Is It Time To Stop Supporting The Kurds?

I support what they stand for, but the fact that they could be used as a tool by imperialist forces makes me feel a bit uneasy.

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Press TV is actual state-owned Iranian propaganda

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This is some really low effort bait.

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come on now, anti-imperialists have had 3 years to learn two propper nouns, and they're still trotting out the same flawwed arguments

Remember when Jason Unruhe just flat out lied, and said "especially the Syrian aspect of Kurdistan" in the commentary of some video about the KRG, which didn't have even remotely a reference to Rojava (or Rohava, as Jason is still retardedly pronouncing it like it's a Spanish word, for no reason. FYI Rojava is pronounced like ROW-ZHUH-VUH)

Language is imperialism, you crypto-trotskyist mosad agent anarcho-liberal.

That article is talking about Iraq but yes
Any benifit to the socialist Cause Rojava gives completely overshadowed by it being a US Vassal and assistant to imperial powers in the region


I feel uncomfortable with them because they've turned their "Country that totally isn't a country" into a US Air-Strip and military launch pad

Interested to hear more. I was under the impression that the bases were mostly rudimentary dirt runways for recieving air transport, not that they hand any capability for arming or fueling aircraft or launching missiles. How do the bases in Rojava extend their abilities further than the bases that already exist in t*rkey, Cyprus, and other parts of the ME?

How do you even live, being such a flagellant anti-American? There's a US military presence in like every country on earth. Go out and kill a few soldiers if you feel so strongly.

Shouldnt the fact that Rojava allows US Airfields to exist in its territory be a big enough red flag?
It attempts to weasel its way out of this by claiming that the bases are "temporary" and will be gone once ISIS is defeated

It's not indicitive of anything besides ongoing military assistance. Anything beyond that is purely speculative

Because of Rojava's reliance on US support to defend itself from t*rkey it makes them being an independent entity from the US quite unlikely

Shouldnt the fact that syria allows russian Airfields to exist in its territory be a big enough red flag?

The get support from France and other countries, but military reliance aside that doesn't speak to anything regarding the currently existing socio-economic system in the area.

IIRC they only had an airfield in Afrin. America has proved itself to be the more dependable ally and defender against imperialism in this one instance, as ironic as that may be.

leaving aside the fact that this article is about the generally more pro-American Iraqi Kurds and not the YPG
gee i wonder if these two facts are at all connected to each other

That's impossible, Iran is a principled anti-imperialist actor you tudeh shill.

speaking of weaseling out, I asked you a question about the bases as military launch pads. if thats not actually true, then just admit you were speaking irresponsibly.

Kurdish nationalism can get fucked for all I care. Resisting America is far more important. If you want to support the kurds why don't you go over to rojava and help them absorb t*rk bullets? I'm sure they would appreciate it.

The YPG aren't nationalist.
So what are you doing to resist burgerland besides making a fool of yourself on an imageboard?

Yep Yep sure they arent….
You know thats why their 90% Kurdish and are fighting for a Kurdish Ethnostate

They're mostly Kurdish because they originate from a Kurdish area.
They aren't fighting for a state, let alone an ethnostate.

I'm collecting Neetbux every week while my mom microwaves tendies. Gotta destroy the system from the inside.

Because most non-kurds go to their own autonomous militias within the SDF or groups like the HXP, where non-kurds make up 60%.

Somehow I'm not surprised anti-imperialist praxis doesn't extend beyond your front door.


militia-ization is just how that part of the world operates. the governments of both Syria and Iraq are reliant upon a similar status quo.

They're actually fighting for an autonomous zone within Syria as an organ of dual power instead of an anarchist federation, but it's good to know you're carrying on the proud tankie tradition of posting without any knowledge on the subject.
The organization during civil war in a historically tribalistic area operates on what is rather than the opinions of an armchair general. Syria and Iraq operate the same way.

Yep sure they are right after those US bases leave right?
Rojava (And the US) are going to hand down a Kosovo Accords tier deal to Damascus which would make Rojava effectively independent by giving them "Autonomy" a deal that the Syrian gov would be Unable to accept thus giving the US the excuse to intervene to save da obressed Kurds who just want freedom

Tell me when are the military bases leaving?

I assume so.
DFNS and Syria are currently cooperating, if Assad doesn't wish to compromise then the YPG and PKK will return to their guerilla roots and continue on.
Are you implying that the Syrian government has not been oppressive to the Kurds?
Seeing as t*rkey is already targeting DFNS and the US doesn't want to attack a fellow NATO member, soon.

