Tfw knowing koine greek and can actually read the new testament in its original form

What Christian language do you know?

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Other urls found in this thread:

icotb.org/resources/GreekGrammar-Machen.pdf
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/13326/deliver-us-from-evil-or-the-evil-one-help-from-the-semitists
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/13343/did-matthew-intend-evil-or-the-evil-one-in-the-lord-s-prayer
m.youtube.com/watch?v=aK10AOoLflc
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:973&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:2129&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:1010&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I've wanted to learn Latin for the longest time, but never got beyond Latin prayers

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I know Latin so I can into Vulgate. Ha. I can’t read Greek without the interlinear though. I hope to fix that one day.

I'm thinking about learning Koine Greek to understand the Septuagint and the NT, in addition to the ante-Nicene Fathers. Then Latin, or the other way around.

Did you just use books to learn it?

Wanting to learn Koine Greek and maybe Church Slavonic though I know it won't be very useful but regardless I wouldn't know the first step on learning either anyhow. Any insight, anons? How'd you go about it, OP?

I watched Steven Anderson's introductory videos, and went on from there, using various online resources to learn the grammar. I have all the grammar memorized, and a fair bit of vocab as well so I can read smoothly. I'm by no means perfect but I can stand on my own feet well.

This

I'm learning latin.

I know koine, learned in college

This textbook was seriously helpful. Devour it and you. will know koine.

icotb.org/resources/GreekGrammar-Machen.pdf

Picture is noun case endings using the definite article; video is for verbs in the indicative mood.

Koine Greek Alphabet (Lowercase):

α = a
β = b
γ = g
δ = d
ε = e
ζ = z
η = e/i
θ = th
ι = i
κ = k
λ = l
μ = m
ν = n
ξ = x
ο = o
π = p
ρ = r
σ/ς = s
τ = t
υ = y/u
φ = ph/f
χ = ch
ψ = ps
ω = oo

Enjoy learning. Use Steven Anderson's intro videos for more info.

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English because the Word of God is written in it.

Anyone interested in Aramaic? Or modern Syriac?

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I know some Hebrew, if that counts.

is it worth it did you actually get greater understanding or did you get memed?

T. John Dee

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We should create an "ancient language general"; in order to practice and share resources/advices.

uhhh… you do realize it was written in english right?

I just looked at the Latin Vulgate. It’s so scary and to the point it makes even the Douay Rheims and KJV look like fairytales.

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Tis true. On the day of Pentecost James was gifted by the Holy Spirit to write everything in English even books that had yet to exist.
This writing become known as the king of above all other versions written in other langues
What he wrote came to known as the the KJV

Ecksdee

Yes, it was worth it. It helps decide which translations are good and which are shit. Also helps argue against heretics as well by going back to the original Greek.

Care to list good and bad translations?

Is the Novum Testamentum Graece: Nestle-Aland really the best version of the Bible in Koine Greek or is there some other version that's better?

/pisslam/ has an Arabic general, this would be a good place to pool resources. Maybe give it a sticky

It’s about the best you can get, it has a ton of notes

French and Spanish.

The NKJV is really good, and if you want a super literal translation, then use YLT which doesn't even change verb tenses.

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That sounds like a good idea. We've needed one of these.

Here's the most literal translation I could give of the Lord's prayer that makes sense:

I guess modern society deems hardship and evil to be the same thing.

I guess so, but not every Greek word maps exactly onto a single word in English, there is semantic range so you have to interpret its meaning best you can. Here's the Greek I translated from Matthew 6:

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς, ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου,
ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου, γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου, ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς.
Τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον:
καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν, ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφήκαμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν:
καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ.

I should have translated that as "in the heavens." Oh well.

I'm going to try and translate the Vulgate as literally as possible.

Genesis 1
In the beginning God created space and land.
The land was vacant and empty and darkness was on the face of the abyss and the spirit of God moved on the water
And God let there be light and there was light.
And God saw the light was good and divided the light from the darkness.
God called the light day and the darkness night and together they made one day.
And God said let there be firmament in the middle and let it divide waters from waters.
And God created the firmament dividing the waters above from the waters below and it was so.

Noice. I should learn Latin when I have the time.

I hear Steve Anderson knows Koine Greek, too.

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Yes, his introduction videos are actually not to bad, they did give me a general sense of the overall language. He does go all
a few times during the lessons, but whatever, the videos are still helpful.

Temptation is better translated as trial or trialling. Debt is also probably more accurate than trespass.

Within the Greek and Syriac versions "evil" at the end seems to be in the determinate state rather than an abstract noun.

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/13326/deliver-us-from-evil-or-the-evil-one-help-from-the-semitists
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/13343/did-matthew-intend-evil-or-the-evil-one-in-the-lord-s-prayer

It should also be taken into account that the ancient languages like Aramaic, Greek, and Latin the word translated as evil is used as a general term for badness whereas "evil" today connotes a greater amount of malevolence although in earlier periods evil was used in a similar form as a general term for badness with cognates across all Germanic languages with the word "bad" possibly being a late loan from Old Norse.

wew lad! VERY obscure joke/comment
I'll allow it.


Not so obscure, pretty obvious and inyourface Zig Forums humour, really, but still, I'll pay that.

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As said, by no means am I perfect at this, but thank you for the information. I mostly learn my vocab from Greek lexicons which don't always give the best definitions.

