Another piece of information revealed another Western tank bites the dust.
Challenger tank is shit
Eli Roberts
Brandon Jenkins
It could be a Land Rover with a mounted FN MAG and it would still beat Russian tanks.
Xavier Wilson
Somehow I doubt the validity of your document from just one part
Also 630 RHA pen will destroy any Tank.
John Peterson
That's Challenger I, it says right in the same sentence that Challenger II and III doubles that.
Jace Cook
Doubles glacis to same 500mm RHA as turret
Pls. Westaboos not so long ago counted 700-800-900mm RHA kinetic protection on their tanks.
Christopher Allen
Granted it would be nice to equip it with barrel launched ATGMs, and review the decision to keep the rifled gun, but what the hell does Denmark know about tanks anyway?
Michael Long
lel, they're just obsolete targets for aircraft
Tonks will go the way of the battleship friendos
Logan Edwards
Aircraft won't be too far behind them m8.
Nathaniel Butler
Now, now, not all tanks have helicopters reactors in them.
Matthew Campbell
Nah, you have to carry the missiles into action somehow.
Luis Powell
Except tanks are great for nations that have little or no air power, including North Korea.
EXCEPT NONE FROM THE MODERN ERA.
Austin Morgan
But user, with their An-2s North Korea can easily insert special forces teams behind our lines, causing our entire offensive to collapse.
Hudson Torres
[laughs in discarding sabot]
Cameron Edwards
You laugh when your only air defense is a stinger crate per battalion and your airforce doesn't go lower than 10 000ft, even an An-2 becomes a problem…
Luckily Worst Korean takes war a bit more seriously than burgers…
Grayson Perez
Is the Stinger even sensitive enough to reliably pick up an An-2 engine?
Asher Peterson
Nice gorillion dollhair kite you got there, would be a real shame if it got shot down.
Landon Hughes
Yeah, but an F-117 isn't an F-35. Stealth technology has come a long way since then, and as Israel has proven, the F-35 won't be easily taken out by an S-125, or even the S-200! Although it's destroyed by birds. So it's pretty much undefeatable. Lockheed does it again!
Nathan Perry
>inb4 some hungarian mongol comes sperging in
Carter Baker
My point exactly.
I gonna go with "probably, but not at the same range as it would a jet".
Joshua Perez
To be fair, wasn't that 117 flown at the exact same time through the same passage consistently, escorted in the middle of several non-stealth aircraft?
Gabriel Hill
and when the vehicle carrying the missiles gets shot down a few dozen kilometres before it gets anywhere close to firing range, what then?
Camden Sullivan
DANI
A
N
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Elijah Evans
Good luck when you fight real war with equal oponent
Brody Turner
Yeah, but only if you gave the tanks to arabs.
Hudson Brown
Brayden Nguyen
Fucking beat me to it
Charles Rodriguez
< he actually believes this
Oh man, LOL. It's hilarious people actually believe this happens when you DON'T park your armour out in the open in the desert like the Iraqis did.
Thanks for the chuckle.
Chase Mitchell
Hello Vlad
Cameron Wood
Challenger II is overrated, we all know that. But compared to the garbage that is the Leopard 2A5, 6, 7 and anything after, it is better armored. Not even the Abrams can compete.
However, I was always interested the kike tank. Have they even lost a single one yet? Do we have details on it's armor? How does it's armor compare to modern MBTs? Looks pretty thicc
Elijah Cooper
They keep flipping them over somehow
Jaxon Martinez
Oh nevermind, it looks good but it is actually a tincan. I forgot that the Jews make this and they would never waste precious shekels on stuff like this.
steelbeasts.com
Brayden Fisher
John Jones
Where the hell are you finding these supposedly "secret" documents?
Christopher Ward
had another overdose of semen?
Luke Young
In the google. Praise stupid Swedes.
Nolan Russell
Hm, now the real question:
are they real, leaked secret documents, or deliberate disinfo?