They are only cooperating as far as not openly attacking each other
When the t*rkish attack on Afrin was Imminent and SAA was asking for permission to enter the Area to help defend it the YPG Refused and chose to be wiped out of the region and have it fall into the hands of t*rkey instead
Yeah so just like i said America will keep its bases there to prevent a t*rkish Assault on the Area thus continuing the Vassalage of Rojava
First it was "When IS is defeated" then it switched to "When t*rks are defeated" (Which wont happen)
And now the US has announced they are prioritizing aid to Rojava
So no i wouldnt say a US withdrawl is coming "soon"

Chinaflag is an /int/-poster who thinks misspelling a word with a "B" constitutes an argument. if you haven't learned his MO yet, it's to defame America and "the west" with non-sequiturs and innuendo (recall the "Military launch pad airstrips"), and then represent his opponents as hysterical strawmen.

Strawmanning me as "Anti-American" isnt an Argument

I'm aware he's not here for an honest discussion, but seeing as his posts are the same as "anti-imperialists" make I might as well clear shit up for spectators while downloading Deadfire.

DFNS had begun talking to Syria a month before Afrin about an alliance and pro-government forces were arriving up until the siege to assist, the YPG's actions are far from the refusal you paint it as.
Burgerland will abandon the bases to avoid outright war with t*rkey and switch to giving weapons and equipment to play geopolitical 1776d chess and keep the manufacturers happy.
ISIS has technically not been defeated and "when t*rks are defeated" was never said, in fact it was stated that the US would scale back or pullout when conflict with the t*rks happened.
Are you aware how many times the US funded groups they end up fighting against a decade or two later?

Ill guess we will wait and see
Yes it has
The only Territory IS still holds is a patch of sand on the Iraqi border that actually collapsed a few days ago
Well it clearly hasnt happened
And as i have pointed out the amount of US aid to Rojava is Primed to increase

so what's the filter for t*rkey

It takes time to pull out, even if it is mostly dirt roads serving as landing strips. It's not like the US is capable of snapping its fingers and teleporting everything and everyone out instantly. This is the same force that can't account for 21 trillion burgerbux after all.
The assumption that US aid is equivalent to full blown alliance is faulty, else Obama would have been allied with DPRK. Aid to DFNS serves the purpose of paying weapons manufacturers and giving the finger to t*rkey while not causing open conflict.
That the US has funded and supported future enemies, like Iran which is topical given the link, is absolutely an argument regarding current and future geopolitical actions.
No, but we've got historical precedent that the US aids future enemies to accomplish short term goals, we've got the DFNS saying they aren't going to go capitalist for the US, and we've got the US's hostility to socialism. From this we can assume that the US will start packing up and leaving once ISIS is officially defeated.

I understand that but as of this point in time they arent even making an attempt to pull out at all
Its also done the exact same thing countless times except the Future enemy part dosent happen
So? Talk means nothing
And as far as i know despite the reforms made Rojava certainly isnt socialist (yet)
Why would the Americans have any intention to do that?
Are you actually taking the US govs word in regards to this situation
Once again i will point you to Kosovo

The Kurds have been divided up and oppressed by four fake nation-states. Why should they have more “loyalty” to fake nation-states created by the British and French than fellow Kurds? There are no Syrian people. Just Arabs, Assyrians and Kurds.

No because we no longer live in the cold war. “Muh burgers are le bad guys” is an outdated analysis of geopolitics.

Ive already posted a Response to you in the other thread on this topic

Because ISIS is technically not defeated, or at least was not so until very recently. It's absurd to expect the US to pull out the absolute second ISIS was expelled from a geographic area decided on by anons.
A socialist group is different from the nationalists burgerland plays nice with, if not outright enemies they certainly won't be long-term allies.
It's closer to socialist than the ML states left, with the possible exception of DPRK.
It's expensive to maintain airbases, even the minimal runways, in non-aligned areas and they already have them in the areas that are friendly to the US like t*rkey and Cyprus.

Ok like i said lets wait and see and come back to this one in a few more months then and see if the situation changes
Your assuming Rojava stays socialist Long term and isnt simply Co-Opted by America

The KRG is run by bourgeois tribal clans, mirrors burger democracy and free market capitalism, and actively works with t*rkey against the PKK
The DNFS/Rojava is DemCon Gang, a non-state solution, actively kills t*rks and assorted jihadists, and is multi-ethnic

shh…sh..shh don't post facts you'll upset the maoist

I already pointed out that Confusing Rojava with Iraq was wrong

Maybe if you read my posts you would have noticed that ;)

Embrace materialism and scientific socialism, revisionist.

