Seriously it's a trend I keep on seeing, most higher up NSDAP members were Leninists at one point with some partaking in armed revolt even with people like Alfred Rosenberg fighting in Bavarian Soviet Republic and many more I don't feel like citing, even fucking Mussolini was a member of several Socialist/Communist Organizations in Italy at one point. How come the most well known and hardcore of Fascists were all hardcore leftists at one point? What made them turn? I mean same goes for today with Fascist groups like the Atomwaffen Division and National Action with them admitting that lots of their members being former Anarchists and Communists at one point in their lives or their members being doxxed and found out to be fmr. members of Leninist and Anarchist groups at one point. This has been boggling my mind for a while. I'm not a leftist btw it just really makes me think so I thought I'd ask here.
How come the most radical and most well known of Fascists were all leftists at one point?
A noticeable amount of the fascist groups are actually third-positionists who support at least a some leftist economic ideas, or just social democratic welfare-statism, but only for white people.
They fell for the spooks
I believe those people just desperately wanted to see a radical change in society but lost faith that the left could be able to do such change so they moved to the next thing which they believe it's radical enough to bring changes.
Leftists in general just love to read their damn books, have intellectual debates with their peers and engage in "mental masturbation" instead of applying anything they've learned in practice, so if you are the type who is eager to see things getting done leftism will probably disappoint you.
This. I was more or less a "fascist" for years until I sat down and started reading theory and realized what Fascism actually was. It doesn't help that liberals are constantly trying to cast fascism as simple authoritarianism (which is not inherently bad) in an effort to obscure its very strong relationship to the interests of capital.
they weren't but ok
likely bullshit, for the same reason you're doing this now
pretty obvious that's not the point of this disingenuous shitpost
They lost heart and left.
They betrayed us for medals.
Scum sucking turncoats who's souls are for sale.
A lot of fascists who left the left that even I've talked with cited that on how groups do nothing but bitch and squander over dumb shit all day while fascists actually do shit with their time though this is 100% a first world problem considering leftists in poor countries actually do shit and don't post online all day about how to pronounce this or why this is stupid considering they don't have luxuries to keep them in such an area of inaction if you will
Like I remember reading about how communists in Germany in the 30s did nothing but bitch with one and other and that was a major turn off to those actually wanting to do shit so they were easy recruitment for the NSDAP, This is something I see even now tbqh, people would rather bitch and moan about dumb shit instead of actually doing something, this just wards off actual useful people in my opinion anyways.
do you mean the spd and kpd?
bullshit, the left vote stayed strong throughout the early 1930s, the nazis picked up most of their votes from the right or the centre, and in power it was first they came for the communists
Even Hitler was in the Bavarian Socialist Military during the communist insurrection by Rosa Luxembourg. The reason they left the left is because they got rid of their spooks and got smarter about things
The original Nazi party's leadership actually surprisingly DOESN'T have much origins among the left. Otto Strasser, the only one with leftist originals, came from the center-left and wasn't even that involved with the origins of Nazism. The other exception I know of would be Hitler himself, who might have actually participated in the Bavarian Soviet Republic. However, I would more put this to his unit defecting to the socialist government than Hitler's actual political views, which were rather incoherent at the time.
However, the Nazis' ideological origins, unlike the Italian fascists, consisted of right-wingers who embraced certain left-wing ideas, though you can even say that the shift towards nationalism as opposed to cosmopolitan monarchism within the far-right was in a way part of this synthesis of political positions. The Nazi leadership was more either vaguely right-wing or apolitical, and a significant portion of the Nazi party's ideological origin comes from extra-political movements like volkisch and neopagan organizations like the Thule Society. The left-leaning Nazis tended to be apolitical soldiers who were suddenly thrust into politics on the side of nationalism, taking their working-class sensibilities with them.
The rank-and-file of the Nazis, meanwhile, was a diverse mixture of every social class in Germany. From middle-class professionals to workers to farmers to aristocrats to industrialists, the Nazi movement definitely achieved the aim of Volksgemeinschaft when it came to mobilizing an electoral base. The SA itself was largely working-class though, and members of the SA would regularly switch between it and the Reichsbanner and Red-Fighting Front. This led to a strange situation where all three paramilitaries were very similar yet were all fighting against each other for purely ideological reasons.
Do note that both the Communists and Social-Democrats were very much willing to have Germany annex all German-speaking lands. The only reason the Weimar Republic didn't do it was due to France's meddling. In fact, it was the traditional German right that opposed Anschluss, mostly due to fearing the inclusion of more Catholics into Germany. The same was true for the traditional Austrian right, who feared being dominated by a majority Protestant Germany. (And, the fact that the social democrats or even the Nazis would bring about a more leftist regime that would rob them of power.)
Now, for modern Nazis or Neo-Nazis.
