Why do Leftypol types hate him?

I mean, yes Elon Musk is an ebil capitalist who sometimes bully his workers, but Im sure there are far worse capitalists monopolists you can bully. His companies arent trying to starve poor communities of fresh water like Nestle, nor is he an oil baron funding climate change denialism or a Silicon valley conglomerate using child labour to make smartphones in Asia. Hes not perfect, but hes still better than 99 percent of capitalists. Most of his companies have a net benefit to humanity. It seems strange that leftards would attack a man who's doing his best to tackle one of the lefts core issue, Climate Change.

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And before anyone replies that twitter leftypol doesnt represent them, Ive also observed this common sentiment in r/Chapotraphouse, r/socialism, various leftypol groups on facebook. Its pretty weird that leftypol who I thought were full of smart people would fall for Big Oil, Legacy automotives companies and anti climate change propaganda campaign.

most of the alt-right hates him too oddly enough. Look up articles about him in the dailystormer. All negative.

Oh great, so you see why we hate him then, why does this topic exist again?

What other corporations do is irrelevant because they aren't getting sucked off by nerds and the media in the same way, and as stated his companies are basically just financial schemes. Tesla stock is valued at $620k per car sold, compared to a few thousand per car for Toyota stock. It's absolutely a way to bilk the government and investors for money, and his other companies are even worse; SpaceX is a joke using NASA technology they didn't get the funding to use, not creating anything, and Hyperloop is a scam that will never work.

Furthermore, electric cars are a bad solution to climate change. Much more mass transit and the restructuring of the western city to encourage walking/cycling is a much better alternative than the cowardly attempt to preserve rugged individualism embodied by the personal automobile at the cost of the environment. And yes, those big fat batteries and electrics absolutely involve materials from child labour and horrible conditions just like your smartphone.

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ive lurked on alt right forums, its basically 50/50. A fascist group has more opinion diversity than leftypol.

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Im sure everyone on leftypol has. You know, Know thy enemy.

Its just weird that the dirtbag left are only targeting Elon Musks companies, who arent even the worst perpetrators of this. Its considered standard practice in most manufacturing industries. If labour laws hadnt been whittled down for more than 30 years, startups like Musks wouldnt need to treat their employees like robots, and risk a PR nightmare to compete with bigger companies who engage in similar practices to increase productivity. The dirtbag left should be focused on improving labour laws, and not bullying small players like Musk who had nothing to do with the creation this work culture. You guys are just useful idiots for Big Oil, Big Auto and Koch Brothers backed anti climate change groups who have it in for Musk. You arent going to improve anything by this. If Elon Musk goes out of business, someone else will take his place, and workers will continue to be exploited. Its just Leftpol being useful idiots for legacy corporations who were integral in the creation of this work culture and in destroying labour laws.

Again, people aren't intellectually wanking off Ford and GM so there's less of a reason to attack them with rhetoric, but as it happens no, Tesla is actually far worse and more dangerous to work at than the big American automakers, Musk is triggered by health and safety laws and he has the books at Tesla cooked to make it look safer than it actually is.



And on top of that, he's also a union buster, of course.


Basically, he's scum.

Behind every great fortune is a great crime and it's important to point this out whenever people start hero-worshiping a porky.

Well it's that plus stupid kneejerk contrarianism and dislike of reddit, anyway. Can't say I think people bringing him up out of nowhere or treating him like a unique evil is always justified, but what can you do, brainlets gonna brainlet and it's just a porky getting mocked anyway.

There are plenty of other automakers that are also investing in electric cars and selling them for much cheaper than Tesla, there's just no reason for the huge media hype about him and his business other than it's good for him and his stock capitalisation. Also, Musk is not a 'small player' to be 'bullied', boo hoo, that would be his employees he works into the ground.

You're right, someone else will take the lead on electric cars, like is already happening, if Tesla went broke, so why do you feel the need to white knight for him exactly? Get this through your head, all corporations are amoral, there's no such thing as a business that's 'down with the left' because they all rely on labour theft, if they didn't there would be no profits. Are all corporations equally bad? No, but none of them are actually good and worthy of support - at the very least you should buy your essentials from those with the best worker's rights which certainly isn't Tesla, and certainly isn't the same as shilling for them online FOR FREE.

