Marian apparitions: why would Mary actually ask to pray to her? Isnt that a bit proud...

Marian apparitions: why would Mary actually ask to pray to her? Isnt that a bit proud? Wasnt Mary the most humble when she was on earth? That really makes me think many are fake

Attached: 0702axtiricon.jpg (600x838, 354.73K)

Because she can help you. This is the same as asking why God ask you to worship Him.

you don't pray to her, you ask her to pray for you, like you would ask a friend,. we've been over this a million times you dummies

Not against her intercession but just check what she supposedly says in her apparitions. She is basically saying she collects the prayers and sends them to God. What why doesn't she say address God himself What? She is suppose to be the highest gem of Christianity. That isn't humble at all.

*I mean she doesn't talk about normal prayer to Christ

Could someone post some examples of what she actually says in any of these visions?

Here is an example the same theme in prayer was in some of the mysteries of Fatima

Medjugorje Message, January 2, 2017
- Apparitions to Mirjana

“Dear children, My Son was the source of love and light when he spoke on earth to the people of all peoples. My apostles, follow His light. This is not easy. You must be little. You must make yourselves smaller than others; with the help of faith to be filled with His love. Not a single person on earth can experience a miraculous experience without faith. I am with you. I am making myself known to you by these comings, by these words; I desire to witness to you my love and motherly care. My children, do not waste time posing questions to which you never receive an answer. At the end of your journey on earth, the Heavenly Father will give them to you. Always know that God knows everything; God sees, God loves. My most beloved Son illuminates lives, dispels darkness; and my motherly love which carries me to you is inexpressible, mysterious but real. I am expressing my feelings to you: love, understanding and motherly benevolence. Of you, my apostles, I am asking for your roses of prayer which need to be acts of love. To my motherly heart these are the dearest prayers. I offer these to my Son who was born for your sake. He looks at you and hears you. We are always close to you. This is the love which calls, unites, converts, encourages and fulfills. Therefore, my apostles, always love one another and above all, love my Son. This is the only way to salvation, to eternal life. This is my dearest prayer which fills my heart with the most beautiful scent of roses. Pray, always pray for your shepherds that they may have the strength to be the light of my Son. Thank you. ”

So was the most humble so therefore so gets to be the most exalted.

She tells us in every apparition to pray, specifically and especially at Fatima, the Rosary. She is called the mediatrix of all graces and it is often a spiritual practice of the saints to recognize in humility the meagerness and poverty of their souls, and thus their prayers. So we give Mary our prayers, supplications and sufferings to purify and perfect them because, as Simeon prophecized, her heart would be pierced with a sword that hearts may be laid bare. So because of her absolute unity with Jesus, she suffered in an unspeakably close union with Him in His passion and death and because of this she can see the needs and states of souls as well. She is prayed to (in a form of hyperdulia which is not the same as worship, but hyperveneration because of her place in God's Kingdom as the Queen of Heaven and Earth) under the title of "Lady of Sorrows" for the truth in situations; for spiritual realities to be made known to the person. So, because of her ability to see the truth in matters and because of her indissoluble bond with her Divine Son Who Is our Lord Jesus Christ, we ask her for her prayers and intercessions and also that she might take our prayers before the Throne of God perfected and purified that they might be more pleasing and efficacious to Him. The saints have recognized their own inability to approach the Throne of God in a way that is as pure as the mother of God so they tell her their intentions and she goes and presents them before her Son, and He never denies her, just as at the Wedding of Cana.

I understand I've read theology that far. biut if she were humble would she in this manner advertise her ability and not her son?!

Medjugorie is a heretical and false apparition. The church never approved it, the local bishops except 1 all say its heretical. It preaches heresy like God doesn't care if you are Muslim and that religions are equally valid.

Thanks for clarifying that.
What about Fatima? The church doesn't require you to believe that I've been told

the church approved Fatima meaning you can believe in it but you are never required to believe in an apparition.