Lucas Stewart
This is classified information.
Brandon Bailey
How could we possibly know for sure?
Jeremiah Miller
All those upgrades and the poor thing is still stuck with a dead-end gun and no CITV for the ones in British use.
I wouldn't want to have to argue as to whether they are legit or not, but the numbers don't seem too out of the normal.
John Murphy
You're pulling my leg!
Lincoln Anderson
Meanwhile in the real world the first two are what happens to Turkish Leo2 when hit by AT-7s (yes wikipedia is a sauce and says they're A4 but they're not, they bought old German A4 from west German surplus and then they were then refitted to be at A6 level of protection by a joint Turkish/German venture. Now I'll grant that roach quality is what it is but in theory at least those have a much more modern armor packages than A4s).
Last one is what happen when a real AT-14 hits…
Xavier White
Wyatt Morales
...
Kayden Morales
This is classified information. But Russian declassified field manual for SA-7 is in the google. Yes even this ancient MANPADS with non cooled seeker can engage piston engine planes and helicopters.
Easton Brooks
Yeah and all the UAE Leclercs except 1 (well the tank itself survived, the crew not so much…) so far have shrug off everything threw at them (while Saudi M1A2S have ended up the same as Turkish Leo 2 even against bootleg Iranian AT-3s).
Oh and the UAE don't even have ordered the proper "urban kits" with added reactive armor, just basics rear cage armor and anti-molotov tiles on the engine…
Nathaniel Baker
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Tyler Bailey
Careful mate, you will make the kraut asshurt again. They still believe that the Leopards aren't literal tincans armor-wise
Carter Edwards
Except it can carry more, unless you're talking a CH-53E
Rocket pods, bombs, napalm canisters, etc. I'd have to dig, but pretty sure it can carry more, and more weight too. With a minor upgrade, it copuld carry missiles as well.
Jaxson Rivera
Despite being a piece of garbage, the Leo 2A4 is the sexiest tank around.
Change my mind.
Gavin Robinson
Josiah Barnes
Trash
Jason Watson
Jacob Reyes
Arabs have been blowing them up for ages.
Lebanon War:
Kayden Roberts
...
Jose Ramirez
Why did I greentext this
Joseph Ward
Best IRST in the world is mounted on F-35, and it has a range of a few kilometers for detecting a tank with a TURBOSHAFT engine.
If you're seeing a tank on IRST, his organic air defense is sure as fuck seeing you, no matter how many billions of dollars your jet is layered in.
Yes but range is 5 times less.
So instead of engaging the An-2 at 3km (the stinger engagement range for jets), you're engaging him at 600m. That's a bit retarded.
Especially if they're crazy enough to fire a few flares from it.
>Yeah, but an F-117 isn't an F-35.
>Yeah, but an F-117 isn't an F-35.
Yeah, but an F-117 isn't an F-35.
No it's worse, picrel.
No it wasn't, don't try to lessen the failure.
Helicopters can carry less weight than planes, this includes weapons, armor, and personnel.
Eli Ortiz
No they did not. That's against HEAT which somehow along the way got translated to being against SABOT but it is not. Against a Kinetic penetrator most Tanks will be lucky to score 500mm at max. If anything your OP document has done nothing but highlight the Challenger as being one of the best protected MBT's if it's scoring 500mm at it's minimum against a Kinetic penetrator.
The Merkava is one of the most overrated Tanks in existence and they've lost countless numbers of them. What it does have going for it though is that it's crew protection is ridiculous so the chances are that if when the Tank gets hit you will survive.
Roaches don't know how to use Tanks. More news at 11. Their M60's have actually been surviving better than their Leopard 2's but that's cause their Pattons are nothing but ERA and spaced armor
Overall though sage cause OP is a fucking cuckchan retard that does not know how to read at all and made a bait post.
