More Than a Dozen F-22s May Have Been Damaged or Destroyed by Hurricane Michael

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archive.is /kLcGS

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_FB-22
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-5_Vigilante
airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/October 2018/Final-F-22s-Getting-Ready-to-Take-Off-from-Tyndall-as-Base-Continues-Recovery-from-Catastrophic-Hurricane.aspx
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Nothing of value was lost

Rood.


Blaming the hurricane on weather modifying Russian bots when?

This will be used as an excuse to buy more F-35s.

I hope they'll use it as an excuse to get the F-15X program going.

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...

It's okay, just build more.

Oh wait fuck

17 aircraft are nearly 10% of the total F-22 fleet, the cornerstone of the US' air-dominance. If half of them get scrapped then its more strategic damage inflicted to the USAF than all the conflict they have participated in since 'nam.

So that's why they're so keen on preventing global warming!

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You guys must realize the only reason they "were unable to escape with the rest of the base’s F-22 fleet" right?
They were already incapable of flying.

ayy

I would have forced the Navy to adopt the Sea Raptor, and build the FB 22 variant as well. That way the Navy would have a proper Tom Cat replacement.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_FB-22

30 Smart bombs, a co-pilot who can do the bomb-truck work.

I would build a stealthy Vigilante that has dual rotary bays so we could Macross Missle spam 60 Anti air missiles per aircraft,as well as being able to switch out for fuel tanks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-5_Vigilante

You need parts for that…

So stick them on a truck and drive them 3 hours away?

I would have forced the Navy to scrap the F/A-18E in favor of equipping every carrier worth a damn with F-14Ds and cancelled the F-35 in favor of building a small transitional force of ASF-14Es to iron out bugs in preparation for a full fleet transfer to F-14Fs in the 2030s.
I'd also have put the F-20 in production wether it be as an export or domestic aircraft, shoa'd the YF-22 in favor of the F-23, provided military support to Serbia throughout the 90s, cancelled all aid programs in the Mideast+Africa, maintained a well-trained and disciplined regiment of interceptors around Jew York and put canards+TVC on every USAF F-15 in active service by 2005.

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It wasn't though. You can't predict storms anywhere near that far ahead, at least not with any credibility.
The first indications were only a little more than a week before it hit.

Though excusable I am willing to bet they would not have such a hard time with restoring them to minimum airtworthy condition just to move them away if Obongo hadn't destroyed the production line's tooling and spare parts had better availability.

Combination of ATF-14 and complimentary alternative timeline Super Hornets that would be at the same weight and cost class as Legacy Hornets, would be the best answer. I am scared to even imagine what the Tomcat equivalent of the Growler would be. I am still not entirely convinced that dedicated stealth airframes would fare so well by constantly being sprayed with saltwater when the B-2 was such a hangar-whore.

You have my vote for new Merkel.

like pottery

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Reality is a shitpost.

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Is this really the truth? Even if all of the F-22 fleet was destroyed there's still bushels of F-16s to fall back on.

I kind of suspected the hype around F-22 was just that, hype. If Lockheed can't make a F-35 fly well, why would anyone believe they could do it with F-22?

Our timeline is the worst timeline.

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Checked for digits of truth.

F-16s are the backbone and F-15 are the spreatip.

F-22 is that seemingly small part that if its taken out the whole system would start to crumble by opening critical gaps for more sophisticated parts of the enemy offense to go through.

The F-22's only "disadvantage" was making compromises in aerodynamics and weapons space for the shake of stealth, that's the same reason why the F/A- label was dropped for the Raptor.

The F-35 is what happens when you disregard the reasons these compromises were made and try make it do what the F-22 could not within an even smaller, more space-confined and more underpowered airframe while trying to pack some extra-punch into it, and all these in an attempt to half the operational cost.
tl;dr: Lockheed claimed they would just beat physics if you kept throwing money at them

...

Was this ever more than a meme born out of NATO wanting to compensate for its small airfields during the Cold War?
The Harrier as the premier example of a VTOL capable attack aircraft doesn't exactly have the most stellar of service records.

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*VTOL capable fixed wing attack aircraft

As a personal anecdote, a family friend actually used to work as an aeronautical engineer for Lockheeb throughout the 90's-00's. While he was always pretty tight-lipped about his work, he absolutely hated his job and openly admitted that the project he was working on, which I always assumed to be the F-22/35, was bound to be a fucking mess if it ever got produced. His reasoning was that they were given an impossible project and told to just make it work.

To be fair, the Soviets flirted with the idea of VTOLs during one of their heavier vodka binges. That said, even starving, drunken Slavs were sober enough to realize it was a fucking retarded idea.