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Because, apart from him being a capitalist pig, he's also a fraud. Listed/read to Bookchin's criticisms of futurism

Disgusting. Most auto companies get bigger subsidies than Tesla. Maybe you guys should advocate for an equal playing field that just targetting one company who happens to be in the bulls eyes of legacy corporations.
No, Tesla a valued according to their future growth projections. Their revenue are growing every year,

Spacex took the financial risks in investing in unproven technologies, when no organisation was willing to, refined and improved on the concept and are being rewarded for it. Im sure Nasa engineers are being financially rewarded for it too.

Theres a difference between on paper prototypes and full commercialization

>Hyperloop is a scam that will never work
I agree

You clearly dont understand the differences between idealism and reality. Countries like America, with spread out population centers will never adopt public transportation as their primary method of going to places, and which will meet the full needs of the common people. You have to be realistic here. Heck I live in a country with a good public transport system and I get penalized heavily for taking the bus everyday. It takes me triple the time to get to work by public transport than its is by car, I cant imagine what its like for Americans who want to use public transport. Electric cars, paired with a hybrid solar - gas powered grid is the most realistic solution today to battle climate change. Batteries that are being made by Tesla arent being made children in third world countries, but in America, using the latest manufacturing methods (Gigafactory in Arizona). Also those batteries, will make it possible for anyone to be energy self sufficient in a decade as costs goes down.

Its a similar story in most manufacturing start ups who want to maintain the American made budge. The fact is, it is very difficult to compete with established corporations who have their manufacturing base in Mexico or China and favoritism within congress, without exploiting employees. Blame Globalism. This is a systemic problem.

Will you guys continue to say that when Spacex is making rounds to the moon or the near earth asteroids for their rare earth mining operations, or when everyone on earth has cheap internet because of the starlink constellation enabled by cheap rocket technology? When will Musk prove to the average anti Musk Leftypol retard that he isnt a fraud?.

He's trying to gut public transportation in California just so he can get between his houses and work. Fuck that guy.

Musk is going to go bankrupt when the next crisis hits. SpaceX will be sold off and will lose its PR edge. People like you won't even care what they do at that point.

Which wouldn't have happened if Tesla didn't shock the automotive world into action when they released a viable electric car in 2012. The only electric model that is a available in America and which is cheaper than the model 3 is GMs Bolt, and it is cheaper by a small margin. The Bolt doesn't even have a battery cooling system which will mean it'll cook its batteries a decade before a model 3 built in the same year. It also has significantly less range. Model 3 is still the best value for money electric car.

You're an idiot. He told that story in jest. He's likely thought about that concept of transportation years before saying that, in order to improve the lives of the proletariat, who over the course of their lives, waste precious years in traffic jams. It probably won't work, but you'd be stupid to think he only thinks of these ideas to Improve the quality of life for the rich like himself, when Musk and those like him probably have access to on demand helicopter services.

I doubt your masturbation fantasies will come true considering spaceX just flown the final iteration of its work horse the falcon 9 Block 5 which will allow larger profit margins and extreme readability. Google also had their back. But if it does come true, good luck accessing space with God Bezos holding a near monopoly in private space exploration with Blue Origin and the SLS program being a money pit and a failure.


Give me one fucking reason not to despise ANY rich person
Oh wait you can't

Especially some silicon valley mascot fuckwit like Musk

Why the fuck is a literal Musk fanboy dick sucker on Zig Forums?

Do you actually think this is what car culture is about? Lol
It's about selling more cars dumbass. They lobby to block or even remove mass transit, build cities stupidly on purpose, etc etc
Remember in your history books when anybody could afford to take a train from one coast to the other? Fuck Henry Ford

Hes probably a Eurofag. As someone that works with touring musicians these foreigners have no idea how big the USA actually is.

He got into a Twitter fight with someone vaguely and distantly related to us so EMDF came out in force.

This is a pretty good left response to Musk

Could someone explain this for a brainlet like me? Is the implication that Musk's cars are overprised? Also how do we know that Musk bilks the government and investors?

Financially illiterate retards on leftypol don't understand how the stock market works

Because he's just another dirty capitalist who loves exploitation and hates unions?