Evan Perry
L O L
Angel Evans
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Dominic Roberts
RAM doesn't reduce it by a whole order of magnitude mate. If it did, we wouldn't need the maths at all.
Samuel Hall
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic there.
Looking back at it, I can't see any direct mention of that being a factor in the shootdown, but rather NATO aircraft in general having that habit. I'm not entirely sure the details, since some sources claim that the 117 was only detected when it opened and others that the modified radar was able to reliably track it as it.
Jason Jenkins
to be fair you can give them top of the line tanks and they still manage to fuck up
Evan Phillips
The abrams is such a gigantic piece of shit that even goat-fucking inbred sandniggers can blow it up with nearly a century old rpg-7's.
Alexander Hill
I know. Saudis abandoned fully armed and ready M1A2s after being engaged with DShK fire.
Jacob Clark
Camden Wood
We really should have cast the entire project overboard, why the Pentagon thought it would be a good idea to field an MBT based on a German design is beyond me.
Brody Taylor
Let's discuss the spectic tanks. The Arjun 2, and the Tank EX. The Arjun 2 is a heavy MBT that is indigenously built actually tons of foreign made parts slapped together . It is the heaviest tank in service in the world today. It's composite armor can supposedly stop a 125mm APFSDS round at point blank. It's armed with a rifled 120mm gun that can fire HES rounds and LAHAT ATGMS. The tank EX is basically the Arjun's little brother. It's a t72 chassis with an Arjun mk1 turret. No further comments neded.
Luke Thompson
You seriously trust them on this? It uses one of the most utterly retarded armor layouts ever seen in history. Even a fucking WWII round would go through this like butter.
As for the rest of the tank, it doesn't seem any better than a Leopard 2A4. I would be surprised if it managed to stop anything other than some cheap ATGM. Against another tank this thing is as goof as dead unless it manages to get the first hit.
It truly drives me mad that countries can't be arsed with making a properly armored tank. We won't be fighting retarded shitskins armed with cheap RPGs and ATGMs forever. Sooner or later first world countries will go to war and it will be a proper war.What kind of subhuman is okay with putting his own countrymen in deathtraps that will blow up the moment any tank hits them? 2 centuries of tank research and development and for some dumb reason we have reached the conclusion that we need to make tanks that are less than 60 tons in weight and have only barebones armor at the front that may or may not stop old soviet ATGMs.
Justin Perez
As with all things pajeet they made it even shittier than the tank they based it on
Sauce: defence.pk
William Gray
Don't forget about the gun blowing up and the engine not being able to handle high altitudes.
Caleb Clark
Are you both retarded?
No tank will happily take ATGM hits to the side.
Then where is the extra NERA armor an A6 would have?
Cameron Stewart
...
Jason Long
Could be worse; without German influence, a pure(heh) 56%er tank would have performed worse than a t-72. Luckily, you won't have to use that tank against anything but sandniggers.
It's funny how streetshitters have billions for armament but not a single cent for a working sewage system.
Aiden Sanchez
btw why are you trolling this board like an infant retard, shouldnt you be busy paying back all the debts you made to the eu and other jewish banks
Andrew Gutierrez
Nice SAM battery you have there. Too bad it can't track a target at any meaningful ranges without a network of high powered radars guiding it.
Cameron Price
A simple "yes, I am retarded" would have sufficed.
Nathan Green
There's 3 of us
The only people who use that term are literal normalfaggots or lefties. And no, I'm not 'trolling'. You're just so hilariously delusional that you think I'm actively trying to anger you. Just accept the fact that your tanks are garbage and your entire country in general. Germany died in 1945 and fuck off.
Oh nevermind, I stand corrected. A nuGerman faggot also happens to be a lefty. Hitler and the millions of white men who trusted in him are rolling in their graves.
Excellent work at explaining why modern tanks aren't piles of garbage that get taken out by literal sand monkeys.
