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LCS first ship to go from construction to maintenance dock without passing go or collecting $100. In ye olde days if a ship wasn't seaworthy after construction, people had the common sense to let it sink with dignity and grace. Navy also reduces order from 55 to 32 hulls, there will literally be two times more destroyers in service lol. And it's a pure gunship with a shitty 57mm cannon. This has to be the worst """"frigate"""" ever invented.
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Threadly reminder that those 4 ships cost as much as the Queen Elizabeth-class.
As in the whole class, both carriers.
Good. This thing being in service lowers combat readiness. The Navy will be more effective without having to limp these things along.
Yeah but every shekel that goes into "maintenance" for these floating abortions is still a dollar not spent on other USN ventures implying any of the money the USN spends is competently allocated.
Why didn't the navy just study the working design elements of the Tarantul III it has and work from there? Surely it would of saved them a lot of time over trying to reinvent the wheel.
I don't care if they say it'll cost more to stop the program. Stop the fucking program. It's shit.
bump
LCS is undeniably horrible, it's inferior to coast guard ships.
Either way USN is considering buying new frigate program. Either way here are the finalists.
popularmechanics.com
The fail: LCS designers are working on both of the frontrunners…. and yes they're failures too.
Captain! We're unable to locate the Clitoral Combat Ship!
“It’s the best ‘combat ship’ fielded by any country in history,” said Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer, indicating air quotes around the words ‘combat ship.’ “Metaphorically speaking, of course.”
8 posts and no jokes. are you ladies feeling ok?
Who cares? Cargo ships are the future.
Aren't these retard containers made out of mostly aluminum? Doesn't that mean that these things don't even have the basic naval decency of not becoming combat ineffective if and when a cargo ship made out of steel comes into visual range?
That's one hell of a snout.
What is it going to be facing?
LCS is inferior to Grief-sha decommissioned in the 90s, or to Buy-and which are seven times smaller. Just compare this sadness to the pinko Stereo-gush
en.wikipedia.org
8 x 130km shipkiller missiles
1 x 100mm gun (21km)
8 x 330mm torpedo tubes (11km)
3 x 30mm gun (3km)
2 x 14.5mm gun
40 x 8km air defense missiles
en.wikipedia.org
1 x 57mm gun (8km range)
2 x 30mm gun
4 x 12.7mm gun
21 x 9km missiles
With the missiles the Stereo gush can kill eight seperate LCS before they can see it. If they don't choose to run, the russian can close to 100mm cannon range and take out two dozen LCS. If the LCS again don't choose to run, the russian can close to torpedo range and take out another eight LCS ships. Finally, after 40 dead ships, the LCS might have a chance, because if the russian depletes all his long ranged weapons, in the 3km-8km range the LCS have an edge.
Considering only 32 LCS are being built, I seriously doubt they can afford to trade 40:1 losses, so all the LCS is going to do is run from ships its entire service career. They can't take out even a single peer-mass opponent.
Our Cyclone Class Patrol Boats are better armed. The idea of the LCS isn't a surface vessel for ship-on-ship combat. It's lightly armed and armored littoral vessel with a mission of patrol, insertion of forces, and the ability to provide limited fire support to those forces…in other words, it has no function other than to acting as a monetary black hole to funnel taxpayer dollaroos into the pockets of contractors, lobbyists, and project officers.
I don't think they're meant to trade with ships in their weight class
So the USN is prepped and ready if Torpedo-Boat swarms make a comeback.
Don't forget the LCS was also marketed by Lockheed as a replacement for the Perry, which was a key reason why the Perry class frigates were all retired and the USN was left without frigates for 15 years.
As are Hamilton and Legend-class coast guard cutters. They also have three times longer range and are more stable in high seas.
My real gripe with the LCS is that it can't actually operate in the littoral zone, it's a bit too deep draughted to work in rivers or in intertidal zones. In terms of combat team inserting, USN would have been better off building twice as many Heritage class cutters. Seriously, look them up, they have similar displacement to LCS, carry similar armament as LCS but are actually heavily armored and can also carry three high speed landing boats compared to LCS carrying only one. They can't work in the "littoral" zone, but then again neither can the LCS, and the Heritage have much better blue water seaworthiness.
The module system is cancelled. There was a competition for an over the horizon missile system and the Norwegian NSM won, but the Navy rejected them because they heard the USArmy was developing a hellfire-like over the horizon missile. Eventually the army dropped the program, and now there is no missile system for the LCS.
