get me wrong some of those protestors are reactionary garbage especially those that are so comfortable in Miami just giving their stupid ass uninformed opinion, just like some Venezuelans do. That media link I shared I just figured is from Miami actually… So my bad but still gives you the whole picture.

I gotta use this moment to at least criticize how supposedly "socialist" Latin American goverments handle socialism. I hate seeing this shit, this is bad blood for the international left. Unlike Zig Forumstards at least we're able to learn from past mistakes tho, we're much more mature, here people read books.

Well I hope you get what I mean but I hate how they all boil down becoming just another Banana Republic, I mean it's good they're cutting themselves up from American's Capitalism but for this to happen? It's fucked up. I swear sometimes I think there needs to be an international military for true socialism to just go in this places to fix their shit up, show them how it's done. If Ortega becomes one of those banana republic rolex wearing pseudo-"socialists" the reputation of Socialism will again be trashed in Latin America. This shouldn't happen & I wanna know why it happens because Latin America will always have a ton of Revolutionary potential but it has to be done in a truly revolutionary manner aka by giving the workers, worker ownership of the means of production straight up.


Here is better non-American media: actualidad.rt.com/tag/Nicaragua

(In spanish) I can't find shit in RT (english) about Nicaragua.

So fuck it will have to be NBC CCN, etc: cnn.com/2018/04/22/americas/nicaragua-scraps-controversial-social-security-reforms/index.html


Nah, the first poster on my thread is right. It's not god damn Soviet Union MLs lets be real, although I personally don't like how the Soviet Union was administrated either they don't have anything to do with this. It's just like Venezuela, it's their own fault, for fucks knows why.

I know there are reactionary forces at play, probably even some funded by the US for sure but it can't be this big. Most there for sure must just be regular proletarian because the goverment did fuck up. Badly.

It's not possible to shill an entire huge group of people & not have a leak of the shilling somewhere you know what I mean? Nothing this huge is "all manipulation". Those are stupid ass conspiracy theories only Zig Forumstards believe in and it's always the jews, etc you know how it goes.

I blame Catholicism. The Church nowadays always promotes a end of history type of liberalism that sees Bourgeois Elections as a viechal for social change. Where in reality only revolution can bring change. This explains why Cuba is an exception. In Cuba they had a revolution, and then they shoot clergymen. Latin American Leftists need to start burning churches.

It indeed has something to do with it but not entirely I wouldn't give the Catholic Church that much credit… But yes for sure that opium of the masses in way way way too fucking much deeply rooted in Latin American culture it's disgusting.

I'm totally predicting reactionary lame plays from porky owned media tho… They will (like it was done in Venezuela) hire a good looking actor to make a "hero figure" for the reactionary protestors to follow for their ends. The worst part is that most Latin Americans do eat that shit up, not even joking but thats a result of poverty, lumpenproletarian sometimes lack critical thinking, common sense & fall for the most obvious plays by the media… See: google Oscar Perez from Venezuela. He is an actor, but some retards literally believed he was the reactionary "revolutionary" he was portrayed as by the media. Supposedly he was killed later but no corpse was shown at all (dude obviously just fled to Miami). Etc, etc.

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Miss me with that gay shit tbh
M-L and other statist ideologies will always devolve into authoritarian capitalist bullshit (And yes that includes Rojava)

Just accept it already

Rojava hasn't fell there yet tho so no I wouldn't say that, they communalism is based. It's just a military hierarchy because it's needed, these are times of war.

What this guy Ortega did was something anti-socialist tho he deducted from the worker salaries 7% in payments.From 6,25 % to 7 %.
Yep, motherfucker is doing a bit of State Capitalism… *SIIIIIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*

Nobody of this shit would have happened if it was only to the Employers. Literally.

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care to elaborate

Because it honestly isn't anarchist. I'm an anarchist and I must admit that as well. It's militaristic, like PissPigGrandDad put it, it's actually very "Stalinist-like which it rocks". PissPig likes that. But whatever it is I'm sure it's doing well, so far they haven't done anything bad or turned into a banana republic they're still true revolutionaries.

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It's so difficult to find info on Nicaragua that isn't in Spanish holy shit but basically these guys are the main opponent of the Sandinistas rn:


it doesn't say shit from their political alignment either just: "we're democratic, we promote democracy" thats it. But a lot of reactionaries are the back bone of that party for sure, they dislike that they lost to the Sandinistas in the democratically issued votes recently. So I'm pretty sure they're still buthurt about that. Everything could be that backlashing, thats about it. I hope thats the case.
But yeah Ortega did fuck up rising the cost of worker's jubilation, he is supposed to back workers 100% not fuck them up especially now holy shit. Is he retarded?