What is it with retards on the left and their obsession of European style public transit system? The fact is, as has been highlighted already, American suburbs and population centres are too spread out for a Euro style public transport system to ever be viable in America. Yes, the current public transport infrastructure should be improved on, but you can never replace the role of cars in America with public transport without causing huge productivity problems. Blame retarded corrupt urban planners for designing American cities around the car 80 years ago. I post on a tech forum regularly, and we've discussed the boring company and it's likely musk isn't even going to use expensive tunnels for something as low profit margin and low pop density as moving heavy cars from city to city. We've concurred that Tesla or SpaceX engineers are working on incorporating the hyper loop tech in these tunnels as it solves several fundamental problems at once, like the terrorist, breach, land and vacuum leakage issues. This is his ultimate goal. Hyperloop won't be competing with public transport but with intercontinental airlines. There's still many technical and regulatory challenges with the hyperloop concept though, and I doubt it'll work, but that whole piece is stupid.

His workers choose to work at Tesla. It's not exploitation when it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Workers get a few hard but educational years working at a well regarded firm which will look good on their CV and give them the suitable experience and know how to get a better paying job at a more established and profitable company later and Tesla gets committed employees. Most people who work at Tesla, find jobs easily at other firms when they decide to leave to pursue other careers and are payed well above the industry average since Tesla and spacex ex employees are highly sought after throughout the world. So many people I know would kill to get a job at Tesla or SpaceX because it opens so many doors.

I'm one person, and I'm not a paid shill. Mods can look at post history to know that I'm not a shill looking to influence opinion. Anyway why would shills go to some barely known lefty forum to defend the honour of Musk?

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more =/= good

how about reconstructing the grotesque american urban sprawl into actual planned cities and not relying on profit driven parcel construction?

i want bootlickers to leave

In capitalism, a lucky job seeker's only choice is which bosses will take everything that he produces. Most don't even get to do that.

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then this is just sad

bro he is no better then anyother pig capitalist banker fuck. He just makes a perception of himself. we need to prepare ourselves for victory not capitalist pigs like elon musk. if he really cared he would shill for communism.


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I don't understand the EV enthusiasm. These cars run on energy that you have to produce somehow. In most modern countries, that means they run on Fossil Fuels, or they run on Nuclear power.
I asked a Renault engineer some months ago who told me we'd need to build another 20+ nuclear power plants to support the whole french population driving Zoe cars. Even if renewable energies are developing,
that's an overwhelming amount of energy.
Of course, there is the problem of the batteries – which we are trying to put in fucking everything these days (I sure hope you guys like smart toothpicks). Not only does manufacturing them is quite polluting, but lithium
reserves aren't infinite – which might become problematic because we're trying to fit a battery in fucking everything.

I suppose electric cars have the positive effect of reducing pollution locally (in cities), but even then, there must be better ways to go about this.

Sorry who were we talking about again? Ellon something? He's a Saint.

That's irrelevant, and criticizing Musk draws more attention. The fact that he has a cult of personality is itself a relevant topic of discussion.


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Rick and Morty is fine. The latest season was weak, but w/e. I'm more worried about how they treated union workers. Like seriously wtf. I want a fucking riot in Atlanta supporting the REAL fuckers that made the show fun to watch.

Because he gives the impression that le capitalists will save the world, while destroying it in the process. He is also a fucking retard and hypocrite, such as saying that "people have too much children" while having 6 kids himself.

He is just a cunt who presents himself as some kind of demigod, and his fans fucking believe it.

He steals redit from scientists who invent stuff like the Falcon X rockets or Electric Cars. Simply put he hasn’t really done anything. Also he’s kinda a meme. I wouldn’t hate him if he just gave money to scientists to invent stuff and didn’t steal any credit from them. But yeah the Koch Brothers and Soros are much worse than this guy.
t /leftyech/

Musk please leave, go to your reddit places where people suck your dick. A communist board isn’t a place for Enraptures.


No it’s mostly a recycle of old NASA and Soyuz tech.

Read this book, essentially Cars allow for suburban existence which decreases community strength and community building.

If workers don’t work for a boss they make no money and starve. Employment isn’t voluntary.