So they're even more useless than they were? That's actually quite impressive.
I'm sure eventually something will be invented.
The RIM rolling airframe missiles are used for point defense, but maybe they can be modified to shoot small boats. The warhead has as much punch as a 120mm mortar. That's not enough to sink a ship in the 500 ton range, but it can definitely take out ships in the 50 ton range.
Why am I not even surprised?
I'd wager that this should give you a fairly good idea, even though the document is three years old now.
oni.navy.mil
Probably the closest match for LCS would be Type 054A, which is supposedly 4000~ tons, while LCS is supposedly 3500~ tons. Both can carry helicopters, both presumably can send smaller boats, chink boat has a longer operational range, but LCS is faster.
1 × 32-cell VLS
HQ-16 SAM
Yu-8 anti submarine rocket launcher
2 × 4 C-803 anti-ship / land attack cruise missiles (120-200km)
1 × PJ26 76 mm dual purpose gun (10km)
2 × Type 730 7-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns or Type 1130 (3km)
2 × 3 324mm Yu-7 ASW torpedo launchers (14km)
2 × 6 Type 87 240mm anti-submarine rocket launcher (36 rockets carried)
2 × Type 726-4 18-tube decoy rocket launchers
I don't know, I am starting to think that LCS is basically a small holiday cruise-ship pretending to be a warship.
It's not.
Russian 4000 tons range ships are equivalent to EU frigates (that are undeservedly designated as destroyer by NATO).
The Russian equivalent to the LCS are
Buyan is bristling with weapons, look at the size of that cannon. I bet it turns the ship sideways when it fires full auto.
Also cool
en.wikipedia.org
Tbh fam Koschei the Deathless would be a pretty badass name for a battleship.
If Russia ever makes a Battleship again it is first and foremost likely to be called the "Kebab Remover"
"The Cargo Ship"
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ROLLING
Risky. The Los Angeles class tends to crash more often, the Ohio crew is far more practiced at surfacing and running near the surface since they're a ballistic missile sub.
Welcome to the taxpayer funded military industrial complex. I hope you enjoy your stay, Frenchie.
well aluminium is inflammable at a significantly lower temperature than steel so let them learn that lesson the fun way.
So Zig Forums, if all you have is a rowboat, how would you take down an Ohio class?
Roll.
roll
Flip it and claim to be a refugee. Once inside ???
Could be worse
Pic related. Then again I'd be tempted to try it on anything up to and including your supercarriers too.
Nice. I probably should change the "Another Sub" unless we are going to get a declassified in 50 years saying it was indeed hit by the Burgers
What did you honestly expect? It's supposed to be a littoral combat ship not a literal combat ship.
Oh, so that's where the name came from in this comic
Rollan
Shipping containers are 2.6m long and 2.4m wide, could vertistack a shitload of ALAS missiles.
An ALAS has a 60km range and a ten kilogram warhead, travels high subsonic but it can pull ten gee. It's ten year storage/launch container is 0.2m in length and width, and 2.5m long. A standard shipping container fits 300 of them. The Russian LCS version can fit two standard shipping containers, that's 600 missiles.
Average shipping radar horizon is 12km, very tall ships like carriers and cruisers can manage up to 40km. So it's feasible this ship could sneak within range and unload more missiles than any defense could figure out.
If you parked it in a river it could prevent tanks from crossing or even coming close, no artillery could touch it due to the range, as long as you had good scouts and spotters it could hold an army at bay.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
If there is the will, there is a way.
Oook contrarian
Objection, every post that mentions LCS contains at least one joke.
They wanted NSM after NLOS-LS was cancelled, but that hasn't gone anywhere. At some point they selected Griffin but it turned out that it is incompatible with fire control systems of LCS and then switched to Hellfire as temporary solution. Reality is that both Littoral Combat Ships are glorified patrol boats with long range and everything else being compromised by insane speed requirement. Not to mention half of mission modules being cancelled. Those are supposed to do a lot of their mission via their helicopters, but overall whole concept was failure on more than one level. US Navy had very little idea what they were doing in 90's with their future ship concepts. Virtually everything that wasn't Zumwalt-class and LCS was axed. Then Zumwalt-class was axed only after 3 ships.
>The Russian equivalent to the LCS are
Roll
Enjoy getting sanctioned for violating one of the oldest agreements on military equipment there is.