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1. At what point was the Rojava revolution considered anarchistic, by you or others?
2. Why is not being anarchistic akin to being authoritarian? (I understand that's not your claim)
3. Have you considered that the reason why they are militaristic is because they are fighting in a war?
4. What makes the opinion of a single foreign volunteer a good argument?

It seems that you have fundamentally misunderstood the point of democratic confederalism. Read Ocalan.

From what I have read, Rojava does not currently have a fully functioning democracy, let alone achieved democratic confederalism. The PYD has complete legitimate authority at the moment. Their explanation as to why is primarily the war. Authoritarian leadership aside, there doesn't seem to be many authoritarian policies being implemented by the PYD, aside from conscription (and taxes I guess).

I said it's whatever, doesn't matter what they are they're indeed revolutionary. And that they're militaristic because they're at war.

It’s Communalist, which is anarchism + common sense.

Rojava is currently in a war. Once the war is over they can concentrate on building socialism. The Americans in the airbase will defect to the socialist cause during 2008 2.0 which will happen soon. You’d know this if you weren’t a retarted lifestylist.

So. How to fix Latin America then?

Honestly; being a southamerican myself i'd say it's fear of ending up like allende. When you can't rationalize your economy on popular terms without causing the CIA to coup you; and your mere existence crashes the (liberal/heavily dependent on foreign capital) market; your democratically elected lot tends to go succdem to hold on to governance and your nation suffers the consequence of it.

Here's a good article explaining the transformation of the Sandinistas over the years: jacobinmag.com/2016/04/bernie-sanders-sandinistas-daniel-orega-nicaraguan-revolution/

I can't believe anyone still has to say this today, but most Hispanic countries (Nicaragua especially so) still have double-digit percentages of their workforce concentrated in the agricultural sector or jobs affiliated with it. As such, agrarian land reform and pushing for multilateral agreements against export subsidies (especially from rich countries like the US) are the two biggest single fixes that could be done.

Push for constitutional change that allows popular reform and make your movement a heavily decentralized non personality one.
Pulling up a comandante Marcos works too.
Do your best to hold control of parliament and force change though popular struggle and protest; therefore keeping class consciousness fresh on the easily forgetful proletariat.
Purge quickly and efficiently elements that begin doing clientelism and corruption; keep the movement fresh with young blood; if possible by utilizing student movements as your best tool for renovation (and as a fresh ground for national improvement planning); and build an economical plan that involves first a constructivist focus and only after that a nationalization/collectivization drive (Thereby denying the option of crashing your economy to the bourgeois.)

Oh and don't forget to use current issues and fears to your advantage and don't be afraid to take a negative stance on the subject of other movements in Latin America. Plenty of socialist movement make the mistake of supporting other latinamerican red movements which are unpopular in their country for ideological reasons forgetting how key it is to not alienate the proletariat at least until the means of information production are unbiased and free of bourgeois control.

The colonial system really never ended in Latin America. Independence wasn't some sort of mass popular uprising, it was the wealthy Criollos fighting against the ruling Peninsulares. After independence, the Criollos simply replaced the Peninsulares' role in the colonial caste system. Today they continue to hold almost all positions of power across Latin America, leaving many countries in an almost neo-feudal state.

Oh and i forgot
Latinamerican left movements need to pull their heads out of their mass and kick out from leadership all bourgie socialists with messianic complexes. Specifically those who will attribute failure to "them stupid declassed proletariat" instead of considering neocon cointel and their use of media to inflate issues that causeproblems for the liberals in the party. They especially love to trick the left into arguments of immigration; lgbt and economy to screw with the planning the liberals hidden in the coalition have; allowing the right to be able to paint the left as an incoherent mess that does not follow traditional values and a corruption festival that won't solve their personal problems and will crash the economy.

Source: fucking Chile.

Not all revolutions are socialist, even if the rhetoric is.

didn't ortega get all spooked on jesus and abortion shit at some point?

This better be a joke

Obviously active personnel won't defect, but a large proportion of the Western volunteers in the DFSNS have always been veterans of the Iraq War, sincerely bitter over the catastrophic failure of the reconstruction they took part in.

Rojava is indeed socialist idk why you have doubts on that but well the topic ins't for this.

Sure thats stupid af but I don't get why the dude raised the costs of worker jubilation if he is a supposed socialist. Of Employers I understand but this shit is whats fucked up.

Pretty sure that if he pulled back on the worker's jubilation costs at least 80% of the protestors would just go home. The remaining ones would be bourgeois with little to almost none proletarian support

It has to do with the tradition of Dependency economics that has been the bane of all Latin American countries since their independence, you cant be self sufficient if your finances are ran by foreign bankers

then just cut ties with American banks and just give the means of production to the workers let them truly be a worker ran terrain. The only ones that shit is gonna get upset is the Capitalists but not the WORKERS. Here Ortega fucked with the workers jubilations which is a retarded thing for a "socialist" to do.