Not a Musk shrill, but there’s nothing wrong with Nuclear power. Nuclear power is the only way we can fully replace fossil fuels. Improved designs will reduce risk of meltdowns. Under socialism most energy would come from Uranium, or Thorium power planets.

Ah yes, the "choose your own exploitation" argument.

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Estimates are that all the accessible uranium and thorium in the Earth's crust would only be enough to power the world for a few decades. Nuclear power is a boondoggle. There is another way to replace fossil fuels. Under socialism we won't let the profit motive stop us from doing it.

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Uranium is still a limited resourced, and the more stress we put on our electric networks (for example, by using enormous amounts of energy for cars), the more limited it becomes. Nuclear waste is also kind of a problem. But I agree with you, it's still
better than fossil fuels, and it's at least a decent temporary solution.

Would be neat if we were able to do use Fusion, but the research is taking ages and there's no telling whether it will bear fruits.

Youre an idiot. We have thousands of years of Thorium deposits. The problem is in the process of extracting that energy from Thorium, which can be solved.


Now from what I recall, thorium is roughly 3x as abundance in the earth's crust. Okay, so a bit more than several decades. Maybe a century.

Also nuclear is not necessarily a clean energy source. CO2 is generated at a number of places in the process.

Although the CO2 trap probably impacts thorium-based power generation far less because most of naturally-occurring thorium is already fissile, unlike uranium.

Not everyone enjoys drinking irradiated ground water

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As Marxists we know that productivity is directly linked to value. That is, that companies and countries can only create real wealth by producing material goods. Wealth that is based on an expectation of future growth or on percieved 'innovation' is highly unstable and suspect, as we saw in the Dot Com bubble and the general hollowing out of the west after deindustrialisation.

A car company's value is created by the cars it produces. Toyota creates many millions of low priced cars that sell well, but its stock is performing only averagely in comparison to Tesla, which sells a relatively few cars, and while their cars are higher priced, they're not so much higher value to justify the huge discrepancy. In short, Toyota, Ford, GM etc are being correctly valued based on present earnings and productivity, whereas Tesla's stock value is massively overinflated compared to their actual productivity and is based on an expectation of future earnings rather than actual track performance. In short, the valuation is highly suspect and calls into question the entire foundation of the business, considering that Musk is highly involved in hyping up the business and trying to create buzz about it. What we've seen in the past is that these kind of companies can be extremely unsafe bets and are often even dishonest, for example Enron which similarly promised a revolution in energy.

He said nuclear energy not fracking.

But apparently you're much happier with spewing all our pollution directly into the air we breathe rather than storing it safely.

Well said comr8.

Unfortunately we live in an age of finance capital which turns industrial investment (i.e. industrial capital) into speculation. Even some very successful investors are now saying that the value produced by a company (i.e. its "fundamentals") are no longer the predictor of market value. The system is broken.

There is no such thing as safe storage of nuclear waste.

In the sense that there's no such thing as a perfect anything, sure, but even if we agree 1% of nuclear waste will be released from containment before it becomes safe then why would you worry about that compared to fossil fuels which vent their waste products directly into the air (including radioactive materials and carcinogens)?

And before you say oh, but I meant using renewables instead, well that's great but without a massive sea change in our use of energy current renewables just aren't going to be enough to fulfill our needs. Practicially, in the short and mid term the only way to replace fossil fuels would be with nuclear energy.

And sadly when it comes tumbling down it will no doubt be the workers who suffer as always.

We have around 800 years of reserves.

It isn’t just store it in a really really deep hole.

Nuclear power has no effect on groundwater.

Good thing Tesla employees very few pwople.


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We have 40,000 years of thorium left


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Cost is not quite the issue here. I'm surprised your link managed to make such an oversimplification of the problem, but the major issue is how much energy you get out from the energy you put in to extract and refine the fuel. When does diffuseness of the material overwhelm its energy density? For uranium, that estimate is around 2080 if no major new veins are discovered. This calculation is probably a lot different with thorium considering how molten salt reactors work, but I'd like to see an analysis of it.

It checks out.

1. There is.
2. Even if there weren't, I'd much prefer nuclear waste to continued air pollution. But then again, clean air would make you stop seeing Jesus and believing in angels, so I understand why you'd stick by the current measures.

Why does reddit like to suck his cock so much?