By who?
What? Concealing warships as merchantmen IS one of the oldest naval traditions.
Now granted Q-ships were almost exclusively US/UK only since US/UK submarines never bothered to surface and try to spare the civilians crews and simply torpedoed everyone at the first opportunity so other nations Q-ships didn't really worked, but everyone at one point or another in history everyone has used armed merchantmen for war.
That's a nice little toy. In all seriousness, its a toy, but I'd rather have that over the LCS. It has anti-air, radar, good profile, and a half-decent forward cannon.
I don't think you understand how much money we can spend on things.
Imagine doing a career in special forces and the highlight of your whole military career was watching some guy cut down a single tree.
That's a 500 ton ship that has as much armament as a 5000 ton frigate.
What were the Russians thinking?
Does this count as weaponized shitposting?
It's not out of the norm, South Koreans are average around eight feet tall.
It's legal as long as they're properly registered and marked as warships, which wouldn't matter much in this case because American sailors can barely distinguish actual warships from merchants as it is.
It beats that one.
What action was that one?
Only a very small part of the Grenada invasion which is a fun, fun read.
Wew.
Note that the pic is wrong it's not seal team 6, it's another one.
Seal Team 6 almost all drowned doing something else.
Seal Team 6 landed in the ocean and 2 of them drowned, the whole war is a solid laugh tbh, palm trees did more damage to the US than the Grenadian troops, mainly because the whole army consisted of a couple of conscripts and "numerous armoured vehicles" (read: 4x4 trucks and one BMP which didn't have any crew)
The yanks also managed to call down an arty strike on their own command tent, which is impressive.
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The army does a pretty good job if you just designate a section of map and tell them to make everything in it a crater. All this precision strike shit causes problems because they don't recruit people who can count past 10 with their shoes on.
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Except for each artillery gun in service in the US, Russia has 5 and for each MLRS they have 10…
Oh and Russia still maintains it's full range of artillery from amphibious SPG to lighter and concealable field guns to heavy 200+mm guns and autonomous coastal defense guns.
And from the 120mm mortars to the 300mm rockets they all come with laser guided and thermobaric ammo.
If it turns into a contest of who is capable to make the best lunar landscape, my money is not on the US…
But Strelok how could the Jew Kissinger sell all of our industry to the Chinese if we invaded their only vassal state? Real politik goy
Rolling
You're assuming the Russians know how to use their shit. In recent decades, the only military involvements which weren't a show of Russian incompetence were the ones where they're merely supporting someone (Syria, east Ukraine - though I wouldn't exactly call downing a civilian airplane a show of competence either). Granted, they've tried to learn from the failure in Georgia, but it'll take more than successes with tactical and air support for middle-east dictator to convince me.
How was the campaign in Georgia a failure?
One of the first results: reuters.com
TL;DR: the whole thing should've went much smoother, considering it was conducted by professional army and not conscripts with only basic training.
Georgia is a perfect example of how competent the Russian army is and how NATO armies really aren't.
Georgia isn't in NATO.
How the fuck do you call incompetent commanding that causes a full rout not a failure?
Look at the Anglo trying to cover up the stench of utter defeat with propaganda.
Threadly reminder that the Georgian army was made up of experienced professionals with not one officer not being a graduate from various NATO military schools, not one soldier haven't been trained by US trainers and most of them having done at least one tour in Iraq (third largest provider of soldiers after the US and UK… yeah) or Afghanistan.
Meanwhile the Russian 58th army was (and still is) largely made up of obsolete gear and by that I mean T-62s level of obsolete… The infantry was decent but it was a counter insurgency army absolutely not an army made for maneuver warfare.
Meanwhile the US congress picked up the bill for ALL the Georgian T-72 to be modernized (by us… Thales did the modernization), by 2008 Georgia had been the recipient of most foreign US military aid after Israel for years.
They want to be. They reformed the entire structure of their army around 2004 to a c/c of the US one and NATO helped them every step of the way.
All the documents pertaining to the planning of the operation to retake South Ossetia the Russians seized were written in English, because it is de facto the working language of Georgian officers.
The 2008 Georgian army was more a NATO compliant army than Poland and way way way more ready for war than any of the new NATO members (pick any).
It's the Georgian army that routed, silly.
It would seem there's more to modern warfare then having some not-shit equipment and having shot at durkas. If it was a great success, then top Russian officials probably wouldn't follow it up by stating that their army needs to modernize.