Pic related a tank with alleged over 6 gorrilion RHA protection is taken out by shitty ATGMs because super powerful latest technology MBTs have all their armor at the front and leave their sizes thinner than a fucking WWII's tank.
Gavin Foster
It would've been different if the M1A2 was an M1A3, and the Leopard2A4 were a Leopard2A7. It literally doesn't even matter anyway, because the tankers were Arabs, or Turks, etc. and you don't even need armor on the sides. It's as useless as a tank being able to fire an ATGM. Checkmate, Russian troll!
Anthony Ross
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Logan Russell
launch them from continental US. all of our wars will now be fought with hypersonic stealth cruise missiles that use genetic imaging to detect >56% genetic purity to make sure no american is killed, and will fly all the way from florida to whatever shithole without being detected or being able to be shot down.
Aaron Torres
I know of one.
Juan Morris
No, you don't know one.
Also take note of how it has the same hull-storage layout for ammunition as the Leopard 2.
John Parker
You do realize that a leclerc and a Leo 2 have virtually the same width?
And one as a turret that go all the way to the skirt and the other doesn't?
Yet the Leclerc turret has less side armor than even a leo2A4 (which also has storage on both side, have to put that shit somewhere)?
All the estimations for the Leclercs are for the turret armor, but all Leclercs have a NERA blocks array before that that is systematically ignored, because french tank design armor is uniform 360° armor, while german/US tank design is 'put all the armor at the front".
Aiden Davis
How much does this extra armor affect the speed?
Elaborate on when the French decided to do this please? I'm interested to see the philosophy behind it
was it because the maginot didn't work and so this time yall fucks went a full line across the border this time?? Or was it because the use of the reverse gear is needed to engage the enemy?
Isaac Gutierrez
Extra weight reduces speed unless you add a more powerful engine
When they realised that stale bread wasn't really a useful armour material on their MBTs.
Angel Perez
I was asking for a estimate on how much it affected the speed. Pardon me.
Christian Carter
Oh boy, look at all those sources!
Connor Powell
Tank designers and even warship designers knew better than this over 100 years ago. Tanks with enhanced frontal protection will beat tanks with uniform protection 100% of the time. No amount of 300mm RHA coverage is as good as 1000mm RHA of frontal arc-only coverage. A literal uniformly-armored tank would be a deathtrap which any modern AT weapon could easily kill in any situation, so I can't imagine you meant this literally.
Aiden Murphy
Fair point, the Leclercs only advantage was its speed, cutting a single kmph off that makes it basically worthless - considering that it's defenceless against a 1970's vintage Fagot (which seems rather apt).
Nicholas Baker
It doesn't it's not meant to be used without it.
It's purely semantics, it's not part of the turret armor, it's additional armor modules. But it's how the tank was designed from the get go (in fact the storage part is 100% designed to be even more armor modules if there is a need for it, that way you would have an ERA row before, the NERA row for example).
Same with the skirt. See all the bolted thin plates it's placeholders for ablative armor modules.
The Leclerc is simply NOT in the same generation of tanks as the M1 and Leo 2 the thing has been designed completely differently with the idea that armor material evolves faster than armor platforms and modularity in combat is a big fucking plus.
It has a core armor which is typically where it's specs come from and is literally the minimum, most of it's protection is on the parts that are removable from it and greatly varies depending the threat profile and mission assessment.
Has to move a lot? Dump the armor for more fuel efficiency.
Excepting T-90s? Add plates of ablative armor.
Excepting ATGMs? Add even more ERA.
Much better armor material exist? just make some modules.
Tanks is damaged? Remove the module, put a new one.
Explosive are expired? Remove them put new ones.
You don't have to drive the tank to the factory every time you can do it with a field workshop.
All future tanks will be like it (the armata is even a step further with crew/combat/propulsion modules). Modernized tanks have some elements of it (but are hindered by the legacy platform's design).
Sure.
Except for two little tiny tiny details.