Well anybody who had high hopes regarding this was pretty much an idiot to begin with. Kurdish struggle it pretty much a petit-bourgeois struggle, similar to the Cuban Revolution in 1958, which was first and foremost a struggle for national liberation and not for socialism, however, this was eventually turned into a revolution dominated by Marxist-Leninist ideology, so Cuba didn't degrade into another Vietnam, however, this is clearly not the case with Rojava.

Bookchin's writings are already utopian, but Ocalan revises them even more, to the point where I simply can't identify the class character of his movement, let alone the struggle for socialism. I find a lot of class collaborationism there, lots of "ethnic" struggles and liberal reformism, the rejection of materialism and scientific socialism, the rejection of the proletariat as the revolutionary subject, instead, it vows to protect private property and commodity production. I don't see why I would support Kurdish porky.

The only way I'd do so, is if I see a legitimate anti-imperialist struggle for national liberation, so that they can evolve productive forces, and there is no doubt that the Kurds have been mistreated by the right-wing Ba'ath governments of Iraq and Syria, The problem here is that Kurdish politics have ever since been extremly opportunistic. They have been aligning themselves with the USSR, t*rky or even Saddam whenever it suited their cause, Kurdish nationalism never had an internationalist character. Today, Kurds are de facto an imperialist proxy that ends up hurting the Syrian proletariat, by depriving Syria of it's energy sources, such as fossil fuel with the oil fields in the north, and now apparently also of the extremly important hydro energy, like the Tabqa Dam, this is effectively 50% of the Syrian energy production. Furthermore, it is an US proxy creation which launches strikes and military attacks against the Syrian people, and has US soldiers dressing up as YPG-militias.

In the end, the Kurds are nothing but right-wing liquidators due to their character of an imperialist proxy. Fueling imperialist wars and depriving other countries of their natural resources for corporate interest is antithetical to socialism (something they don't even adhere to). As a consequence, the Kurds also can not escape petit-bourgeois ideology, which can be seen in the attempts to ethnically cleanse of dislocate in occupied terrority.

This is just wrong

This is a complete strawman of Democratic Confederalism. It’s a socialist movement that seeks to replace companies with local economic councils. Also Tankies in the Middle East support it you retard.

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I find a lot dishonest and just outright false in this post, and throwing around words like liberalism isn't a replacement for an actual argument. The dogmatic adherence to marxist ideology is no subsitute for actual praxis. The achievements of the revolution in the area so far, the emancipation of woman and the creation of socialist organs of power and production, is not something that can just be dismissed, or even worse falsly characterized as "liberal". You falsely conflate the political factions aligned with or resulting from the PKK with that of the KRG, the two being completely different organizations with different political goals and motivations. The assertion of seizing syrian oil and the ability to create electricity in the name of "corporate interests" is completely lacking in any evidence, and contrasts to the actual selling off of syrian oil fields to Russian corporations. Please provide any evidence that the DFNS is selling oil or other natural resources to US or really any coporate interest.

Selling off of syrian oil fields by the Syrian government, that is.

MLs in the middle east don't have the option of playing spectator from the relative comforts of yuropoor or burgerland.

Sorry, some people don't have the luxury of living in the first world, selling pamphlets and trying to bring about the revolution by raising the minimum wage through parliament.

When did leninism fail exactly?

A major problem with your analysis that you presume that Kurdish opportunism, which certainly exists, does no equally apply to all Kurdish factions and areas. The issues is far, far more nuanced than what you describe.

The KCK are not bookchinites; they are DemCons which is certainly post-capitalist and socialist in nature. If you want to know what the PYD and PKK think; read Ocelan not Bookchin.

This is where your presumption that individual cases holistically representing "the Kurds" falls apart. The KDP are the only Kurdish group that allied with both t*rkey and Saddam. Not to mention the fact that this started a literal Kurdish Civil War because the PUK and PKK actually have a sense of morality and decided to fight against jash.

Apart from the time the PKK fought with Palestinians against Israel in Lebanon and fighting alongside t*rks against the AKP. Apart from those instances "the Kurds" lack international solidarity.

So does the oil and hydro power not benefit the proletariat in Rojava? and you do realise that Rojava and Damascus trade right? It's not like they are depriving them of resources. Besides, most of Syria's oil was sold directly to Europe though direct investment contracts from major oil companies. Very anti-imperalist if you ask me.

Nothing about the KCK, PKK and the PYD is "right-wing".

repeatedly claiming that rojava is an ethno-state is also wrong

The degeneration of the USSR and China into capitalist oligarchies is a failure in my book.