This seems like a somewhat confused answer. It implies that God''s help is conditional on our worship of him, which is not the case (i.e. Matt 5:45) and so by extension implies a direct relationship between our worship of God and the benefits of his direct action provided in direct reaction to our worship. This is false, 'benefits' of worship are not accrued on the model above, rather it's simply that it makes sense that we indirectly psychologically benefit from worshiping God (i.e. putting him front and centre of our lives, making him and our relationship to him the most important thing spect of our lives, attributing all the glory (which means weight) we can give to anything to him when he is the one, by his nature, deserving of the worship and glory. It's just common sense that because he's the best = mean we need to treat him like he's the best and the results that logically entails (glory, worship etc), considering its what we were designed for and any arrangement outside of the above isn't logical or common sensical (i.e. why would you give something other than God more glory or worship when that thing isn't as good as God? That's going against our design and is going to have serious consequences).

"Prayer of the righteous availeth much"
She was humble and is humble. But that does not mean that she will lie. In Heaven all will know their exact place in hierarchy and due their modesty they act accordingly.

But what if it was a counterfeit Mary that said these things? After all, a counterfeit Jesus showed up to Joseph Smith and told him many falsehoods. How do you discern what is truth?

"Test the Spirit". If you think that there is no much of investigation in those very delicate matters then I am only sorry that you have so poor esteam about Church.
Let's take two well know exemples of True and False appiration:

Okay, but did the spirit confess Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came in the flesh? Just because some spirit says something would happen actually happens doesn't make it a true spirit in and of itself: Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God. (1 John 4:1-2 DRA)

Regarding Fatima:
>Earlier, three children had reported seeing a Marian apparition beginning on May 13, 1917, and continued to see her on the 13th of subsequent months. One of the children, Lucia, was said to receive telepathic communications from the woman adding that Lucia never said the woman was the Virgin Mary, but just referred to her as a "lady" who came from the sky.
The "lady" told the children the event what is come to be known as the "Miracle of the Sun" would happen precisely at noon on October 13th, 1917 but the spirit didn't show up and was an hour late. When it does show up an hour late at 1 o'clock, the clouds clear up and witnesses describe some sort of dull metallic disk that spins on an axis in the sky and spews out color onto the crowd. I'm not doubting the Virgin Mary, but I do have a right to believe not every spirit and to try the spirits if they be of God and from what the facts and witnesses say, I don't believe a metallic disk is the Virgin Mary. Multiple witnesses, from believers to medical doctors on the scene report seeing a "dull, metallic disk."

Attached: Fatima_13_10_2017.png (700x325, 116.01K)

In Fatima it was said " My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God"
Thats not true is it?
Mans refuge is in his God's son through him we are lead to God.
This sounds like heresy to me. Why would Mary ever tell anyone to seek refuge in anyone but his son?

Yes. And many more things that are depostied in public revelation.
That's lie.

Two of the three seers died at a very young age right after their supernatural encounter. The remaining seer — Sister Lucia — was locked up by the Jesuits and given a hush order for the rest of her life. I say this because the so-called "secret revelations" were not initially reported by the children and were later promulgated by the Jesuits, so just saying "public depository" is not a reliable source of information. The current Pope Francis is a huge believer in Our Lady of the Fatima, so take that as you will.

In the Bible, anytime a "good guy" appears, it's always a mouth-to-mouth communication. An Angel of the Lord physically says with this mouth, "be of good cheer." Problem here is it documented as a telepathic communication and this is usually a tell-tale signature of a demonic entity.

Attached: fatima-800x463.jpg (800x463, 151.65K)

she can do that because it's a reward for her humility during her life on earth. She can do it because it was given to her by God as a reward. You don't need to keep "proving" your humility to God in the afterlife

you are forbidden from believing the truthfulness of any marian (or non-marian) apparitions if they are not recognized officially by the Church. If the Church recognizes them, you are still free to reject them, there is no obligation to believe in them; the Church simply gives you the authorization to believe in them, but you are not obligated to.