==1. TANK DUEL ALMOST NEVER HAPPEN IN REAL WARFARE.== It's the bayonet charge of the cavalry.
2. When they do happen: the tank that fire first, usually touch, and the first to touch usually wins.
So you're gonna design a vehicle around the armor that is gonna be useful in 0.1% of the fighting it's gonna do?
Armoring tanks to fight against other tanks of the same generation is pants on head retarded. Tanks need to be armored against EVERYTHING ELSE but other tanks.
If they ever have to fight other tanks, that's what the metal masterwork gun, the ammo made of shit that is as rare as gold is for and the insane electronic suite to fire it accurately is made for.
Oh boy look at the burger that think his eyes aren't sources but shit someone wrote with paint before posting it to a forum is.
That's the prime example of why US tank design is so wrong. A tank is NOT a warship. It never was.
The romance of great tank battle on vast plains is just that: a fantasy.
No. Not even in WWII. Tanks in WWII were overwhelmingly defeated by… AT weapons. Not other tanks. Because tanks not only evolve on terrain (meaning taking cover as a tank is a thing) they evolve in combined warfare as a result they will NEVER EVER intentionally engage in face to face with both side being aware of the situation.
Because it's as retarded as bringing your troops squarely to face each other and have them fight. It's against everything modern warfare is.
Except Leclercs have been engaged for YEARS now in Yemen and the houtis blew up at a least a dozen of M1A2S (which are M1A2 with the armor package of the M1A3 program), the kurds/IS blew up almost ALL the Leo2 the turks deployed, to the point the Turks withdrew them for their M-60 + heavy ERA and IS has basically killed all the M1 the US had left in Iraq.
Meanwhile the UAE reported 2 leclerc written off, 1 after the commander took a tandem HEAT to the torso, it was deemed repairable as no vital parts of the tank were damaged and it didn't burned out or anything (likely just spalling effect) and 1 that took a fucking ballistic missile (houthis flying trashcan) lucky warhead on it, in a base (empty but hatches open).
There was various detracking and multiple impacts of everything the houthis have but so far they're holding very, very well.
Hence why KDNS has presented the "Leo2 chassis with Leclerc turret" thing, they except to sell a fucking lot of those.
Cooper Jackson
Give me an RPG and a tunnel to hide in. I'll impregnate the bitch.
Gabriel Evans
No you won't.
Have you ever seen a leclerc from the back?
Cameron Cook
Have you seen one from underneath?
Lucas Jackson
I'm sorry Frenchie; I don't have X-ray vision. I still see no proof that your expedient surrender vehicles have even armor distribution.
Battle of 73 Easting.
Cameron Bell
Well there is an escape hatch under it that's for sure.
You can always IED it, no problem. You can IED anything.
Explosive and shovels are cheap.
Landon Green
Have you ever used an RPG facing up?
Angel Barnes
If a french men want to blow up a T-55 crewed by shitskins he uses a ERC-90 sagaie.
Anything else is a waste of resources. (French AMX-10 RC did the same against Iraq at a smaller scale, obviously. Does it mean an AMX-10 RC is equal to a M1A1? Or that the Iraqi were really really really shitty?).
William Taylor
Leclerc is actually the most modern, well armed, and well protected western tank. Which is pretty sad considering both Chinks and Russians came up with newer tanks after it.
That's only true up until the early cold war actually, which is why TDs and assault guns were still viable back then. Biggest predator of tanks today isn't another tank, it's a RPG, ATGM, bomb, a cluster bomb, an artillery shell, a missile, and an airborne autocannon. Even IFVs and stationary AT guns claim more tanks than other tanks.
All around protection helps you a lot more today.
The only major "tank vs tank battle" of the last 50 years was gulf war, where the enemy was stationary and using his tanks as pillboxes, which were underarmored and shooting training ammo
William Miller
And daily reminder that pic related is more resistant to ATGM than a fucking chobham armor.
Parker Morales
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