Routed or retreaded? Coudln't find anything on that.
In every conflict Russia has been in since the 80's their conscripts have deserted in mass and they have taken ridicules casualties against far weaker forces. You Russiaboo faggots are gigantic niggers.
Routed.
On two different occasion two different infantry battalion panicked and fled against what was minimal forces. The first one on the first day caused the whole army to cease it's advance and back off strategic objectives despite the fact they were wining and Russian forces weren't anywhere near them…
The second one on the second day was due to that lone Russian battalion that dispersed into platoons and was aggressively engaging vastly superior in numbers Georgian units in close combat after having ditched their vehicles. It probably gave the false impression that the place was very heavily defended when it really wasn't and that their orders were suicidal, add bombed/jammed CPs and the Georgian army GTFO as fast they could (to be fair the only big group that didn't panic and stayed took a cluster SS-21 strike to the face a couple of hours later, so…).
That's the thing even if the Russian commanders on all levels took the right decisions and properly outmaneuvered the Georgian army despite being outmanned, outgunned and "outsurprised", turning what should have have been a quick Georgian victory into a total rout, it was still quite a clusterfuck and the Russian generals quickly realized that there was quite a number of potentially fatal flaws in their operations if they were ever to face a competent enemy.
A good example were the air loses… what nobodies tells you is most of them were self-inflicted, the Georgia shot down a Tu-22M, a Su-24MR and a Su-25.
The Russian army shot down at least two Su-25 and a Su-24 of the Russian airforce, probably more (definitely more took damages). There was a Georgian Su-25 raid on the first day (that missed both the Russians and the ONE strategic bridge the Georgians had to blown up/take to win…) before Russian AA had made it across the mountains which startled the Russian commanders. And after that they didn't show but once the AA showed up since there was an order there was enemy planes in the AO the very old ZU-23-2 and ZSU-23-4 of the 58th army subsequently were shooting at everything that moved, which by that point were only Russian planes. Another is when most of the losses came from mortar platoon being wiped out by artillery strikes in transit (mortar platoon of the 58th army were on trucks despite having to go fairly close to the front with the rest of the infantry that is under armor), etc…
It's not because you've won you can't learn valuable lessons. Even if it won the 58th army was quite scary to look at and when the Kremlin realized it's main reinforcement arriving on the third day that had been clogging the road for 2 days was revealed to be the 30 T-62 and the hundreds of BTR-60 and BMP-1 of the 42nd motorized rifle division I'm pretty sure everyone realized how much the Caucasus units were poorly equipped and in dire needs of modern equipments and that would have prevented lots of unnecessary deaths.
But facing them was people that had EVERY advantage on paper, that didn't took great humans losses, only tremendous material ones, that didn't loose badly and did score tactical victories but still couldn't secure and achieve strategic victory.
Sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?
And instead of questioning why an army that was modernized trained, educated, geared and lead by NATO directives completely dislocated upon contact of the enemy, all western experts military opinions and doctrinal reaction was "the Russian army was superior/had superior numbers" (when they really weren't/didn't when the actual fighting took place) or "look the Russian themselves say they didn't won by that much".
0 self criticism as usual.
Pipo miss the point of why these ships were designed and funded… they exist arguably as a means to give command slots to Officers in a shrinking Navy. How do you keep a viable pool of talent? You have to give them a place to work. The LCS (aka "little crappy ship") is that.
Mind explaining how occupation of Crimea was a military failure?
I remember that the whole friendly fire thing became as sort of a shock to higher ups, apparently they realized that their communication and command/control systems were inadequate to say the least. I suspect that they were deemed adequate "enough" for grand, pre-planned manouvers that were expected during cold-war era european operations, and for operations in Afghanistan, which also were quite rigidly planned in regards of whatever long distance firesupport or airsupport was utilized.
The communication wasn't the problem, it was they weren't expecting NATO to jam all their shit considering they managed to get a hold of the Kremlin with burner phones and landlines. Wonder what the Russians will do with all that shit obummer gave the Ukrainians who left lying around Debaltseve.
Russia jammed Georgian Israeli and french made comms.
Not the other way around, NATO-style EW is fucking non-existent.
This did happened because the 58th army used regular legacy radios, they had like 2 satcoms for the entire 42nd division.
Long range radios just don't work in the mountains plain and simple. Never have, never will.