To say that Neo-Nazis, who were entirely divorced from the original, German Nazi movement, are the same as the latter is completely delusional. Neo-Nazis emerged in a political climate where every Western/white nation is at relative peace and the 'Left' had embraced identity politics entirely at the expense of economic issues. In this sense, Nazism is the only alternative between liberalism and extremely socially liberal 'leftism'. Add this to the New Left alienating the white working class, and you have a recipe for leftists jumping ship and embracing ultranationalist politics. Many of the activists within leftist organizations understood this and acted accordingly. They joined leftism thinking it was the same as that of the 20th century, but it isn't. This disappointment leads them to the only alternative, 'far-right' politics which is surprisingly leftist economically. This is why they particularly joined Nazi/Fascist organizations and not say, Libertarian or traditional right-wing organizations. You can even say that Neo-Nazis are truly about 'Workers of the world uniting', in the sense that they want to promote their ideology among the white working-classes of every white nation, which all were the traditional bastions of socialist movements. They're marginalized place in society also ironically has made them more liberal when it comes to free speech. Being at the other end of the censorship barrel changes your perspective on things like the Führerprinzip and using secret police. Again, it is not ideology that determines the material, but rather the material that determines the ideology. Due to their material conditions, Neo-Nazis have changed Nazism to suit their tastes. And, in this case, this is a good thing, and something that they should embrace.
As for fascism proper, Italian Fascism and Nazism had very different origins and generally were quite different besides a few overarching similarities that can be placed to the general circumstances of the period. (Circumstances that affected liberal democratic and communist states alike, which is they ALL embraced interventionist economic policies, militarism, and nationalism to some degree.)
Italian Fascists, including Mussolini, came from a specific national-syndicalist current of the Italian Socialist Party as well as the nationalist Italian Nationalist Association, which was hijacked quickly by Corrodani's ideology. The history behind it is complex, and I have repeatedly mentioned it here.
I think the Bavarian Council Republic's leadership to be far more entertaining to read about.
Daily reminder that the Foreign Affairs Deputy was mentally unstable and threatened war against Switzerland for failing to send 60 locomotives to the Republic. Oh, and informing Lenin of the important matter of Hoffman (the former Minister-President of the area) taking the key to the toilet with him when he left.
Mussolini was a Syndicalist/SocDem
Thats the only big one i can think of though
wow, didn't know that leftypol bo was that old
Um excuse me dont make fun of those with a Mental Illness even as a joke you ableist shitlord
Because nazis are leftists, duh. They just don't read Marx and they hold racist views.
t. Black hole brain
HORSESHOE THEORY CONFIRMED
Where did it all go so wrong?
I am physically disabled with ehlers-danlos and I can say better than you you ableist SHITLORD we can defend ourselves on this.
Imagine believing this. not socialism is not all of fascism.
Hitler was involved in the Bavarian Soviet as well fam
they all abandoned the left because of jews
This meme seriously needs to die. The only source for this was a garbage section on the wikipedia article that was so bad it got deleted by the moderators.
It was mentioned in the recent biography of Hitler by Volker Ullrich. I'd have to check the source though
stop smoking weed when posting dude
Anyone have a good explanation for how and why (apart from sheer selfishness) Mussolini flipped?
I get capitalism's tendency to buy off the leaders of any leftist (even socdem) movement and how leaders, by their very position as prominent politicians, have a strong personal incentive to be well to the right of the rank and file. But I still don't get how someone goes from getting thrown in prison for protesting the Libyan War to embracing WWI and leading right-wing death squads within the space of a few years.
if he was it would have been as an informant for military intelligence anyway, seeing as that's how he got into politics
I get what you are saying, but I believe it's more important to figure out what's going on and come up with solutions, so that when the system does collapse, we will know what to do.
¿Por qué no ambos?
I believe he was drafted into the Italian Army in WW1 and war changed him, he basically had a mental breakdown since he was forced to kill people as a pacifist socialist
I mean same with Hitler, Hitler was a NEET you'd find on Zig Forums today but war changed him too
la razon de eso fue: por pendejos.
nazi = not socialism
Demonstrates how friable the current situation really is. All it takes is one big war. One big war and your incel Zig Forumsites will end up the next NSDAP in every sense of the word. The smartest will learn oratory, and the rest will become the disgruntled veterans of the new nationalist movement.
History repeats itself.
Shit's already happening, the war on terror combined with the 2008 crash has already created the seeds for radical fascism, see Atomwaffen Division my dude, they're literally preparing for a collapse of capitalism and taking over then and hold beliefs in accelerationism, similar in beliefs to many marxists except these guys are actually going out and doing shit unlike most marxists who'd rather sit around and debate dumb shit and be divisive to each other. Honestly though the left has more in numbers, it's filled with nothing but cowards who'd rather debate then do shit and now fascists through the book Siege (which advocates Fascists to adopt Marxist Tactics when it comes to taking over and is becoming more popular among Fascist groups) are actually doing the things that Marxists claim to believe in, in terms of tactics and such. Shit is just depressing.
What allowed them to be radical in the first place is that they knew their enemy very well, being themselves the enemy once.
And that's the problem with today's left: it has ridiculously poor understanding of its enemy.