The Sandinistas betrayed the cause. Rebel Zapatista is the last remnant of socialism in Central America if not the whole of Latin America.

This article is an absolute must read for this thread. Basically the current FSLN are blairites who gave up socialist policy in order to get back into power. They are socialist only in name, yet I bet there will be tankies out there who will still defend their corrupt corporatist policies.


So they really became rolex wearing "socialists" smh these kind of people are cancer. This is why retards will never get socialism because they're retards ofc.

You know, theres a thing called the Monroe Doctrine which has proven itself to be a rather frustrating source of interference. Come on fam you cant just whip out the magic marx book and things will go a-ok, are you seriously this unaware of things?

What makes you think Ortega is creating the scenario for socialist marxism? I sincerely doubt it 100%.

The Sandinista movement seems to be approaching the same vector that most leftist movements are going through in the wake of the dissolution of the USSR. Without the support of the soviets they are now cut off diplomatically and surrounded by the besiegers. As such in order to remain in power they have turned to market reforms in order to satisfy whatever they cannot produce themselves (see Cuba and DPRK), abandon it completely (Warsaw Pact states), or abandon arms and engage in electoral politics (FARC and Sandinistas).


I agree never trust tankies. All they're good for is giving it bad rep to socialism with their rolex "socialism".

Nah man while I'm glad Cuba is no longer a USA colony it has all the symptoms of the type of "socialism" aka the slow killing cancer I'm talking about.

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go away cia

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I was expecting some idiot to call me that don't worry but no sorry to disapoint you but I'm no CIA just a regular American (American as in individual who lives in the continent of America) who is concerned with Socialism & the representation of Socialism in it.

Also I would like more evidence that this is a coup like your image says but no it seems that Ortega is really fucking up & becoming the neo-bourgosie. Shit like this kills totally kills any hope if there ever is, in states working forward to establish communism.

You're taking a meme post way too literally. Latin America is a clusterfuck because of US imperialism. Blaming whomever happens to be holding power in a country in those conditions is missing the forest for the trees. And if you're going to criticize MLs for their state being or turning into capitalism then do it on that basis, not the chauvinist bullshit where you blame people from a certain part of the world. And being genuinely socialist instead of poseur socialist is a good way to get couped or sanctioned.

How the fuck I'm supposed to know what a "meme post" is you imbecile? lol grow the fuck up

"I was just pretending!" yeah dude ok. Just fuck off there are way better ways to waste your time than posting. Thanks.

If you don't like banter why are you on an imageboard?
I stood by and elucidated my point. Whether you're literally CIA or not is not the point, what is is the narrative that the failure of socialism in Latin America is on the shoulders of Latin American leaders, which is the version of history that the US military/intelligence agencies propagate, making you effectively a tool of spreading their propaganda.

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If dislike rolex socialism(™) I'm CIA. Ok man.

yeah I wonder why anyone would think you're cia

If you dislike South-American Socialists for being to Revisionist or what the fuck ever why use that meme flag?

i don't think the Zapatistas ever or will ever fuck as bad as the others did. Ever. Marcos knows better, way better than these retards.

Your kind should off themselves,fucking idiots. You wouldnt even know how to run a goddamn high school council

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But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this “pure socialism” view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundamentals as to leave little room for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.

The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism–not created from one’s imagination but developed through actual historical experience–could have taken hold and worked better.

The pure socialists regularly blame the Left itself for every defeat it suffers. Their second-guessing is endless. So we hear that revolutionary struggles fail because their leaders wait too long or act too soon, are too timid or too impulsive, too stubborn or too easily swayed. We hear that revolutionary leaders are compromising or adventuristic, bureaucratic or opportunistic, rigidly organized or insufficiently organized, undemocratic or failing to provide strong leadership. But always the leaders fail because they do not put their trust in the “direct actions” of the workers, who apparently would withstand and overcome every adversity if only given the kind of leadership available from the left critic’s own groupuscule. Unfortunately, the critics seem unable to apply their own leadership genius to producing a successful revolutionary movement in their own country.

To be sure, the pure socialists are not entirely without specific agendas for building the revolution. After the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, an ultra-left group in that country called for direct worker ownership of the factories. The armed workers would take control of production without benefit of managers, state planners, bureaucrats, or a formal military. While undeniably appealing, this worker syndicalism denies the necessities of state power. Under such an arrangement, the Nicaraguan revolution would not have lasted two months against the U.S.-sponsored counterrevolution that savaged the country. It would have been unable to mobilize enough resources to field an army, take security measures, or build and coordinate economic programs and human services on a national scale.