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I'm literally trying to spread knowledge user. Please take advantage of the resources I've provided and learn. :)

Not a bad idea. If someone comes up with a good OP, it should be a sticky.

Here, I modified my translation:

1904/12 Patriarchal Text master race reporting in

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The possessives are better off translated as they are usually before the noun than trying make it resemble the Greek more closely by placing it after the noun and introducing the "of" preposition which itself is alien to the text.

Similar could be said of the "of our debts" and "those who are debtors against us".

Thank you friend, I think I am doing well overall, but there is still some room for improvement.

I know it might be best to know both, but should I start with Latin or Koine Greek? I lean more towards Latin since my main language is French.

The Latin Vulgate is a translation of the original Greek, so it's less "pure" than Greek.

Polish

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Ok, but I'll be able to read the Catholics theologians in the original language, that's why I want to know both ultimately

Serbian

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True.

I'm Vulgating again, this time with the beginning of Genesis 2

Genesis 2
Therefore, perfected are the space and land and all their hosts.
God rested on the seventh day from all the work he had made.
Thankful and holy is the seventh day for on that day God rested from all the work he had done and all he created.
This is the account of the creation of space and land and the day God made them.
And every young plant of the land was in the fields and before it all rose the grass rose up, for the Master God did not send rain on the ground and there was not man to cultivate it.
And the source of water went up and watered all the surfaces of the land.
And Master God formed man from the slime repository of the earth and breathed life into his nostrils and man became a living creature with a soul.

I hope to learn Greek better this year.

Are you a catholic by chance? Don't want to make a big deal of it, but your text and translation doesn't include the doxology, which is not in the western text:

Master God planted a pleasure paradise where he put man which he had created.
Out of the soil God grew all trees that were fair in appearance and the tree of life in the garden which was the tree of the science of good and evil.
And the water went out of the place of pleasure to water the garden and it divided into four heads
The name of the one Phiso is the name of the one that circles around the whole land of Evilat where there is gold.
And the gold of the land is good and it will be found with Lapiz Lazuli.
And the second river is Geon and it circles around all of Ethiopia.
And the third river is the Tigris which goes to the east towards Assyria. However, the fourth river is Euphrates.

This doxology is from Didache
The holy Fathers prior to S. Chrysostom, as Grotius observes, who have explained the Lord's prayer, never mention these words. — And not being found in Tertullian, S. Cyprian, S. Jerom, S. Ambrose, S. Augustine, &c.

Didache for near-Canon tbh. I really like it as sort of a summary of Christian ethics and behavior, and I love how they just call out abortion (modern Christians think we face something new, when we don't).

I was just curious what denom he was, given he didn't post the longer variant.
I know the argument, and with 97% of MSS containing the doxology(according to Pickering), I would rather retain it as original.

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I am Protestant Anglo-Catholic, I omitted the doxology because it does not appear in western manuscripts and is omitted from the Vulgate.

Ok makes sense, keep up the good work anyway.

Here's Genesis 1:1-7 from the Septuagint.

I am not saying that it's wrong (we use it in Mass after all). Just a correction of common mistake.
And as for abortion - Paul and John calls it out too, but it's somewhat less direct way. In Gal 5:20, Rev 9:2, Rev 9:21 and Rev 21:8 etc. "sorcery" is condemned but greek word is actually pharmakeia which include not only drug usage but also pharmaceutic abortion.

Considering that early Christians did not use it I beg to differ.

Ok

Greek looks to hard man… I don't have time to learn this… I wish I did though…

m.youtube.com/watch?v=aK10AOoLflc

In Aramaic the word for debt and sin was the same.

Thanks for the link

I just need to know English for my KJV

Strange, in the Greek (and I believe the original Hebrew) the word used for sin meant "missing the mark."

This is interesting because it means the original sin of choosing knowledge of good and evil meant deciding morality for yourself and choosing incorrectly, resulting in a life destined to be full of sin (which all atheists and many mainstream Christians have done.)

Original sin is putting our concept of right and wrong before God's, including choosing false idols like equality or money.

They may be equated in interpretation but they seem to be distinct terms.
In Greek there's opheilé (ὀφειλή) for debt which is translated with ܚܘܒܐ (ħwb') in Syriac. In both languages it refers to something owed and related words have a sense of ought.
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:973&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%

Sin on the other hand is what has been used to translate ἁμαρτάνω (hamartánō) and related terms which have a sense of offense, failure, wrongdoing, mistake etc. In the Peshitta it is translated with ܣܟܠ (skl) and ܚܛܐ (ħt').
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:2129&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%
dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:1010&font=Estrangelo Edessa&size=125%

The association is attributable to the use of sin in place of debt in the Lord's prayer in Luke.

I really want to learn Latin but don't know where to start and how to practice speaking it

I'm sure there are a lot of online resources and places where you can buy a book to help study. You should learn grammar of a language before you memorize a bunch of random vocab. See how nouns and adjectives work as well as verb conjugations and etc. After that, then start focusing on vocabulary. Happy learning friend.

I've heard the reverse having been said about learning any language.

With Latin you should learn the grammar and conjugation first. It has no individual words for "I" or "you", for example, so it's extremely dependent on the use of the correct conjugation.
Also the Latin used by the Catholic church is different from that used by the Romans, although not to an extreme degree.