I don't really know where you get this "telepathic communication" stuff. Two of the three seers dying early doesn't mean anything, it was most likely just in the plans of God and you are seeing too much into it.
You just sound very biased about this. Read the transcripts of what our Lady of Fatima said and point out what you think is "heretical" or "demonic", otherwise stop wasting our time.

HANG ON A MINUTE
Only one person can make that claim

She chose to become a nun and withdraw from public life because her role was only that of a messenger, she didn't want to be a superstar or anything like that. She just did what God asked and then lived the fullness of the faith at the best of her capabilities; Catholicism isn't about building mega-churches like protestantism, it is about really experiencing the fullness of God in a life of prayer and self-sacrifice. There was no "shush order", anyone could take an appointment and meet her, with all the precautions necessary because she was a nun living in a convent and not a pop singer or anything like that.

Oh man can we stop having these fucking stupid Protestant threads all the damn time? This is like if Catholics posted every day about "how come protestants worship the Bible" or "don't protestants know that it's idolatry to baptize multiple times" or something. NO GOOD CHRISTIAN PRAYS TO MARY DIRECTLY FOR HER OWN SAKE

Attached: jesus vs historical revisionist.png (1422x1020, 1.82M)

Church and his Body?
Fot if you say that his Body (of which mary is archicon and "neck" of it) cannot then you are wrong.
Act 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Act 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.
Act 19:23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way.
Act 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Act 24:22 But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, “When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case.”

Attached: 044b3766b6402c6c2d95ca1ddaa5baa6c2ec779529711a5ddb068c288e4cbee3.jpg (800x800, 171.25K)

Because they are fake and a continued pattern from a confused theology. We can ask God directly, so why waste time playing telephone?

Attached: b5c0e56af1da5be1e6af22541d205aa6c5713204d89231a57d644f81043ab29d.gif (300x424, 2.56M)

I don't know where you're getting these ideas user, no one does this

Attached: 532932a07d8693a8c87c7fa25832eb4cf09576ad6e774c6e77f8daadd6d3884f.gif (500x330, 960.46K)

Because pagans liked having female deities, so the Catholics elevated Mary to demigod status to try to attract them.

by this logic you shouldn't ask your friends to pray for you

What can the dead do for me? Arguments of tradition are a waste of time, unless it's Enoch, Elijah, or Christ himself; it's kind of a crap shoot

Your living human friends in this realm =/= those on the other side.

Seriously, does this need to be explained to you?

When you commune with the dead, that is not an "ask" on the same level ask asking friends. That's a prayer. Praying to the dead is some voodoo hoodoo shit you better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Wasting whose time?
Can't there be discussion? at least in my position the telepathic thing (that is, non-verbal communication) comes from several experiences that turn bad in the old testament and some parts of the Quran

Except they aren't dead.

I'll concede that they aren't dead dead, but that doesn't mean you should commune with them. You might as well play with a ouija board or perform a seance ritual and open yourself up to demonic trickery.

God already gave you his phone number through Christ. Don't over complicate it for the sake of your feefees.

doesn’t matter what you think, intercessory prayer is in the Bible

either Christ offers eternal life or he doesn’t. make up your mind

But praying ON BEHALF of other people and praying TO other people are two very different things.

Nothing implies you should attempt to commune with others that have passed on.

Pray to God, pray to Jesus, or pray to God in the Name of Jesus.

All I'm saying is, look at all of the facts. The original documents state of a telepathic communication with a feminine spirit being wearing a skirt at knee-level, for example. The priest that originally transcribed this said this threw off a major red flag. That's not to mention the eyewitness accounts of a silvery flat disc spewing out what we today know as infrared radiation and symptoms of radiation burns. We may disagree on what's caused this phenomenon, but we can agree that it is real.