Short range tactical radio links worked just fine (and the command/control techniques for artillery they developed in Chechnya proved perfectly apt as the multiple small elements were able to guide precisely small artillery strikes, which are divided and linked sometime to a gun per platoon for example. Which largely helped negating Georgian manpower advantage) but to call upon command in Vladikavkaz or Moscow, or just keep in touch with the units on the other side of Roki tunnel to tell them what they needed to send across first, they had to use civilian lines else setup a stupid big relay radio net in every pass (which in retrospect they should have done earlier).
Well the main problem wasn't the way the command/control system worked, if anything theirs worked very well, the 2 core issue were:
1) The Caucasus units weren't geared toward mechanized warfare, they were geared toward counter-insurgency. As such they were largely left out of modernization programs since most of their units were operating in company sized units against rebels used to worked in small combined units format but very rarely above battalion levels.
This resulted in small units used to work in small interarms groups but using completely outdated equipment.
2) That was compounded by the fact the Georgians were using the similar gear in aspect (Su-25 for example. The Su-25 factory was actually in Georgia IIRC), which created a serious IFF problem that would never had occurred when that old gear was designed.
Again while it was clearly flawed, it largely wasn't something that couldn't be fixed by straight up modernizing, because topology and poor reliability is the main reason why satcom is a thing.
On the plus side the Russian command noticed that the small units/small battery tactics the Caucasus units had developed in Chechnya and how a great autonomy of competent junior commanders was really really effective even against a real army in particular in an urban setting and generalized and modernized it (we've seen that again since in Ukraine and Syria).
Soviet armies were always inter-arm armies, the smallest soviet unit brigade/regiment were always interarms units.
A basic battalion always had all kind of attached fire support batteries (AT by, AA by, Arty by) and had organic fire support units (Mor co, AAA co) and therefore was always horizontal and vertical.
Soviet had very rigid doctrinal organizational responses to situations to palliate gigantic armies and passable junior officers that go with it… which is used by people with not much knowledge in such matters to deride them but frankly the array of those doctrinal responses indeed covered most situations just fine.
The idea that you will make shit up as you go only looks good on paper. It's fine if you're Rommel or Napoleon but rare are the officers of such caliber.
A textbook response isn't a bad thing if it's a good textbook…
What a loaded comment, do you just listen to RFE or something?
Jesus fucking christ man… they overran a country in 3 weeks. At height of its power NATO attacked a weaker country for 3 months and did almost zero damage.
This is an outright lie, they ride on top because Russia maintains a policy of soldiers riding 'desant which is from French for "descend".
Their missiles are in general superior or equivalent to American, no one else comes close, same for aircraft. Aside of America and France, Russia is the only country that has the full production line from digging ore out of the ground to building a modern fighter, within their borders.
All this shows is that Russian commanders have the balls to risk their lives to make the OODA loop shorter.
No APC is protected against strikes by large caliber weapons or land mines, riding desant has nothing to do with that.
Remarkable? Compare it to the attacks on Yugoslavia again, not by one country, but by the entire NATO alliance. 38 aircraft downed minimum, independent claims go above 60 aircraft.
Fucking joke, pic related. NATO literally had to work with terrorists to get anything accomplished in the Yugoslav war.
tl;dr Reuters is trash.
I use Yugoslavia as a comparison because it was roughly the same size and power as Georgia in 2000s.
On one hand you have a 20+ nation coalition fighting a small country and barely achieving its goal in three months, due to political wrangling and bombing civilian industry, doing next to no military damage to the enemy.
On the other hand you have one army from a single country fighting a small country and achieving its goal in a few weeks, no political tricks needed.
That's roughly comparable to USAREUR defeating Yugoslavia on its own in two weeks, which manifestly didn't fucking happen.
I'm sorry, the Russians might not be "modern", but they have this shit down pat.
ROLLING
Nigger you are literally fucking retarded. How do you force Georgia to keep getting its energy from Ingursk plant with "no political tricks"? To keep staying fucked by the "mutual energy exchange agreement" with russia? Sell out 75% of the "Telasi" (biggest Georgian electric energy distributor) stocks to the russian "investors"? Make zero effort to blow up the Roki Tunnel which was a pretty damn obvious path for the invasion years before it happened? Etc etc etc. A kitten dies every time a completely incompetent faggot like you posts another pile of garbage on topic he knows nothing about. For the love of motherfucking Allah, hang yourself and make world a better place.