Some suggest that the newer jets like the F-22 were never actually needed and that modified versions of the F-15 and F-16 are enough, but the aerospace company executives wanted more money for coke and hookers, so they pushed a new series of pork barrel projects.


If the above claim is false, I surmise that this is likely to be the reason, though I'm not an expert on airframe design or assessing how much a jet is going to cost. Modern air defenses that would stop other jets can be bypassed by the F-22's stealth.

They also built the best type of VTOL, which lockheed cribbed and promptly ruined by misinterpreting key design parts.

It was better in terms of landing accuracy and controlability while the extra engines were dead weight in level flight. The harrier could at least use its TV nozzles for combat maneuvers and without the need of extra engines.

These don't have to be mutually exclusive. The F-22 is just capable of doing its job as being the best Air Superiority Fighter in existence, something that the F-23 and numbers of modernized F-14 and F-15 of the equivalent cost might had done better. The issue is that the whole ATF program was kind of redundant after the Cold War ended.

lolololol stupid jewpigs can't even make a good plane
It gets BTFO by air. Fucking air. Lololololol. Dumb mutts. Die.

The extra engines were actually structural components and part of the pilots armor. It permitted it to go supersonic and behave like an actual fighter in the air, which is what you need for smaller CAP carriers.

Harrier adds nothing to the fight that a propeler airplane, helicopter or gyrodyne couldn't perform.

why doesn't the air force train hurricane pilots then?

Uhm, excuse me? Did you just fucking suggest we put the F22s on TRUCKS and DRIVE them on CIVILLIAN roads to a safer location? Are you fucking retarded? Do you even know what you are talking about? They would have to start a research project dedicated to finding the optimal carrier vehicle for the F22, and possibly the F35 as well. A pre-assessment would have to be made to decide whether the F22-carrier fleet should be compatible with the F35 from the get go, if there should be a ddistinct F35 carrier, or if buying a system that can be later upgraded to the F35 carrier after the F22 has been phased out.
After deciding this, you would need to figure out what specific requirements are necessary, and see if there are any options already on the market. Of course there aren't, there never are.
So after another year of planning, you need to set up a contest for a contract about designing and building a new F22 carrier vehicle, which can transport an F22 from a military base to a safer location. After a couple years of development time, the first designs should be submitted by the competitors and evaluated by the Pentagon. At this point the project also requires a name, and something as simple as "plane transporter" won't work. So you have to sit a coupe of Lieutenants in a room and have them brainstorm for a month about the A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.E. that is supposed to represent this TOP SECRET project (because the enemy shouldn't know about our plane transport capabilities, duh).
After the project received a name, the name has been leaked to the public intentionally to cause fear and distraction in our enemies hearts, and the first designs have been evaluated, you would have to send the requested changes to the contestants, who would have to spend another few years developing prototypes. At this point you also need to get it through congress that you truly need plane transport capabilities, and to do that you need to promise everyone that as many pars as possible will be constructed all over the US.
Oh, and Boeing requires extra funding for their prototype, because the new optically-guided-aerial-combat-vehicle-transorting-system-engine-fuel-flow-adjustment-system (colloquially known as gas pedal) has had a few setbacks.
After the first few prototypes have been built and tested you could finally move into a troop testing phase, and after the troop tests have been successful, and without listening to the opinions of the troopers, you can finally order a couple thousand Boeing YT-147 plane transport vehicles.
Also, you need to consider counter intelligence, because the Russians will probably try to acquire our plans, so you have to make up a couple fake ones and send them to the producers, hoping that the Russians will intercept them, and use them instead of the real blue prints. Nothing can go wrong with sending contradictory data to anyone. Nothing.

It would take a decade and, if we are lucky, and a coupe billion dollars before we could transport planes like that. It would probably be cheaper to leave the F22s where they are and replace them with new planes. After all, they are old and outdated anyways. Add a few more F35s to the contracts,

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Can't one just remove the wings for the time being and put the plane fuselages on a train if the highways are too contested?
Would that risk precious intelligence leaking to the eponymous russian hacker?

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I don't think the F-22's wings were designed to be removable.

If the hurricane had missed by a few miles either way it would have been fine, they took the safest of a few bad options and got unlucky.

Yes, you can remove wings, but it involves disconnecting fuck load of hydraulic lines, electric cables and so on. It takes takes time, people and tooling like rigs for holding the wings. Doing that to 20 something planes at notice of couple days is impossible. It also closes a least two lane road, if not three lane road, requires removing road signs, lamp posts and shit from roads…. on a time when there is civilian evacuation in the area.

Even space shuttle can be moved on a road without removing wings, but it takes months to plan the route and road closures related to that.