But that's even worse though.

The DNFS is not a separatist movement. The YPG gave up the dream of an independent Kurdistan with the formation of the SDF. Its a non-state solution to a unified Syria. It's also multi-ethnic and has councils for minorities. Read Apo and stop the ethnostate myth.
Tired of posting this but ISIS isn't defeated yet either. In Hajin they're putting up the largest resistance since Raqqa, probably because a certain caliphate leader is hiding there.
Also the YPG isn't 90% Kurdish. The taburs in Der ez Zor are 50% Arab. Not to mention the totally Arab DMC and Syriac MFS

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The PKK fought for an independent Marxist-Leninist Kurdish state for over 20 years and it got them nowhere. Their switch to DemCon and creating a multi-ethnic non-state society is a direct response to the failure of paramilitary ML tactics vs the t*rks.

They still are nowhere though and the t*rks are still killing them. The only difference is now they have US bases on their soil. Really makes you think.

They've created a fairly liberated society with socialist organs of power and gender equality. I wouldn't call that nowhere.

PKK in t*rkey =/= YPG in Syria
you sure you're not an Erdobot or are you just that illiterate


There doing a lot better now.

Except they dont though
Some Literally who Hoxhaist Groups and Anarchists support them
The actual Communist and socialist parties of Syria are in a popular front with the goverment

Are you denying the SDF is aiding an imperialist power in carving up Syria?

Oh so you admit they are literally not socialists then?

In actual Function it serves as a Separatist state entity
Read *Insert* isnt an argument

Imagine actually believing this LMAO
Yeah just because the YPG follows the ideology created by the fucking leader of the PKK that dosent make them basically the same as them ehh?

Again, there's lot of disigenous and dishonest points in this post. In regards to the communist parties being "literally who's", they're actually active guerilla groups fighting against a Nato power i.e. t*rkey. I have no reason to believe that the "communist" parties in Syria are anything more than controlled opposition, since they did not do anything to oppose the liberalization policies and selling off of state assets to forgeign Russian corporations besides through rhetoric. The DFNS orginally came into being when the government abandoned the area, and indeed gave arms and supplies to the YPG when it first came about. Supporters of the FSA have accused the DFNS as being collaboraters with the government numerous times because of this among other things. In actuality, the government is still paying state workers like teachers and providing other services within the DFNS, though to a limited degree. This might have changed without me knowing it, but IIRC that's still the case.

bullshit controlled opposition

like t*rkey, iran and russia?

rojava has far more legitimacy than a country literally created by imperialists

does anyone have that meme about all the different maoist groups in nepal

Here you go.

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you said it yourself, they're in a coalition with the government

read a book

but user, the us didn't stop them from being invaded by t*rkey with the tacit support of the saa

plot twist: all countries are artificial

are you 50 cent army or just a child with shit grammar


The offer was for the DFNS to hand over the area to the government, not just for the the government to come in and help while still maintaining their autonomy.

So instead of handing it over to the goveerment (The one they claim to be allied with btw) they decided to launch a Suicidal Last stand so t*rks could seize and ethnically cleanse the area

I'm not sure if they've ever claimed they were allied with them, just not outright hostile and sometimes collaborative, and they didn't resort to a last stand at all actually. They delayed long enough so the civilians could be evacuated and are currently engaged in a guerilla war with the TFSA in the area.

the offer was obvious bullshit, assad doesn't have the stones to actually declare war on a nato member


You niggaz need to watch J Barg's(AKA Adolf Stalin) videos on the Kurds

They aren’t imperialist. There a creation of the local population. That isn’t imperialist.

Every single M-L party in t*rkey has fighters in Rojava.


Citation Needed

Vatan Partisi is still anti Kurd though

Doğu Perinçek is NAZBOL

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They aren’t Leninist. There Homosexual. Also you do realize the true Nazbols in The Other Russia support Rojava as well.

Seriously though I want to support Rojava but the American connection is far too disgusting for me to handle. If they can't sustain themselves without the US then they all deserve to perish in a horrific blaze of fire and pain.

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I think the "american connection" is completely overblown considering how little the US controls the actual politics and economics of DFNS.

Hello Barg.

t. Siyonistler

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I'm sure they will be greatly saddened by the lack of support from a burger neet.

you don't realize, he was going to donate all the proceeds of his bake sale to the PYD.

Because the YPG clearly need your support.

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why bump lock?

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also, no u, faggot

yeah baked jews. a specialty of mine. nice roasted Capitalist meat

nice wordfilters too, that's awfully kosher. now I know why everyone thinks this board is a joke.