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BOARD OWNER
I DEMAND THAT YOU RANGE BAN ALL MUTT IPS. AMERIMUTTS DO NOT DESERVE TO POST ON THIS BOARD LET ALONE ACTUALLY OWN GUNS WHICH RIGHTFULLY BELONG TO EUROPEANS.
I ALSO DEMAND LESS TALK ABOUT WEAPONS AND MORE TALK ABOUT HATRED OF THE MUTTS AS WELL AS TORTURE PORN MADE OF KILLING BURGERMUTT BABIES AND FORCEFEEDING THEM TO THEIR PARENTS BEFORE CHOPPING THEM UP.
DIE MUTTS DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE

This.
I'm willing to bet money there is no USAF approved way to move planes other than by flying them.

They were true when they said that German humor is not a laughing matter.

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When you are stationed in an area where extreme weather like hurricanes and tornados are expected should not you always have an escape route at hand?

I'd assume the month was more for removing street lights, signs, etc., as said. When I visited Iceland, I was surprised that there were places where the road didn't have lines or signs every few miles reminding people there were no lines due to construction. There was one park I went to (forgot the name) where you went around a hairpin turn into a one lane bridge blind down a 12% grade. That would never happen in the US. It'd probably require two people sit on both sides using large signs and walkies-talkies to coordinate traffic. Having a road permanently without signs, lights, etc. on it in America would never fly, even if it was to save billions of dollars in jets. There was one stretch of road in Iceland where it was dirt for 10+ miles, was paved for about 100 feet, then dirt for another 20+ miles. Shit was weird, yo

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Why didn't they just fly them?

problem solved.

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(checked)

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our good ol' Jew'd US government. Dumb as shit.

you're a faggot
and you have a faggot country

...

Well I guess we all know now that the F22 can't fly through a Hurricane.

Any rational person would presume the "escape route" for a military aircraft would involve the airplane flying somewhere else. In modern America, we can't take for granted that our impossibly expensive meme aircraft can do such secondary functions such as "flying" though… our military programs have to have priorities.

Only somewhat related, but I still find BUPERSINST to be the most entertaining military acronym I've heard.

Not too familiar with planes but is this thread implying F-22s are worse than F-35s?

no, they're far better than F-35s, so much that Lockheeb destroyed the tooling required to build F-22s.
What amazes me is that we store billion dollar planes in cheap ass dilapidated fucking hangers that can't withstand a storm, in the middle of storm prevalent regions. It's like those guys who buy expensive pistols and carry them in $5 holsters.

Not for this kind of magnitude acute transport operation. A fighter squadron simply doesn't have resources to evacuate everything with two day day notice, unless you are willing to hire a lot more technical personnel. Like five or ten times more than is required for day to day operations of squadron. Their mechanics were too busy fixing the planes they can get airworthy and fly away before they got the fuck out of dodge before storm hit.


Month or more planning is required in normal conditions to arrange for all traffic disturbances like closing roads,all the work that goes to that and prepping roads, like removing overhead signs. They need work crews for that when they move oversized cargoes, that usually stop for the day and move on the night. Then there is follow up crew that sets all signs, lamp posts and other shit they had to remove to make that oversized cargo pass. It is usually a local news story of there is some oversized cargo being moved that requires road closures. National level or even international news if it is something really really big and does something important like being last components of some major bridge or something.

Oversized cargo often requires road closures, in plural as many crossing roads needs to be closed for convoy to pass. They of need to pass things like highway over passes on ramps around those over passes. This where the lamp posts often have to be removed as too long cargo might not be able to turn on a highway ramp.

Iceland is kinda special place in every way possible. Tundra with frosting, iceflows and volcanism to ruin roads and stuff like road signs. Hell, Iceland as country has population of one major city/metropolitan area and practice it is one. 2/3's of population lives in Reykjavik and its suburbs. Rest of the country few small towns and villages.


Modern fighters are quite a lot more complex machines than WWII fighters. A lot more stuff to disconnect and much tighter tolerances for all the shit there is inside the wings.

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airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/October 2018/Final-F-22s-Getting-Ready-to-Take-Off-from-Tyndall-as-Base-Continues-Recovery-from-Catastrophic-Hurricane.aspx

Zero F-22s destroyed

By that logic my marriage hasn't been destroyed, since theoretically she will come back.

Meanwhile in 1957…

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Re-defining the facts is an form of art.

This is a huge issue since Vietnam war, when America lost a war due to telling the truth about casualties. Even though Vietnamese casualties were much larger, simply telling the truth about American losses turned the public against the war.

So ever since then, every time an Apache gets hit with a MANPAD…. it crashed due to malfunction or training accident or pilot error. And they literally airlift people from Afghanistan to brain surgeons in Germany to fix them up and turn a death into a "wounded" even if he's a vegetable.